Guest guest Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Why does it seem there is an objection to touch on animal rights in this group? I would like to think that many of the vegans here are primarily vegan for compassionate reasons, but I'm wondering if this is the case? Maybe the compassionate ones could speak up more? With regards AR topics, I just pictured there being mails about, say, a fete organised to raise money for vegan society/compassion in world farming/other charity. Or someone sends a draft of a letter about, as an example, need for larger nesting areas for pigs when pregnant. Why an objection to such mails being present? Why would this be such a bad thing if there's plenty of other vegan topics being discussed? The animals don't have a voice unfortunately, but I'm sure I don't need to be explaining this here! I would have thought that wanting to help the animals would be something alot of vegans here would have in common and want to connect about. After all, compassion is a common reason why people go vegan, so i don't really see discussing things we do to help the animals as being off topic here on a vegan list. Anyone actually in agreement with me on this? Jak - Oliver Slay Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:26 PM RE: AR topic if you want to talk about AR ... it would be nice if you could take it to the appropriate forum ... rather than use this one out of convenience. Jak [jak.remec] Yes, a mix of topics was what I had in mind. "Events to help animals" being one of various topics. A couple of people have recently spoke up saying if the list becomes an AR one they'd leave. I wonder if they will leave even if we are talking about what events are going on and what we're doing for the animals ASWELL as talking about other topics such as products, recipes, other life style topics and general chat? Can I ask those who objected about AR, is it that you have a dislike of it becoming AR ONLY, or would you object even if AR is touched on amongst other topics? Jak**~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 The main concern for me is the promotion of veganism. Which means to me the avoidance of products that are derived from animals. As veganism increases and awareness of food production methods, slaughterhouses etc increases then the demand for these products will decline and alternative methods will be sought. And the promotion of new and interesting ways of using plants for food and clothes will increase. Veganism is about a lifestyle that is non-harming towards animals and hopefully towards all creatures - including humans. The whole precept behind finding new and interesting ways of using plants for food and clothes involves a huge amount of respect for other beings on this planet. This is very different from AR which is predominantly against animal cruelty and promoting the rights of animals to a world that thinks that animals do not have any right except to live so that they can be killed. And to how much an extent does AR involve cruelty to human beings? Who of course are also animals.... but of course we can ignore that ... because they can think for themselves.... at least that is what we are led to believe in 20th Century moral philosophy... (but i disagree with that for various reasons i shall not go into right now...) The promotion of awareness of animal cruelty is fine ... so long as we are promoting awareness. And ways in which people can avoid products that involve this kind of cruelty and the alternatives that are available. The market/industry works by demand. Fighting other humans over their cruelty will not decrease demand. But offering a more humane and less cruel alternative will decrease demand for products that involve cruelty ... ie non-leather shoes over leather/suede shoes ... soya products over dairy products... And nothing changes quickly... yet emotion demands that the world react aswell and change as quickly. It won't change just because of our emotions. Just like throwing mud against a brick wall. We have to find ways of deconstructing the wall. I have always chosen to live in very non-vegan environments... hitch-hiking in France... grape-picking on french farms... working in factories ... in the City (London) ... travelling in Japan ... in Spain... in Italy.. africa ... and i am a very strict vegan... and so everyone i meet with for lunch etc... learns that i am vegan ... i reckon that's a lot of people who never would have got to hear about it had i chosen to avoid anyone who eats meat just because their lifestyle involves so much indirect cruelty towards the animal kingdom... should i send this? Jak [jak.remec] Why does it seem there is an objection to touch on animal rights in this group? I would like to think that many of the vegans here are primarily vegan for compassionate reasons, but I'm wondering if this is the case? Maybe the compassionate ones could speak up more? ** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 As I said in a earlier post...Veganism and AR are just to closely connected for me to treat as totally separate issues. I'm wondering if those that don't want to talk about AR's. Do they not think animals have rights..I'm not sure why they don't want it discussed. Surely an opinion on the rights of animals is not to much to discuss. Simon I would have thought that wanting to help the animals would be something alot of vegans here would have in common and want to connect about. After all, compassion is a common reason why people go vegan, so i don't really see discussing things we do to help the animals as being off topic here on a vegan list. Anyone actually in agreement with me on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 i'm reading The Lives of Animals by J.M.Coetzee (this year's Nobel Prize winner for literature) ... it is basically about animal rights... it is an in-depth subject which has very very little to do with veganism ... i'm not sure what the right to not be subjected to psychological experimentation has to do with veganism .. even if many vegans are against the idea of it ... and even if anyone fighting for the animals being subjected to this treatment are vegan or not ... and they need not be vegan to be concerned about animal welfare... even if a vegan AR might think they are being hypocritical ... simonpjones [simonpjones] As I said in a earlier post...Veganism and AR are just to closely connected for me to treat as totally separate issues.I'm wondering if those that don't want to talk about AR's.Do they not think animals have rights..I'm not sure why they don't want it discussed.Surely an opinion on the rights of animals is not to much to discuss.Simon ** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I think it is not a complex issue..animals should not be eaten..nor should they be subject to any form of cruelty..It's not that differcult to see when an animal is unhappy much like a human. Shouldn't animals be judged by their contentment as a general guide. - Oliver Slay Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:59 PM RE: vegan for compassionate reasons i'm reading The Lives of Animals by J.M.Coetzee (this year's Nobel Prize winner for literature) ... it is basically about animal rights... it is an in-depth subject which has very very little to do with veganism ... i'm not sure what the right to not be subjected to psychological experimentation has to do with veganism .. even if many vegans are against the idea of it ... and even if anyone fighting for the animals being subjected to this treatment are vegan or not ... and they need not be vegan to be concerned about animal welfare... even if a vegan AR might think they are being hypocritical ... simonpjones [simonpjones] As I said in a earlier post...Veganism and AR are just to closely connected for me to treat as totally separate issues.I'm wondering if those that don't want to talk about AR's.Do they not think animals have rights..I'm not sure why they don't want it discussed.Surely an opinion on the rights of animals is not to much to discuss.Simon**~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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