Chat update

October 23, 2002

Want to read something long and boring? Look below.

Quick and short version is that the java chat applet people have split from

the chat room people. This might cause problems connecting, or if you

registered a name it will have probably got lost and need re-registering.

That is if you are interested in chat? Please tell me if not so I can stop

the reminders being sent.

Michael

linkline split FAQ

linkline.webchat.org (also known as chat.planetz.net and irc.linkline.com)

is ending its relationship with the WebChat IRC network.

We feel that this change can help us to serve you better, but we need your

patience and cooperation to ensure a smooth transition.

General

What does this mean?

Formerly, joining linkLINE's IRC server connected you to WebChat, a chat

network run by WebMaster Inc. Recently, the administration has decided to

" split " linkLINE and WebChat into separate networks.

What's the difference?

linkLINE will be forming its own network. WebChat, which hosts most of the

network's 30,000 users, will continue on its own.

Why are the networks splitting?

A number of factors have led to the split. linkLINE feels that, by becoming

independent, it can better serve users.

I can't connect to irc.webchat.org

The network may be having connectivity issues. Please try again in a few

minutes.

Accessibility

How can I access linkLINE?

linkLINE will no longer be accessible via linkline.webchat.org. Use

irc.linkline.com or chat.planetz.net.

How can I access WebChat?

Use irc.webchat.org.

Java

I have a java applet from quickchat.org. What do I do?

Your applet will connect to linkLINE. You will have to reregister your

nickname and channel. See below.

I have a java applet from webmaster.com. What do I do?

Your applet will connect to WebChat. You do not need to reregister your

channel, and will no longer use linkLINE's server.

I have a java applet, but I'm not sure where it's from.

If your applet refers to chat.planetz.net or irc.linkline.com, your users

will be directed to linkLINE. If your applet points to anything related to

webchat.org or webmaster.com, your users will join WebChat.

I'm a java user. Will this affect me?

Please direct questions to the site's webmaster and refer him to this page.

Services

Will we have to reregister nicknames and channels?

Yes, we were unable to obtain services databases from WebChat; sorry.

What if someone registers my WebChat nick/channel?

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Please choose another nickname or channel to register, or wait until it

drops (21 days of no activity). Please see our re-registration guide.

Support

I have additional questions.

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October 24, 2002

I'd prefer reminders to continue to be sent (even though I usually forget!)

hopefully I will be able to chat at some point.......

Those of you who are going to the Vegan Society AGM - let us know how it

went??!

Bye for now,

Nick

Mavreela [nec.lists]

23 October 2002 23:09

; vegansuncensored

Chat update

That is if you are interested in chat? Please tell me if not so I can stop

the reminders being sent.

Michael

http://us.click./QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/PVjolB/TM

---~->

~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

---------------------------

Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

Un: send a blank message to -

October 27, 2002

It was pretty boring actually, the Vegan Festival is much better for a good lively gathering of vegans.

Food was nice though, from Cavanagh's Catering.

The social afterwards was not up to much in my opinion, some people were in the cookery demonstration after the AGM, but that seemed to go on for such a very long time, we were waiting in the hallway with the kids (too noisy and fidgety to take in the cookery demonstration) hoping for some people we knew to be around, but no-one appeared. I felt that as a family with young children we were totally left out of the social, although they had (reluctantly) put on the creche for the AGM, and one other family had used it. The council had their own meeting after the AGM, which I think was possibly what killed the social gathering a bit, because a lot of people who go to the AGM want to speak with council members afterwards, as it's the one time when it feels like they are accessible in person to the members, and that aspect was lost this year.

There was one particular new council member I wanted a chat with and because of their being tucked away in their meeting, it was not possible to see that person. For me it was all a bit of a damp squib, they advertised it as a social after the AGM and after the entertainment (a singer and then the cookery demonstration), and yet it all seemed quite dead and a lot of people had left early, so we left with me feeling a bit on the low side because it was my birthday, and I would have liked to have found it more fun and enjoyable.

The worst bit that upset me was that at one point we just looked in at the back door of the cookery demonstration, to see if there was anyone in particular we knew there who we wanted to see, and the woman running the cookery demonstration snapped at us for the kids being noisy, and we were only looking in to see if she had finished, we also thought she had finished as she asked if we wanted to come in for food tasting. I thought she was very rude indeed to tell us off after asking us in. It was not our intention to disturb and we had intentionally stayed out of the room for ages already while she was addressing the group. I thought she was inviting us in because she had finished talking and it was time for the general chit-chat and socialising. This totally put me off sticking around and I think someone ought to have words with this woman for making a young family feel so hurt and left out! The general social aspect afterwards should have been a family-friendly occasion as it was only late afternoon/early evening, and if the Vegan Society want to attract "ordinary people" to veganism and encourage their involvement in the Society they need to have something for people like us, an ordinary family who happen to be vegans and raising our kids that way. We felt completely unwelcome, it was awful, some people need to try putting themselves in other people's shoes for a change.

Lesley

Nick Abbott [nabbott]25 October 2002 00:00 Subject: RE: Chat updateI'd prefer reminders to continue to be sent (even though I usually forget!)hopefully I will be able to chat at some point.......Those of you who are going to the Vegan Society AGM - let us know how itwent??!Bye for now,NickMavreela [nec.lists]23 October 2002 23:09 ; vegansuncensored Subject: Chat updateThat is if you are interested in chat? Please tell me if not so I can stopthe reminders being sent.Michaelhttp://us.click./QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/PVjolB/TM---~->~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

October 27, 2002

Lesley,

I'm sad to hear it didn't go very well for you....I wonder how many other members felt the same?

Thank you very much for writing about it - I would hope that the Vegan Soc will take it on board (?)

I am concerned that the council members seemed intent on having their own meeting and not being accessible to people who may have wanted to ask questions and/or enquire about being members of the society. The AGM is a very public event and so it is vital that they consider what people may want to do, etc.

>>>>If the Vegan Society want to attract "ordinary people" to veganism and encourage their involvement in the Society..............exactly - people want to feel involved and 'part of it'.

Happy belated birthday greetings (I hope the rest of your day went swimmingly??!)

Regards

Nick

Lesley Dove [Lesley]27 October 2002 19:54 Subject: RE: Chat update

It was pretty boring actually, the Vegan Festival is much better for a good lively gathering of vegans.

Food was nice though, from Cavanagh's Catering.

October 27, 2002

It was probably just us who felt seriously left out as there was no-one else around with young children, so everyone else was able to attend the cookery demonstration if they wanted. The other family had left right after the AGM, they didn't want to stay for the social, but I personally would not have wanted to just go for the official business of the AGM if there was only that and nothing more! That is something I would find a great big bore!

One nice thing happened on the way home actually. You know I had invited a load of the vegan families to meet up with us at the social? Well I was feeling pretty low because none of them had turned up, but just a few streets away on the way back home as we were on our way to Euston station, we bumped into one of the other vegan mums we knew and her son, who were running very late and were on their way there to meet us. She had even remembered my birthday and gave me a lovely card and flower! We had almost missed them completely by leaving early, not sure if she ended up going, I told her there was still nice food there and some people might still be socialising

Hopefully some of the Vegan Soc council people are on this group (Vanessa maybe - who was one of the few people who did make us feel welcome).

Lesley

Nick Abbott [nabbott]27 October 2002 20:10 Subject: RE: Chat update

Lesley,

I'm sad to hear it didn't go very well for you....I wonder how many other members felt the same?

Thank you very much for writing about it - I would hope that the Vegan Soc will take it on board (?)

I am concerned that the council members seemed intent on having their own meeting and not being accessible to people who may have wanted to ask questions and/or enquire about being members of the society. The AGM is a very public event and so it is vital that they consider what people may want to do, etc.

>>>>If the Vegan Society want to attract "ordinary people" to veganism and encourage their involvement in the Society..............exactly - people want to feel involved and 'part of it'.

Happy belated birthday greetings (I hope the rest of your day went swimmingly??!)

Regards

Nick

Lesley Dove [Lesley]27 October 2002 19:54 Subject: RE: Chat update

It was pretty boring actually, the Vegan Festival is much better for a good lively gathering of vegans.

Food was nice though, from Cavanagh's Catering.

~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

October 28, 2002

Thanks for the "report " Lesley ,

I'm glad I didn';t bother to go now I hate cookery demos . If one had to like cooking to be a vegan I would never have got started .

Luckily for me I was a vegan for 2/3 years before finding myself anywhere where cooking was being demonstrated.

It bores me rigid , and also makes me feel inadequate in some way -------------as if I ought to want to do it

Lesley Dove [Lesley] 27 October 2002 19:54 Subject: RE: Chat update

It was pretty boring actually, the Vegan Festival is much better for a good lively gathering of vegans.

Food was nice though, from Cavanagh's Catering.

The social afterwards was not up to much in my opinion, some people were in the cookery demonstration after the AGM, but that seemed to go on for such a very long time, we were waiting in the hallway with the kids (too noisy and fidgety to take in the cookery demonstration) hoping for some people we knew to be around, but no-one appeared. I felt that as a family with young children we were totally left out of the social, although they had (reluctantly) put on the creche for the AGM, and one other family had used it. The council had their own meeting after the AGM, which I think was possibly what killed the social gathering a bit, because a lot of people who go to the AGM want to speak with council members afterwards, as it's the one time when it feels like they are accessible in person to the members, and that aspect was lost this year.

There was one particular new council member I wanted a chat with and because of their being tucked away in their meeting, it was not possible to see that person. For me it was all a bit of a damp squib, they advertised it as a social after the AGM and after the entertainment (a singer and then the cookery demonstration), and yet it all seemed quite dead and a lot of people had left early, so we left with me feeling a bit on the low side because it was my birthday, and I would have liked to have found it more fun and enjoyable.

The worst bit that upset me was that at one point we just looked in at the back door of the cookery demonstration, to see if there was anyone in particular we knew there who we wanted to see, and the woman running the cookery demonstration snapped at us for the kids being noisy, and we were only looking in to see if she had finished, we also thought she had finished as she asked if we wanted to come in for food tasting. I thought she was very rude indeed to tell us off after asking us in. It was not our intention to disturb and we had intentionally stayed out of the room for ages already while she was addressing the group. I thought she was inviting us in because she had finished talking and it was time for the general chit-chat and socialising. This totally put me off sticking around and I think someone ought to have words with this woman for making a young family feel so hurt and left out! The general social aspect afterwards should have been a family-friendly occasion as it was only late afternoon/early evening, and if the Vegan Society want to attract "ordinary people" to veganism and encourage their involvement in the Society they need to have something for people like us, an ordinary family who happen to be vegans and raising our kids that way. We felt completely unwelcome, it was awful, some people need to try putting themselves in other people's shoes for a change.

Lesley

Nick Abbott [nabbott]25 October 2002 00:00 Subject: RE: Chat updateI'd prefer reminders to continue to be sent (even though I usually forget!)hopefully I will be able to chat at some point.......Those of you who are going to the Vegan Society AGM - let us know how itwent??!Bye for now,NickMavreela [nec.lists]23 October 2002 23:09 ; vegansuncensored Subject: Chat updateThat is if you are interested in chat? Please tell me if not so I can stopthe reminders being sent.Michaelhttp://us.click./QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/PVjolB/TM---~->~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

October 28, 2002

Wow, me too! Not much cooking orientated at all, although I make the occasional batch of cakes. Jonathan my son won't eat anything that requires a big effort anyway, he prefers the Vegetarians Choice burgers and McCain Mega Chips, Aurora likes pasta with sauce from a jar, eg Ragu, or baked beans, or spaghetti hoops and potato, vegan sausage, a bit of other veg sometimes too, and Paul just likes plain vegetables, it would be worth the effort if the kids would be keen try something exotic and appreciate it, but Jonathan in particular is such a creature of habit, it's hardly worth it. Aurora will occasionally try something new when we are out, she liked a fruit flan type thing that was being served by the caterers at the AGM, so maybe I will try to get the recipe if it's not a secret. Yes, sometimes as a vegan mum I feel inadequate, for not being clever with food, but being a domestic goddess is not possible for everyone (Nigella Lawson the animal eating domestic goddess no doubt has nannies for her kids so she can spend hours in the kitchen and not have to worry what they are up to). Anyway judging from the vegan AGM cookery woman's unwelcoming attitude, she probably never did have kids of her own anyway. Any reasonable vegan with social skills would be pleasant to a vegan family and ask the kids directly if they wanted to come and try anything of the food on offer, a reasonable person would try to engage their attention and focus them on what was happening, not just snap at them for being noisy as soon as they popped their heads round the door. A vegan cook would surely know what would be likely to appeal to kids and invite them to try that. Children are far less likely to be noisy and annoying if their presence is welcomed, and some effort made to include them in what is happening. We know that and it's so obvious really. Why are so many vegans so clueless in this aspect of normal human interaction? I think people who are so clueless when kids are around are a bit socially lacking and unfortunately that is most of the types who go to the AGM. I suppose I am weird because even when I had no kids of my own I was always quite happy to see vegan families at such gatherings, and would not have dreamed of doing anything that could make them feel excluded. The worst thing is that I remember the days when the Vegan Society was more family-friendly, when I helped one year at the AGM creche. I think there was a family called the Howletts who were at one time very involved in running the Society, Lis and Colin Howlett, and they had at least two kids, might have been 4 kids. The creche was more used in those days and no-one thought bad of people bringing their kids in those days, there was no unwelcoming attitude at all that I saw to the vegan families, and although there were obviously far fewer vegan families in the eighties, they were more likely to feel that the Vegan Society welcomed them and that they were part of the movement. I don't know what it was that changed, but the atmosphere was different, more friendly in those days with fewer of the conservative executive types, the "suits", who seem to dominate these days, and they definitely are not friendly and don't tend to like families around.

We should be working on beating Ronald McDonald at his own game, presenting veganism as fun and attractive to children and families. The fast food animal eating industry markets to mainstream families so very successfully, only by vegans doing the same will veganism become seen as a mainstream normal way of life. And this is what we want is it not, to convert those raising the next generation, because it will be effective in saving animals?

I'm so fearful that my kids will grow up bored and alienated with the whole vegan scene, when we go and stick out like a sore thumb because no-one wants a family around.

Does anyone know what happened to the Howletts and there was a vegan mum from Bristol, also very involved in Vegan Society at the time too, her name was Caryne Pearce. Haven't seen her or heard of her for years.

Lesley

Angie Wright [angiewright]28 October 2002 00:17 Subject: RE: Chat update

Thanks for the "report " Lesley ,

I'm glad I didn';t bother to go now I hate cookery demos . If one had to like cooking to be a vegan I would never have got started .

Luckily for me I was a vegan for 2/3 years before finding myself anywhere where cooking was being demonstrated.

It bores me rigid , and also makes me feel inadequate in some way -------------as if I ought to want to do it

Lesley Dove [Lesley] 27 October 2002 19:54 Subject: RE: Chat update

It was pretty boring actually, the Vegan Festival is much better for a good lively gathering of vegans.

Food was nice though, from Cavanagh's Catering.

The social afterwards was not up to much in my opinion, some people were in the cookery demonstration after the AGM, but that seemed to go on for such a very long time, we were waiting in the hallway with the kids (too noisy and fidgety to take in the cookery demonstration) hoping for some people we knew to be around, but no-one appeared. I felt that as a family with young children we were totally left out of the social, although they had (reluctantly) put on the creche for the AGM, and one other family had used it. The council had their own meeting after the AGM, which I think was possibly what killed the social gathering a bit, because a lot of people who go to the AGM want to speak with council members afterwards, as it's the one time when it feels like they are accessible in person to the members, and that aspect was lost this year.

There was one particular new council member I wanted a chat with and because of their being tucked away in their meeting, it was not possible to see that person. For me it was all a bit of a damp squib, they advertised it as a social after the AGM and after the entertainment (a singer and then the cookery demonstration), and yet it all seemed quite dead and a lot of people had left early, so we left with me feeling a bit on the low side because it was my birthday, and I would have liked to have found it more fun and enjoyable.

The worst bit that upset me was that at one point we just looked in at the back door of the cookery demonstration, to see if there was anyone in particular we knew there who we wanted to see, and the woman running the cookery demonstration snapped at us for the kids being noisy, and we were only looking in to see if she had finished, we also thought she had finished as she asked if we wanted to come in for food tasting. I thought she was very rude indeed to tell us off after asking us in. It was not our intention to disturb and we had intentionally stayed out of the room for ages already while she was addressing the group. I thought she was inviting us in because she had finished talking and it was time for the general chit-chat and socialising. This totally put me off sticking around and I think someone ought to have words with this woman for making a young family feel so hurt and left out! The general social aspect afterwards should have been a family-friendly occasion as it was only late afternoon/early evening, and if the Vegan Society want to attract "ordinary people" to veganism and encourage their involvement in the Society they need to have something for people like us, an ordinary family who happen to be vegans and raising our kids that way. We felt completely unwelcome, it was awful, some people need to try putting themselves in other people's shoes for a change.

Lesley

Nick Abbott [nabbott]25 October 2002 00:00 Subject: RE: Chat updateI'd prefer reminders to continue to be sent (even though I usually forget!)hopefully I will be able to chat at some point.......Those of you who are going to the Vegan Society AGM - let us know how itwent??!Bye for now,NickMavreela [nec.lists]23 October 2002 23:09 ; vegansuncensored Subject: Chat updateThat is if you are interested in chat? Please tell me if not so I can stopthe reminders being sent.Michaelhttp://us.click./QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/PVjolB/TM---~->~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

October 28, 2002

I don't worry about not being "good " at cooking . No animal cooks I am an animal so I don't see it as necessary that I cook . Cakes are bad for you and I am fat enough . If I cooked I'd be enormous !!!! Washing up is caused by cooking too !!! . Why make work . Seems daft to me

I agree with all you say about the vegan Soc. Kathleen Jannaway sticks in my mind as being a brilliant advocate for family veganism . I remember her summer garden parties in her large back garden full of people and many with kids. Every one was friendly and welcoming .

We have to watch out that the wierdo antisocial vegans don't take over . maybe they can't help it but they are not helping the cause if they drive people away . IMO they should have had any meetings prior to the social and the social should have got going before the cookery demo . You can't get to meet people ar a cookery demo and if bored, as I would be ,people will leave. By having the social first for say 30 min people will mix and only those who need it or with an interest will do the cookery thing. The rest will carry on socialising

Lesley Dove [Lesley] 28 October 2002 10:39 Subject: RE: Chat update

Wow, me too! Not much cooking orientated at all, although I make the occasional batch of cakes. Jonathan my son won't eat anything that requires a big effort anyway, he prefers the Vegetarians Choice burgers and McCain Mega Chips, Aurora likes pasta with sauce from a jar, eg Ragu, or baked beans, or spaghetti hoops and potato, vegan sausage, a bit of other veg sometimes too, and Paul just likes plain vegetables, it would be worth the effort if the kids would be keen try something exotic and appreciate it, but Jonathan in particular is such a creature of habit, it's hardly worth it. Aurora will occasionally try something new when we are out, she liked a fruit flan type thing that was being served by the caterers at the AGM, so maybe I will try to get the recipe if it's not a secret. Yes, sometimes as a vegan mum I feel inadequate, for not being clever with food, but being a domestic goddess is not possible for everyone (Nigella Lawson the animal eating domestic goddess no doubt has nannies for her kids so she can spend hours in the kitchen and not have to worry what they are up to). Anyway judging from the vegan AGM cookery woman's unwelcoming attitude, she probably never did have kids of her own anyway. Any reasonable vegan with social skills would be pleasant to a vegan family and ask the kids directly if they wanted to come and try anything of the food on offer, a reasonable person would try to engage their attention and focus them on what was happening, not just snap at them for being noisy as soon as they popped their heads round the door. A vegan cook would surely know what would be likely to appeal to kids and invite them to try that. Children are far less likely to be noisy and annoying if their presence is welcomed, and some effort made to include them in what is happening. We know that and it's so obvious really. Why are so many vegans so clueless in this aspect of normal human interaction? I think people who are so clueless when kids are around are a bit socially lacking and unfortunately that is most of the types who go to the AGM. I suppose I am weird because even when I had no kids of my own I was always quite happy to see vegan families at such gatherings, and would not have dreamed of doing anything that could make them feel excluded. The worst thing is that I remember the days when the Vegan Society was more family-friendly, when I helped one year at the AGM creche. I think there was a family called the Howletts who were at one time very involved in running the Society, Lis and Colin Howlett, and they had at least two kids, might have been 4 kids. The creche was more used in those days and no-one thought bad of people bringing their kids in those days, there was no unwelcoming attitude at all that I saw to the vegan families, and although there were obviously far fewer vegan families in the eighties, they were more likely to feel that the Vegan Society welcomed them and that they were part of the movement. I don't know what it was that changed, but the atmosphere was different, more friendly in those days with fewer of the conservative executive types, the "suits", who seem to dominate these days, and they definitely are not friendly and don't tend to like families around.

We should be working on beating Ronald McDonald at his own game, presenting veganism as fun and attractive to children and families. The fast food animal eating industry markets to mainstream families so very successfully, only by vegans doing the same will veganism become seen as a mainstream normal way of life. And this is what we want is it not, to convert those raising the next generation, because it will be effective in saving animals?

I'm so fearful that my kids will grow up bored and alienated with the whole vegan scene, when we go and stick out like a sore thumb because no-one wants a family around.

Does anyone know what happened to the Howletts and there was a vegan mum from Bristol, also very involved in Vegan Society at the time too, her name was Caryne Pearce. Haven't seen her or heard of her for years.

Lesley

Angie Wright [angiewright]28 October 2002 00:17 Subject: RE: Chat update

Thanks for the "report " Lesley ,

I'm glad I didn';t bother to go now I hate cookery demos . If one had to like cooking to be a vegan I would never have got started .

Luckily for me I was a vegan for 2/3 years before finding myself anywhere where cooking was being demonstrated.

It bores me rigid , and also makes me feel inadequate in some way -------------as if I ought to want to do it

Lesley Dove [Lesley] 27 October 2002 19:54 Subject: RE: Chat update

It was pretty boring actually, the Vegan Festival is much better for a good lively gathering of vegans.

Food was nice though, from Cavanagh's Catering.

The social afterwards was not up to much in my opinion, some people were in the cookery demonstration after the AGM, but that seemed to go on for such a very long time, we were waiting in the hallway with the kids (too noisy and fidgety to take in the cookery demonstration) hoping for some people we knew to be around, but no-one appeared. I felt that as a family with young children we were totally left out of the social, although they had (reluctantly) put on the creche for the AGM, and one other family had used it. The council had their own meeting after the AGM, which I think was possibly what killed the social gathering a bit, because a lot of people who go to the AGM want to speak with council members afterwards, as it's the one time when it feels like they are accessible in person to the members, and that aspect was lost this year.

There was one particular new council member I wanted a chat with and because of their being tucked away in their meeting, it was not possible to see that person. For me it was all a bit of a damp squib, they advertised it as a social after the AGM and after the entertainment (a singer and then the cookery demonstration), and yet it all seemed quite dead and a lot of people had left early, so we left with me feeling a bit on the low side because it was my birthday, and I would have liked to have found it more fun and enjoyable.

The worst bit that upset me was that at one point we just looked in at the back door of the cookery demonstration, to see if there was anyone in particular we knew there who we wanted to see, and the woman running the cookery demonstration snapped at us for the kids being noisy, and we were only looking in to see if she had finished, we also thought she had finished as she asked if we wanted to come in for food tasting. I thought she was very rude indeed to tell us off after asking us in. It was not our intention to disturb and we had intentionally stayed out of the room for ages already while she was addressing the group. I thought she was inviting us in because she had finished talking and it was time for the general chit-chat and socialising. This totally put me off sticking around and I think someone ought to have words with this woman for making a young family feel so hurt and left out! The general social aspect afterwards should have been a family-friendly occasion as it was only late afternoon/early evening, and if the Vegan Society want to attract "ordinary people" to veganism and encourage their involvement in the Society they need to have something for people like us, an ordinary family who happen to be vegans and raising our kids that way. We felt completely unwelcome, it was awful, some people need to try putting themselves in other people's shoes for a change.

Lesley

Nick Abbott [nabbott]25 October 2002 00:00 Subject: RE: Chat updateI'd prefer reminders to continue to be sent (even though I usually forget!)hopefully I will be able to chat at some point.......Those of you who are going to the Vegan Society AGM - let us know how itwent??!Bye for now,NickMavreela [nec.lists]23 October 2002 23:09 ; vegansuncensored Subject: Chat updateThat is if you are interested in chat? Please tell me if not so I can stopthe reminders being sent.Michaelhttp://us.click./QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/PVjolB/TM---~->~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

October 28, 2002

She has just been made an Honorary Patron, well-deserved I think, pity there are not more like her around.

Did she have kids of her own at all?

Lesley

Angie Wright [angiewright]28 October 2002 10:57 Subject: RE: Chat update