Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my dismay,a rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel welcome, and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater ( not that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont know, certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. The Valley Vegan............... Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, and it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet and just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not get that at all. I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend them and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these go through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise to get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting ppl to talk. As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind them at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is just a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and I can understand that too. So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not like them. Lesley _____ On Behalf Of mav lists 25 November 2006 19:19 Re: Re: Not cheezly On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: > Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to > analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to explain an opinion as being on principle. Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I do not understand so was hoping others might explain. Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Peter, I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable " people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile Jo >-- Original Message -- > >peter VV <swpgh01 >Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my dismay,a >rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel welcome, >and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater ( not >that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont know, >certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. > I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. > > The Valley Vegan............... > >Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: > The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >and >it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >and >just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. > >I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to >meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! >Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not get >that at all. > >I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but >of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend them >and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were >interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. > >This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these go >through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >to >get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >ppl to talk. > >As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind them >at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is just >a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any >good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for >years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and >I >can understand that too. > >So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not >like them. > >Lesley > >_____ > > On Behalf >Of >mav lists >25 November 2006 19:19 > >Re: Re: Not cheezly > >On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. > >Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >explain an opinion as being on principle. > >Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on >what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I >do not understand so was hoping others might explain. > >Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? > >Michael. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Wierd isnt it? The Valley Vegan............. Jo Kimberley <Kimberley1 wrote: Peter, I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable " people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile Jo >-- Original Message -- > >peter VV >Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my dismay,a >rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel welcome, >and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater ( not >that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont know, >certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. > I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. > > The Valley Vegan............... > >Lesley Dove wrote: > The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >and >it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >and >just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. > >I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to >meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! >Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not get >that at all. > >I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but >of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend them >and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were >interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. > >This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these go >through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >to >get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >ppl to talk. > >As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind them >at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is just >a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any >good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for >years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and >I >can understand that too. > >So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not >like them. > >Lesley > >_____ > > On Behalf >Of >mav lists >25 November 2006 19:19 > >Re: Re: Not cheezly > >On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. > >Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >explain an opinion as being on principle. > >Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on >what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I >do not understand so was hoping others might explain. > >Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? > >Michael. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 But there's different vegan stereotypes isn't there. Here's what I've come across so far: 1. Boring librarian type 2. Zany extravagent type 3. Mellow hippy type 4. Thoughtful, quiet ('unsociable') type Hope I haven't missed any stereotypes. Which strain are you (anyone)? Go on - pigeon hole yourself!! I think if I'm probably a number 4. (If we're all number 4's, it could explain why this list is so quiet sometimes!...) Cheers, James Jo Kimberley wrote: > Peter, > > I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable " > people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) > and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe > this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find > the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile > > Jo > > > >> -- Original Message -- >> >> peter VV <swpgh01 >> Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >> RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >> >> >> >> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >> by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >> forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my dismay,a >> rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel welcome, >> and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >> to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >> Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater ( >> > not > >> that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont >> > know, > >> certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. >> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. >> >> The Valley Vegan............... >> >> Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: >> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >> and >> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >> and >> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >> >> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to >> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! >> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not >> > get > >> that at all. >> >> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but >> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend >> > them > >> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were >> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. >> >> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >> > go > >> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >> to >> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >> ppl to talk. >> >> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind >> > them > >> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is just >> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any >> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for >> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and >> I >> can understand that too. >> >> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not >> like them. >> >> Lesley >> >> _____ >> >> On Behalf >> Of >> mav lists >> 25 November 2006 19:19 >> >> Re: Re: Not cheezly >> >> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >> >>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >>> >> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >> > > >> explain an opinion as being on principle. >> >> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on >> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I >> > > >> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >> >> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >> >> Michael. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 I'm a mix between no 2 & 3 depending on my mood and what time of day its etc Why would the no 4's be interested in joining a group specifically created for social reasons? (Maybe you should rename your group " Don't expect too much conversation as we're thoughtful, quiet vegans " ( or make it clear to people) then people looking for friendly,sociable vegans may have second thoughts about going I find there are quite a lot of no 4 personality types, >-- Original Message -- > >James H <james >Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:08:58 +0000 >Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >But there's different vegan stereotypes isn't there. Here's what I've >come across so far: > > 1. Boring librarian type > 2. Zany extravagent type > 3. Mellow hippy type > 4. Thoughtful, quiet ('unsociable') type > >Hope I haven't missed any stereotypes. > >Which strain are you (anyone)? Go on - pigeon hole yourself!! > >I think if I'm probably a number 4. (If we're all number 4's, it could >explain why this list is so quiet sometimes!...) > >Cheers, >James > > > >Jo Kimberley wrote: >> Peter, >> >> I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable > " >> people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) >> and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe >> this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find >> the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile >> >> Jo >> >> >> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> >>> peter VV <swpgh01 >>> Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >>> RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >>> >>> >>> >>> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >>> by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >>> forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my >dismay,a >>> rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel >welcome, >>> and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >>> to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >>> Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater >( >>> >> not >> >>> that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont >>> >> know, >> >>> certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. >>> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. >>> >>> The Valley Vegan............... >>> >>> Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: >>> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >>> and >>> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >>> and >>> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >>> >>> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >>> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >>> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along >to >>> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >>> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent >too! >>> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not >>> >> get >> >>> that at all. >>> >>> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, >but >>> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >>> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend >>> >> them >> >>> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they >were >>> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >>> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. >>> >>> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >>> >> go >> >>> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >>> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >>> to >>> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >>> ppl to talk. >>> >>> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >>> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind >>> >> them >> >>> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >>> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >>> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is >just >>> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see >any >>> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >>> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan >for >>> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, >and >>> I >>> can understand that too. >>> >>> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >>> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did >not >>> like them. >>> >>> Lesley >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> On Behalf >>> Of >>> mav lists >>> 25 November 2006 19:19 >>> >>> Re: Re: Not cheezly >>> >>> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >>> >>>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >>>> >>> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >>> >> >> >>> explain an opinion as being on principle. >>> >>> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on > >>> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >>> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one >I >>> >> >> >>> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >>> >>> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >>> >>> Michael. >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Has anyone looked into their Myers-Briggs type? I used to come out on it as ENFJ, but I more recently did it and got ESFJ, which is also OK with me. I'm not a number 4 anyway, I'm sure of that, although might well come across that way among omnivores. It's not how I am among vegans. Lesley On Behalf Of Jo Kimberley 26 November 2006 07:45 Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... I'm a mix between no 2 & 3 depending on my mood and what time of day its etc Why would the no 4's be interested in joining a group specifically created for social reasons? (Maybe you should rename your group " Don't expect too much conversation as we're thoughtful, quiet vegans " ( or make it clear to people) then people looking for friendly,sociable vegans may have second thoughts about going I find there are quite a lot of no 4 personality types, >-- Original Message -- > >James H <james >Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:08:58 +0000 >Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >But there's different vegan stereotypes isn't there. Here's what I've >come across so far: > > 1. Boring librarian type > 2. Zany extravagent type > 3. Mellow hippy type > 4. Thoughtful, quiet ('unsociable') type > >Hope I haven't missed any stereotypes. > >Which strain are you (anyone)? Go on - pigeon hole yourself!! > >I think if I'm probably a number 4. (If we're all number 4's, it could >explain why this list is so quiet sometimes!...) > >Cheers, >James > > > >Jo Kimberley wrote: >> Peter, >> >> I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable > " >> people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) >> and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe >> this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find >> the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile >> >> Jo >> >> >> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> >>> peter VV <swpgh01 >>> Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >>> RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >>> >>> >>> >>> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >>> by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >>> forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my >dismay,a >>> rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel >welcome, >>> and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >>> to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >>> Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater >( >>> >> not >> >>> that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont >>> >> know, >> >>> certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. >>> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. >>> >>> The Valley Vegan............... >>> >>> Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: >>> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >>> and >>> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >>> and >>> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >>> >>> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >>> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >>> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along >to >>> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >>> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent >too! >>> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not >>> >> get >> >>> that at all. >>> >>> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, >but >>> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >>> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend >>> >> them >> >>> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they >were >>> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >>> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. >>> >>> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >>> >> go >> >>> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >>> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >>> to >>> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >>> ppl to talk. >>> >>> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >>> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind >>> >> them >> >>> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >>> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >>> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is >just >>> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see >any >>> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >>> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan >for >>> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, >and >>> I >>> can understand that too. >>> >>> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >>> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did >not >>> like them. >>> >>> Lesley >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> On Behalf >>> Of >>> mav lists >>> 25 November 2006 19:19 >>> >>> Re: Re: Not cheezly >>> >>> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >>> >>>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >>>> >>> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >>> >> >> >>> explain an opinion as being on principle. >>> >>> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on > >>> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >>> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one >I >>> >> >> >>> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >>> >>> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >>> >>> Michael. >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 What I find a bit weird is that a vegan would say such a thing about her fellow vegans, the company of omnis more " worthwhile " ? Jo, what does this mean exactly, and how do you mean " stimulating " , can you elaborate, explain a bit more about that? I'm sorry to have to say something negative, I don't want to be mean to you, but I do have strong feelings about vegan loyalty and it came across (to me anyway) as a bit disloyal to other vegans who share your compassionate outlook. It actually sounds like in some way you are favouring people who just don't give a damn mostly and are basically not such good people! You know exactly what cruelty these people mostly knowingly support, how can you say they are in some way preferable to vegans? Obviously it's a good and useful thing to mix with them if only to influence them, good for you doing that, I try with my kids schools parents associations to mix a bit with omnis even though I find it hard-going, but to actually " prefer " them over vegans, that is beyond my understanding! I don't prefer being around them, they eat animals, which to me is a most terrible thing, and I see them as basically pretty barbaric people for doing that, but I hide it well how I really feel, and just get on with life. I regard it as my duty to make vegans visible within the wider community and get them to become a bit more aware and vegan-friendly at the schools! At one time I just hid away totally from these people, but decided that was not a good thing for spreading veganism. I must add that I've found a few very good vegan friends locally, I don't find vegans any different from anyone else in terms of sociable-ness. I think it's just that most people are not very friendly and this is reflected in the number of vegans who express interest and then never join us. I think I would find this with any group or special interest, most people are sleeping members, only a few make a real commitment. I did not mean to imply that vegans were worse than anyone else for being a bit of a let down when you are trying to organise a group for mutual support between like-minded people. It happens with any groups people organise I'm sure! Some people are shy too, as for me I am a lot more shy and reserved around omnis, I'm basically not all that comfortable with them, although I am getting better at going through the motions, so I am probably a bit of a split personality, depends who I am around, I think I am much more confident and outgoing and happy among vegans and to some degree vegetarians. Is anyone else like that or is it just me? Lesley _____ On Behalf Of peter VV 25 November 2006 22:18 RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... Wierd isnt it? The Valley Vegan............. Jo Kimberley <Kimberley1@tinyonli <Kimberley1%40tinyonline.co.uk> ne.co.uk> wrote: Peter, I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable " people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile Jo >-- Original Message -- >@ <%40> .com >peter VV >Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >@ <%40> .com > > >Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my dismay,a >rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel welcome, >and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater ( not >that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont know, >certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. > I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. > > The Valley Vegan............... > >Lesley Dove wrote: > The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >and >it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >and >just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. > >I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to >meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! >Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not get >that at all. > >I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but >of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend them >and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were >interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. > >This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these go >through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >to >get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >ppl to talk. > >As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind them >at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is just >a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any >good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for >years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and >I >can understand that too. > >So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not >like them. > >Lesley > >_____ > >@ <%40> .com [@ <%40> .com] On Behalf >Of >mav lists >25 November 2006 19:19 >@ <%40> .com >Re: Re: Not cheezly > >On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. > >Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >explain an opinion as being on principle. > >Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on >what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I >do not understand so was hoping others might explain. > >Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? > >Michael. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Another thought, maybe a lot of vegans who have felt isolated as vegans for quite a while do not seem very sociable precisely because of how the world has treated them as vegans, maybe they have felt isolated because of their veganism, eg excluded from works Christmas meals out, they find it such a hassle getting catered for, or they constantly get the Spanish inquisition for their diet and treated like a bit of a freak, so they give up bothering to be sociable, as it can be too much hassle being different? It could be just a case of helping and supporting some vegans in getting back into the mindset of " being sociable " once they find a vegan group in their area. It can take people time to adjust from the isolation caused by being vegan. Don't underestimate the effect on some people of being so different in their diet from the mainstream. We all know veganism should be pretty much part of the mainstream by now but the reality is as I have found with omnis at my kids schools, most of these ppl do not have the slightest clue and always offer you something unsuitable. I was at the parents association quiz night and got offered parmesan bread sticks the other night even after discussing with them beforehand and bringing my own pizza, and paying less than all the others whose food was included with the ticket (vegan pizza was out of the question for them to do as they were getting supermarket pizzas). This woman was trying to be helpful and brought along these breadsticks and hummus especially for me Maybe also it would be the case that quiet thoughtful serious types are more likely to become vegan? Some people even say certain star signs are more likely to be vegan, I don't believe in that, but I am always intrigued by the whole personality types thing. Could be James' type 4 personality is both a cause and an effect of veganism. The solution being that those who are not type 4s (especially the type 2s, the really outgoing ones) need to be more proactive in setting up groups, then those vegans who are not " natural " type 4s can get involved and become their true selves again, at least among those they fit in with as vegans! Anyway enough of my ramblings, I am meant to be getting us ready to go to the vegan families party, mustn't be late! Lesley On Behalf Of Jo Kimberley 26 November 2006 07:45 Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... I'm a mix between no 2 & 3 depending on my mood and what time of day its etc Why would the no 4's be interested in joining a group specifically created for social reasons? (Maybe you should rename your group " Don't expect too much conversation as we're thoughtful, quiet vegans " ( or make it clear to people) then people looking for friendly,sociable vegans may have second thoughts about going I find there are quite a lot of no 4 personality types, >-- Original Message -- > >James H <james >Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:08:58 +0000 >Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >But there's different vegan stereotypes isn't there. Here's what I've >come across so far: > > 1. Boring librarian type > 2. Zany extravagent type > 3. Mellow hippy type > 4. Thoughtful, quiet ('unsociable') type > >Hope I haven't missed any stereotypes. > >Which strain are you (anyone)? Go on - pigeon hole yourself!! > >I think if I'm probably a number 4. (If we're all number 4's, it could >explain why this list is so quiet sometimes!...) > >Cheers, >James > > > >Jo Kimberley wrote: >> Peter, >> >> I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable > " >> people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) >> and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe >> this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find >> the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile >> >> Jo >> >> >> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> >>> peter VV <swpgh01 >>> Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >>> RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >>> >>> >>> >>> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >>> by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >>> forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my >dismay,a >>> rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel >welcome, >>> and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >>> to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >>> Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater >( >>> >> not >> >>> that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont >>> >> know, >> >>> certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. >>> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. >>> >>> The Valley Vegan............... >>> >>> Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: >>> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >>> and >>> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >>> and >>> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >>> >>> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >>> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >>> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along >to >>> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >>> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent >too! >>> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not >>> >> get >> >>> that at all. >>> >>> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, >but >>> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >>> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend >>> >> them >> >>> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they >were >>> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >>> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. >>> >>> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >>> >> go >> >>> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >>> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >>> to >>> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >>> ppl to talk. >>> >>> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >>> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind >>> >> them >> >>> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >>> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >>> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is >just >>> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see >any >>> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >>> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan >for >>> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, >and >>> I >>> can understand that too. >>> >>> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >>> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did >not >>> like them. >>> >>> Lesley >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> On Behalf >>> Of >>> mav lists >>> 25 November 2006 19:19 >>> >>> Re: Re: Not cheezly >>> >>> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >>> >>>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >>>> >>> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >>> >> >> >>> explain an opinion as being on principle. >>> >>> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on > >>> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >>> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one >I >>> >> >> >>> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >>> >>> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >>> >>> Michael. >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 On Sunday, November 26, 2006, at 07:45 AM, Jo Kimberley wrote: > Why would the no 4's be interested in joining a group specifically > created > for social reasons? Because number 4s get lonely too? Personally, I am not a number, I am a fre... okay I am a number 4. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 I have absolutley no idea what that is sorry, could you explain please? The Valley Vegan................. Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: Has anyone looked into their Myers-Briggs type? I used to come out on it as ENFJ, but I more recently did it and got ESFJ, which is also OK with me. I'm not a number 4 anyway, I'm sure of that, although might well come across that way among omnivores. It's not how I am among vegans. Lesley On Behalf Of Jo Kimberley 26 November 2006 07:45 Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... I'm a mix between no 2 & 3 depending on my mood and what time of day its etc Why would the no 4's be interested in joining a group specifically created for social reasons? (Maybe you should rename your group " Don't expect too much conversation as we're thoughtful, quiet vegans " ( or make it clear to people) then people looking for friendly,sociable vegans may have second thoughts about going I find there are quite a lot of no 4 personality types, >-- Original Message -- > >James H <james >Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:08:58 +0000 >Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >But there's different vegan stereotypes isn't there. Here's what I've >come across so far: > > 1. Boring librarian type > 2. Zany extravagent type > 3. Mellow hippy type > 4. Thoughtful, quiet ('unsociable') type > >Hope I haven't missed any stereotypes. > >Which strain are you (anyone)? Go on - pigeon hole yourself!! > >I think if I'm probably a number 4. (If we're all number 4's, it could >explain why this list is so quiet sometimes!...) > >Cheers, >James > > > >Jo Kimberley wrote: >> Peter, >> >> I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable > " >> people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) >> and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe >> this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find >> the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile >> >> Jo >> >> >> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> >>> peter VV <swpgh01 >>> Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >>> RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >>> >>> >>> >>> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >>> by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >>> forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my >dismay,a >>> rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel >welcome, >>> and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >>> to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >>> Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater >( >>> >> not >> >>> that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont >>> >> know, >> >>> certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. >>> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. >>> >>> The Valley Vegan............... >>> >>> Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: >>> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >>> and >>> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >>> and >>> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >>> >>> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >>> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >>> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along >to >>> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >>> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent >too! >>> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not >>> >> get >> >>> that at all. >>> >>> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, >but >>> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >>> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend >>> >> them >> >>> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they >were >>> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >>> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. >>> >>> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >>> >> go >> >>> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >>> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >>> to >>> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >>> ppl to talk. >>> >>> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >>> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind >>> >> them >> >>> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >>> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >>> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is >just >>> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see >any >>> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >>> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan >for >>> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, >and >>> I >>> can understand that too. >>> >>> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >>> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did >not >>> like them. >>> >>> Lesley >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> On Behalf >>> Of >>> mav lists >>> 25 November 2006 19:19 >>> >>> Re: Re: Not cheezly >>> >>> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >>> >>>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >>>> >>> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >>> >> >> >>> explain an opinion as being on principle. >>> >>> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on > >>> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >>> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one >I >>> >> >> >>> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >>> >>> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >>> >>> Michael. >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 I would think probablyn No.4 ish more anti-social, but can be loud with it?!?!?!?! I hate pidgeon holes/labels. The Valley Vegan............... James H <james wrote: But there's different vegan stereotypes isn't there. Here's what I've come across so far: 1. Boring librarian type 2. Zany extravagent type 3. Mellow hippy type 4. Thoughtful, quiet ('unsociable') type Hope I haven't missed any stereotypes. Which strain are you (anyone)? Go on - pigeon hole yourself!! I think if I'm probably a number 4. (If we're all number 4's, it could explain why this list is so quiet sometimes!...) Cheers, James Jo Kimberley wrote: > Peter, > > I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable " > people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) > and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe > this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find > the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile > > Jo > > > >> -- Original Message -- >> >> peter VV >> Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >> RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >> >> >> >> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >> by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >> forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my dismay,a >> rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel welcome, >> and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >> to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >> Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater ( >> > not > >> that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont >> > know, > >> certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. >> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. >> >> The Valley Vegan............... >> >> Lesley Dove wrote: >> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >> and >> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >> and >> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >> >> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to >> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! >> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not >> > get > >> that at all. >> >> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but >> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend >> > them > >> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were >> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. >> >> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >> > go > >> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >> to >> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >> ppl to talk. >> >> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind >> > them > >> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is just >> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any >> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for >> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and >> I >> can understand that too. >> >> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not >> like them. >> >> Lesley >> >> _____ >> >> On Behalf >> Of >> mav lists >> 25 November 2006 19:19 >> >> Re: Re: Not cheezly >> >> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >> >>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >>> >> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >> > > >> explain an opinion as being on principle. >> >> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on >> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I >> > > >> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >> >> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >> >> Michael. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hi Lesley, I too have made some close vegan friends, but I have been to a few London Vegans meetings and I've found some of the people there to be unfriendly and the group quite clique,- I don't know if this is because they lack some social skills or maybe they're just shy? Of course I prefer to keep the company of vegans , but when this sort of thing happens to you and you make the effort to go to an event and nobody speaks to you(especially if your on your own!), you think why bother?! and I'm sure I'm not the only person that this has happened to! My time is precious and I like to meet interesting people and have good conversations when I go out and I've had to broaden my horizons and not limit myself to only going out with veggie/vegans.- I want to spread the Vegan message anyway, Why are so many vegans the quiet , unsociable type? Jo >-- Original Message -- > > " Lesley Dove " <Lesley >Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:26:15 -0000 >RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > > > >What I find a bit weird is that a vegan would say such a thing about her >fellow vegans, the company of omnis more " worthwhile " ? Jo, what does this >mean exactly, and how do you mean " stimulating " , can you elaborate, explain >a bit more about that? I'm sorry to have to say something negative, I don't >want to be mean to you, but I do have strong feelings about vegan loyalty >and it came across (to me anyway) as a bit disloyal to other vegans who >share your compassionate outlook. It actually sounds like in some way you >are favouring people who just don't give a damn mostly and are basically >not >such good people! You know exactly what cruelty these people mostly >knowingly support, how can you say they are in some way preferable to >vegans? Obviously it's a good and useful thing to mix with them if only to >influence them, good for you doing that, I try with my kids schools parents >associations to mix a bit with omnis even though I find it hard-going, but >to actually " prefer " them over vegans, that is beyond my understanding! I >don't prefer being around them, they eat animals, which to me is a most >terrible thing, and I see them as basically pretty barbaric people for doing >that, but I hide it well how I really feel, and just get on with life. I >regard it as my duty to make vegans visible within the wider community and >get them to become a bit more aware and vegan-friendly at the schools! At >one time I just hid away totally from these people, but decided that was >not >a good thing for spreading veganism. > > > >I must add that I've found a few very good vegan friends locally, I don't >find vegans any different from anyone else in terms of sociable-ness. I >think it's just that most people are not very friendly and this is reflected >in the number of vegans who express interest and then never join us. I think >I would find this with any group or special interest, most people are >sleeping members, only a few make a real commitment. > > > >I did not mean to imply that vegans were worse than anyone else for being >a >bit of a let down when you are trying to organise a group for mutual support >between like-minded people. It happens with any groups people organise I'm >sure! > > > >Some people are shy too, as for me I am a lot more shy and reserved around >omnis, I'm basically not all that comfortable with them, although I am >getting better at going through the motions, so I am probably a bit of a >split personality, depends who I am around, I think I am much more confident >and outgoing and happy among vegans and to some degree vegetarians. Is >anyone else like that or is it just me? > > > >Lesley > > > > > > _____ > > On Behalf >Of >peter VV >25 November 2006 22:18 > >RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >Wierd isnt it? > >The Valley Vegan............. > >Jo Kimberley <Kimberley1@tinyonli <Kimberley1%40tinyonline.co.uk> >ne.co.uk> wrote: >Peter, > >I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable " >people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) >and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe >this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find >the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile > >Jo > >>-- Original Message -- >>@ <%40> .com >>peter VV >>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >>RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >>@ <%40> .com >> >> >>Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff >organised >>by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >>forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my >dismay,a >>rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel >welcome, >>and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >>to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >>Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater ( >not >>that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont >know, >>certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. >> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. >> >> The Valley Vegan............... >> >>Lesley Dove wrote: >> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >>and >>it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >>and >>just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >> >>I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >>and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >>towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to >>meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >>for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! >>Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not >get >>that at all. >> >>I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but >>of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >>apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend >them >>and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were >>interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >>they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or >campaigning. >> >>This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >go >>through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >>people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >>to >>get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >>ppl to talk. >> >>As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >>substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind >them >>at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >>personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >>husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is just >>a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any >>good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >>some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for >>years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and >>I >>can understand that too. >> >>So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >>analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not >>like them. >> >>Lesley >> >>_____ >> >>@ <%40> .com >[@ <%40> .com] On >Behalf >>Of >>mav lists >>25 November 2006 19:19 >>@ <%40> .com >>Re: Re: Not cheezly >> >>On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >> >>Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to > >>explain an opinion as being on principle. >> >>Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on >>what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >>position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I > >>do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >> >>Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >> >>Michael. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Hi, Personally, most of those whose company I prefer most are not vegans. But I would enjoy their company all the more if they were vegan as well. But of course this is going to happen. Vegans are a small subset of humanity. People whose company we enjoy are another small subset. Chances are then that the two are rarely the same. And in addition, most of our closest friends tend to be those made in childhood, when - speaking personally - I wasn't a vegan, let alone expecting my friends to be. So clearly then these, my closest friends, are not, for the most, vegan. John - " peter VV " <swpgh01 Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:32 PM RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff > organised by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very > much looking forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I > found to my dismay,a rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing > to make us feel welcome, and we had to park ourselves at the end of their > table and dispite trying to talk to the group, only one or two decided to > engage us in conversation. Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes > presence as a meat eater ( not that night ), or maybe they just werent > interested in new vegans I dont know, certainly one or two looked down > their noses at us. > I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more > friendly. > > The Valley Vegan............... > > Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: > The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very > frustrating, and > it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet > and > just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. > > I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie > and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working > towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to > meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and > appeals > for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! > Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not > get > that at all. > > I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, but > of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their > apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend > them > and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were > interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like > they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or > campaigning. > > This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these go > through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if > people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise > to > get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for > getting > ppl to talk. > > As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese > substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind > them > at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just > personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My > husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is > just > a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see any > good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help > some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan for > years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and > I > can understand that too. > > So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like > analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did not > like them. > > Lesley > > _____ > > On Behalf > Of > mav lists > 25 November 2006 19:19 > > Re: Re: Not cheezly > > On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. > > Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to > explain an opinion as being on principle. > > Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on > what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a > position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I > do not understand so was hoping others might explain. > > Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? > > Michael. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 yes, Most of the omnivores I mix with are old friends and only a few new ones, Jo >-- Original Message -- > > " John Davis " <mcxg46 >Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:45:48 -0000 >Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >Hi, > >Personally, most of those whose company I prefer most are not vegans. But >I >would enjoy their company all the more if they were vegan as well. > >But of course this is going to happen. Vegans are a small subset of >humanity. People whose company we enjoy are another small subset. Chances > >are then that the two are rarely the same. > >And in addition, most of our closest friends tend to be those made in >childhood, when - speaking personally - I wasn't a vegan, let alone >expecting my friends to be. So clearly then these, my closest friends, are > >not, for the most, vegan. > >John > > > >- > " peter VV " <swpgh01 > >Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:32 PM >RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > >> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff >> organised by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very > >> much looking forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I > >> found to my dismay,a rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing > >> to make us feel welcome, and we had to park ourselves at the end of their > >> table and dispite trying to talk to the group, only one or two decided >to >> engage us in conversation. Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes > >> presence as a meat eater ( not that night ), or maybe they just werent > >> interested in new vegans I dont know, certainly one or two looked down > >> their noses at us. >> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more >> friendly. >> >> The Valley Vegan............... >> >> Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: >> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very >> frustrating, and >> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet > >> and >> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >> >> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to >> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and >> appeals >> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! >> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not > >> get >> that at all. >> >> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, >but >> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend > >> them >> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were >> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or >> campaigning. >> >> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >go >> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise > >> to >> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for >> getting >> ppl to talk. >> >> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind > >> them >> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is > >> just >> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see >any >> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan >for >> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and > >> I >> can understand that too. >> >> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did >not >> like them. >> >> Lesley >> >> _____ >> >> On Behalf > >> Of >> mav lists >> 25 November 2006 19:19 >> >> Re: Re: Not cheezly >> >> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >> >> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >> explain an opinion as being on principle. >> >> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on >> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I >> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >> >> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >> >> Michael. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 I don't really have any very old friends such as people I went to school with in my life, haven't for a long time, I moved away from the area I was brought up, and moved around quite a few times over the years, so only count as friends quite new people in my life, mostly veggie or vegan, although one or two omnis. I do regret slightly losing touch with one or two of them but regret more losing touch with old veggie/vegan friends I met in my early years as a veggie and vegan. I did drift away from old friends a lot when I went veggie, because of their attitudes. Just started getting into animal rights and veggie groups and also other groups like a CND group. My best friend for much of my childhood not only did not care about the suffering of animals for her diet, and did not care about any of the things I was starting to care about. Worst of all she even ended up marrying a man who worked in a slaughterhouse. I seriously could not associate with her any more once she started going out with him, that was the deal breaker, rather than the issue of her not being veggie, that she could go out with someone who could be totally callous to animals. Lesley On Behalf Of Jo Kimberley 27 November 2006 18:59 Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... yes, Most of the omnivores I mix with are old friends and only a few new ones, Jo >-- Original Message -- > > " John Davis " <mcxg46 >Mon, 27 Nov 2006 09:45:48 -0000 >Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > > >Hi, > >Personally, most of those whose company I prefer most are not vegans. But >I >would enjoy their company all the more if they were vegan as well. > >But of course this is going to happen. Vegans are a small subset of >humanity. People whose company we enjoy are another small subset. Chances > >are then that the two are rarely the same. > >And in addition, most of our closest friends tend to be those made in >childhood, when - speaking personally - I wasn't a vegan, let alone >expecting my friends to be. So clearly then these, my closest friends, are > >not, for the most, vegan. > >John > > > >- > " peter VV " <swpgh01 > >Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:32 PM >RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... > > >> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff >> organised by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very > >> much looking forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I > >> found to my dismay,a rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing > >> to make us feel welcome, and we had to park ourselves at the end of their > >> table and dispite trying to talk to the group, only one or two decided >to >> engage us in conversation. Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes > >> presence as a meat eater ( not that night ), or maybe they just werent > >> interested in new vegans I dont know, certainly one or two looked down > >> their noses at us. >> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more >> friendly. >> >> The Valley Vegan............... >> >> Lesley Dove <Lesley wrote: >> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very >> frustrating, and >> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet > >> and >> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >> >> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along to >> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and >> appeals >> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent too! >> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not > >> get >> that at all. >> >> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, >but >> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend > >> them >> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they were >> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or >> campaigning. >> >> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >go >> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise > >> to >> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for >> getting >> ppl to talk. >> >> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind > >> them >> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is > >> just >> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see >any >> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan >for >> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, and > >> I >> can understand that too. >> >> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did >not >> like them. >> >> Lesley >> >> _____ >> >> On Behalf > >> Of >> mav lists >> 25 November 2006 19:19 >> >> Re: Re: Not cheezly >> >> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >> >> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >> explain an opinion as being on principle. >> >> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on >> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one I >> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >> >> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >> >> Michael. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 There are quite a few sites about it, you can take online test for personality type, it's a bit of fun anyway. I think a load of us on this group did it a while back, http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm Lesley _____ On Behalf Of peter VV 26 November 2006 18:25 RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... I have absolutley no idea what that is sorry, could you explain please? The Valley Vegan................. Lesley Dove <Lesley (AT) vegan4life (DOT) <Lesley%40vegan4life.org.uk> org.uk> wrote: Has anyone looked into their Myers-Briggs type? I used to come out on it as ENFJ, but I more recently did it and got ESFJ, which is also OK with me. I'm not a number 4 anyway, I'm sure of that, although might well come across that way among omnivores. It's not how I am among vegans. Lesley @ <%40> .com [@ <%40> .com] On Behalf Of Jo Kimberley 26 November 2006 07:45 @ <%40> .com Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... I'm a mix between no 2 & 3 depending on my mood and what time of day its etc Why would the no 4's be interested in joining a group specifically created for social reasons? (Maybe you should rename your group " Don't expect too much conversation as we're thoughtful, quiet vegans " ( or make it clear to people) then people looking for friendly,sociable vegans may have second thoughts about going I find there are quite a lot of no 4 personality types, >-- Original Message -- >@ <%40> .com >James H <james (AT) telestial (DOT) <james%40telestial.org> org> >Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:08:58 +0000 >Re: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >@ <%40> .com > > >But there's different vegan stereotypes isn't there. Here's what I've >come across so far: > > 1. Boring librarian type > 2. Zany extravagent type > 3. Mellow hippy type > 4. Thoughtful, quiet ('unsociable') type > >Hope I haven't missed any stereotypes. > >Which strain are you (anyone)? Go on - pigeon hole yourself!! > >I think if I'm probably a number 4. (If we're all number 4's, it could >explain why this list is so quiet sometimes!...) > >Cheers, >James > > > >Jo Kimberley wrote: >> Peter, >> >> I've experienced a similar problem ,- vegans aren't the most " sociable > " >> people ,- ( sadly, even amongst themselves) >> and its put me of going to some future vegan social gatherings. But maybe >> this is just a kind of English reserve or personality trait? ,- but I find >> the company of omnivores sometimes more stimulating and worthwhile >> >> Jo >> >> >> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> @ <%40> .com >>> peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) <swpgh01%40talk21.com> com> >>> Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:32:11 +0000 (GMT) >>> RE: Re: Not cheezly/ignorance is not bliss...... >>> @ <%40> .com >>> >>> >>> Last christmas I dragged my carnie wife along to a meal in Cardiff organised >>> by the eat out vegan wales people, and beforehand I was very much looking >>> forward to meeting all these likeminded people. However, I found to my >dismay,a >>> rather closed insular little clique, that did nothing to make us feel >welcome, >>> and we had to park ourselves at the end of their table and dispite trying >>> to talk to the group, only one or two decided to engage us in conversation. >>> Very sad, perhaps they did not like my wifes presence as a meat eater >( >>> >> not >> >>> that night ), or maybe they just werent interested in new vegans I dont >>> >> know, >> >>> certainly one or two looked down their noses at us. >>> I just hope that other vegan groups social events are a bit more friendly. >>> >>> The Valley Vegan............... >>> >>> Lesley Dove <Lesley (AT) vegan4life (DOT) <Lesley%40vegan4life.org.uk> org.uk> wrote: >>> The silently ignoring one another thing, it is really very frustrating, >>> and >>> it sounds to me like you were frustrated with this group being too quiet >>> and >>> just wanted to get people a bit more actively talking. >>> >>> I'm going through the same problem locally, trying to get an active veggie >>> and vegan group going, social mainly to begin with and hopefully working >>> towards adding in some activism, but most people I email to ask along >to >>> meet up do nothing, and worst of all silently ignore my invites and appeals >>> for support! Most of those who joined up to my are silent >too! >>> Then there are a few who post but never come to meet ups, I just do not >>> >> get >> >>> that at all. >>> >>> I feel like sending a really pissed off email to some of these people, >but >>> of course I won't do that, I suppose I will just silently fume about their >>> apathy, and keep on as before otherwise, because I don't want to offend >>> >> them >> >>> and scare them off altogether, but they are people who have said they >were >>> interested in a local veggie and vegan group and yet they do not act like >>> they are interested at all in doing anything either socially or campaigning. >>> >>> This group used to be very busy at one time, I think these >>> >> go >> >>> through phases of being quiet after being busy. Maybe it would help if >>> people posted where they are in the UK and if they would like to organise >>> to >>> get together with other vegans in their area. Just a suggestion for getting >>> ppl to talk. >>> >>> As for the discussion in hand, I am just fine with vegan meat/cheese >>> substitutes, so long as it is not the real animal product, I don't mind >>> >> them >> >>> at all. I personally like some of them more than others, but that's just >>> personal taste. I'm a big fan of the Fry's range and so are my kids. My >>> husband never liked meat so does not like fake meat, but again that is >just >>> a personal taste thing and he does like cheezly. Like you I do not see >any >>> good reason on principle to be against analogues, especially if they help >>> some people to go vegetarian or vegan. Some people who have been vegan >for >>> years find they don't like anything that tastes like animal products, >and >>> I >>> can understand that too. >>> >>> So I don't know the answer as to why anyone would on principle not like >>> analogues, sorry, but I'm not sure Peter said he was, just that he did >not >>> like them. >>> >>> Lesley >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> @ <%40> .com [@ <%40> .com] On Behalf >>> Of >>> mav lists >>> 25 November 2006 19:19 >>> @ <%40> .com >>> Re: Re: Not cheezly >>> >>> On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, nejmai wrote: >>> >>>> Did the op mean that they were ethically/philosophically opposed to >>>> analogues? Perhaps they just don't like the taste. >>>> >>> Maybe it is just me, but I understand the phrase " any shape or form " to >>> >> >> >>> explain an opinion as being on principle. >>> >>> Anyway I was only trying to use Peter's comment to launch a debate on > >>> what must be a common vegan issue. Many others do hold such a >>> position, I am sure, whether or not Peter himself does, and it is one >I >>> >> >> >>> do not understand so was hoping others might explain. >>> >>> Alternatively we could all just silently ignore each other as usual? >>> >>> Michael. >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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