Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Cheezly. Holland & Barrett sell it, Fresh & Wild sell it, at one time even Tesco sold it. I do not like it (well other than for cooking pizzas), though seems Redwood has monopolized the soya cheese market making it very difficult to find Scheese. And when you can find the latter they usually only have cheddar or hickory smoked. So anyone know of places in London can you buy it? And just who sells the cheshire version, have not seen it at all down here. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 I am also a fan of Scheese, and agree it is harder to get hold of than Cheezly. I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also have it at their Richmond branch. Here are the contact details for their other stores, as I would guess you might want central London, http://www.revital.co.uk/Stores Worth calling them to see? Lesley _____ On Behalf Of mav lists 10 November 2006 11:11 Not cheezly Cheezly. Holland & Barrett sell it, Fresh & Wild sell it, at one time even Tesco sold it. I do not like it (well other than for cooking pizzas), though seems Redwood has monopolized the soya cheese market making it very difficult to find Scheese. And when you can find the latter they usually only have cheddar or hickory smoked. So anyone know of places in London can you buy it? And just who sells the cheshire version, have not seen it at all down here. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Hi, (Personally I'm a Cheezly fan - I'm not sure I recall what cheese tastes like, but I like Cheezly anyway!) I don't know about 'real' shops, but the online health food shop Goodness Direct sells both Cheezly and Scheeze. The site is: www.goodnessdirect.co.uk Cheers, John - " mav lists " <ndisc Friday, November 10, 2006 11:10 AM Not cheezly > Cheezly. > > Holland & Barrett sell it, Fresh & Wild sell it, at one time even Tesco > sold it. > > I do not like it (well other than for cooking pizzas), though seems > Redwood has monopolized the soya cheese market making it very difficult > to find Scheese. And when you can find the latter they usually only > have cheddar or hickory smoked. > > So anyone know of places in London can you buy it? And just who sells > the cheshire version, have not seen it at all down here. > > Michael. > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: > I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also > have it > at their Richmond branch. I was regularly visiting Twickenham over the summer and so Richmond is useful to know about for next year. Thanks. Central London is easiest but within reason I do not mind travelling elsewhere if not too far (and someone interesting). Whole Foods Market (Fresh & Wild owners) claim their new Kensington store opening next year will be the largest food retailer in London. Seems hard to believe, but you would have to hope they would be stocking Scheese to be able to fill that space. On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 12:11 PM, John Davis wrote: > (Personally I'm a Cheezly fan - I'm not sure I recall what cheese > tastes > like, but I like Cheezly anyway!) There seems to be a definite split between whether a person likes Cheezly or Scheese. I too cannot remember what dairy cheese tastes like either, but would like to think nasty bitter Cheezly is the realistic one! > I don't know about 'real' shops, but the online health food shop > Goodness > Direct sells both Cheezly and Scheeze. The site is: > www.goodnessdirect.co.uk Interesting site, I have never heard of them before. Expensive compared to a real shop with the delivery charges but useful as a last resort (or when making a big order - might be useful for my mam to get items in for Christmas). Thanks for pointing it out. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Hi Michael, Yes, Goodness Direct's shipping costs aren't cheap for small orders. But, since I'd rather buy from them than a supermarket, I tend to do a big order once a month for everything I can, which just sneaks in to their free shipping deal (something like 6 or more chilled items and £50.+, give or take). John - " mav lists " <ndisc Friday, November 10, 2006 2:19 PM Re: Not cheezly > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: >> I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also >> have it >> at their Richmond branch. > > I was regularly visiting Twickenham over the summer and so Richmond is > useful to know about for next year. Thanks. > > Central London is easiest but within reason I do not mind travelling > elsewhere if not too far (and someone interesting). > > Whole Foods Market (Fresh & Wild owners) claim their new Kensington > store opening next year will be the largest food retailer in London. > Seems hard to believe, but you would have to hope they would be > stocking Scheese to be able to fill that space. > > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 12:11 PM, John Davis wrote: >> (Personally I'm a Cheezly fan - I'm not sure I recall what cheese >> tastes >> like, but I like Cheezly anyway!) > > There seems to be a definite split between whether a person likes > Cheezly or Scheese. I too cannot remember what dairy cheese tastes > like either, but would like to think nasty bitter Cheezly is the > realistic one! > >> I don't know about 'real' shops, but the online health food shop >> Goodness >> Direct sells both Cheezly and Scheeze. The site is: >> www.goodnessdirect.co.uk > > Interesting site, I have never heard of them before. Expensive > compared to a real shop with the delivery charges but useful as a last > resort (or when making a big order - might be useful for my mam to get > items in for Christmas). Thanks for pointing it out. > > Michael. > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. The Valley Vegan............. mav lists <ndisc wrote: Cheezly. Holland & Barrett sell it, Fresh & Wild sell it, at one time even Tesco sold it. I do not like it (well other than for cooking pizzas), though seems Redwood has monopolized the soya cheese market making it very difficult to find Scheese. And when you can find the latter they usually only have cheddar or hickory smoked. So anyone know of places in London can you buy it? And just who sells the cheshire version, have not seen it at all down here. Michael. Peter H All new Mail " The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. " - PC Magazine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 09:06 PM, peter VV wrote: > Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. Seems rather petulant? I eat things because I like them, not because of what they are alleged to taste like. And rarely do. Except the edam Scheese, that does taste like real edam which is why I dislike it. A sausage, for example, is an abstract manufactured product and meat has no more claim to being processed into that form than wheat gluten. I am not trying to change your mind, I just fail to see any value in such a position. And where is the line drawn? A chilli made with bulgar wheat or lentils rather than soya mince is still an analogue to a meat dish. Seitan, tofu, and tempeh are also often used as analogues to meats without being processed into fake meats. On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: > I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also > have it > at their Richmond branch. I happened to be in Richmond so had a look and not only did they sell it, they had it in every flavour. Except Cheshire. Which is my favourite. It beats the health store in the mall at Stratford for being the best place to buy it, and for me a lot more convenient, though slightly. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Michael, a little update, " Food for Thought " in Kingston had Scheese in stock the other day too, not sure if they had Cheshire, maybe Scheese is making a comeback? It's certainly not too difficult around this part of outer London to get hold of. H & B don't have it but they do have loads of the Fry's range in their Kingston branch so we are very well sorted out for our favourite meat and cheese analogues, usually from those two shops. I like Cheddar Scheese (or Cheezly) best usually, (I am Cheshire born and bred but never like Cheshire cheese too much). Kingston is quite a good town because they have the Riverside Vegetaria there. Glad the tip about Revital was of some help anyway. Lesley _____ On Behalf Of mav lists 24 November 2006 11:34 Re: Not cheezly On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 09:06 PM, peter VV wrote: > Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. Seems rather petulant? I eat things because I like them, not because of what they are alleged to taste like. And rarely do. Except the edam Scheese, that does taste like real edam which is why I dislike it. A sausage, for example, is an abstract manufactured product and meat has no more claim to being processed into that form than wheat gluten. I am not trying to change your mind, I just fail to see any value in such a position. And where is the line drawn? A chilli made with bulgar wheat or lentils rather than soya mince is still an analogue to a meat dish. Seitan, tofu, and tempeh are also often used as analogues to meats without being processed into fake meats. On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: > I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also > have it > at their Richmond branch. I happened to be in Richmond so had a look and not only did they sell it, they had it in every flavour. Except Cheshire. Which is my favourite. It beats the health store in the mall at Stratford for being the best place to buy it, and for me a lot more convenient, though slightly. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. , mav lists <ndisc wrote: > > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 09:06 PM, peter VV wrote: > > Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. > > Seems rather petulant? I eat things because I like them, not because of > what they are alleged to taste like. And rarely do. Except the edam > Scheese, that does taste like real edam which is why I dislike it. A > sausage, for example, is an abstract manufactured product and meat has > no more claim to being processed into that form than wheat gluten. > > I am not trying to change your mind, I just fail to see any value in > such a position. And where is the line drawn? A chilli made with > bulgar wheat or lentils rather than soya mince is still an analogue to > a meat dish. Seitan, tofu, and tempeh are also often used as analogues > to meats without being processed into fake meats. > > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: > > I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also > > have it > > at their Richmond branch. > > I happened to be in Richmond so had a look and not only did they sell > it, they had it in every flavour. Except Cheshire. Which is my > favourite. It beats the health store in the mall at Stratford for > being the best place to buy it, and for me a lot more convenient, > though slightly. > > Michael. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: > Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to > analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to explain an opinion as being on principle. Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I do not understand so was hoping others might explain. Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I am sorry but to me my opinion is valid . Sorry you think it petulant, please dont judge and criticise people it doesnt help. You comparison of a bulgar chili and a soya tvp one does not work for me if the tvp is " beef " flavoured. Lentils and bulgar wheat are not. Setian and tofu are not meat flavoured. My thought process on analogues that try and taste and have the same texture as the dead flesh they try and emulate, are that I want nothing to do with them or the things that they seek to be. Why have fishless fingers? why not have a bit of imagination and name them something that doesnt refer to what the are trying to copy?, and most vegans are trying to avoid? Same with other products which are aimed usualy at new vegetarians who miss the taste and texture of burnt dead flesh. At the end of the day it is down to choice, we are all entitled to our opinions. You have yours and I mine, right or wrong shouldnt come into it. The Valley Vegan........... mav lists <ndisc wrote: On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 09:06 PM, peter VV wrote: > Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. Seems rather petulant? I eat things because I like them, not because of what they are alleged to taste like. And rarely do. Except the edam Scheese, that does taste like real edam which is why I dislike it. A sausage, for example, is an abstract manufactured product and meat has no more claim to being processed into that form than wheat gluten. I am not trying to change your mind, I just fail to see any value in such a position. And where is the line drawn? A chilli made with bulgar wheat or lentils rather than soya mince is still an analogue to a meat dish. Seitan, tofu, and tempeh are also often used as analogues to meats without being processed into fake meats. On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: > I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also > have it > at their Richmond branch. I happened to be in Richmond so had a look and not only did they sell it, they had it in every flavour. Except Cheshire. Which is my favourite. It beats the health store in the mall at Stratford for being the best place to buy it, and for me a lot more convenient, though slightly. Michael. Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, and it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet and just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not get that at all. I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend them and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these go through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise to get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting ppl to talk. As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind them at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is just a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and I can understand that too. So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not like them. Lesley _____ On Behalf Of mav lists 25 November 2006 19:19 Re: Re: Not cheezly On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: > Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to > analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to explain an opinion as being on principle. Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I do not understand so was hoping others might explain. Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Of course your opinion is perfectly valid, although if you persuaded your wife to eat fake meat surely that would be a lot better than her being a carnivore? I have to say right and wrong does come into it when it comes to getting ppl eating fewer animals. You don't have to eat pretend meat obviously, just be a bit positive with her about these products for the sake of converting her, assuming she likes meat too much to eat the way you eat. One annoying thing I found about vegetable fingers was that I could not find a vegan brand, I used to look at them in the shops, Dalepak and Birds Eye make them but they were never vegan only vegetarian, while fishless fishfingers are vegan. I've noticed this a lot with brands imitating meat and those that are more vegetable-based cutlets or fingers, the more meat-like are less likely oddly to have egg in as a binder. Lesley _____ On Behalf Of peter VV 25 November 2006 20:46 Re: Not cheezly I am sorry but to me my opinion is valid . Sorry you think it petulant, please dont judge and criticise people it doesnt help. You comparison of a bulgar chili and a soya tvp one does not work for me if the tvp is " beef " flavoured. Lentils and bulgar wheat are not. Setian and tofu are not meat flavoured. My thought process on analogues that try and taste and have the same texture as the dead flesh they try and emulate, are that I want nothing to do with them or the things that they seek to be. Why have fishless fingers? why not have a bit of imagination and name them something that doesnt refer to what the are trying to copy?, and most vegans are trying to avoid? Same with other products which are aimed usualy at new vegetarians who miss the taste and texture of burnt dead flesh. At the end of the day it is down to choice, we are all entitled to our opinions. You have yours and I mine, right or wrong shouldnt come into it. The Valley Vegan........... mav lists <ndisc (AT) mavreela (DOT) <ndisc%40mavreela.com> com> wrote: On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 09:06 PM, peter VV wrote: > Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. Seems rather petulant? I eat things because I like them, not because of what they are alleged to taste like. And rarely do. Except the edam Scheese, that does taste like real edam which is why I dislike it. A sausage, for example, is an abstract manufactured product and meat has no more claim to being processed into that form than wheat gluten. I am not trying to change your mind, I just fail to see any value in such a position. And where is the line drawn? A chilli made with bulgar wheat or lentils rather than soya mince is still an analogue to a meat dish. Seitan, tofu, and tempeh are also often used as analogues to meats without being processed into fake meats. On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: > I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also > have it > at their Richmond branch. I happened to be in Richmond so had a look and not only did they sell it, they had it in every flavour. Except Cheshire. Which is my favourite. It beats the health store in the mall at Stratford for being the best place to buy it, and for me a lot more convenient, though slightly. Michael. Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger <http://uk.messenger.> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 08:46 PM, peter VV wrote: > Sorry you think it petulant, please dont judge and criticise people it > doesnt help. " Petulant " is neither a criticism nor a judgement, it is a adjective which describes someone holding a contemptuous attitude towards something simply for being irrespective of anything else. That you might like the taste of a particular vegan product is totally irrelevant to you because you will not want anything to do with it. As for your chastising me, for posting my equally valid opinion on your comment, you are the one who felt the need to post your irrelevant and unhelpful opinion, valid though it may be, in response to my desire to buy a brand of soya cheese. If you do no wish it to be queried and debated then why post it all? > Why have fishless fingers? Why not? The reason people become vegan is to avoid the unnecessary use of other animals for own needs. I doubt many changed simply because they objected to certain tastes or textures, if so they would not even become vegan and instead just avoid those things, it would certainly not justify being against by products in additives that neither affect taste nor texture. If you can have a particular taste or a particular texture in an entirely vegan way then I fail to see what is wrong with that? No one is forcing anyone to eat something they do not like, it does not harm " the cause " , and it gives people more choices. I still fail to see any justification for avoiding them on principle. (Well other than coming from an environmental or spiritual position against processed foods in general.) Personally I never really liked meat at initially became a vegetarian as a child on that basis but I do eat some fake meat products. If anything that is reason enough to say they do not taste like the thing they purport to. Meanwhile seitan you say is okay yet is often used as an analogue and I find has a very meaty texture. Anyway as valid as all our opinions apparently are, daring to examine them on here seems to upset people so maybe we should leave everything unquestioned. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 This will be my last post on the subject as you seem to disagree in a way as to try and teach me the meaning of words. In my dictionary petulant means : easily annoyed and complaining in a childish and rude way Now how you got that from me saying something innocent as " I don't like any analogues " I will never know, At the risk of repeating myself as you seem to have ignored my reason, anything which resembles and tries to taste like any dead animal, I will not eat as it is just too close to the real thing and reminds me of the reason I became a vegan. This is just my feelings on the matter, and is purely personal. I find nothing petulant in there. If you want to eat these products then good luck with that, I would not stop anyone eating anything, even carnivores, its down to personal choice. Best Wishes. The Valley Vegan............. mav lists <ndisc wrote: On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 08:46 PM, peter VV wrote: > Sorry you think it petulant, please dont judge and criticise people it > doesnt help. " Petulant " is neither a criticism nor a judgement, it is a adjective which describes someone holding a contemptuous attitude towards something simply for being irrespective of anything else. That you might like the taste of a particular vegan product is totally irrelevant to you because you will not want anything to do with it. As for your chastising me, for posting my equally valid opinion on your comment, you are the one who felt the need to post your irrelevant and unhelpful opinion, valid though it may be, in response to my desire to buy a brand of soya cheese. If you do no wish it to be queried and debated then why post it all? > Why have fishless fingers? Why not? The reason people become vegan is to avoid the unnecessary use of other animals for own needs. I doubt many changed simply because they objected to certain tastes or textures, if so they would not even become vegan and instead just avoid those things, it would certainly not justify being against by products in additives that neither affect taste nor texture. If you can have a particular taste or a particular texture in an entirely vegan way then I fail to see what is wrong with that? No one is forcing anyone to eat something they do not like, it does not harm " the cause " , and it gives people more choices. I still fail to see any justification for avoiding them on principle. (Well other than coming from an environmental or spiritual position against processed foods in general.) Personally I never really liked meat at initially became a vegetarian as a child on that basis but I do eat some fake meat products. If anything that is reason enough to say they do not taste like the thing they purport to. Meanwhile seitan you say is okay yet is often used as an analogue and I find has a very meaty texture. Anyway as valid as all our opinions apparently are, daring to examine them on here seems to upset people so maybe we should leave everything unquestioned. Michael. Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 My wife does like dead flesh too much to give it up, and I have accepted that in the same way that she accepts my veganism and beliefs. She does buy quorn now and again ( like a lot of meat eaters ) so maybe its a start, and she will eat whatever I cook for myself, so she isnt a full time carnie.Every little helps. Our two daughters though are vegetarian and have never eaten meat, and strangely enough have never eaten analogues either.Maybe its a case of you never miss what you never had? The Valley Vegan................. Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: Of course your opinion is perfectly valid, although if you persuaded your wife to eat fake meat surely that would be a lot better than her being a carnivore? I have to say right and wrong does come into it when it comes to getting ppl eating fewer animals. You don't have to eat pretend meat obviously, just be a bit positive with her about these products for the sake of converting her, assuming she likes meat too much to eat the way you eat. One annoying thing I found about vegetable fingers was that I could not find a vegan brand, I used to look at them in the shops, Dalepak and Birds Eye make them but they were never vegan only vegetarian, while fishless fishfingers are vegan. I've noticed this a lot with brands imitating meat and those that are more vegetable-based cutlets or fingers, the more meat-like are less likely oddly to have egg in as a binder. Lesley _____ On Behalf Of peter VV 25 November 2006 20:46 Re: Not cheezly I am sorry but to me my opinion is valid . Sorry you think it petulant, please dont judge and criticise people it doesnt help. You comparison of a bulgar chili and a soya tvp one does not work for me if the tvp is " beef " flavoured. Lentils and bulgar wheat are not. Setian and tofu are not meat flavoured. My thought process on analogues that try and taste and have the same texture as the dead flesh they try and emulate, are that I want nothing to do with them or the things that they seek to be. Why have fishless fingers? why not have a bit of imagination and name them something that doesnt refer to what the are trying to copy?, and most vegans are trying to avoid? Same with other products which are aimed usualy at new vegetarians who miss the taste and texture of burnt dead flesh. At the end of the day it is down to choice, we are all entitled to our opinions. You have yours and I mine, right or wrong shouldnt come into it. The Valley Vegan........... mav lists <ndisc (AT) mavreela (DOT) <ndisc%40mavreela.com> com> wrote: On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 09:06 PM, peter VV wrote: > Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. Seems rather petulant? I eat things because I like them, not because of what they are alleged to taste like. And rarely do. Except the edam Scheese, that does taste like real edam which is why I dislike it. A sausage, for example, is an abstract manufactured product and meat has no more claim to being processed into that form than wheat gluten. I am not trying to change your mind, I just fail to see any value in such a position. And where is the line drawn? A chilli made with bulgar wheat or lentils rather than soya mince is still an analogue to a meat dish. Seitan, tofu, and tempeh are also often used as analogues to meats without being processed into fake meats. On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: > I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also > have it > at their Richmond branch. I happened to be in Richmond so had a look and not only did they sell it, they had it in every flavour. Except Cheshire. Which is my favourite. It beats the health store in the mall at Stratford for being the best place to buy it, and for me a lot more convenient, though slightly. Michael. Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger <http://uk.messenger.> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 I don't agree that analogues are bad. Surely though, in modern, English-speaking society, petulant IS a criticism. http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/petulant?view=uk http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/petulant http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/petulant , mav lists <ndisc wrote: > > On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 08:46 PM, peter VV wrote: > > Sorry you think it petulant, please dont judge and criticise people it > > doesnt help. > > " Petulant " is neither a criticism nor a judgement, it is a adjective > which describes someone holding a contemptuous attitude towards > something simply for being irrespective of anything else. That you > might like the taste of a particular vegan product is totally > irrelevant to you because you will not want anything to do with it. > > As for your chastising me, for posting my equally valid opinion on your > comment, you are the one who felt the need to post your irrelevant and > unhelpful opinion, valid though it may be, in response to my desire to > buy a brand of soya cheese. If you do no wish it to be queried and > debated then why post it all? > > > Why have fishless fingers? > > Why not? The reason people become vegan is to avoid the unnecessary > use of other animals for own needs. I doubt many changed simply > because they objected to certain tastes or textures, if so they would > not even become vegan and instead just avoid those things, it would > certainly not justify being against by products in additives that > neither affect taste nor texture. > > If you can have a particular taste or a particular texture in an > entirely vegan way then I fail to see what is wrong with that? No one > is forcing anyone to eat something they do not like, it does not harm > " the cause " , and it gives people more choices. I still fail to see any > justification for avoiding them on principle. (Well other than coming > from an environmental or spiritual position against processed foods in > general.) > > Personally I never really liked meat at initially became a vegetarian > as a child on that basis but I do eat some fake meat products. If > anything that is reason enough to say they do not taste like the thing > they purport to. Meanwhile seitan you say is okay yet is often used as > an analogue and I find has a very meaty texture. > > Anyway as valid as all our opinions apparently are, daring to examine > them on here seems to upset people so maybe we should leave everything > unquestioned. > > Michael. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Hi, I recall this debate from last time around (and probably the time around before that!). On the one hand, analogues will encourage meat-eaters to take the plunge. On the other hand, they reinforce the belief that only things that look and taste like meat are tasty. A two-edged sword, then. As one who found becoming vegan much easier because of substitute - for milk, cheese and mince in particular - I think it does more good than harm. But it is equally important to bear in mind that it can be seen as a stage in veganism like any other, and, ideally, there would be no need for analogues. Mind you, it is also the case that the best way of getting a bit of tasty soy protein in one's sandwich is in the form of a fake meat slice. The best thing to go in my chilli con carne is fake mince. There is a reason these shapes were created! John - " peter VV " <swpgh01 Saturday, November 25, 2006 8:46 PM Re: Not cheezly >I am sorry but to me my opinion is valid . Sorry you think it petulant, >please dont judge and criticise people it doesnt help. > You comparison of a bulgar chili and a soya tvp one does not work for me > if the tvp is " beef " flavoured. Lentils and bulgar wheat are not. Setian > and tofu are not meat flavoured. > My thought process on analogues that try and taste and have the same > texture as the dead flesh they try and emulate, are that I want nothing to > do with them or the things that they seek to be. > Why have fishless fingers? why not have a bit of imagination and name > them something that doesnt refer to what the are trying to copy?, and most > vegans are trying to avoid? Same with other products which are aimed > usualy at new vegetarians who miss the taste and texture of burnt dead > flesh. > At the end of the day it is down to choice, we are all entitled to our > opinions. You have yours and I mine, right or wrong shouldnt come into it. > > The Valley Vegan........... > > mav lists <ndisc wrote: > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 09:06 PM, peter VV wrote: >> Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. > > Seems rather petulant? I eat things because I like them, not because of > what they are alleged to taste like. And rarely do. Except the edam > Scheese, that does taste like real edam which is why I dislike it. A > sausage, for example, is an abstract manufactured product and meat has > no more claim to being processed into that form than wheat gluten. > > I am not trying to change your mind, I just fail to see any value in > such a position. And where is the line drawn? A chilli made with > bulgar wheat or lentils rather than soya mince is still an analogue to > a meat dish. Seitan, tofu, and tempeh are also often used as analogues > to meats without being processed into fake meats. > > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: >> I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also >> have it >> at their Richmond branch. > > I happened to be in Richmond so had a look and not only did they sell > it, they had it in every flavour. Except Cheshire. Which is my > favourite. It beats the health store in the mall at Stratford for > being the best place to buy it, and for me a lot more convenient, > though slightly. > > Michael. Peter H > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 On Sunday, November 26, 2006, at 10:55 PM, nejmai wrote: > Surely though, in modern, > English-speaking society, petulant IS a criticism. > http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/petulant?view=uk > http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/petulant > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/petulant My usage is given in the latter link as " 2. Contemptuous in speech or behavior. " But given how poor the other dictionaries are I suppose it is understandable that my meaning was lost so I apologize if it came across the wrong way. What word should I have used instead? Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 On Sunday, November 26, 2006, at 06:19 PM, peter VV wrote: > This will be my last post on the subject as you seem to disagree in a > way as to try and teach me the meaning of words. I was not trying to teach you the meaning of words (though it seems I have done) but explain how I was using it so you would understand my point better. As I said in another post I never realized that many dictionaries do not include the full meaning of the word so I apologize if my usage was misunderstood, I can see how you took it the wrong way. > At the risk of repeating myself as you seem to have ignored my reason, > anything which resembles and tries to taste like any dead animal, I > will not eat as it is just too close to the real thing and reminds me > of the reason I became a vegan. Which is why I do not understand why you see a difference between a bulgar wheat chili and a soya mince one when both are ways of replicating the texture of a chilli con carne, and neither of which to me taste like meat. (Personally I can understand not liking the latter simply because it tastse's vile though.) Likewise I find that seitan has far more resemblance to meat than most processed fake meats do, and so there seems to be an obstinance (if that choice of word is less controversial) to the idea that one is bad because simply because it is marketed as a fake meat while the other is okay despite being far more meat-like. Would, for example, your attitude to seitan instantly change if Tesco started selling it in a box labeled " Vege-Beef " ? Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Oh my good God in heaven. Perhaps you should look up the definition of arrogant or obnoxious. I included two highly regarded dictionaries (Oxford English and Merriam-Webster), along with one pop-dictionary in order to provide variation. Your post after this insinuating that you have " taught " people the definition of the word petulant is laughable. If you honestly believe that calling someone petulant is not a criticism, then maybe you need to get out and interact with people more. <<moves on to more important arguments , mav lists <ndisc wrote: > > On Sunday, November 26, 2006, at 10:55 PM, nejmai wrote: > > Surely though, in modern, > > English-speaking society, petulant IS a criticism. > > http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/petulant?view=uk > > http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/petulant > > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/petulant > > My usage is given in the latter link as " 2. Contemptuous in speech or > behavior. " But given how poor the other dictionaries are I suppose it > is understandable that my meaning was lost so I apologize if it came > across the wrong way. What word should I have used instead? > > Michael. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Hi John, I agree about analogues being a good introduction and a lesson in becoming vegetarian, but as I have stated before, why do they make so many that try and taste like and look like bits of burnt animal? that is my bugbear. Maybe its down to marketing and demographics and target audience.. As for chili, have you not tried bulgar wheat?, it is approximately the same size when swollen as TVP, and you can flavour it how you seem fit ( roast it and / or soak it in stock etc ). At the end of the day ( at the risk of repeating myself and boring you all ) it is down to personal choice , in my books its what you want to put in your mouth, not mine. Its your choice. Nice to hear from you again. The Valley Vegan............. John Davis <mcxg46 wrote: Hi, I recall this debate from last time around (and probably the time around before that!). On the one hand, analogues will encourage meat-eaters to take the plunge. On the other hand, they reinforce the belief that only things that look and taste like meat are tasty. A two-edged sword, then. As one who found becoming vegan much easier because of substitute - for milk, cheese and mince in particular - I think it does more good than harm. But it is equally important to bear in mind that it can be seen as a stage in veganism like any other, and, ideally, there would be no need for analogues. Mind you, it is also the case that the best way of getting a bit of tasty soy protein in one's sandwich is in the form of a fake meat slice. The best thing to go in my chilli con carne is fake mince. There is a reason these shapes were created! John - " peter VV " <swpgh01 Saturday, November 25, 2006 8:46 PM Re: Not cheezly >I am sorry but to me my opinion is valid . Sorry you think it petulant, >please dont judge and criticise people it doesnt help. > You comparison of a bulgar chili and a soya tvp one does not work for me > if the tvp is " beef " flavoured. Lentils and bulgar wheat are not. Setian > and tofu are not meat flavoured. > My thought process on analogues that try and taste and have the same > texture as the dead flesh they try and emulate, are that I want nothing to > do with them or the things that they seek to be. > Why have fishless fingers? why not have a bit of imagination and name > them something that doesnt refer to what the are trying to copy?, and most > vegans are trying to avoid? Same with other products which are aimed > usualy at new vegetarians who miss the taste and texture of burnt dead > flesh. > At the end of the day it is down to choice, we are all entitled to our > opinions. You have yours and I mine, right or wrong shouldnt come into it. > > The Valley Vegan........... > > mav lists <ndisc wrote: > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 09:06 PM, peter VV wrote: >> Sorry cant help , not a fan of analogues in any shape or form. > > Seems rather petulant? I eat things because I like them, not because of > what they are alleged to taste like. And rarely do. Except the edam > Scheese, that does taste like real edam which is why I dislike it. A > sausage, for example, is an abstract manufactured product and meat has > no more claim to being processed into that form than wheat gluten. > > I am not trying to change your mind, I just fail to see any value in > such a position. And where is the line drawn? A chilli made with > bulgar wheat or lentils rather than soya mince is still an analogue to > a meat dish. Seitan, tofu, and tempeh are also often used as analogues > to meats without being processed into fake meats. > > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Lesley Dove wrote: >> I do know it can be bought in Revital in Hounslow, I think they also >> have it >> at their Richmond branch. > > I happened to be in Richmond so had a look and not only did they sell > it, they had it in every flavour. Except Cheshire. Which is my > favourite. It beats the health store in the mall at Stratford for > being the best place to buy it, and for me a lot more convenient, > though slightly. > > Michael. Peter H > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Hi Peter, No, I haven't tried bulgar wheat - must have passed me by. I'll look out for it and give it a go. I think that the point of making analogues taste like meat is to make things easier for meat-lovers to become vegan. If they didn't, they wouldn't be such a good introduction to veganism. So yep, as you say, down to the target audience - a meat eater is more likely to try soya that looks and tastes like sausage than a soya lump. And I can confirm that personally...I loved the taste of meat - I became vegan for moral reasons, not taste ones, so the fact that I could still enjoy a porkless pie was a great help. We need all the tools to help people become vegans we can get our hands on, and if analogues work by tasting and looking like meat, But yes, certainly it is of course up to personal choice what one eats. Well, sort of - rampant fascist vegan that I am, I don't believe people should have the choice to eat meat, any more than the choice to murder a human. But that is a different issue! John - " peter VV " <swpgh01 Monday, November 27, 2006 5:37 PM Re: Not cheezly > Hi John, > I agree about analogues being a good introduction and a lesson in > becoming vegetarian, but as I have stated before, why do they make so many > that try and taste like and look like bits of burnt animal? that is my > bugbear. Maybe its down to marketing and demographics and target > audience.. > As for chili, have you not tried bulgar wheat?, it is approximately the > same size when swollen as TVP, and you can flavour it how you seem fit ( > roast it and / or soak it in stock etc ). > At the end of the day ( at the risk of repeating myself and boring you > all ) it is down to personal choice , in my books its what you want to put > in your mouth, not mine. Its your choice. > > Nice to hear from you again. > > The Valley Vegan............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Like you I don't support people having the choice to kill and eat animals, it annoys me a bit how some vegans do support that choice (obviously not as much as animal eaters annoy me and I respect anyone pretty much if they are vegan). That for me says they do not really believe in animal rights, only human choices to be kind or not. Actually if ppl wanted to eat animals after a natural death, I would think it was pretty revolting but I would have no real ethical problem with it, it's the killing not the eating that is wrong. You are not fascist, I actually have to object that you would use that word describing your viewpoint (and mine), those who support killing animals for food are closer to fascists than we could ever be if the word has to come into it (and I would prefer not to use it anyway). I think bulgur is the same as cous-cous maybe? I'd agree with everything you said about analogues and their usefulness. Lesley _____ On Behalf Of John Davis 28 November 2006 09:52 Re: Not cheezly Hi Peter, No, I haven't tried bulgar wheat - must have passed me by. I'll look out for it and give it a go. I think that the point of making analogues taste like meat is to make things easier for meat-lovers to become vegan. If they didn't, they wouldn't be such a good introduction to veganism. So yep, as you say, down to the target audience - a meat eater is more likely to try soya that looks and tastes like sausage than a soya lump. And I can confirm that personally...I loved the taste of meat - I became vegan for moral reasons, not taste ones, so the fact that I could still enjoy a porkless pie was a great help. We need all the tools to help people become vegans we can get our hands on, and if analogues work by tasting and looking like meat, But yes, certainly it is of course up to personal choice what one eats. Well, sort of - rampant fascist vegan that I am, I don't believe people should have the choice to eat meat, any more than the choice to murder a human. But that is a different issue! John - " peter VV " <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) <swpgh01%40talk21.com> com> <@ <%40> .com> Monday, November 27, 2006 5:37 PM Re: Not cheezly > Hi John, > I agree about analogues being a good introduction and a lesson in > becoming vegetarian, but as I have stated before, why do they make so many > that try and taste like and look like bits of burnt animal? that is my > bugbear. Maybe its down to marketing and demographics and target > audience.. > As for chili, have you not tried bulgar wheat?, it is approximately the > same size when swollen as TVP, and you can flavour it how you seem fit ( > roast it and / or soak it in stock etc ). > At the end of the day ( at the risk of repeating myself and boring you > all ) it is down to personal choice , in my books its what you want to put > in your mouth, not mine. Its your choice. > > Nice to hear from you again. > > The Valley Vegan............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 On 28 Nov 2006, at 10:55, Lesley Dove wrote: > > > I think bulgur is the same as cous-cous maybe? > I think bulgur is just a type of wheat (rather chewy), whereas cous cous is essentially tiny bits of pasta, i.e. dried semolina flour. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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