Guest guest Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 hi all. As I'm new maybe I should refrain from wading in on a debate about which I have only so far followed the last few strands. But here goes...and I will relate it to cats eventually! I am not convinced that it is not natural for humans to eat meat (ok please don't all delete me at this stage, stay with me!). I know there are many conflicting arguments used by both sides re size of stomach etc. I think that maybe it is natural for humans to eat meat, after all birds eat worms for example. Of course having been vegetarian all my life I would never be able to eat meat (physically my body wouldn't accept it, and psychologically I am repulsed by the sight), but in principle if I were to, I would eat animals that I knew were humanely killed. I think that maybe it is natural to eat meat - in the (very) old days people killed their own food directly for immediate consumption - hopefully as quickly and painlessly as possible. Maybe the problem came with capitalism and mass production and all the accompanying welfare issues (profit before welfare)? I do not, on the other hand, think that it is natural for humans to eat dairy products. Cow's milk is for calves only. This may strike some of you as an odd mixture, as it does to some of my meat eating friends, one of whom thinks the other way round. Now to relate it all to cats, in a roundabout kind of way...Another view I have heard is something along the lines that no species should eat meat (so that would include cats), and that we humans, being the most powerful and influential and intelligent species, have the opportunity (and maybe responsibility) to somehow lead the way, eventually on an ideal planet no species would eat meat. This seems linked to the idea that humans are automatically the 'best' and so deserve to have power over every other living creature, and these other creatures are all there 'to serve a useful purpose' for humans eg ladybirds' 'purpose' in life we are told is to be helpful to gardeners by eating greenfly (or whatever it is). Since I do not agree with the whole idea of humans being the 'superior' species, I would not necessarily agree that we should force/encourage other species (i.e. our cats) to be vegetarian/vegan. That said, obviously your average cat food is involved in the whole inhumane slaughterhouse trade, so ideally cat should get out in the garden and catch his/her own meat. But, I am hypocritical, we feed our cat ordinary cans. We did try her on veggiecat once, and I'm sure many of you can guess what cat's reaction was!! I am not saying any of the above is set in stone in my mind, they are only thoughts. I have been doing a lot of thinking recently, and with no-one to share these thoughts with (until now!), so I may well be wrong or have contradicted myself somewhere, and am more than willing to adapt them and hear other people's opinions. I am still young, and ignorant - I have a lot to learn! best wishes Cath _______________ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1059 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Being young does not equate with being ignorant . Lots of older people talk rubbish ! I agree that humans can eat animals and even milk if they choose . I see it as one of dominance -bullying . You can eat what you like if the animal doesn't kill you first that includes human beings . Who decides what is ok ? Surely only society since it makes the rules Rape is not allowed Why not ? It depends on whether one considers the victim . Does it suffer ? Do we care .? Society protects vulnerable people , and some animals , Farm /zoo/circus/laboratory/hunted animals are not protected or even allowed to live their natural lives unmolested . They are used (bullied ) Most vegans /AR people have taken the extra step to see animals as individuals with their own needs which should be respected So if we can't be their " friend " and share things ,we leave them alone , only coming to their aid if in need ---just as we would do with people People who don't fpllow this basic rule (re_ people are gaoled . Unfortuneately society hasn't caught up with vegans so animals still suffer and we have to fight for them and are regarded negatively by the bullies who make money out of them It all depends on your view . I would in theory eat anything once it has died naturally -I would not take a life unless the creature was in pain and wished to die (I might have to make that judgement ! )unless I was at risk ,but once it was dead I would see nothing wrong with eating it /using parts etc . I might not be allowed to of course but to me once someone is dead that is it . I don't see the point in complicated funerals etc I see that as waste of money I also cannot see why people need to visit graves and put dying flowers on them (don't agree with killing flowers either -unnecessary death ) But we all have our own views I am not convinced that it is not natural for humans to eat meat (ok please don't all delete me at this stage, stay with me!). I know there are many conflicting arguments used by both sides re size of stomach etc. I think that maybe it is natural for humans to eat meat, after all birds eat worms for example. Of course having been vegetarian all my life I would never be able to eat meat (physically my body wouldn't accept it, and psychologically I am repulsed by the sight), but in principle if I were to, I would eat animals that I knew were humanely killed. I think that maybe it is natural to eat meat - in the (very) old days people killed their own food directly for immediate consumption - hopefully as quickly and painlessly as possible. Maybe the problem came with capitalism and mass production and all the accompanying welfare issues (profit before welfare)? I do not, on the other hand, think that it is natural for humans to eat dairy products. Cow's milk is for calves only. This may strike some of you as an odd mixture, as it does to some of my meat eating friends, one of whom thinks the other way round. I am still young, and ignorant - I have a lot to learn! best wishes Cath _______________ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1 059 ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Thought I'd through some of my thoughts into the ring here... 1. I have this hypothesis that people can actively be involved in evolution of ourselves...that is, we can choose to become herbivores, and that could be an evolution in itself over time...it may be artificial selection versus natural, but maybe at some point evolution is voluntary in some ways...I don't know...just an hypothesis. 2. Funerals, etc. are for the living, not for the dead in many ways...a way to say good bye and to grieve...I myself do not believe in being buried in a box that doesn't decompose and has so many chemical treatments like today's coffins...bad for the environment and cemetaries take up too much space that could be left natural. Ok...so that's a bit off the subject. I don't kill flowers either...I prefer to get plants as gifts that can live w/ me for a long time rather than dead flowers... Shawna Quoting Angie Wright <angiewright: > > Being young does not equate with being ignorant . Lots of older people > talk rubbish ! > I agree that humans can eat animals and even milk if they choose . I see > it as one of dominance -bullying . > You can eat what you like if the animal doesn't kill you first that > includes human beings . Who decides what is ok ? > > Surely only society since it makes the rules Rape is not allowed Why > not ? > It depends on whether one considers the victim . Does it suffer ? Do we > care .? Society protects vulnerable people , and some animals , > Farm /zoo/circus/laboratory/hunted animals are not protected or even > allowed to live their natural lives unmolested . They are used (bullied > ) > Most vegans /AR people have taken the extra step to see animals as > individuals with their own needs which should be respected So if we > can't be their " friend " and share things ,we leave them alone , only > coming to their aid if in need ---just as we would do with people > > People who don't fpllow this basic rule (re_ people are gaoled . > Unfortuneately society hasn't caught up with vegans so animals still > suffer and we have to fight for them and are regarded negatively by the > bullies who make money out of them > > It all depends on your view . I would in theory eat anything once it has > died naturally -I would not take a life unless the creature was in pain > and wished to die (I might have to make that judgement ! )unless I was > at risk ,but once it was dead I would see nothing wrong with eating it > /using parts etc . I might not be allowed to of course but to me once > someone is dead that is it . I don't see the point in complicated > funerals etc I see that as waste of money I also cannot see why people > need to visit graves and put dying flowers on them (don't agree with > killing flowers either -unnecessary death ) > But we all have our own views > > Angie > > > > I am not convinced that it is not natural for humans to eat meat (ok > please > don't all delete me at this stage, stay with me!). I know there are > many > conflicting arguments used by both sides re size of stomach etc. I > think > that maybe it is natural for humans to eat meat, after all birds eat > worms > for example. Of course having been vegetarian all my life I would never > be > able to eat meat (physically my body wouldn't accept it, and > psychologically > I am repulsed by the sight), but in principle if I were to, I would eat > animals that I knew were humanely killed. I think that maybe it is > natural > to eat meat - in the (very) old days people killed their own food > directly > for immediate consumption - hopefully as quickly and painlessly as > possible. > Maybe the problem came with capitalism and mass production and all the > > accompanying welfare issues (profit before welfare)? > > I do not, on the other hand, think that it is natural for humans to eat > dairy products. Cow's milk is for calves only. This may strike some of > you > as an odd mixture, as it does to some of my meat eating friends, one of > whom > thinks the other way round. > > I am still young, and ignorant - I have a lot > to learn! > best wishes > Cath > > > _______________ > Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1 > 059 > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Now I prefer burial Burning pollutes the air Burial provides food for small soil organisms . Wooden coffins will decompose fairly quickly I would have thought . ,or are they treated in some way to delay this process? 2. Funerals, etc. are for the living, not for the dead in many ways...a way to say good bye and to grieve...I myself do not believe in being buried in a box that doesn't decompose and has so many chemical treatments like today's coffins...bad for the environment and cemetaries take up too much space that could be left natural. Ok...so that's a bit off the subject. Shawna > > > --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 I think because they use such a high grade wood that is treated and stained and varnished in most coffins, it doesn't often happen the way it should...you can probably try to get the cheapest box possible, but even that would be treated, I would think... Quoting Angie Wright <angiewright: > Now I prefer burial Burning pollutes the air Burial provides food for > small soil organisms . Wooden coffins will decompose fairly quickly I > would have thought . ,or are they treated in some way to delay this > process? > > Angie > > > 2. Funerals, etc. are for the living, not for the dead in many ways...a > way to > say good bye and to grieve...I myself do not believe in being buried in > a box > that doesn't decompose and has so many chemical treatments like today's > coffins...bad for the environment and cemetaries take up too much space > that > could be left natural. Ok...so that's a bit off the subject. > > Shawna > > > > > > > > > --- > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003 > > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 I shall have to check it out thanks What a waste of trees !!!! It’s a pity onfo like that is not a known fact one shouldn't have to search for info when it is something we all have to be part off -for ourselves or relatives shawnam [shawnam] 26 March 2003 22:46 RE: Cats debate via other thoughts I think because they use such a high grade wood that is treated and stained and varnished in most coffins, it doesn't often happen the way it should...you can probably try to get the cheapest box possible, but even that would be treated, I would think... --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Hi Angie, I know there is such a thing as eco burials and eco funerals and I reckon the internet is the best place to start looking. You can get eco coffins whcih look like pods and are made of a sort of papier mache material so are fully biodegradable. Barry Horne was buried in an eco pod. I would rather be composted than anything else after my tissue, organs, etc. have been donated to be used instead of animal experiments... (I hope.) Angie Wright <angiewright wrote: I shall have to check it out thanks What a waste of trees !!!!It’s a pity onfo like that is not a known fact one shouldn't have tosearch for info when it is something we all have to be part off -forourselves or relatives Angieshawnam [shawnam] 26 March 2003 22:46 Subject: RE: Cats debate via other thoughtsI think because they use such a high grade wood that is treated andstained and varnished in most coffins, it doesn't often happen the way itshould...you can probably try to get the cheapest box possible, but even that would betreated, I would think...---Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 See: http://www.naturaldeath.org.uk/ Graham Lucas Graham_Lucas http://www.Fezheads.com, an Oasis in the Desert of the Web http://www.thetimberframe.co.uk .... I think because they use such a high grade wood that is treated and stained and varnished in most coffins, it doesn't often happen the way it should... _______________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile/mobilehotmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 They won't use your organs instead of animals . imo they will use both . I am writing in my will and will tell my next of kin , that they can use my body parts only if vivisection in UK has been banned , if not they get nothing Hi Angie, I know there is such a thing as eco burials and eco funerals and I reckon the internet is the best place to start looking. You can get eco coffins whcih look like pods and are made of a sort of papier mache material so are fully biodegradable. Barry Horne was buried in an eco pod. I would rather be composted than anything else after my tissue, organs, etc. have been donated to be used instead of animal experiments... (I hope.) --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Hiya Cath, Hows the deep thoughts coming? I am afraid that I do not entirely agree ( I AM NOT JUDGING), about humans killing animals for food, as archeology has uncovered a stage when humans eat only fruit/nuts /grains, but then deveoped onto acting like they owned the planet, until here we are with the sad state of afairs in Iraq. You are dead right about any animals milk being designed only for its offspring. I am glad that we seem to agree on the whole cat thing and you are a hypocrite too. I wish my cats would catch their own food, it would save me a lot of insults/moral judgement and not to mention money! Keep Smiling, the sun is out here in Wales, Peace , Love, and Happiness and a fury friend. > Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Right On Angie, Getting people to think about the tragic waste of resources is a good idea. Personally , if I tried to eat flesh I think that my body would reject it after not eating any for over 20 years. I think there are still a few vegans out there who have not approached the greening up of their lifestyle to encompass the enviroment as well as themselves. Anyone know of a good vegan handcream for gardeners hands? All The Best, Pete H > Being young does not equate with being ignorant . Lots of older people >talk rubbish ! >I agree that humans can eat animals and even milk if they choose . I see >it as one of dominance -bullying . >You can eat what you like if the animal doesn't kill you first that >includes human beings . Who decides what is ok ? > >Surely only society since it makes the rules Rape is not allowed Why >not ? >It depends on whether one considers the victim . Does it suffer ? Do we >care .? Society protects vulnerable people , and some animals , >Farm /zoo/circus/laboratory/hunted animals are not protected or even >allowed to live their natural lives unmolested . They are used (bullied >) >Most vegans /AR people have taken the extra step to see animals as >individuals with their own needs which should be respected So if we >can't be their " friend " and share things ,we leave them alone , only >coming to their aid if in need ---just as we would do with people > >People who don't fpllow this basic rule (re_ people are gaoled . >Unfortuneately society hasn't caught up with vegans so animals still >suffer and we have to fight for them and are regarded negatively by the >bullies who make money out of them > >It all depends on your view . I would in theory eat anything once it has >died naturally -I would not take a life unless the creature was in pain >and wished to die (I might have to make that judgement ! )unless I was >at risk ,but once it was dead I would see nothing wrong with eating it >/using parts etc . I might not be allowed to of course but to me once >someone is dead that is it . I don't see the point in complicated >funerals etc I see that as waste of money I also cannot see why people >need to visit graves and put dying flowers on them (don't agree with >killing flowers either -unnecessary death ) >But we all have our own views > >Angie > > > >I am not convinced that it is not natural for humans to eat meat (ok >please >don't all delete me at this stage, stay with me!). I know there are >many >conflicting arguments used by both sides re size of stomach etc. I >think >that maybe it is natural for humans to eat meat, after all birds eat >worms >for example. Of course having been vegetarian all my life I would never >be >able to eat meat (physically my body wouldn't accept it, and >psychologically >I am repulsed by the sight), but in principle if I were to, I would eat >animals that I knew were humanely killed. I think that maybe it is >natural >to eat meat - in the (very) old days people killed their own food >directly >for immediate consumption - hopefully as quickly and painlessly as >possible. > Maybe the problem came with capitalism and mass production and all the > >accompanying welfare issues (profit before welfare)? > >I do not, on the other hand, think that it is natural for humans to eat >dairy products. Cow's milk is for calves only. This may strike some of >you >as an odd mixture, as it does to some of my meat eating friends, one of >whom >thinks the other way round. > > I am still young, and ignorant - I have a lot >to learn! >best wishes >Cath > > >_______________ >Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out ><a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://join.msn.com/?page=feat\ ures/junkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1'>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/j\ unkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1</a> >059 > > > >~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, >there may be another side to the story you have not heard. >--------------------------- >Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> >Un: send a blank message to - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Shawna, Hi, I like your positive attitude, from small acorns etc, lets hope that all us vegans are starting to steer the race in the right direction, before we blow up the planet. I agree with you on the funeral front. Disposable coffins/ plant a tree in someones name, add something back and make it a positive contribution. Why would anyone want to kill flowers? when you can plant seed/plants instead? > Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 .....Another view I have heard is something along the lines that no species should eat meat .....This seems linked to the idea that humans are automatically the 'best' and so deserve to have power over every other living creature .....Since I do not agree with the whole idea of humans being the 'superior' species, I would not necessarily agree that we should force/encourage other species (i.e. our cats) to be vegetarian/vegan. .....That said, obviously your average cat food is involved in the whole inhumane slaughterhouse trade, so ideally cat should get out in the garden and catch his/her own meat best wishes Cath > Dear Cath The idea that other animal species (hawks, lions, sharks, spiders etc) should stop eating meat is stupid and anti-vegan because humans are free to choose to eat ethically, other species are not. But you are dead wrong to suggest that because the pet food industry is inhumane and disgusting it would be better for your cat to hunt for its meat in the garden -- predation by domestic and ferral cats in Britain is anti-ecological: if people need to keep these creatures they should feed them with the carcuses of domestic herbivores like sheep and horses that die peacefully and if you can't do that then you should not keep carnivorous pets. Far too many cats out there already! Edith Yes, I am a bitch thank you. _______________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 predation by domestic and ferral cats in Britain is > anti-ecological: if people need to keep these creatures they should feed > them with the carcuses of domestic herbivores like sheep and horses that die > peacefully and if you can't do that then you should not keep carnivorous > pets. > > Far too many cats out there already! > I wish the cats that visit my garden could be trained to eat their own shit. Then I would be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Rabbits do that apparently, eat their own poo. Is there nothing you can plant that is unpleasant to cats and might deter them (without harming them of course)? Lesley quercusrobur2002 [grahamburnett]30 March 2003 18:51 Subject: Re: Cats debate via other thoughtspredation by domestic and ferral cats in Britain is > anti-ecological: if people need to keep these creatures they should feed > them with the carcuses of domestic herbivores like sheep and horses that die > peacefully and if you can't do that then you should not keep carnivorous > pets.> > Far too many cats out there already!> I wish the cats that visit my garden could be trained to eat their own shit. Then I would be happy.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > > Rabbits do that apparently, eat their own poo. > Is there nothing you can plant that is unpleasant to cats and might deter > them (without harming them of course)? > Is there such a thing as a napalm bush?? (only joking of course...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Surely it should be the survival of the fittest , If cats are surviving then so be it . How is it anti ecological ? Who decides what is ecological Humans ? Are they biased in their own favour , Or are they looking at the planet from a neutral viewpoint ? Humans are surviving . We don't limit their increase in numbers Why are humans arrogant enough to limit the increase in other species .? It all depends on their usefulness I suppose Whales are useful if their numbers are on the increase . Cats are not useful in the same way slg edith [slgedith] 30 March 2003 17:32 Re: Cats debate via other thoughts But you are dead wrong to suggest that because the pet food industry is inhumane and disgusting it would be better for your cat to hunt for its meat in the garden -- predation by domestic and ferral cats in Britain is anti-ecological: if people need to keep these creatures they should feed them with the carcuses of domestic herbivores like sheep and horses that die peacefully and if you can't do that then you should not keep carnivorous pets. Far too many cats out there already! Edith Yes, I am a bitch thank you. _______________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 - " slg edith " <slgedith Sunday, March 30, 2003 5:31 PM Re: Cats debate via other thoughts Do not cats have the right to choose to eat what ever they want to! if they decide to eat a vegan meal that someones' given to them surly that's their choice. Simon > ....Another view I have heard is something along the lines that no species > should eat meat > ....This seems linked to the idea that humans are automatically the 'best' > and so deserve to have power over every other living creature > ....Since I do not agree with the whole idea of humans being the 'superior' > species, I would not necessarily agree that we should force/encourage other > species (i.e. our cats) to be vegetarian/vegan. > ....That said, obviously your average cat food is involved in the whole > inhumane slaughterhouse trade, so ideally cat should get out in the garden > and catch his/her own meat > best wishes > Cath > > > > Dear Cath > > The idea that other animal species (hawks, lions, sharks, spiders etc) > should stop eating meat is stupid and anti-vegan because humans are free to > choose to eat ethically, other species are not. > > But you are dead wrong to suggest that because the pet food industry is > inhumane and disgusting it would be better for your cat to hunt for its meat > in the garden -- predation by domestic and ferral cats in Britain is > anti-ecological: if people need to keep these creatures they should feed > them with the carcuses of domestic herbivores like sheep and horses that die > peacefully and if you can't do that then you should not keep carnivorous > pets. > > Far too many cats out there already! > > Edith > Yes, I am a bitch thank you. > > > > _______________ > Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Rabbits only eat it the 1st time it comes out (from what I've read), something they need to do. Don't know how they tell when it's the 2nd time but maybe we shouldn't think too much about it! OTOH, dogs eat all sorts of faeces and allegedly, horse shit (am I allowed to say that on this list?) is good for them. Viv Lesley Dove [Lesley]Sunday, March 30, 2003 8:30 PM Subject: RE: Re: Cats debate via other thoughts Rabbits do that apparently, eat their own poo. Is there nothing you can plant that is unpleasant to cats and might deter them (without harming them of course)? Lesley quercusrobur2002 [grahamburnett]30 March 2003 18:51 Subject: Re: Cats debate via other thoughtspredation by domestic and ferral cats in Britain is > anti-ecological: if people need to keep these creatures they should feed > them with the carcuses of domestic herbivores like sheep and horses that die > peacefully and if you can't do that then you should not keep carnivorous > pets.> > Far too many cats out there already!> I wish the cats that visit my garden could be trained to eat their own shit. Then I would be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 LOL, we really should rename this thread "Talking shit" Lesley Viv [vc27]30 March 2003 23:50 Subject: RE: Re: Cats debate via other thoughts Rabbits only eat it the 1st time it comes out (from what I've read), something they need to do. Don't know how they tell when it's the 2nd time but maybe we shouldn't think too much about it! OTOH, dogs eat all sorts of faeces and allegedly, horse shit (am I allowed to say that on this list?) is good for them. Viv Lesley Dove [Lesley]Sunday, March 30, 2003 8:30 PM Subject: RE: Re: Cats debate via other thoughts Rabbits do that apparently, eat their own poo. Is there nothing you can plant that is unpleasant to cats and might deter them (without harming them of course)? Lesley quercusrobur2002 [grahamburnett]30 March 2003 18:51 Subject: Re: Cats debate via other thoughtspredation by domestic and ferral cats in Britain is > anti-ecological: if people need to keep these creatures they should feed > them with the carcuses of domestic herbivores like sheep and horses that die > peacefully and if you can't do that then you should not keep carnivorous > pets.> > Far too many cats out there already!> I wish the cats that visit my garden could be trained to eat their own shit. Then I would be happy.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 > Surely it should be the survival of the fittest , If cats are surviving > then so be it . How is it anti ecological ? Who decides what is > ecological Humans ? I completely agree Angie. I remember once having great difficulty explaining to someone that if a species is dying out, and for reasons other than human created ones, then what right do we have to force its continuation, and they just couldn't understand the point. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 > Do not cats have the right to choose to eat what ever they want to! I think Simon has worked it out, finally! > if they > decide to eat a vegan meal that someones' given to them surly that's > their > choice. And if they decide not to then that is also their choice. Well done for finally accepting that simple fact. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 And if they decide not too ? Do not cats have the right to choose to eat what ever they want to! if they decide to eat a vegan meal that someones' given to them surly that's their choice. Simon --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Ist time its soft . 2nd time its hard Rabbits only eat it the 1st time it comes out (from what I've read), something they need to do. Don't know how they tell when it's the 2nd time but maybe we shouldn't think too much about it! OTOH, dogs eat all sorts of faeces and allegedly, horse shit (am I allowed to say that on this list?) is good for them. Viv --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 This is why I am not a conservationist -but people link it directly to AR and veganism Angie !!! I completely agree Angie. I remember once having great difficulty explaining to someone that if a species is dying out, and for reasons other than human created ones, then what right do we have to force its continuation, and they just couldn't understand the point. Michael --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release 27/01/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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