Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Hi Oliver, >but animal rights is not just about their right not to be eaten but many vegans became vegans because they care about animal welfare. Their care about animal welfare does not end with not eating animal products, many vegans care about animal welfare in general, including whether they are experimented on. (Btw, a product would not be accepted as vegan by the vegan society if it had been tested on animals). If vegans have this common concern, they should be allowed to speak about it here to each other (unless the description on the home page is changed). >it is also about other rights that veganism does not attempt to address... this is not a >fault of veganism it is just out of the scope of veganism ... and there is much to veganism >that is totally out of the scope of animal rights... I think you'll find that many vegans here care about animal welfare in general. You seem to be getting stuck on your own personal understanding of the definition of veganism, forgetting this is an online vegan community for vegans to chat to each other about all sorts of things, fronm general chit-chat to matters close to their hearts. Why are you so hung up on stopping people from talking about what they want to talk about? It's not that we want to talk about the latest mission into space or what the priminister had for tea last night (although I bet if we did there'd be less complaints than there has been about talking about animal welfare!). >and if one of the main reasons for people being vegan was the fact that animals have a >right not to be eaten ... then veganism fails to meet that objective ... being vegan does >not stop animals being eaten.... it stops ourselves from eating animals... and thus >veganism effectively ends up being a personal choice of avoidance of and alternatives to >products of cruelty.... Of course being vegans stop animals being eaten, that's the whole idea of being a vegan! I know what you're saying 'though, that it doesn't stop all animals from being eaten. But here you're getting stuck on semantics and tailoring them to somehow prove why animal welfare should not be discussed here. But you miss the point, as we are here as vegans to discuss what is of interest to us. That can vary from vegan to vegan, but a common denominator for most vegans is caring about the animals. If we can't talk about what is close to many of our hearts as vegans, then what is the purpose for this list if not but to stifle what some vegans want to speak about to each other? Jak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 right ... well for one thing ... i am not trying to stifle anything ... if anything there have been more posts about veganism here than there has been for a while ... :-) you fail to notice that we are in fact talking about animal rights and veganism ... perhaps not in the format that you wish to ... so i don't quite understand why you think i am stuck on preventing talk about it ... ? i am questionning and i am criticising and i am separating ... but all in the name of furthering discussion ... i could have left it ... but i disagree and i am having my portion of free speech ... whether anyone agrees with me or not doesn't really bother me ... that is not my aim ... what i disagree with is the absolute lumping together of animal rights/welfare with veganism. Certainly they overlap .. most things do .. and i am seeking that the overlap is clear ... and perhaps people will see that not all vegans are hard animal rights campaigners ... that there are differing degrees of activism within the vegan community ranging from only vegan to vegan animal rights activist / animal rehabilitation workers ... and so on ... frankly my job is not related to animals at all ... i don't ever have any contact with animals ... and this have nothing to do with my concerns for animal welfare... nor my compassion for them ... and that needs to be understood as a valid point of view ... rather than being fobbed off as selfish and uncaring by those who have directed their lives towards more directly caring roles... in the end what people choose to talk about is up to them... you are right we have a delete key ... personally i read everything that i receive... i like the discussion ... and the argument ... and i like to play Devil's Advocate ... and i am talking about things that are close to my heart ... so why can i not say what i want to say? Jak [jak.remec] You seem to be getting stuck on your own personal understanding of the definition of veganism, forgetting this is an online vegan community for vegans to chat to each other about all sorts of things, fronm general chit-chat to matters close to their hearts. Why are you so hung up on stopping people from talking about what they want to talk about? But here you're getting stuck on semantics and tailoring them to somehow prove why animal welfare should not be discussed here. But you miss the point, as we are here as vegans to discuss what is of interest to us. That can vary from vegan to vegan, but a common denominator for most vegans is caring about the animals. If we can't talk about what is close to many of our hearts as vegans, then what is the purpose for this list if not but to stifle what some vegans want to speak about to each other? ** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Message Hi Oliver, >you fail to notice that we are in fact talking about animal rights and veganism ... perhaps >not in the format that you wish to ... so i don't quite understand why you think i am >stuck on preventing talk about it ... ? probably has something to do with, and I quote you, saying: " if you want to talk about AR ... it would be nice if you could take it to the appropriate forum ... rather than use this one out of convenience " . Did you forget you said this? >in the end what people choose to talk about is up to them... you are right we have a >delete key ... personally i read everything that i receive... i like the discussion ... and the >argument ... and i like to play Devil's Advocate ... If I've understood you right, it seems you are changing your mind about whether it's ok to discuss ar here? >and i am talking about things that are close to my heart ... so why can i not say what i >want to say? when did i tell you to take your conversation to another list? ; - ) Jak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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