An Ahimsa ThanXgiving - Fast 2003

[Guest guest]

i was not necessarily agreeing with mavreela or disagreeing ... merely saying that spammed is a perfectly good word ... and who needs dictionaries enniway? neither did i suggest that you are a spammer...

 

if you sent the email to many different groups then that can be construed as a spam since you are sending one email to many different platforms where many more people will read your message... if you do this once then you spammed ... yet that does not make you a 'spammer' ...

 

 

 

fidyl [fidyl] "Spammers" don't reply/respond.= = = = = = , "Oliver Slay" <oliver@l...> wrote:> "spammed" is a perfectly good word ... from "to spam"... i spam ...> you spam ... he spams .... we spammed ... > > forget dictionaries ... "language is liquid, it don't move fast enough"> ... > > veganism is international ... thanksgiving is not.... thanksgiving is a> way of killing lots of animals in the name of giving thanks for> something or other... no thanks to the turkeys ... > > boycott Thanksgivings altogether...

 

**

[Guest guest]

i became a vegan on Xmas Day 1993 ... 10 years ago that very day ...

 

 

 

fidyl [fidyl] Don't even get me started on Xmas P-)What insight you had so many years ago.I wish you had shared that with me back then!It's nice to see that some listmembers actually mull the issue instead of lashing out from their egos.

 

**

[Guest guest]

Spamo, Spamas, Spamant

Spamora, Spamorous, Spament.

 

I'm pink therefore I'm spam.

 

Instead of deleting one mail that could *possibly* have been construed as spam, I must have trawled through at least 20 debating the point. THATS spam in my book ... and on a Vegan list too!!

 

Can we talk about something else now?

> "spammed" is a perfectly good word ... from "to spam"... i spam ...> you spam ... he spams .... we spammed ... > Graham LucasThe Fabulous Fezheads, an Oasis in the Desert of the Webhttp://www.Fezheads.comEveryone makes mistakes; that's why they put rubbers on the ends of pencilsWant to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE

Messenger

[Guest guest]

>Spamo, Spamas, Spamant

>Spamora, Spamorous, Spament.

>

 

Go to the bottom of the class, puer !

 

Spamo

Spamas

Spamat

Spamamus

Spamatis

Spamant

 

Vale,

 

Paulus

 

--

[Guest guest]

Yeah, Sorry, Ratin's never been my strong point, too much Anglo Saxon blood I suppose. Still can't get used to all these square buildings and straight streets!

 

Graham.Paul Russell <prussell wrote:

>Spamo, Spamas, Spamant>Spamora, Spamorous, Spament.>Go to the bottom of the class, puer !SpamoSpamasSpamatSpamamusSpamatisSpamantVale,Paulus--

[Guest guest]

oh so sorry ... forgot this was the 'other list' ...

 

 

 

Graham Lucas [graham_lucas]

 

Instead of deleting one mail that could *possibly* have been construed as spam, I must have trawled through at least 20 debating the point. THATS spam in my book ... and on a Vegan list too!!

 

Can we talk about something else now?

 

 

**

[Guest guest]

>Yeah, Sorry, Ratin's never been my strong point, too much Anglo

>Saxon blood I suppose. Still can't get used to all these square

>buildings and straight streets!

>

 

Well there weren't many veg*ns in ancient Rome. Plenty in ancient

Greece though (e.g. Pythagoras).

 

Paul

--

[Guest guest]

, " fidyl " <fidyl> wrote:

> Don't even get me started on Xmas P-)

>

> What insight you had so many years ago.

> I wish you had shared that with me back then!

 

Well, it's not an AR thing or anything like that, it's more a

religious thing. Christmas claims to be a Christian festival, but

it's not at all. It was celebrated for many years before Christ came

on the scene (in October, interestingly enough!!) and is an old sun

worship festival, the Saturnalia.

 

Whatever the reasons, it's just SO nice to be out of all the family

contentions and all the competitions and stress that go along with

the so-called season of goodwill!

 

Hugs,

 

Elisabeth=)

[Guest guest]

, Graham Lucas <graham_lucas>

wrote:

> Can we talk about something else now?

 

Oh well said Graham!

 

Why do we always waste so much time and energy debating what can and

can't be discussed on this list without everyone having mega-freaks

and just get on with at least discussing *something*?? I keep on

trying to start topics, but hardly anyone responds. Then someone

posts something really quite harmless and easy to avoid and lots of

folk are up in arms about it. The vegan spirit of gentleness has

gone on holiday again.....

 

Elisabeth=)

[Guest guest]

Great idea! Thank you Jo.

 

Janey

x

 

 

> Hi Janey

>

> I would have to tell them I couldn't eat them but say I would

bring along some food to share. I hope it goes well.

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I heard he had a new angle on eating habits!Paul Russell <prussell wrote:

Well there weren't many veg*ns in ancient Rome. Plenty in ancient Greece though (e.g. Pythagoras).Paul-- Graham LucasThe Fabulous Fezheads, an Oasis in the Desert of the Webhttp://www.Fezheads.comEveryone makes mistakes; that's why they put rubbers on the ends of pencilsWant to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE

Messenger

[Guest guest]

hi jo

yep excellent stuff

catherine

>"Heartwork"

> >

>Re: An Ahimsa ThanXgiving - Fast 2003 >Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:08:50 -0000 > >Catherine > >That's good - don't forget the chakra clearing and cutting the ties as well. They can be helpful. > >Jo > - > Catherine Harris > > Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:50 PM > Re: An Ahimsa ThanXgiving - Fast 2003 > > > hi jo > > thank you for your wishes................i am doing overdrive on protection and healing rituals at present.............. > > tc > > catherine > > > > >"Heartwork" > > > >> >Re: An Ahimsa ThanXgiving - Fast 2003 > >Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:35:16 -0000 > > > >Hi Catherine > > > >Sorry about the divorce. I hope everything fits into place and you can get some enjoyment from the Solstice/Yule. > > > >BB > >Jo > > - > > Catherine Harris > > > > Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:12 PM > > Re: An Ahimsa ThanXgiving - Fast 2003 > > > > > > hi all > > > > christmas appraoches and a family get together looms on the horizon...........i have had the stupidity to get embroiled in a messy divorce just as the season approaches and i can see many obstacles to my vegan diet and philosophy presenting them selves.............. > > > > all of it stressful............i just want a vegan roast dinner....................peace and quiet without the approbation of rellies............... > > > > and of course to celebrate the solstice..................... > > > > catherine > > > > > > > > >"fidyl" > > > > > > > > > An Ahimsa ThanXgiving - Fast 2003 > > >Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:46:59 -0000 > > > > > >Namaste > > > > > >Oh, no! Here it comes again! Those dreaded holidays where Vegans > > >waffle between: > > > > > >A) Going to a family get-together and literally suffer through hours > > >of staring at dead carcasses, watching as others gulp down - not > > >chewing - these abused souls, > > >B) Going to a family get-together and endure all those not so casual > > >comments about anti-Veganism, > > >C) Not going to these gatherings and trying to arrange a dinner or > > >like-minded folks, > > >D) Not going to these gatherings and staying by themselves with their > > >Tofurkeys, > > >E) Not going to these gatherings and wondering if we hurt the > > >feelings of unconcerned/uncaring humans, > > >F) Not going to the dinners, but arriving afterwards for "dessert" > > >G) Not going to these gatherings and fasting. > > > > > >That's right! I said FASTING. > > >I will be fasting this ThanXgiving again - this has been a tradition > > >since 1998. > > >I hope some list members will be joining me on this day of torture, > > >death, greed, selfishness and debauchery by doing the same. > > > > > >My fast is in HONOR/REMEMBERENCE/REVERENCE of the MILLIONS of animals > > >that are tortured and abused, then slaughtered just for this one (1) > > >day alone in the U.S. > > > > > >I am not discussing one (1) day fasts. My fasts run from Wednesday > > >until Sunday. > > > > > >Fasting achieves numerous benefits. It is a wonderful way to clean > > >out the body as far as health is concerned. > > > > > >Spiritually, it also cleanses the soul. > > > > > >Originally, fasting was used to 'get closer to the higher being.' > > > > > >It was also used to rid sick bodies of diseases. This was copied from > > >watching animals when they are ill. They either eat greens or nothing > > >at all. > > > > > >Modern times has shown fasting to be a form of protest. > > >Gandhi also used fasting to bring his point across. > > > > > >My fasting tradition has came about when I could no longer go to > > >family gatherings for this 'holiday' and sit around a table infested > > >with dead carcass and by-products. > > >Even the 'religious' holidays were laughable as we traipsed to our > > >building of worship only to march back to a home full of death, > > >abuse and chemical irresponsibility. > > > > > >I have had numerous opportunities to join like-minded folks for a > > >holiday feast, but prefer to not look upon this holiday as a festive > > >occasion. Why? Because it also represents false facts throughout > > >American history. Native Americans were thwarted into slavery and > > >near-annihilitation by the 'white man' in the name of 'god.' Recent > > >findings are coming out that there was no turkey - or even any kind > > >of 'meat' - at the dinner; only fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains. > > > > > >Then, back to modern times, it always bothered me that after these > > >dinners, the male attendees would gather together in front of a > > >television set to watch the bloodsport known as 'football,' leaving > > >the women (slaves again to the 'white man') to clean up and watch > > >after the children. > > > > > >You are invited and welcome to join my discussion list: > > >SoFlaVegans/ > > > > > >Starting next week there will appear articles, information and guides > > >about the history and hypocrisy of ThanXgiving, as well as how to > > >cope with the upcoming holidays. > > >Additionally, you will find ways to fast safely and wisely. > > >For those who wish to "celebrate" and not fast, you will find tons of > > >recipes and tips, as well! > > > > > >As we ready ourselves for Fur-Free Friday, I wish everyone who is > > >willing to "take the plunge" the best of luck in a successful and > > >quick fast, and may all of our efforts pay off! > > > > > >= = = = = = = = = = > > > > > >Here are my other discussion lists that also contain tons of > > >information in each of their categories - DAILY!!! > > >Please research the message archives for information you are seeking > > >and what you have missed: > > > > > >Everything Yoga! > > >Yoga-With-Nancy-SoFla/ > > > > > >American Sign Language and Deaf Culture > > >SignSoFla/ > > > > > >Alternative Schooling Within The School System > > >SoFlaSchools/ > > > > > >Om Shanti > > > > > > > > > > > Have more fun with your mobile - add polyphonic ringtones, java games, celebrity voicemails and loads more! Click here for phone fun. > >

[Guest guest]

, " John Davis " <mcxg46@d...> wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I've been a hater of Christmas for years. Well, I would be, being

vegan, not

> a Christian,

 

Well I'm both vegan and Christian and Christmas is incompatible with

both!!

 

Hugs,

 

Elisabeth=)

[Guest guest]

>Yeah, I heard he had a new angle on eating habits!

>

 

Even so, people still thought he was a bit of a square.

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

> I've been a hater of Christmas for years. Well, I would be,

being

vegan, not

> a Christian,

 

Well I'm both vegan and Christian and Christmas is

incompatible with

both!!>

 

I'd hope as others do that Christ would have Vegan masses

theses days...I find it hard to believe that he would have

enjoyed gnawing on animal parts anyway.

[Guest guest]

, simonpjones@o... wrote:

> I'd hope as others do that Christ would have Vegan masses

> theses days...I find it hard to believe that he would have

> enjoyed gnawing on animal parts anyway.

 

Well, he didn't give diet any air-time really, the scriptures don't

as a general. It was a whole different story those days though. The

general diet was a plant based one with locally caught fish,

depending on if you happened to live near the Sea of Galilee etc, and

slaughtering the fattened bull for special occasions only. Most

people wouldn't have owned much in the way of flocks and there were

no Tescos in those days!!!=) Clean air and water too.... Sigh!!

 

hugs,

 

Elisabeth=)

[Guest guest]

>

>Well, he didn't give diet any air-time really, the scriptures don't

>as a general. It was a whole different story those days though. The

>general diet was a plant based one with locally caught fish,

>depending on if you happened to live near the Sea of Galilee etc, and

>slaughtering the fattened bull for special occasions only. Most

>people wouldn't have owned much in the way of flocks and there were

>no Tescos in those days!!!=) Clean air and water too.... Sigh!!

>

 

Many of the early Christian sects were vegetarian, but they

eventually got wiped out by the Church of Rome (in some cases they

were massacred by the Pope's men).

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

, Paul Russell <prussell@s...> wrote:

> Many of the early Christian sects were vegetarian,

 

Early Christianity had no divisions at all - they were all one lot

until people started weaving in outside traditions and philisophies.

The scriptures themselves just concentrate on spiritual matters and

God's Kingdom, they don't go into diet beyond what's in the Mosaic

Law. The decision is left to the individual but there's an

interesting passage in one of Paul's letters that tells us not to

look down on each other for 'eating or not eating'. Nice balance.

 

>but they

> eventually got wiped out by the Church of Rome (in some cases they

> were massacred by the Pope's men).

 

Yeah, ain't that the truth.=( Many of the truths that the early

Christians embraced were thrown out and then buried by the same

crew.

 

At the end of the day, what we are as people is more important, but I

prefer to leave the animal foods to others all the same!!=)

 

hugs,

 

Elisabeth=)

[Guest guest]

, " Elisabeth Braun "

<elisabeth.braun@n...> wrote:

 

> Well I'm both vegan and Christian and Christmas is incompatible

with

> both!!

 

Even though I am not Christian, I have had to " justify " veganism to

Christians. Genesis 1v29 tells Christians that God gave made the

plants for them to eat. The same chapter also tells them that God

gave humans " dominion " or " stewardship " over creation. I used to

point out the the rest of the Bible had a lot to say about

good " stewardship " and most Christians were Bad Stewards of creation -

industrial farming, environmental abuses and so on. They took the

point. Most conceded that I was right but didn't feel they could

become vegan.

 

Essentially, modern-day vegan Christians fall into two broad camps

(as far as I've seen so far). The first camp believe that Jesus was

vegan and that all the gospels were doctored to remove the evidence.

The second camp take the bible as is and consider it's animal rights

message (in a similar way to how Christian feminists are able to use

the bible to argue against patriachy in the church).

 

" Animal Gospel " by Andrew Linzey is a good book about the second

group. It was sold by Animal Aid but is now out of print.

Veganvillage.co.uk lists websites for the " Jesus was vegan too " group.

 

Paul is right to say that many early Christians were vegetarian. One

other reason for that was their avoidance of meat that had been

sacrificed to non-Christians Gods.

 

Siofra

[Guest guest]

, " wee_siofra " <c.macneill@z...> wrote:

.....

> The second camp take the bible as is and consider it's animal

rights

> message (in a similar way to how Christian feminists are able to

use

> the bible to argue against patriachy in the church).

 

Oh, corrupt it then!?!!!=)LOL!!!

 

Really, the Bible has no animal rights statement at all beyond

Proverbs 12:10 - " The righteous one is caring for the soul of his

domestic animal, but the mercies of the wicked ones are cruel " . It

just leaves dietary matters to the individual with the exception of

the consumption of blood.

 

> Veganvillage.co.uk lists websites for the " Jesus was vegan too "

group.

 

If he was, it makes one wonder why he miraculously provided fish 3 or

4 times in the Gospel accounts and not tofu!!!=) Seriously though,

it's a nice thought, but historically, it just doesn't hold water.

Shame, but there it is.

 

> Paul is right to say that many early Christians were vegetarian.

 

Only a small percentage of them as those that were would be the ones

who believed the Gospel accounts to have been doctored and the

majority of early Christians, at least those who could really call

themselves such, just went by what the Scriptures said.

 

>One

> other reason for that was their avoidance of meat that had been

> sacrificed to non-Christians Gods.

 

True indeed! A Christian *would* avoid meat rather than eat

something sacrificed to an idol.

 

Hugs,

 

Elisabeth=)

Long-term Bible student, but still vegan.....

[Guest guest]

>

>Only a small percentage of them as those that were would be the ones

>who believed the Gospel accounts to have been doctored and the

>majority of early Christians, at least those who could really call

>themselves such, just went by what the Scriptures said.

>

 

Um, the Gospels hadn't even been *written* at the time of the early

Christians. About the only second testament book that had been

written at that time was Acts of the Apostles.

 

Paul

 

--

[Guest guest]

, Paul Russell <prussell@s...> wrote:

> Um, the Gospels hadn't even been *written* at the time of the early

> Christians. About the only second testament book that had been

> written at that time was Acts of the Apostles.

 

Hi Paul!

 

Gospel of Matthew written in Hebrew about 41 later put into Greek,

Luke 56-58, Mark about 60-65 and John in 98. Acts was written around

61. Before that, plenty of eye witness reports in circulation etc.

Also, the Pauline letters were written between 50 and 65 as well as

those by Peter and James in the early 60's and the rest of John's

writings in the late 90's. Jesus died spring 33, so that's not too

far behind.=)

 

Also worth noting is that the entire Hebrew canon was complete a

couple of centuries before this time and the early disciples would

have been using this extensively too. Like the later Greek

scriptures, it made no mention of vegetarianism, so the first century

Christians would not have got that impression from there.

 

Hugs,

 

Elisabeth=)

[Guest guest]

plus there was no internet then ... and few people could read... and few people were gathered in the towns ... so the spread of Christianity was bound to be very slow ... and most people would still be living off the land with their own animistic deities ... only occasionally listening to the random speeches they hear at the markets when they needed to barter their goods...

 

 

 

Elisabeth Braun [elisabeth.braun]

 

Also worth noting is that the entire Hebrew canon was complete a couple of centuries before this time and the early disciples would have been using this extensively too. Like the later Greek scriptures, it made no mention of vegetarianism, so the first century Christians would not have got that impression from there.

 

**

[Guest guest]

I suppose those reading the Bible( in what ever time since written) would

have noted a few paragraphes into Genesis God saying to be vegetarian.

In fact ''anything with the breathe of life in it'' unquote:- That would

include animals no doubt. It's a pretty clear statement to me.

 

cheers

 

Simon

 

> Also worth noting is that the entire Hebrew canon was complete a

> couple of centuries before this time and the early disciples would

> have been using this extensively too. Like the later Greek

> scriptures, it made no mention of vegetarianism, so the first century

> Christians would not have got that impression from there.

>

>

>

> ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

> there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

> ---------------------------

> Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> Un: send a blank message to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

only because you are blinded by it ...

 

 

 

simon [simonpjones] I suppose those reading the Bible( in what ever time since written) wouldhave noted a few paragraphes into Genesis God saying to be vegetarian.In fact ''anything with the breathe of life in it'' unquote:- That wouldinclude animals no doubt. It's a pretty clear statement to me.

 

**