Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Lesley, Thanks for your comments (and encouragement to boot!) I don't mind, whatever it is all interesting and (most) is something to learn from! I admit to being in the dark about bringing up children (as I am barely an adult myself lol!) and I am full of admiration for anyone bringing up children 'normally' let alone in a veganish way... Regards, Nick Lesley Dove [Lesley] 08 October 2002 01:35 Re: misc ranting I think most aspiring vegans need some time to adjust, very few go from omni to vegan overnight, although it can be done, there is a lot to learn about hidden ingredients so it took me nearly three years vegetarian before I was vegan. It's great to hear that you are giving up meat. Sorry you came here right in the middle of a somewhat irrelevant discussion to your situation as an aspiring vegan just getting to know other vegans. We talk about all sorts here! The Vegan Society's Vegan Shopper is a good guide to vegan products, and might help as you transition, even if you are not going vegan overnight right now. Lesley , " Nick Abbott " <nabbott@p...> wrote: > Hi all, > > Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the ring.... > > I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the expression) i.e. > Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how things go. > > I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, milk - cows, > including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the same > level, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard (!) > > It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over them - on > one hand > > (a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and think " What a > bunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do " - well actually no I > didn't - more like " hmmmmmmmm " and then forget about it sort of thing. > However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to those who > posted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for campaigning (!) > > (b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know about the > things that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind?? > > I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and being > pushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. those in > the animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' to whom > the general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of all > knowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything about > what really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested interest > in ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from animals and > don't give two hoots. > > I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way out' and > worse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other 'normal' > people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg philosophy, we > grow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in our ears > and seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with yucky > burgers. > > Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a 'placid' > piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose, indeed > I had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat but > it is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality. > > Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies. > > Nick > > " Dance like no one's watching, > Love like you'll never be hurt, > Sing like no one's listening, > Live like it's heaven on earth. " – William Pukey ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 I think most aspiring vegans need some time to adjust, very few go from omni to vegan overnight, although it can be done, there is a lot to learn about hidden ingredients so it took me nearly three years vegetarian before I was vegan. It's great to hear that you are giving up meat. Sorry you came here right in the middle of a somewhat irrelevant discussion to your situation as an aspiring vegan just getting to know other vegans. We talk about all sorts here! The Vegan Society's Vegan Shopper is a good guide to vegan products, and might help as you transition, even if you are not going vegan overnight right now. Lesley , " Nick Abbott " <nabbott@p...> wrote: > Hi all, > > Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the ring.... > > I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the expression) i.e. > Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how things go. > > I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, milk - cows, > including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the same > level, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard (!) > > It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over them - on > one hand > > (a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and think " What a > bunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do " - well actually no I > didn't - more like " hmmmmmmmm " and then forget about it sort of thing. > However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to those who > posted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for campaigning (!) > > (b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know about the > things that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind?? > > I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and being > pushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. those in > the animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' to whom > the general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of all > knowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything about > what really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested interest > in ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from animals and > don't give two hoots. > > I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way out' and > worse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other 'normal' > people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg philosophy, we > grow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in our ears > and seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with yucky > burgers. > > Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a 'placid' > piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose, indeed > I had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat but > it is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality. > > Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies. > > Nick > > " Dance like no one's watching, > Love like you'll never be hurt, > Sing like no one's listening, > Live like it's heaven on earth. " – William Pukey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just train yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see meat on a plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods help . Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . being upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are not going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make sure you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing in the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for something If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother --some people do !--be more determined Nick Abbott [nabbott] 08 October 2002 00:25 misc rantingHi all,Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the ring....I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the expression) i.e.Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how things go.I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, milk - cows,including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the samelevel, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard (!)It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over them - onone hand(a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and think "What abunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do" - well actually no Ididn't - more like "hmmmmmmmm" and then forget about it sort of thing.However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to those whoposted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for campaigning (!)(b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know about thethings that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind??I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and beingpushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. those inthe animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' to whomthe general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of allknowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything aboutwhat really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested interestin ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from animals anddon't give two hoots.I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way out' andworse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other 'normal'people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg philosophy, wegrow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in our earsand seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with yuckyburgers.Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a 'placid'piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose, indeedI had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat butit is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality.Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies.Nick"Dance like no one's watching,Love like you'll never be hurt,Sing like no one's listening,Live like it's heaven on earth." – William Pukey~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 which is why we don't name our food after animals... (except chicken, duck and turkey, and fish ... damn the rule hardly fits...) Nick Abbott [nabbott]Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a 'placid'piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose, indeedI had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat butit is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 It's a looong time ago now, but the only thing I had trouble cutting out when I converted to vegan back in 1984 (after 7 years of being vegetarian) was cheese- the way I dealt with it was to say to myself that I wasn't going to eat any cheese today, and not to think about the next day, or maybe say to myself, " I'm not going to eat any cheese, or use any animal products today, but maybe I will tommorrow " . It took a bit of will power for the first few weeks, but soon became habit,m now I can't really understand why anybody finds animal products remotely attractive to eat. Graham , " Angie Wright " <angiewright@n...> wrote: > It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just train > yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see meat on a > plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods help . > Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . being > upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are not > going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc > Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make sure > you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing in > the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for something > If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother -- some > people do !--be more determined > > Angie > > > Nick Abbott [nabbott@p...] > 08 October 2002 00:25 > > misc ranting > > > Hi all, > > Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the ring.... > > I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the expression) > i.e. > Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how things go. > > I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, milk - > cows, > including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the same > level, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard (!) > > It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over them - > on > one hand > > (a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and think " What > a > bunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do " - well actually no I > didn't - more like " hmmmmmmmm " and then forget about it sort of thing. > However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to those > who > posted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for campaigning > (!) > > (b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know about > the > things that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind?? > > I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and being > pushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. those > in > the animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' to > whom > the general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of all > knowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything about > what really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested > interest > in ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from animals and > don't give two hoots. > > I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way out' and > worse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other > 'normal' > people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg philosophy, > we > grow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in our > ears > and seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with yucky > burgers. > > Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a > 'placid' > piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose, > indeed > I had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat > but > it is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality. > > Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies. > > Nick > > " Dance like no one's watching, > Love like you'll never be hurt, > Sing like no one's listening, > Live like it's heaven on earth. " – William Pukey > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 hmm ... just before i opened this I was picturing a man in a slaughterhouse holding a machete over a cow's carcass.. and then little Johnny sitting at the table with his knife poised over his little steak .... and the cow falling down over and over with its eyes crossing ... losing its balance ... its disease a knife developed by humans poised over humans and cows ... Angie Wright [angiewright] It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just train yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see meat on a plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods help . Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . being upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are not going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make sure you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing in the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for something If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother --some people do !--be more determined Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 people have different methods as to how they get rid of the old meat eating ways. Some do it immediately, others do it progressively. Non-the-less i have met people of both types who are very good vegans and i have met people of both types who have sold out. I reckon a good thing to do is to buy loads of vegan versions of things one used to eat before becoming a vegan. At first they will taste inferior, but soon your tastebuds will adapt to it and believe me the old meat dairy based version will give you the bouch. I strongly suggest 'celebration roast' I am buying one of them tonght mmmmmmmm Good luck with the progression to veganism, Muhammad Oliver Slay wrote: hmm ... just before i opened this I was picturing a man in a slaughterhouse holding a machete over a cow's carcass.. and then little Johnny sitting at the table with his knife poised over his little steak .... and the cow falling down over and over with its eyes crossing ... losing its balance ... its disease a knife developed by humans poised over humans and cows ... Angie Wright [angiewright] It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just train yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see meat on a plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods help . Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . being upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are not going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make sure you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing in the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for something If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother --some people do !--be more determined Angie~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 i turned vegan about the same time as you. i said to myself, if i could get soya milk and marg, then i'd do it. it was hard at first, cos there was such little to eat, my main thing was salad cream! dry slads were not fun! i didn't have too much of a problem with cheese as i only started eating it when i turned vegetarian (the year previous). the soya milk atthat time was, well, i'll just say terrible, it really did taste crap...........RAT........ It's a looong time ago now, but the only thing I had trouble cutting out when I converted to vegan back in 1984 (after 7 years of being vegetarian) was cheese- the way I dealt with it was to say to myself that I wasn't going to eat any cheese today, and not to think about the next day, or maybe say to myself, "I'm not going to eat any cheese, or use any animal products today, but maybe I will tommorrow". It took a bit of will power for the first few weeks, but soon became habit,m now I can't really understand why anybody finds animal products remotely attractive to eat.Graham, "Angie Wright" <angiewright@n...> wrote:> It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just train> yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see meat on a> plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods help .> Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . being> upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are not> going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc> Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make sure> you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing in> the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for something > If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother --some> people do !--be more determined> > Angie> > > Nick Abbott [nabbott@p...] > 08 October 2002 00:25> > misc ranting> > > Hi all,> > Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the ring....> > I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the expression)> i.e.> Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how things go.> > I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, milk -> cows,> including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the same> level, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard (!)> > It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over them -> on> one hand> > (a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and think "What> a> bunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do" - well actually no I> didn't - more like "hmmmmmmmm" and then forget about it sort of thing.> However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to those> who> posted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for campaigning> (!)> > (b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know about> the> things that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind??> > I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and being> pushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. those> in> the animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' to> whom> the general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of all> knowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything about> what really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested> interest> in ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from animals and> don't give two hoots.> > I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way out' and> worse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other> 'normal'> people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg philosophy,> we> grow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in our> ears> and seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with yucky> burgers.> > Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a> 'placid'> piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose,> indeed> I had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat> but> it is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality.> > Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies.> > Nick> > "Dance like no one's watching,> Love like you'll never be hurt,> Sing like no one's listening,> Live like it's heaven on earth." – William Pukey> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 graham, are you going to the crass collective gig on the 8th november? see you there?....RAT...... It's a looong time ago now, but the only thing I had trouble cutting out when I converted to vegan back in 1984 (after 7 years of being vegetarian) was cheese- the way I dealt with it was to say to myself that I wasn't going to eat any cheese today, and not to think about the next day, or maybe say to myself, "I'm not going to eat any cheese, or use any animal products today, but maybe I will tommorrow". It took a bit of will power for the first few weeks, but soon became habit,m now I can't really understand why anybody finds animal products remotely attractive to eat.Graham, "Angie Wright" <angiewright@n...> wrote:> It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just train> yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see meat on a> plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods help .> Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . being> upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are not> going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc> Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make sure> you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing in> the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for something > If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother --some> people do !--be more determined> > Angie> > > Nick Abbott [nabbott@p...] > 08 October 2002 00:25> > misc ranting> > > Hi all,> > Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the ring....> > I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the expression)> i.e.> Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how things go.> > I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, milk -> cows,> including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the same> level, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard (!)> > It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over them -> on> one hand> > (a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and think "What> a> bunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do" - well actually no I> didn't - more like "hmmmmmmmm" and then forget about it sort of thing.> However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to those> who> posted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for campaigning> (!)> > (b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know about> the> things that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind??> > I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and being> pushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. those> in> the animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' to> whom> the general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of all> knowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything about> what really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested> interest> in ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from animals and> don't give two hoots.> > I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way out' and> worse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other> 'normal'> people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg philosophy,> we> grow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in our> ears> and seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with yucky> burgers.> > Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a> 'placid'> piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose,> indeed> I had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat> but> it is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality.> > Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies.> > Nick> > "Dance like no one's watching,> Love like you'll never be hurt,> Sing like no one's listening,> Live like it's heaven on earth." – William Pukey> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 It took me several false starts before I became fully vegan, and cheese was definitely the hardest thing. But also soya milk wasn't as good then and curdled like mad in tea and coffee, which really put me off. The new fresh soya milks are fantastic - I can drink the Provamel one by the glassful, which I've never been able to do with soya milk before. The " Tofutti " brand " cheese " slices are very good, make a good cheese and pickle sandwich. Their " cream cheese " is also gorgeous. At 10:20 AM 10/9/2002 +0100, you wrote: > > i turned vegan about the same time as you. i said to myself, if i could > get soya milk and marg, then i'd do it. it was hard at first, cos there > was such little to eat, my main thing was salad cream! dry slads were not > fun! i didn't have too much of a problem with cheese as i only started > eating it when i turned vegetarian (the year previous). the soya milk > atthat time was, well, i'll just say terrible, it really did taste > crap...........RAT........ > >It's a looong time ago now, but the only thing I had trouble cutting >out when I converted to vegan back in 1984 (after 7 years of being >vegetarian) was cheese- the way I dealt with it was to say to myself >that I wasn't going to eat any cheese today, and not to think about >the next day, or maybe say to myself, " I'm not going to eat any >cheese, or use any animal products today, but maybe I will >tommorrow " . It took a bit of will power for the first few weeks, but >soon became habit,m now I can't really understand why anybody finds >animal products remotely attractive to eat. > >Graham > >, " Angie Wright " <angiewright@n...> wrote: > > It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just >train > > yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see >meat on a > > plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods >help . > > Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . >being > > upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are >not > > going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc > > Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make >sure > > you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing >in > > the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for >something > > If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother -- >some > > people do !--be more determined > > > > Angie > > > > > > Nick Abbott [nabbott@p...] > > 08 October 2002 00:25 > > > > misc ranting > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the >ring.... > > > > I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the >expression) > > i.e. > > Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how >things go. > > > > I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, >milk - > > cows, > > including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the >same > > level, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard >(!) > > > > It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over >them - > > on > > one hand > > > > (a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and >think " What > > a > > bunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do " - well actually >no I > > didn't - more like " hmmmmmmmm " and then forget about it sort of >thing. > > However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to >those > > who > > posted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for >campaigning > > (!) > > > > (b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know >about > > the > > things that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind?? > > > > I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and >being > > pushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. >those > > in > > the animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' >to > > whom > > the general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of all > > knowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything >about > > what really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested > > interest > > in ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from >animals and > > don't give two hoots. > > > > I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way >out' and > > worse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other > > 'normal' > > people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg >philosophy, > > we > > grow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in >our > > ears > > and seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with >yucky > > burgers. > > > > Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a > > 'placid' > > piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very >purpose, > > indeed > > I had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating >meat > > but > > it is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality. > > > > Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies. > > > > Nick > > > > " Dance like no one's watching, > > Love like you'll never be hurt, > > Sing like no one's listening, > > Live like it's heaven on earth. " – William Pukey > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 k@, Nice little rant there! IMO justified as not easy. Can we turn this into an interesting exercise - say favourite brand of (soya) milk? Mine is Oatley (for decadence) and the Provamel alpro unsweetened one (for suffering - only a little bit) Been meaning to get a veg marg (but the small Sainsburys in town is 'rubbish' - I'll have to have a sniff round the 3 health food shops that I am lucky enough to live near!) k@ [kittyveg]09 October 2002 10:20 Subject: RE: Re: misc ranting i turned vegan about the same time as you. i said to myself, if i could get soya milk and marg, then i'd do it. it was hard at first, cos there was such little to eat, my main thing was salad cream! dry slads were not fun! i didn't have too much of a problem with cheese as i only started eating it when i turned vegetarian (the year previous). the soya milk atthat time was, well, i'll just say terrible, it really did taste crap...........RAT........ It's a looong time ago now, but the only thing I had trouble cutting out when I converted to vegan back in 1984 (after 7 years of being vegetarian) was cheese- the way I dealt with it was to say to myself that I wasn't going to eat any cheese today, and not to think about the next day, or maybe say to myself, "I'm not going to eat any cheese, or use any animal products today, but maybe I will tommorrow". It took a bit of will power for the first few weeks, but soon became habit,m now I can't really understand why anybody finds animal products remotely attractive to eat.Graham, "Angie Wright" <angiewright@n...> wrote:> It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just train> yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see meat on a> plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods help .> Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . being> upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are not> going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc> Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make sure> you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing in> the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for something > If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother --some> people do !--be more determined> > Angie> > > Nick Abbott [nabbott@p...] > 08 October 2002 00:25> > misc ranting> > > Hi all,> > Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the ring....> > I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the expression)> i.e.> Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how things go.> > I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, milk -> cows,> including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the same> level, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard (!)> > It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over them -> on> one hand> > (a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and think "What> a> bunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do" - well actually no I> didn't - more like "hmmmmmmmm" and then forget about it sort of thing.> However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to those> who> posted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for campaigning> (!)> > (b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know about> the> things that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind??> > I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and being> pushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. those> in> the animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' to> whom> the general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of all> knowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything about> what really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested> interest> in ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from animals and> don't give two hoots.> > I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way out' and> worse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other> 'normal'> people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg philosophy,> we> grow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in our> ears> and seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with yucky> burgers.> > Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a> 'placid'> piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose,> indeed> I had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat> but> it is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality.> > Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies.> > Nick> > "Dance like no one's watching,> Love like you'll never be hurt,> Sing like no one's listening,> Live like it's heaven on earth." – William Pukey> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 When I went vegan cereals were out (unless with water ) so I don't have them very often now -perhaps for a snack later in the day . It was years before I discovered powdered soya milk !! I used to eat a packet of peanuts every day for protein (as a student I couldn't afford expensive nuts very often ). It was tough then . Easier now their are substitutes Nick Abbott [nabbott] 11 October 2002 01:07 Subject: RE: Re: misc rantingGraham,Amazing to think what you and others then went through turning vegan - hardenough now - not to mention the attitude of the masses!! But then you seemost people don't realise the implications of their 'bad habits' do they??!!not just the obvious - animal suffering - but also economic - the oft quotedstatistic....5 times more land is used to produce meat as grain (anyonecorrect me if I'm wrong - but there seems to be different figures floatinground?)ThanksNick --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release 03/10/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 families are a problem It is easier if you have left home --I changed just before going to uni . People will criticise you anyway They enjoy doing it they try to catch you out Being a veggie they will ask you What about suffering for battery eggs/milk production etc They ask vegans about soap/shoes etc then ask you what you feed your pets etc !!!! It can get tiresome Nick Abbott [nabbott] 11 October 2002 01:07 Subject: RE: misc ranting Angie, Very Good point! I will try and do that...although I forget which is which - bacon/pork (which I don't eat anyway) is easy but ham - that's pig too isn't it and beef is cow and chicken is chicken (!) I have bought a couple of books - namely "Silent ark" by Juliet Gellatley and "The Animal Welfare Handbook" - which hopefully I will get round to reading soon..... In theory I could quit eating meat etc now but in practise it brings up a lot of issues such as stress (from finding out what else to eat, learning new skills, having arguments with family, etc) when I get clued up on animal suffering, etc then I can come out with all guns blazing (however knowing me I will be a damp squid) - as some people have mentioned they took 3 or 7 years being vegan from vegetarian - I am neither yet. Cheers Nick Angie Wright [angiewright]08 October 2002 06:58 Subject: RE: misc ranting It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just train yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see meat on a plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods help . Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . being upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are not going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make sure you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing in the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for something If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother --some people do !--be more determined Nick Abbott [nabbott] 08 October 2002 00:25 misc rantingHi all,Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the ring....I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the expression) i.e.Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how things go.I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, milk - cows,including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the samelevel, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard (!)It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over them - onone hand(a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and think "What abunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do" - well actually no Ididn't - more like "hmmmmmmmm" and then forget about it sort of thing.However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to those whoposted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for campaigning (!)(b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know about thethings that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind??I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and beingpushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. those inthe animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' to whomthe general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of allknowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything aboutwhat really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested interestin ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from animals anddon't give two hoots.I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way out' andworse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other 'normal'people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg philosophy, wegrow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in our earsand seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with yuckyburgers.Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a 'placid'piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very purpose, indeedI had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating meat butit is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality.Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies.Nick"Dance like no one's watching,Love like you'll never be hurt,Sing like no one's listening,Live like it's heaven on earth." – William Pukey~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Hmm .. didn't send any attachments, not deliberately at least. Hope I don't have a virus -my Norton's up to date and picking up Bugbear infected emails. Remember to be very wary of any unexpected attachments. Tracy At 01:07 AM 10/11/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Tracey, > >Thanks for your input - I have tried 3 different soya milks and they are all >different (thankfully!) the 'Oatley' one is nice, although it is sweet, it >is yummy at the end, when it 'solidifies'! > >I couldn't open your attachments unfortunately (boo hoo!) anyone get to see >them? > >Nick > > >Tracy Hartley [mekn46] >09 October 2002 21:12 > >RE: Re: misc ranting > > >It took me several false starts before I became fully vegan, and cheese was >definitely the hardest thing. But also soya milk wasn't as good then and >curdled like mad in tea and coffee, which really put me off. > >The new fresh soya milks are fantastic - I can drink the Provamel one by >the glassful, which I've never been able to do with soya milk before. > >The " Tofutti " brand " cheese " slices are very good, make a good cheese and >pickle sandwich. Their " cream cheese " is also gorgeous. > > > > > >At 10:20 AM 10/9/2002 +0100, you wrote: > > > > i turned vegan about the same time as you. i said to myself, if i could > > get soya milk and marg, then i'd do it. it was hard at first, cos there > > was such little to eat, my main thing was salad cream! dry slads were not > > fun! i didn't have too much of a problem with cheese as i only started > > eating it when i turned vegetarian (the year previous). the soya milk > > atthat time was, well, i'll just say terrible, it really did taste > > crap...........RAT........ > > > >It's a looong time ago now, but the only thing I had trouble cutting > >out when I converted to vegan back in 1984 (after 7 years of being > >vegetarian) was cheese- the way I dealt with it was to say to myself > >that I wasn't going to eat any cheese today, and not to think about > >the next day, or maybe say to myself, " I'm not going to eat any > >cheese, or use any animal products today, but maybe I will > >tommorrow " . It took a bit of will power for the first few weeks, but > >soon became habit,m now I can't really understand why anybody finds > >animal products remotely attractive to eat. > > > >Graham > > > >, " Angie Wright " <angiewright@n...> wrote: > > > It is easy to make the connection Once it is in your mind . Just > >train > > > yourself to visualise the particular animal every time you see > >meat on a > > > plate. Stop calling it meat ,call it dead pig etc These methods > >help . > > > Also don't keep saying what you will do Do it , and do it now . > >being > > > upset about it doesn't help the animal you have to decide you are > >not > > > going to eat it TODAY Same applies to hens eggs/cow milk etc > > > Delaying makes it easier to delay .. Its not difficult , Just make > >sure > > > you have a stock of food in --so you don't get hungry with nothing > >in > > > the cupboard ,and get tempted to go to the closest shop for > >something > > > If you make mistakes ,don't use it as an excuse to not bother -- > >some > > > people do !--be more determined > > > > > > Angie > > > > > > > > > Nick Abbott [nabbott@p...] > > > 08 October 2002 00:25 > > > > > > misc ranting > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Just throwing some more items for possible discussion into the > >ring.... > > > > > > I have decided not to go 'cold turkey' (apologies for the > >expression) > > > i.e. > > > Vegan overnight but am going to cut out meat and then see how > >things go. > > > > > > I agree with the philosophy i.e. honey - bees, eggs - chickens, > >milk - > > > cows, > > > including wearing of leather/wool/silk, respecting animals on the > >same > > > level, blah blah but it is putting it into practise that is hard > >(!) > > > > > > It is hard because you see stalls with tortured animals all over > >them - > > > on > > > one hand > > > > > > (a) that repels Joe Public - indeed I used to pass them and > >think " What > > > a > > > bunch of weirdos, have they anything better to do " - well actually > >no I > > > didn't - more like " hmmmmmmmm " and then forget about it sort of > >thing. > > > However I am starting to read more into animal testing (thanks to > >those > > > who > > > posted info) and can see that there is a valid reason(s) for > >campaigning > > > (!) > > > > > > (b) on the other hand how are we going to let other people know > >about > > > the > > > things that go on behind closed doors/out of sight, out of mind?? > > > > > > I just hate this whole 'propaganda' thing going on constantly and > >being > > > pushed and encouraged by the 'big boys' of corporate greed (esp. > >those > > > in > > > the animal trade) and worse of all eminent doctors/'professionals' > >to > > > whom > > > the general public kowtow to and refer to them as the 'fount of all > > > knowledge' when in actualy fact a lot of them know hardly anything > >about > > > what really goes on. The sad fact is that many people have a vested > > > interest > > > in ensuring that we all obtain our protein and whatnot from > >animals and > > > don't give two hoots. > > > > > > I also hate the fact that vegans are often looked upon as 'way > >out' and > > > worse of all 'fanatics' when in actual fact maybe a lot of other > > > 'normal' > > > people are spoonfed with the usual crap i.e. meat and 2 veg > >philosophy, > > > we > > > grow up with our parents advice/admonishments/whatever ringing in > >our > > > ears > > > and seemingly everyone goes around stuffing themselves stupid with > >yucky > > > burgers. > > > > > > Lastly, I realise it is not easy to make the connection between a > > > 'placid' > > > piece of beef on a plate and a poor cow killed for that very > >purpose, > > > indeed > > > I had a vague unease that there was something 'wrong' about eating > >meat > > > but > > > it is soooo easy to get caught up in the 'popular' mentality. > > > > > > Oh dear looks like I have hogged the lines again - apologies. > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > " Dance like no one's watching, > > > Love like you'll never be hurt, > > > Sing like no one's listening, > > > Live like it's heaven on earth. " William Pukey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.