Guest guest Posted October 29, 2002 Report Share Posted October 29, 2002 I'm getting my faith in the Vegan Society seriously tested right now, as the CEO, in response to my complaint about that horrid snappy cookery demo woman, suggested that I should volunteer to organise an event following next year's AGM that will meet the criteria of being both family-friendly and all-inclusive. I don't mind giving it a try but I know I can't do it all on my own, is anyone in this group willing to help me? Actually on principle I think the VS should do it anyway but obviously from what the CEO has said it probably will not happen unless myself and other vegan families do it. As mostly non-parents, most of the council lack the motivation to make it a priority. But I know I'm not the only VS local contact person who is a parent, so we really should be able to come up with something for next years AGM social. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Passing the buck is a common practice . Usually asked of those who are already inundated .If you were organising you would not get much chance to socialise ! Playing music while people are having refreshments would be the simplest Kids could dance and adults talk . Having a person on a microphone (DJ) would be ideal but do you know any that come free? Lesley Dove [Lesley] 29 October 2002 23:56 Subject: Further to my bad AGM experienceI'm getting my faith in the Vegan Society seriously tested right now, as the CEO, in response to my complaint about that horrid snappy cookery demo woman, suggested that I should volunteer to organise an event following next year's AGM that will meet the criteria of being both family-friendly and all-inclusive.I don't mind giving it a try but I know I can't do it all on my own, is anyone in this group willing to help me?Actually on principle I think the VS should do it anyway but obviously from what the CEO has said it probably will not happen unless myself and other vegan families do it. As mostly non-parents, most of the council lack the motivation to make it a priority.But I know I'm not the only VS local contact person who is a parent, so we really should be able to come up with something for next years AGM social.Lesley~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 You are so right about passing the buck, they have staff and money, they could easily get something of a fairly simple social together. They can do it for non-parents after all! And for me with three kids, it is hard to organise very much. We are inundated with just coping with them but I know I am not happy without some veggie/vegan social life, so I already think I make a lot of effort for very little in return. I called and emailed lots of vegan families in London to ask them to meet at the social and make it more fun, only one turned up, or rather we met one vegan mum and her son as we were on the way to Euston going home after the telling off from the cookery woman, she was on her way there running very late! I get despondent though that none of the vegans locally (not even the other vegan mums who live quite near) ever just calls me to suggest to meet up and it's always me who makes the effort socially with other vegans, including the families. So I feel I am not valued back, does that make sense? If you want to make and keep like-minded friends it should work both ways, but everyone leaves it to me make all the effort! I've tried not doing much for months and keep hoping some of them will call me to see if they can help arrange something, but they don't! Not even a call to see how we are from most veggie/vegan people we have tried to be friends with! I'm not happy to have to put AR activism on hold, I feel really guilty about it all the time, but I'm determined that this is only until Lucy is in school, and that I will do a bit more when she is 5 and even more when she is a teenager. Currently, because of the needs we have, I have to prioritise vegan families and mutual social support issues. When the kids are older I intend to continue supporting vegan families and do some AR as well. I could make enquiries about vegan DJ's though, great idea! Lesley Angie Wright [angiewright]30 October 2002 06:46 Subject: RE: Further to my bad AGM experience Passing the buck is a common practice . Usually asked of those who are already inundated .If you were organising you would not get much chance to socialise ! Playing music while people are having refreshments would be the simplest Kids could dance and adults talk . Having a person on a microphone (DJ) would be ideal but do you know any that come free? Lesley Dove [Lesley] 29 October 2002 23:56 Subject: Further to my bad AGM experienceI'm getting my faith in the Vegan Society seriously tested right now, as the CEO, in response to my complaint about that horrid snappy cookery demo woman, suggested that I should volunteer to organise an event following next year's AGM that will meet the criteria of being both family-friendly and all-inclusive.I don't mind giving it a try but I know I can't do it all on my own, is anyone in this group willing to help me?Actually on principle I think the VS should do it anyway but obviously from what the CEO has said it probably will not happen unless myself and other vegan families do it. As mostly non-parents, most of the council lack the motivation to make it a priority.But I know I'm not the only VS local contact person who is a parent, so we really should be able to come up with something for next years AGM social.Lesley~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Don't feel guilty . Those who do less do not feel guilty.It should be up th the vegan Soc employees to do something . They get paid --unless they are inundated with work ? Lesley Dove [Lesley] 30 October 2002 11:14 Subject: RE: Further to my bad AGM experience You are so right about passing the buck, they have staff and money, they could easily get something of a fairly simple social together. They can do it for non-parents after all! And for me with three kids, it is hard to organise very much. So I feel I am not valued back, does that make sense? If you want to make and keep like-minded friends it should work both ways, but everyone leaves it to me make all the effort! I'm not happy to have to put AR activism on hold, Currently, because of the needs we have, I have to prioritise vegan families and mutual social support issues. When the kids are older I intend to continue supporting vegan families and do some AR as well. I could make enquiries about vegan DJ's though, great idea! Lesley --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release 03/10/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 I think they do work very hard actually and are not too well-paid either, but I've asked Rick, the CEO, if he will put something in the mag about asking people to contact me if they can help with arranging something family-friendly and all-inclusive for the next AGM social. I think he passed the buck to me because he is a bit clueless in the area of being family-friendly! I don't know how good the staff are in this way but at least one of them is a parent (Tony Weston), so he should have some kind of a clue! I will have to be really cheeky and start asking people to volunteer their time and skills. Off to check out Vegan Village for ideas, I think there may be some kids' entertainers listed there. Lesley Angie Wright [angiewright]30 October 2002 13:07 Subject: RE: Further to my bad AGM experience Don't feel guilty . Those who do less do not feel guilty.It should be up th the vegan Soc employees to do something . They get paid --unless they are inundated with work ? Lesley Dove [Lesley] 30 October 2002 11:14 Subject: RE: Further to my bad AGM experience You are so right about passing the buck, they have staff and money, they could easily get something of a fairly simple social together. They can do it for non-parents after all! And for me with three kids, it is hard to organise very much. So I feel I am not valued back, does that make sense? If you want to make and keep like-minded friends it should work both ways, but everyone leaves it to me make all the effort! I'm not happy to have to put AR activism on hold, Currently, because of the needs we have, I have to prioritise vegan families and mutual social support issues. When the kids are older I intend to continue supporting vegan families and do some AR as well. I could make enquiries about vegan DJ's though, great idea! Lesley ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 , " Angie Wright " <angiewright@n...> wrote: > Don't feel guilty . Those who do less do not feel guilty.It should be up > th the vegan Soc employees to do something . They get paid --unless they > are inundated with work ? > > Angie With respect, I don't believe that it is the Vegan Society's remit to use donations and subs to provide entertainment at their AGM. " Family friendly " is one thing - spending charitable donations on vegan DJs and childrens' entertainers is quite another, particularly as Lesley's seem to be virtually the only children attending. I appreciate that it could be argued that more children would be there if something was laid on for them, but it could be a very expensive exercise finding out that this is not in fact the case. Cathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 I know of one who is good I'll Check out her name as I've forgotten it . Trouble is she lives in Nottm \Angie Lesley Dove [Lesley] 30 October 2002 13:32 Subject: RE: Further to my bad AGM experience I will have to be really cheeky and start asking people to volunteer their time and skills. Off to check out Vegan Village for ideas, I think there may be some kids' entertainers listed there. Lesley --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release 03/10/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 People go to places if they enjoy it . If they don't they won't bother Being vegan shouldn't be about being bored and boring . They put on cookery demos tho'!!! cathyjupp [cj] 30 October 2002 16:36 Subject: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience, "Angie Wright" <angiewright@n...> wrote:> Don't feel guilty . Those who do less do not feel guilty.It should be up> th the vegan Soc employees to do something . They get paid --unless they> are inundated with work ?> > AngieWith respect, I don't believe that it is the Vegan Society's remit to use donations and subs to provide entertainment at their AGM. "Family friendly" is one thing - spending charitable donations on vegan DJs and childrens' entertainers is quite another, particularly as Lesley's seem to be virtually the only children attending. I appreciate that it could be argued that more children would be there if something was laid on for them, but it could be a very expensive exercise finding out that this is not in fact the case. Cathy~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Lesley, Sally's magic show --------------------------- she's moved to Lincs I notice They all seem to be North of Watford !!!! Lesley Dove [Lesley] 30 October 2002 13:32 Subject: RE: Further to my bad AGM experience I will have to be really cheeky and start asking people to volunteer their time and skills. Off to check out Vegan Village for ideas, I think there may be some kids' entertainers listed there. Lesley --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release 03/10/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Isn't an AGM a meeting in which an organization discusses what it has done in the past year, and what it is planning to do in the one coming, with debate on rules, policies, procedures, and ethics on the side, rather than a social event? If it is the desire of the members I can fully understand the idea of providing a creche so that parent who would not otherwise have been able to attend can do so, but it isn't an event for children or families, but adults. Maybe I'm just crazy. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 I understand your point about the proper use of money and am hoping to find some volunteers as regards entertaining, you never know I might have some luck as I have almost a year to look. I know one person who entertains with sing songs with his guitar but not sure of his reliability from past experience unfortunately. He has offered to be at vegan families get-togethers and let us down twice although the second time was not his fault. However if we could put on something with an EDUCATIONAL nature for children, which related to veganism, that would be entirely within the remit of the Vegan Society and would entirely justify the use of their money. It would have to be fun too though! I got this message from an American woman on another group and thought it was some of the best advice I've received. "I know that it is difficult for a group of people to sometimes except [sic] children at events. The same was true for the GLBT pride events. Now we have a whole section devoted to fun activities for children. What you need to do is find another set of parents such as yourself and design a little child fun to do, educational, Vegan program for little ones (a little craft, little stories about animals, a fun little snack the children can help make themselves). Then go to whoever heads up the organization. Offer to do the program for the little ones while the Vegan society is having thier own program. Hopefully what will happen is that everytime the Vegan society meets the children meet for thier own little fun. Then you can get other parents to help out so that you can enjoy the adult program. You have to be pushy. You have to be relentless. If you are not then nothing will change. Change only happens if you push for it. By offering to do the program yourself (little crafty things, little stories, making a little Vegan snack with the kids) you are trying to create the program that you think will be ideal for the little ones. Someone will be bound to carry it on. Lesley cathyjupp [cj]30 October 2002 16:36 Subject: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience, "Angie Wright" <angiewright@n...> wrote:> Don't feel guilty . Those who do less do not feel guilty.It should be up> th the vegan Soc employees to do something . They get paid --unless they> are inundated with work ?> > AngieWith respect, I don't believe that it is the Vegan Society's remit to use donations and subs to provide entertainment at their AGM. "Family friendly" is one thing - spending charitable donations on vegan DJs and childrens' entertainers is quite another, particularly as Lesley's seem to be virtually the only children attending. I appreciate that it could be argued that more children would be there if something was laid on for them, but it could be a very expensive exercise finding out that this is not in fact the case. Cathy~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 The cookery demo woman was a volunteer, albeit clearly not very child-friendly and probably never been a mum herself I would wager. I would be surprised if she had been a mum, because any mum who was a good vegan cook would surely use her talents automatically to include something that had been shown to appeal to kids, such as some sort of "cookies", and would especially invite any kids to try them! If she had been a mum she would have known how to firstly try talking to the kids in a pleasant way, saying hello and saying she had some snacks they might like, and gain their interest, not just immediately snapped at them for being noisy. Her attitude was that of a typical clueless NP (that's Lesley-speak for non-parent). If she has had kids she has forgotten how to behave towards them, clearly. Lesley Angie Wright [angiewright]30 October 2002 17:45 Subject: RE: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience People go to places if they enjoy it . If they don't they won't bother Being vegan shouldn't be about being bored and boring . They put on cookery demos tho'!!! cathyjupp [cj] 30 October 2002 16:36 Subject: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience, "Angie Wright" <angiewright@n...> wrote:> Don't feel guilty . Those who do less do not feel guilty.It should be up> th the vegan Soc employees to do something . They get paid --unless they> are inundated with work ?> > AngieWith respect, I don't believe that it is the Vegan Society's remit to use donations and subs to provide entertainment at their AGM. "Family friendly" is one thing - spending charitable donations on vegan DJs and childrens' entertainers is quite another, particularly as Lesley's seem to be virtually the only children attending. I appreciate that it could be argued that more children would be there if something was laid on for them, but it could be a very expensive exercise finding out that this is not in fact the case. Cathy~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 No you are not crazy, but there was an advertised social after the AGM and that is what the argument is about, the fact that it was a total damp squib, especially for us with the kids. It's important to make such an event fun and light-hearted to balance the formal business side of things that has gone before. Lesley , Mavreela <nec.lists@m...> wrote: > Isn't an AGM a meeting in which an organization discusses what it has done > in the past year, and what it is planning to do in the one coming, with > debate on rules, policies, procedures, and ethics on the side, rather than > a social event? > > If it is the desire of the members I can fully understand the idea of > providing a creche so that parent who would not otherwise have been able to > attend can do so, but it isn't an event for children or families, but adults. > > Maybe I'm just crazy. > > Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 No, I agree Michael. This is exactly what I thought an AGM was all about too - to discuss the Vegan Society's past year and future year, and not run an entertainment centre for children and spend much needed money unnecessarily. Janey Isn't an AGM a meeting in which an organization discusses what it has done in the past year, and what it is planning to do in the one coming, with debate on rules, policies, procedures, and ethics on the side, rather than a social event?If it is the desire of the members I can fully understand the idea of providing a creche so that parent who would not otherwise have been able to attend can do so, but it isn't an event for children or families, but adults.Maybe I'm just crazy.Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 But what else does the Vegan Society really do to make their ordinary members feel they are part of something real? The social after the AGM is very important for a lot of people, including ourselves, and many vegans go who who might have to wait a long time, often all year without meeting other vegans! Maybe you would not need the social side but many do appreciate it, and anyway it can virtually all be run with volunteers, people can make their own fun just as other people do when they hold parties! Even the creche used to be volunteer run in past years, which was not costing the society at all. If they ran several other real life events through the year, including something for vegan families, then I might be more likely to agree with you, that the social was not necessary, but they don't, so I have to disagree with you. The National Vegan Festival is run quite independently of the VS, mostly by Robin Lane and probably many people don't know that. I'm not sure how much if any funding the Vegan Soc give him to help fund it, but IMO if they do it is more than deserving of it. The better the social afterwards, the more people will attend the AGM, the truth is that they have to offer the members a metaphorical carrot to get them to join in, because most people find AGMs boring. The attendance was down this year, but it has been better attended other years when there have been some really good discussion groups arranged for afterwards, including a vegan parents one one year, or a proper disco party as in 1994 when it was the VS' 50th birthday. Lesley Janey [janey]30 October 2002 19:31 Subject: Re: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience No, I agree Michael. This is exactly what I thought an AGM was all about too - to discuss the Vegan Society's past year and future year, and not run an entertainment centre for children and spend much needed money unnecessarily. Janey Isn't an AGM a meeting in which an organization discusses what it has done in the past year, and what it is planning to do in the one coming, with debate on rules, policies, procedures, and ethics on the side, rather than a social event?If it is the desire of the members I can fully understand the idea of providing a creche so that parent who would not otherwise have been able to attend can do so, but it isn't an event for children or families, but adults.Maybe I'm just crazy.Michael~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Just noticed that this thread is now on three vegan e-groups (, and Veggiebrits) that I to, Lesley! I don't mind reading the same subject three times if you feel that discussing it on one list isn't enough for you, and I like you as a person, but its the constant negativity that runs as a theme in all of your posts that eventually gets me down. Its a shame that you didn't enjoy the AGM much, but only a few weeks ago you had the option to go to the National Vegan Festival but went to an animal sanctuary instead. I would expect the NVF would have been much more up your street. I enjoyed it anyway. Janey I'm getting my faith in the Vegan Society seriously tested right now, as the CEO, in response to my complaint about that horrid snappy cookery demo woman, suggested that I should volunteer to organise an event following next year's AGM that will meet the criteria of being both family-friendly and all-inclusive.I don't mind giving it a try but I know I can't do it all on my own, is anyone in this group willing to help me?Actually on principle I think the VS should do it anyway but obviously from what the CEO has said it probably will not happen unless myself and other vegan families do it. As mostly non-parents, most of the council lack the motivation to make it a priority.But I know I'm not the only VS local contact person who is a parent, so we really should be able to come up with something for next years AGM social.Lesley~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 These things aren't set in stone . When so few people attend (unless things have changed !) and an effort is being made to accommodate kids, it just seems sensible to me to tag a social on the end before the long (for some ) journey back Cooking demos are not the norm either Mavreela [nec.lists] 30 October 2002 18:17 Subject: Re: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience Isn't an AGM a meeting in which an organization discusses what it has done in the past year, and what it is planning to do in the one coming, with debate on rules, policies, procedures, and ethics on the side, rather than a social event? ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 But as Lesley said ,a social was mentioned in various adverts Janey [janey] 30 October 2002 19:31 Subject: Re: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience No, I agree Michael. This is exactly what I thought an AGM was all about too - to discuss the Vegan Society's past year and future year, and not run an entertainment centre for children and spend much needed money unnecessarily. Janey --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release 03/10/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Let me explain about the NVF day and the reasons for our choice that day not to spend long there (even though I don't think I should have to justify myself to anyone on this). We did go to the NVF actually for a short time in the morning before the animal sanctuary, and the situation that day was that we had already invited the vegan families to meet up for a day out at the sanctuary as it was their open day. We had invited them (many by snail mail which was harder to call off and would have required a mailout which I hadn't the time to do, and besides would look really bad to anyone who had planned to join us) long before we knew that it would clash with the NVF and could not exactly call it off chiefly because one lovely family in particular we knew from Essex said they would be going as it was quite near them. I definitely didn't have the heart to let them down by calling it off as the circumstances were that they had not been for ages to any of the vegan families gatherings as they had been through a tough time with one of their children being treated for leukaemia, so they did not like to come to central London events any more as they understandably tended to associate this with their visits to Gt Ormond St hospital for chemo. In the event we had a nice time although this other family did not show up. I was a little disappointed in them that they never emailed me afterwards to say what had happened, but they have their own concerns with a sick child so I can't really blame them and they probably did not even know that they were quite a big part of the reason we did not call it off. We were about an hour or so late so they might have even been and missed us anyway. I think their little boy is in remission now and hope to see them again sometime. My only mistake was to try to please other people too much that day, I suppose I put this other family's feelings before my own but Paul wanted to go to the animal sanctuary and the kids had a good time too, so on balance I think we did the right thing and this whole thing is so not relevant anyway to the way I was excluded from the AGM social. It is a total red herring, whatever I did as regards the NVF does not justify rudeness to my family. The NVF is great but too crowded and rather stressful to go around with the kids so we took turns going in and each of us taking turns with staying with them in the square. We thought a less crowded gathering after the AGM would be far easier for us to feel relaxed and socialise at, that's all, because the kids could move about more too. I'm sorry to bring you down, that was not my intention, I just want to bounce a few ideas round for future AGM socials, with anyone who might want to make them more inclusive and friendly in the future. I don't see it as negativity to ask for support with my efforts, I see it as trying to make something positive happen. Lesley Janey [janey]30 October 2002 22:40 Subject: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience Just noticed that this thread is now on three vegan e-groups (, and Veggiebrits) that I to, Lesley! I don't mind reading the same subject three times if you feel that discussing it on one list isn't enough for you, and I like you as a person, but its the constant negativity that runs as a theme in all of your posts that eventually gets me down. Its a shame that you didn't enjoy the AGM much, but only a few weeks ago you had the option to go to the National Vegan Festival but went to an animal sanctuary instead. I would expect the NVF would have been much more up your street. I enjoyed it anyway. Janey I'm getting my faith in the Vegan Society seriously tested right now, as the CEO, in response to my complaint about that horrid snappy cookery demo woman, suggested that I should volunteer to organise an event following next year's AGM that will meet the criteria of being both family-friendly and all-inclusive.I don't mind giving it a try but I know I can't do it all on my own, is anyone in this group willing to help me?Actually on principle I think the VS should do it anyway but obviously from what the CEO has said it probably will not happen unless myself and other vegan families do it. As mostly non-parents, most of the council lack the motivation to make it a priority.But I know I'm not the only VS local contact person who is a parent, so we really should be able to come up with something for next years AGM social.Lesley~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 I agree with you Lesley . If they want people to go there has to be some fun element . Especially for those who will spend 4 + hours getting there Lesley Dove [Lesley] 30 October 2002 19:57 Subject: RE: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience But what else does the Vegan Society really do to make their ordinary members feel they are part of something real? The social after the AGM is very important for a lot of people, including ourselves, and many vegans go who who might have to wait a long time, often all year without meeting other vegans! Maybe you would not need the social side but many do appreciate it, The better the social afterwards, the more people will attend the AGM, the truth is that they have to offer the members a metaphorical carrot to get them to join in, because most people find AGMs boring. The attendance was down this year, but it has been better attended other years when there have been some really good discussion groups arranged for afterwards, including a vegan parents one one year, or a proper disco party as in 1994 when it was the VS' 50th birthday. Lesley Janey [janey]30 October 2002 19:31 Subject: Re: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience No, I agree Michael. This is exactly what I thought an AGM was all about too - to discuss the Vegan Society's past year and future year, and not run an entertainment centre for children and spend much needed money unnecessarily. Janey Isn't an AGM a meeting in which an organization discusses what it has done in the past year, and what it is planning to do in the one coming, with debate on rules, policies, procedures, and ethics on the side, rather than a social event?If it is the desire of the members I can fully understand the idea of providing a creche so that parent who would not otherwise have been able to attend can do so, but it isn't an event for children or families, but adults.Maybe I'm just crazy.Michael~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 Well, to attempt to stick my oar in - I think 'both sides' have a valid point. However you can't just have a 'stuffy' AGM, you need some social activity to compensate..As I said before children are the future (especially where Veganism is concerned) and if there aren't any child-friendly activities, then what's the point??!! Methinks that if you get children interested they are more likely to 'co-operate' with Veganism, also the other point I want to make is that if vegan singles see vegan children 'coping' well then wouldn't that lead to them being encouraged to bring their children up vegan too (which is where the social bit comes in too, a bit of networking, encouragement, etd). Finally, do people who attended the AGM think there was enough opportunity to ask questions, feel their views were being taken on board? I read that the Council members went off and had their own meeting and so weren't available to have discussions with other members who perhaps wanted to state their views. Nick <dusting himself down> I am encouraged to see that Lesley et al are actively thinking how to improve certain aspects of the AGM - if you moan and don't do anything then it will only be a source of entertainment - discussion is a good precursor to ACTION. These things aren't set in stone . When so few people attend (unless things have changed !) and an effort is being made to accommodate kids, it just seems sensible to me to tag a social on the end before the long (for some ) journey back Cooking demos are not the norm either Isn't an AGM a meeting in which an organization discusses what it has done in the past year, and what it is planning to do in the one coming, with debate on rules, policies, procedures, and ethics on the side, rather than a social event? ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 >No you are not crazy, but there was an advertised social after the >AGM and that is what the argument is about, the fact that it was a >total damp squib, especially for us with the kids. Is that an official event, or just something that a group of people organized (whether VS staff or members) simply because everyone was together at that time. If the later then nobody has any obligation to provide anything for anyone. Certainly as it is not a family event then there is no obligation to cater for families. If the former then such event would be advertised in it's own right and people can turn up for one, the other, or both as appropriate. In that case is it advertised as being a family event? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 >The better the social afterwards, the more people will attend the AGM, the >truth is that they have to offer the members a metaphorical carrot to get >them to join in, because most people find AGMs boring. People who need carrots are the people you do not want at an AGM. It's is a forum for interested people to get involved, not for people who couldn't care less and are just sitting around waiting for the side show. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 This was sent before I finished... >If the former then such event would be advertised in it's own right and >people can turn up for one, the other, or both as appropriate. In that >case is it advertised as being a family event? Any social event organized explicitly to compliment something not geared towards families would be itself not geared towards families either. I agree with the notion that the VS should make itself attractive to families, and be encouraging of them, and suggesting that they should do more in this area is fair enough. An AGM though is something very different and just because it has a low attendance does not mean it should be co-opted by people with their own agendas to turn it into something it is not. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 But a daytime "social" should ideally aim to be welcoming for all ages, as it was not a late evening do I would expect that it should be automatically family-friendly even if it is not chiefly family and child-orientated (I don't expect that much from them!), and entirely the norm that families are considered and warmly welcomed, as they are by so many organisations. I suspect it would be the norm in many parts of Europe. I've heard really good reports about the Green Party running creches at their conferences (but still not minding if children are in meetings if they don't want to be away from mum) and being very child-friendly at their socials, and their big animal rights event in London a few years ago was amazing, with lots for kids' stuff happening including a giant whale which you could go into, with a storyteller inside (anyone remember that?). What kind of an organisation which is seeking to educate the masses, and welcome supporters and converts, does not welcome families apart from an organisation which is specifically for non-parents. I believe they exist and of course they have every right to their own special group where they can avoid children, but these types have no right to take over the vegan social scene and push their not-so-hidden "Don't have kids and don't bring them here" agenda. I can understand in some AR circles why they have to concentrate on business and they think kids can be disruptive, that is why it is harder for young families to get involved while kids are very young, but as I see it the Vegan Society is more on the educational and social side and it is more appropriate and easy for them to be much more inclusive of young families. Where should we find a welcome within the vegan/AR scene, if not the Vegan Society? This should not even need to be up for debate, it amazes me that it is even a problem for the VS to be family-friendly with the one and only social gathering they run annually. Are parents and children some kind of tiny minority group now, and not worthy of fully equal consideration? That's funny, I thought most people, even many vegans, had children at some time in their lives, and many of the older members of the Society, such as Arthur Ling, Frieden Howard and Harry Mather are parents of grown-up children, and some have grandchildren, so it is hardly an oddity to be a vegan parent, even among the people there. Lesley Mavreela [nec.lists]31 October 2002 06:57 Subject: Re: Re: Further to my bad AGM experience>No you are not crazy, but there was an advertised social after the>AGM and that is what the argument is about, the fact that it was a>total damp squib, especially for us with the kids.Is that an official event, or just something that a group of people organized (whether VS staff or members) simply because everyone was together at that time. If the later then nobody has any obligation to provide anything for anyone. Certainly as it is not a family event then there is no obligation to cater for families. If the former then such event would be advertised in it's own right and people can turn up for one, the other, or both as appropriate. In that case is it advertised as being a family event?Michael~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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