Guest guest Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 Why are you bitching at me here, if you defended me from a lifetime ban on the other list? I do not want you banned, but I think you are well out of order here bringing up this long past mistake of mine. It's old news and nothing bad came of it to Graham or anyone so why go on about it? I think everyone is bored and quite rightly uninterested in this so this will be my last response to you. I should not have to keep defending myself anyway. I've done nothing I feel any need to justify. I think you need to sort out some mental health problems and let this bee in your bonnet go. I suspect you would only defend me from a life ban because you want me back to keep picking on me there too, because you can get away with so much more on the other list and you are bored and peed off that you have nobody else you find easy to victimise. I certainly don't think you would defend me from a ban for my benefit, except on the issue of vegan groups being more accepting of parents and children. I'll give you that much, you were always pretty supportive on that! Lesley slg edith [slgedith]06 April 2003 22:34 Subject: RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts>I hope Michael when he returns will take action over some of your comments>LesleyLeslie just wants me banned so she can tell lies without being contradicted even though I defended her from a life-time ban on the *other* list...That is Leslie, who passed on personal details of a vegan anti-fascist on this list to a notorious *former* fascist and now she is trying to justify herself!Edith_______________Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1059~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 You would probably feel VERY sick, if not actually wheezy and breathless, if you smoked again after all that time as a non-smoker. You are probably more likely to be sensitive to the worst of the effects of cigarette smoke, maybe you would not be as sensitive as I am, but still your body will have changed in your reaction to it during those seven years. Once you kick the muck out of your body and it gets used to being clean of a strong drug, you are more likely to be sensitive to how bad it is if you are exposed again. You would probably wonder why you ever smoked! As you know I was constantly ill as a child from my mother smoking, got better when I got away from her. I was always sensitive to smoke poisoning but have become even more sensitive over the last few years, probably partly because I've taken so much good care to avoid it, so it bothers me a lot when I am exposed to it. I'm quite happy to keep well away from it though, I didn't have the choice as a child and it was horrible having to live like that. I take control now, my mother cannot ruin my health for me any more, although I am pretty sure my lungs still bear some long lasting damage. Why anyone would actually consider choosing to smoke after 7 years free of the slavery to such a horrible addiction I could never understand. It will most likely kill my mother because she is still addicted and won't even try to give up. I hate the tobacco companies, they are just evil. Hopefully Phillip Morris will go bankrupt from a current court case ruling against them because they have been ordered to pay a lot of money out and it will cost so much to appeal, that either way they will likely be bankrupted. You might think you are about to die, then smoke and then find out you are not about to die after all, so if you are still alive, why take the chance? Lesley cathyjupp [cj]06 April 2003 10:46 Subject: Re: Smoking debate via other thoughts , "simonpjones" <simonpjones@o...> wrote:> Ask smokers on this list or any smoker if they were condemned to death and> had about ten minutes to live what would be their last request.TWO cigarettes. I'd get through them both, too.And I haven't smoked for over seven years.I've always said that if the dread news comes then I'll take up smoking again. And cannabis. I'd probably eat too much, too. Might as well go out happy!Cathy~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 non-smoking vegans don't pay Social Services' wages as much as smoking drinking parents... (through huge taxes on cigarettes and alcohol) ... smoking and drinking is such a huge money-earner for the government it is understandable why they do not wish to actually stop people smoking outright... patches are merely a pharmaceutical marketing wet-dream ... they hardly work at all ... lots of people got rich from them and still do ... and they hardly ever work to stop people smoking... even if something 'should' be stopped ... if it earns the goverment money then any effort they take will be false fronts to doing nothing about it ... put another way ... anything this government is doing ... is not enough for a better world... and it's not really up to the government anyway ... they can't force anyone to do anything... as will be proved in the revolution (apparently...) Lesley Dove [Lesley] However the trouble with smoking in their homes is when they are parents who smoke around their children, there seems no easy answer to protecting children from smoke until the Social Services start tackling smoking parents instead of harrassing vegan parents and other alternative types they have a problem with. They tend to be intolerant of the wrong kind of parents! I agree with the NYC smoke ban in public places though. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 yes you are.... you are more than welcome... almost necessary slg edith [slgedith] Ok, I'm not welcome in the House of Low Ability...Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 innocent for killing all the animals through by starving them of meats? (round and round and round) simonpjones [simonpjones] In a last request I would protest innocence & promote veganism.Simon> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 i am in physical pain ... i choose not to smoke (now)... but i know that if i have one cigarette the pain goes for a while ... (with a spliff it goes for longer...) there are people out there who continue like that for their lives and they die or die of cancer or whatever ... but you tell me who is going to relieve their pain ? cos i've not met one NHS doctor who will give me any other diagnosis than 'normal' ... they don't care about physical muscular pain that their tests cannot test for ... i will be in pain ... and die in pain most likely (unless i finally find relief beforehand)... smoking or not... Lesley Dove [Lesley] I do not want anyone to die in pain, I would however prioritise the innocent victims of second-hand smoke for NHS help over those whose illness is self-inflicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 I hate smoke...but there are people I love who are smokers...it is an addiction...not just a " habit " ...I don't understand it or condone it (smoking)...but I would not condemn someone for it. As far as hospitals go, smoking near the entrance is often illegal because it wafts into the building when people enter and exit and gets into the ventilation systems and spreads throughout the hospital...at least in the US...not sure about where everyone else is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 I'm sorry Oliver I didn't know you had a painful undiagnosed condition. I am in favour of non-smokeable cannabis to be prescribed for such conditions as can be helped by it. I've always been against drug abuse but have never opposed cannabis therapeutics. I do believe it can help people if used responsibility. The government could do something about it if they chose to allow this while still making abuse of the drug illegal, they allow opiates as pain relief after all while making abuse illegal, so why not the same for cannabis? I've certainly never heard of tobacco smoking relieving pain, I suppose for a few people it might do that, but I should think it's rare. Smoky air causes me phlegm, coughing, wheezing and chest pain as well as a headache and sore throat, so I can't imagine it doing any good for pain. I hope you do find a doctor who can get to the bottom of the problem. I certainly believe you about the pain (I get fed up that people don't believe me about my breathing trouble). Many doctors are useless, for instance they did a reversibility test on me testing for asthma, and said that since my peak flow was not improved enough by the inhaler test, I was most likely not asthmatic. I was having a good day that day, so no wonder it could not improve my peak flow much, I'd not been near anyone smoking, and didn't have any breathing trouble before the test. So for me also diagnosis normal despite the fact that what I get from second-hand smoke does seem something rather like asthma. Lesley Oliver Slay [oliver]07 April 2003 15:09 Subject: RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts i am in physical pain ... i choose not to smoke (now)... but i know that if i have one cigarette the pain goes for a while ... (with a spliff it goes for longer...) there are people out there who continue like that for their lives and they die or die of cancer or whatever ... but you tell me who is going to relieve their pain ? cos i've not met one NHS doctor who will give me any other diagnosis than 'normal' ... they don't care about physical muscular pain that their tests cannot test for ... i will be in pain ... and die in pain most likely (unless i finally find relief beforehand)... smoking or not... Lesley Dove [Lesley] I do not want anyone to die in pain, I would however prioritise the innocent victims of second-hand smoke for NHS help over those whose illness is self-inflicted. ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Not all smokers are offensive prats, just the ones like my mum, possibly even your mum, and those at hospital entrances, those who smoke where it obviously upsets children or other non-smokers. Smokers who only smoke in the presence of other smokers or away from others, I've no problem with them really. I know you don't need anyone to stick up for you, but there are plenty of kids right now having to breathe their parents' smoke. Maybe you have simply forgotten how ghastly it was for you as a child having to breathe it? Most kids hate it, even if many of them become used to it as adults, the way you are because you are OK with pubs. Lesley Viv [vc27] 05 April 2003 21:24 RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts I don't smoke & have never smoked but I also stick up for these people you are calling offensive prats. I don't call them that, tho there are some on these lists I would. And it makes me feel so much better that you're sticking up for me as an ex-child of a smoker. Viv Lesley Dove [Lesley] Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:53 PM RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts Fortunately I am in the majority on this one. Most people hate cigarette smoke, even if non-smokers don't all get a severe reaction to it. Why are you sticking up for offensive prats? Are you one? I'd rather stick up for the victims such as the children of smokers, who are abused by being forced to breathe it. Lesley Steve Welburn [] 05 April 2003 14:55 RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts > So why give smoking areas, when they could > just ban it on hospital grounds altogether. They could. But then they'd have a clump of smokers at the entrance. > We have to get tough on them. No *we* don't. You may want to, but don't try and speak for everyone else. Steve --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release 25/03/03 ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Never found cigarette smoke ghastly. And if you'd like to call my mum an offensive prat to my face, expect to end up in hospital. How fucking dare you call her names. You've never met her. You're the most offensive prat on this planet as far as I'm concerned. Now do us all a favour and fuck off and die. Viv Lesley Dove [Lesley] Monday, April 07, 2003 5:20 PM RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts Not all smokers are offensive prats, just the ones like my mum, possibly even your mum, and those at hospital entrances, those who smoke where it obviously upsets children or other non-smokers. Smokers who only smoke in the presence of other smokers or away from others, I've no problem with them really. I know you don't need anyone to stick up for you, but there are plenty of kids right now having to breathe their parents' smoke. Maybe you have simply forgotten how ghastly it was for you as a child having to breathe it? Most kids hate it, even if many of them become used to it as adults, the way you are because you are OK with pubs. Lesley --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release 25/03/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Nice...I'm really very proud to be a member of this group... Quoting Viv <vc27: > Never found cigarette smoke ghastly. And if you'd like to call my mum an > offensive prat to my face, expect to end up in hospital. How fucking dare > you call her names. You've never met her. You're the most offensive prat on > this planet as far as I'm concerned. Now do us all a favour and fuck off and > die. > > Viv > > > > Lesley Dove [Lesley] > Monday, April 07, 2003 5:20 PM > > RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts > > > > Not all smokers are offensive prats, just the ones like my mum, possibly > even your mum, and those at hospital entrances, those who smoke where it > obviously upsets children or other non-smokers. Smokers who only smoke in > the presence of other smokers or away from others, I've no problem with them > really. > I know you don't need anyone to stick up for you, but there are plenty of > kids right now having to breathe their parents' smoke. Maybe you have simply > forgotten how ghastly it was for you as a child having to breathe it? Most > kids hate it, even if many of them become used to it as adults, the way you > are because you are OK with pubs. > > Lesley > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release 25/03/03 > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 This is supposed to be the nice list! Now now Viv, the state you let yourself get into as well as the second hand smoke in the pub might just bring on a heart attack if you are not careful. As for telling me to die, it is more likely you will die before I do, because I avoid being near cigarette smoke while you go to smoky pubs, and I have the advantage of being a few years younger than you. I only said it was POSSIBLE your mum was/is an offensive prat, because for all I knew she might have been considerate enough to not smoke around you in the home. I was not assuming that she was as bad as my mum, not all smokers are as bad as she was. From your response it is clear that she probably was as selfish as my mum about her smoking habit, I mean you did not deny it that she forced you to breathe her smoke did you? If I ended up in hospital from your actions you would obviously end up on a criminal charge! How would that help you? Mess up your life a fair bit, ruin your reputation assuming you have any sort of good reputation, and possibly lose you your job, if your employers were to take a dim view of one of their employees being found guilty of assault. So think before threatening violence. Also it is possible that one day you might threaten the wrong person, someone who is not at all like me, be careful because with your temper you might threaten someone who would not hesitate in punching you first, and you would end up worse off. Then you would regret your threat. I think Michael will take a dim view of threats of violence anyway, so maybe you need to apologise. Be as tedious as Edith if you like, with her going over old ground, that's just boring and irritating, but you and your threats are well out of order. I wouldn't want to see Edith banned, she did not threaten violence, just tried to annoy me, but as far as I'm concerned and hopefully Michael will agree, you just crossed the line. I never threatened violence even on the nasty list, and I never would have done. I always thought that was going too far. I especially would not want to be so nasty to another vegan anyway. I was banned because someone possibly felt their safety threatened because of one of my possibly badly thought out actions (they didn't feel threatened with violence from me personally). I didn ot even purposely make anyone feel afraid! The case for banning you is more clear cut, I have been threatened and feel threatened by you and will call for your expulsion from the group unless you apologise and take it back, admit that people have the right to express their view without risking a beating, even expressing a view of your mum for smoking in your face as a kid. Weird that you hate me because I am concerned that your mum harmed you, but then many abused kids go along with their abusers because they don't know any better. You are an adult now, you should know better and be able to see your mum's actions for what they were, that is cruel and abusive, even though you clearly forgive her, she still did wrong. This is also the nicer list and it's less likely that threats of violence would be tolerated. Calling your mum a nasty name is just words, it's just my opinion remember, and if she has chosen to smoke around non-smokers and children I maintain that she deserves and probably has been called a lot worse than " offensive prat " for the harm and offence she has caused to other people. Objecting to my views on her behaviour does not justify threats of violence. It's certainly not going to alter my opinion. I think most rational people would agree. It would not kill you to control your temper, get some anger management maybe? From the rules and guidelines: " Anyone who threatens another member, or acts in such a way which causes another member to feel threatened, will be removed from the list. " Lesley Viv [vc27] 07 April 2003 17:36 RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts Never found cigarette smoke ghastly. And if you'd like to call my mum an offensive prat to my face, expect to end up in hospital. How fucking dare you call her names. You've never met her. You're the most offensive prat on this planet as far as I'm concerned. Now do us all a favour and fuck off and die. Viv Lesley Dove [Lesley] Monday, April 07, 2003 5:20 PM RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts Not all smokers are offensive prats, just the ones like my mum, possibly even your mum, and those at hospital entrances, those who smoke where it obviously upsets children or other non-smokers. Smokers who only smoke in the presence of other smokers or away from others, I've no problem with them really. I know you don't need anyone to stick up for you, but there are plenty of kids right now having to breathe their parents' smoke. Maybe you have simply forgotten how ghastly it was for you as a child having to breathe it? Most kids hate it, even if many of them become used to it as adults, the way you are because you are OK with pubs. Lesley --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release 25/03/03 ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Viv, what a horrible thing to say on Michael's best list! Be prepared for three life bans. Don't worry, I shall write to you now and then. Edith > " Viv " <vc27 > > >RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts >Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:36:16 +0100 > >Never found cigarette smoke ghastly. And if you'd like to call my mum an >offensive prat to my face, expect to end up in hospital. How fucking dare >you call her names. You've never met her. You're the most offensive prat on >this planet as far as I'm concerned. Now do us all a favour and fuck off >and >die. > >Viv > > > >Lesley Dove [Lesley] >Monday, April 07, 2003 5:20 PM > >RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts > > > >Not all smokers are offensive prats, just the ones like my mum, possibly >even your mum, and those at hospital entrances, those who smoke where it >obviously upsets children or other non-smokers. Smokers who only smoke in >the presence of other smokers or away from others, I've no problem with >them >really. >I know you don't need anyone to stick up for you, but there are plenty of >kids right now having to breathe their parents' smoke. Maybe you have >simply >forgotten how ghastly it was for you as a child having to breathe it? Most >kids hate it, even if many of them become used to it as adults, the way you >are because you are OK with pubs. > >Lesley > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release 25/03/03 > > > >~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, >there may be another side to the story you have not heard. >--------------------------- >Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> >Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 I gave up for 5 years before, then took to it again like a duck to water. My grandfather smoked from 14 to 92 - St Julien Blue, one of the strongest, and worked well into his 80s. My mother has also smoked since her teens - she is now 74, 75 in May and active as all get out. There are no hard and fast rules. You may be allergic, or it may be hysterical - who knows? But most people in my experience do not have the reactions you describle. They may not like it - fair enough, but I've never met anyone else claiming to be as sensitive a flower as you. I do recall my pleasure at smoking again - I think some people are just natural smokers. The main reason I don't want to take it up again is the fuss that people like you make. It's just not worth the hassle. I just can't be doing with the self-righteous shite (sorry Michael - this is my last unpleasant word on the subject on this list). My advice - next time you smell smoke in your building, keep the door shut. If you are that sensitive then surely this is the best plan. Ot could it be that a chance to whinge is more precious than the health you claim to be protecting? Cathy - going back to Vegans Uncensored with a sigh of relief. , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > You would probably feel VERY sick, if not actually wheezy and breathless, if > you smoked again after all that time as a non-smoker. You are probably more > likely to be sensitive to the worst of the effects of cigarette smoke, maybe > you would not be as sensitive as I am, but still your body will have changed > in your reaction to it during those seven years. Once you kick the muck out > of your body and it gets used to being clean of a strong drug, you are more > likely to be sensitive to how bad it is if you are exposed again. You would > probably wonder why you ever smoked! > > As you know I was constantly ill as a child from my mother smoking, got > better when I got away from her. I was always sensitive to smoke poisoning > but have become even more sensitive over the last few years, probably partly > because I've taken so much good care to avoid it, so it bothers me a lot > when I am exposed to it. I'm quite happy to keep well away from it though, I > didn't have the choice as a child and it was horrible having to live like > that. I take control now, my mother cannot ruin my health for me any more, > although I am pretty sure my lungs still bear some long lasting damage. Why > anyone would actually consider choosing to smoke after 7 years free of the > slavery to such a horrible addiction I could never understand. It will most > likely kill my mother because she is still addicted and won't even try to > give up. I hate the tobacco companies, they are just evil. Hopefully Phillip > Morris will go bankrupt from a current court case ruling against them > because they have been ordered to pay a lot of money out and it will cost so > much to appeal, that either way they will likely be bankrupted. > > You might think you are about to die, then smoke and then find out you are > not about to die after all, so if you are still alive, why take the chance? > > Lesley > > > cathyjupp [cj@r...] > 06 April 2003 10:46 > > Re: Smoking debate via other thoughts > > > , " simonpjones " <simonpjones@o...> > wrote: > > > Ask smokers on this list or any smoker if they were condemned to > death and > > had about ten minutes to live what would be their last request. > > > TWO cigarettes. I'd get through them both, too. > > And I haven't smoked for over seven years. > > I've always said that if the dread news comes then I'll take up > smoking again. And cannabis. I'd probably eat too much, too. Might > as well go out happy! > > Cathy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 - Oliver Slay Monday, April 07, 2003 3:00 PM RE: Re: Smoking debate via other thoughts innocent for killing all the animals through by starving them of meats? (round and round and round) simonpjones [simonpjones] Who put mine name to the below statement ? I didn't, who did? It's a good statement. Simon> In a last request I would protest innocence & promote veganism.Simon>~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 And you will make sure every one knows won't you edith ? Even criminals after being punished are given another chance . But its fun to pick on one person ,isn't it edith ? So lets keep doing it , to totally destroy her ,in the hope that she kills herself . Is that how it goes edith ? Angie ( Bored silly by ediths constant harping about the past ) slg edith [slgedith] 06 April 2003 22:34 RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts >I hope Michael when he returns will take action over some of your >comments Lesley Leslie just wants me banned so she can tell lies without being contradicted even though I defended her from a life-time ban on the *other* list... That is Leslie, who passed on personal details of a vegan anti-fascist on this list to a notorious *former* fascist and now she is trying to justify herself! Edith _______________ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1 059 ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 > " Lesley Dove " <Lesley >I wouldn't want to see Edith banned, she did not threaten violence, just >tried to annoy me, Untrue (again), I reminded the list and people who don't already know that Leslie's extreme reaction against smokers is part of a wider nastier agenda of intolerance that would totally ban IUD contraception, emergency contraception and abortion no matter how early even for rape victims, introduce *protective custody* to force women to term if *necessary* and raise the age of consent to at least 18! Edith _______________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Many of the US states have the age of consent set at 18, so it's not like that is an unusual view. Alcohol is not allowed until 18 because that is deemed a reasonable age to be considered adult, so why our age of consent is so low is hard for me to understand. Probably if it was higher there would be many who would break the law but that happens anyway and raising the age of consent it would certainly encourage some to wait until they were more mature, and reduce the number of abortions and the number of teenage mothers. The older you are the less likely you are to exercise bad judgement over who to have as a partner, hopefully. It would also protect the young from abusers up to a later age. I only care about protecting life, that is why I oppose abortion for the same reason I oppose animal killing for food. I believe in protecting children from getting hurt by ending up having abortions. A child is a person under 18. I think the law makers just pulled the number 16 out of a hat when they were deciding on an age of consent because it makes no sense at all. How grown up were you at 16, you don't even seem so grown up even now! Since when is protecting life, whether from abortion or second-hand smoke, part of a nasty agenda? Lesley slg edith [slgedith]08 April 2003 07:45 Subject: RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts>"Lesley Dove" <Lesley>I wouldn't want to see Edith banned, she did not threaten violence, just>tried to annoy me,Untrue (again), I reminded the list and people who don't already know that Leslie's extreme reaction against smokers is part of a wider nastier agenda of intolerance that would totally ban IUD contraception, emergency contraception and abortion no matter how early even for rape victims, introduce *protective custody* to force women to term if *necessary* and raise the age of consent to at least 18!Edith_______________Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 If anyone wants to know the truth of this (not that I think anyone is remotely interested..) they can email me directly. I can explain how I came to be emailing very briefly a former NF member and activist. I did not pass on anyone's personal details, that is a lie. I did however invite him onto the other list to defend himself against things that were being said about things he did many years ago. He never joined the list anyway. I felt he had the right to know what was being said and refute it and explain where he stood now if he chose to. He probably quite rightly thought it was not worth the bother because of bigots like Edith who cannot believe that people can change. Lesley slg edith [slgedith]06 April 2003 22:34 Subject: RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts>I hope Michael when he returns will take action over some of your comments>LesleyLeslie just wants me banned so she can tell lies without being contradicted even though I defended her from a life-time ban on the *other* list...That is Leslie, who passed on personal details of a vegan anti-fascist on this list to a notorious *former* fascist and now she is trying to justify herself!Edith_______________Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1059~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 So parents who smoked throughout the 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s and 80s anyone know the figures? cos you're bound to find that at least everyone you know has had either a smoking parent, a smoking grandparent or a smoking grandgrandparent... nearly every child in the developed world has breathed in smoke at some point in their childhood... or exhaust fumes which are probably far more toxic than cigarette smoke... and if that means that every single person around you has been exposed to this 'poison' (before birth - through their life) ..... which lives do you think you'll have been protecting? you'd protect more people from poisoning by sprinkling a large box of tyre bursting jacks into London's rush hour traffic around Westminster Bridge and Euston Road ... so long as everyone decided to switch off their engines in the end... Lesley Dove [Lesley] Since when is protecting life, whether from abortion or second-hand smoke, part of a nasty agenda? Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 It does depend how much you are exposed, my parents house is stinky with it all the time, in the walls and the curtains, not everyone who gets exposed gets the same amount and some of us are more sensitive than others. I can't change the past. I can speak up for today's kids though. Lesley Oliver Slay [oliver]08 April 2003 14:34 Subject: RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts So parents who smoked throughout the 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s and 80s anyone know the figures? cos you're bound to find that at least everyone you know has had either a smoking parent, a smoking grandparent or a smoking grandgrandparent... nearly every child in the developed world has breathed in smoke at some point in their childhood... or exhaust fumes which are probably far more toxic than cigarette smoke... and if that means that every single person around you has been exposed to this 'poison' (before birth - through their life) ..... which lives do you think you'll have been protecting? you'd protect more people from poisoning by sprinkling a large box of tyre bursting jacks into London's rush hour traffic around Westminster Bridge and Euston Road ... so long as everyone decided to switch off their engines in the end... Lesley Dove [Lesley] Since when is protecting life, whether from abortion or second-hand smoke, part of a nasty agenda? Lesley~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 I know some one who many years ago who had nf tattooed on his arm and was promoting their beliefs , yet today he is married to a very dark black lady. I think people can change and be better placed for judging than the people judging them for what they once were. Simon - Lesley Dove Tuesday, April 08, 2003 2:06 PM RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts If anyone wants to know the truth of this (not that I think anyone is remotely interested..) they can email me directly. I can explain how I came to be emailing very briefly a former NF member and activist. I did not pass on anyone's personal details, that is a lie. I did however invite him onto the other list to defend himself against things that were being said about things he did many years ago. He never joined the list anyway. I felt he had the right to know what was being said and refute it and explain where he stood now if he chose to. He probably quite rightly thought it was not worth the bother because of bigots like Edith who cannot believe that people can change. Lesley slg edith [slgedith]06 April 2003 22:34 Subject: RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts>I hope Michael when he returns will take action over some of your comments>LesleyLeslie just wants me banned so she can tell lies without being contradicted even though I defended her from a life-time ban on the *other* list...That is Leslie, who passed on personal details of a vegan anti-fascist on this list to a notorious *former* fascist and now she is trying to justify herself!Edith_______________Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail & pgmarket=en-gb & XAPID=32 & DI=1059~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 i lived in a house where my mother smoked ... my father smoked ... my grandmother smoked 40 a day ... my uncle smoked ... my mum's second husband smoked and the lodger smoked ... i'm fine ... healthy enough anyway ... you were unlucky... Lesley Dove [Lesley] It does depend how much you are exposed, my parents house is stinky with it all the time, in the walls and the curtains, not everyone who gets exposed gets the same amount and some of us are more sensitive than others. I can't change the past. I can speak up for today's kids though. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 You get aches and pains, you might be healthier if you had not been smoke-poisoned, you don't know Lesley Oliver Slay [oliver]08 April 2003 14:55 Subject: RE: Smoking debate via other thoughts i lived in a house where my mother smoked ... my father smoked ... my grandmother smoked 40 a day ... my uncle smoked ... my mum's second husband smoked and the lodger smoked ... i'm fine ... healthy enough anyway ... you were unlucky... Lesley Dove [Lesley] It does depend how much you are exposed, my parents house is stinky with it all the time, in the walls and the curtains, not everyone who gets exposed gets the same amount and some of us are more sensitive than others. I can't change the past. I can speak up for today's kids though. Lesley~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 i know that i would not get aches and pains if i had not fallen from a height onto the back of my skull 16 years ago... Lesley Dove [Lesley] You get aches and pains, you might be healthier if you had not been smoke-poisoned, you don't know Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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