Lecturer Demands Students Use Chicken Eggs.

November 3, 2006

I am currently at engineering school and today a lecturer set a

project that includes the use of Chicken eggs.

The project is to design a semi-autonomous device that is able to

climb a ladder. This device has to climb the ladder smoothly and carry

a Chicken egg safely to the top.

I told the lecturer that I had an ethical objection to this, to which

he responded with bewilderment! He said that I need not worry about

this issue as the eggs would be provided and I would not be required

to purchase my own! I explained the very obvious flaw in his offered

solution but he asserts that Chicken eggs must be used.

Obviously I will never willfully be party to any such unethical

activity, so I seek to find an alternative to the Chicken egg. I am

thinking that, if the lecturer remains steadfast in his demand that

Chicken eggs be used I could use an egg of another species taken from

a suitable bird that currently resides in a refuge (rescued bird). If

there is such a bird then its eggs would be waste to be disposed of,

so my taking possession of them would not be ethically conflicting.

There is the possibility of obtaining Chicken eggs from a Chicken

sanctuary. Eggs from such a place would be a natural consequence, and

not the commercial product of a cruel industry. But if I were to take

eggs from a Chicken sanctuary then there is the possibility that I

would be taking eggs that would otherwise be sold to people. If the

Chicken eggs from the sanctuary, which resulted through zero cruelty,

are then not available to the people who seek to purchase Chicken eggs

then these people might then purchase eggs from another source, such

as a commercial producer. So there exists a chance that I could be

sending business to the egg industry, hence adding to the suffering of

Chickens, if I were to take eggs from a sanctuary.

I would be happy if no eggs at all were involved. This is the 21st

century and this project is based in a modern engineering department

so there really should be another way. I see no valid reason why

motion and vibration sensors cannot be used. Such sensors could,

instead of the egg, be carried by the ladder-climbing device. It is

archaic, ludicrous and highly unethical for a university to demand the

usage of chicken eggs.

The university would never set a project that would involve the use of

dead pigs, as that would offend the Muslims at the university. But

because my ethics are not a part of any religious belief I am treated

with disdain when I object. This society is pathetic and ridiculous

for only accepting ethics when they are attached to credulity, such as

religious dogma.

I will be doing all I can to try to have this design specification

(use of Chicken eggs) revoked. I will be printing out some articles

and photographs on battery hens and other aspects of egg production

and the egg industry. I will also be burning a DVD copy of the

documentary `Earthlings'. I will give this video and information to

the lecturer so he will be able to understand and hopefully appreciate

the true nature of my ethical objection. If, after seeing the

evidence, he persists in his demands then I will write to the head of

department and maybe even the dean of the entire university.

Any ideas and comments are welcome.

November 3, 2006

You can get ceramic eggs for use in " egg and spoon " races etc -

they're the right size, shape and weight - why not present one of

those and ask if you can use it instead ?

Paul

On 3 Nov 2006, at 19:13, veganseer wrote:

> I am currently at engineering school and today a lecturer set a

> project that includes the use of Chicken eggs.

>

> The project is to design a semi-autonomous device that is able to

> climb a ladder. This device has to climb the ladder smoothly and carry

> a Chicken egg safely to the top.

>

> I told the lecturer that I had an ethical objection to this, to which

> he responded with bewilderment! He said that I need not worry about

> this issue as the eggs would be provided and I would not be required

> to purchase my own! I explained the very obvious flaw in his offered

> solution but he asserts that Chicken eggs must be used.

>

> Obviously I will never willfully be party to any such unethical

> activity, so I seek to find an alternative to the Chicken egg. I am

> thinking that, if the lecturer remains steadfast in his demand that

> Chicken eggs be used I could use an egg of another species taken from

> a suitable bird that currently resides in a refuge (rescued bird). If

> there is such a bird then its eggs would be waste to be disposed of,

> so my taking possession of them would not be ethically conflicting.

> There is the possibility of obtaining Chicken eggs from a Chicken

> sanctuary. Eggs from such a place would be a natural consequence, and

> not the commercial product of a cruel industry. But if I were to take

> eggs from a Chicken sanctuary then there is the possibility that I

> would be taking eggs that would otherwise be sold to people. If the

> Chicken eggs from the sanctuary, which resulted through zero cruelty,

> are then not available to the people who seek to purchase Chicken eggs

> then these people might then purchase eggs from another source, such

> as a commercial producer. So there exists a chance that I could be

> sending business to the egg industry, hence adding to the suffering of

> Chickens, if I were to take eggs from a sanctuary.

>

> I would be happy if no eggs at all were involved. This is the 21st

> century and this project is based in a modern engineering department

> so there really should be another way. I see no valid reason why

> motion and vibration sensors cannot be used. Such sensors could,

> instead of the egg, be carried by the ladder-climbing device. It is

> archaic, ludicrous and highly unethical for a university to demand the

> usage of chicken eggs.

>

> The university would never set a project that would involve the use of

> dead pigs, as that would offend the Muslims at the university. But

> because my ethics are not a part of any religious belief I am treated

> with disdain when I object. This society is pathetic and ridiculous

> for only accepting ethics when they are attached to credulity, such as

> religious dogma.

>

> I will be doing all I can to try to have this design specification

> (use of Chicken eggs) revoked. I will be printing out some articles

> and photographs on battery hens and other aspects of egg production

> and the egg industry. I will also be burning a DVD copy of the

> documentary `Earthlings'. I will give this video and information to

> the lecturer so he will be able to understand and hopefully appreciate

> the true nature of my ethical objection. If, after seeing the

> evidence, he persists in his demands then I will write to the head of

> department and maybe even the dean of the entire university.

>

> Any ideas and comments are welcome.

>

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November 3, 2006

HI VS,

Sounds a real pain.

I think everything you propose is good thinking. I would advise presenting

the DVD as ancillary material. The real point is that this offends deeply

held ethics and shouldn't therefore be compulsory, but I'd also make that

ancillary - simply presenting a technical solution as your main argument.

Like for example a ping-pong ball filled with a viscous fluid (such as

glycerine) to simulate an egg. Being round it would be even less stable than

an egg and measure instability in the climbing device in both horizontal

planes (which an egg is less effective at being...er...oval). Designing a

device to test the stability could even profitably be made part of the

assignment.

Doing it that way, the tutor doesn't have to do any work: they just have to

say " yes " . Engineering a solution so that it's someone's path of least

resistance is always an effective tactic (though not guaranteed to work!).

If s/he doesn't play ball, you then have to escalate things by, for example,

replying and summarising your case and what you have done and asking him to

reconsider, at the same time putting a " cc " so that he can see you are

sending courtesy copies to your supervisor, the administration, NUS etc.

These courtesy copies could then be accompanied by enclosures made up of

copies of everything you sent to the tutor: ping pong design, suggested

amendment to future assignments (you could also raise cost and health

aspects - broken eggs, salmonella etc.) and the DVD etc. Hopefully everyone

will work together to suggest the tutor then plays ball. If not, you can

make a formal complaint, but with any luck that won't be necessary.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

Mike

November 8, 2006

Thank you, Mike and Paul, for your response. I will look into what you

suggested and see how things pan out.

There is a meeting with staff and students this Friday so I will raise

this issue during it. Ultimately if the decision to use chicken eggs

is not rescinded then I will just have to fail the module and let

everyone know why.

November 8, 2006

If they do not allow you an alternative you could look into your legal

rights as this is a clear case of discrimination against you for your

beliefs.

Such discrimination is illegal of course under the Human Rights Act but a

landmark vegan test case might be just what is needed so no-one else dares

to do this in future!

There are definitely vegan legal experts, Jay Ashra is one (not sure whether

he is on Vegan Society council or not now).

Good luck,

Lesley

_____

On Behalf Of

veganseer

08 November 2006 12:37

Re: Lecturer Demands Students Use Chicken Eggs.

Thank you, Mike and Paul, for your response. I will look into what you

suggested and see how things pan out.

There is a meeting with staff and students this Friday so I will raise

this issue during it. Ultimately if the decision to use chicken eggs

is not rescinded then I will just have to fail the module and let

everyone know why.

November 10, 2006

Thanks. Today I was able to hand over some information that I had

prepared on chickens and eggs to the lecturer. As soon as I had he

realised that I was serious about this issue and said I could, if it

really does matter, use something to substitute the egg.

So I am no longer required to use the chicken egg but the rest of the

class is expected to. I hope that the lecturer does look at the

information I gave him, including the copy of 'Earthlings', and then

realises what goes on regarding chicken farming and egg production.

Then he would, hopefully, realise the nature of my objection and

perhaps understand the suffering and torment inflicted upon these

birds in order to produce those innocuous looking products in the

supermarket.

If a person is not outraged and hell bent on, at the very least,

changing their ways on learning what really goes on then they truly

are scum. Of course many people are imprisoned behind their belief

system bulwarks and, in effect, need to be reprogrammed. But if a

person truly does not care then they are the lowest of the low.

Without empathy and compassion the world is but a sewer.

I will continue to fight, and educate the other students on modern

farming practices. I think, as suggested before, I will use the

biohazard / health & safety angle, regarding the toxicity of eggs and

their salmonella content, to prompt the department to ban their use. I

will find some studies on the salmonella situation (I read that almost

all eggs are infected) to show to the university. Of course I now have

to find a suitable replacement for the egg; it has to be as delicate

and as breakable as an egg, so it could be quite a task. If I am

successful, and I am confident that I will be, I shall offer the

replacements for use by all.

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote:

>

> If they do not allow you an alternative you could look into your legal

> rights as this is a clear case of discrimination against you for your

> beliefs.

>

> Such discrimination is illegal of course under the Human Rights Act

but a

> landmark vegan test case might be just what is needed so no-one else

dares

> to do this in future!

>

> There are definitely vegan legal experts, Jay Ashra is one (not sure

whether

> he is on Vegan Society council or not now).

>

> Good luck,

>

> Lesley

>

November 10, 2006

Congratulations, a victory not only for vegans everywhere, but I say for common

sense.

The Valley Vegan..................

veganseer <veganseer wrote: