Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 ovo lacto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the group: What kind of vegetarian are you? o Semi-vegetarian (eat chicken/fish) o Ova-lacto vegetarian (no animals) o Vegan (no animal products) o Raw/Living Foodist o Fruitarian To vote, please visit the following web page: /surveys?id=1256509 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the web site listed above. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 said: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > group: > > What kind of vegetarian are you? > > o Semi-vegetarian (eat chicken/fish) > o Ova-lacto vegetarian (no animals) > o Vegan (no animal products) > o Raw/Living Foodist > o Fruitarian There was no place to put that I'm not a vegetarian, so I didn't vote. serene, almost vegetarian, but not quite -- My cooking project: http://www.livejournal.com/users/serenefood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Thanks, Serene! I didn't think of that, sorry. And I do really appreciate every respond. Being almost vegetarian is quite a good approach compared to being not vegetarian at all. I know some people cut meat for health reasons, others for ethical or religious reasons. We started to become vegetarians through living kosher. I either replaced the meat or the cheese in some recipes through soy products, until I found out one day, we hardly eat any meat any more. In the beginning, we still had fish once in a while, but when we saw a documentary on how fish are cut, we got very upset and disgusted. What haunts me...and this is a question I always wanted to ask: We do wear leather shoes. My son reminded me of that (he is on his way to become vegan, so I have cut out the eggs in our diet as well, and no diary products for him, but I'm still a cheese addict) What about wearing leather? , " serene " <serene@s...> wrote: > serene, almost vegetarian, but not quite > -- > My cooking project: http://www.livejournal.com/users/serenefood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Gabriella said: > Thanks, Serene! I didn't think of that, sorry. > And I do really appreciate every respond. > Being almost vegetarian is quite a good approach compared to being > not vegetarian at all. I was a vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for 2 of those, but I went omnivore about a year ago. Now we're heading back towards vegetarianism. The partner I live with doesn't care what we eat, and I prefer how I feel when I don't eat animal products. > What haunts me...and this is a question I always wanted to ask: We do > wear leather shoes. > My son reminded me of that (he is on his way to become vegan, so I > have cut out the eggs in our diet as well, and no diary products for > him, but I'm still a cheese addict) > What about wearing leather? I don't wear leather. I wear non-leather Birkenstocks and other non-leather shoes. There's a good site at http://vegetarian-shoes.co.uk if you're interested. serene -- My cooking project: http://www.livejournal.com/users/serenefood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I'm pesco-vegetarian: I eat modest amounts of fish, some of which I catch myself, but no meat or poultry. > What haunts me...and this is a question I always wanted to ask: We > do wear leather shoes. Well, vegetarianism's not an animal-rights thing with me, so that makes it simpler; I don't object morally to killing in order to eat. All nature does that in one way or another, and IMH but not isolated O, we humans are not separate from the cycle. And since the majority of the world's people aren't vegetarian, it's a fact that cows are going to die and be eaten. So the question is, what becomes of their skins if they aren't made into leather? I don't know; maybe they wind up ground into " meat byproducts " for petfood or livestock feed? But I think leathermaking's as legitimate a use as that is, and less wasteful than dumping all those hides, so I do wear leather without qualm. <non-Jewish religious content coming up; please skip this section if that bothers you.> For us Pagans, there's a way to deal with that situation anyway: when we buy something made of leather, or when those who eat it buy meat, many or most of us do a small ritual to honor the animal's life and thank it for its death. Then we wish it a good and happy reincarnation. I've even known those who believe in cross-species reincarnation to make the animal this promise: that if it ever comes back as a person and they ever come back as meat animals, it can have _their_ skins to wear and/or meat to eat.. I like that; it probably sounds odd or even icky to non-Pagans, but I think it honors the connection of all life in a very realistic and fair way. And I think a fine ritual for Pagan or non-Pagan alike would be to honor and thank the animal from whom one's new shoes or purse came with a brief prayer, and then, if one can, _send a buck or two to an animal-welfare or environmental charity_. That seems to me to keep the balance pretty well. Rain @@@@ \\\\\\ ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Thanks a lot, Selene!! Gabriella > I don't wear leather. I wear non-leather Birkenstocks and other > non-leather shoes. There's a good site at > http://vegetarian-shoes.co.uk if you're interested. > > serene > -- > My cooking project: http://www.livejournal.com/users/serenefood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Hi Rain! Thank you very much for your long and interesting respond! I do understand your point and I assume, for most vegetarians not eating meat is not connected to the question of animal rights, but rather a question of right or better nutrition. The point is however: if more and more people switch to not eating meat, where will the leather come from? Slaughter animals to wear them...hat goes into the categorie of wearing furs, doesn't it?) Being Jewish includes for me the respect for life and not to participate in animal killing - although I did not start out as a vegetaria -as I already mentioned in my last posting. This list is however open to everybody, so, " non-Jewish " contents do not " bother " me - and I hope everyone here is open minded enough for every kind of discussion. And reading about your theory of incarnation in the Paganistic sense - this did rather sound non-Pagan to me. (Which proves how little I still know) Warm regards, Gabriella , raincrone@j... wrote: > I'm pesco-vegetarian: I eat modest amounts of fish, some of which I > catch myself, but no meat or poultry. > > > What haunts me...and this is a question I always wanted to ask: We > > do wear leather shoes. > > Well, vegetarianism's not an animal-rights thing with me, so that makes > it simpler; I don't object morally to killing in order to eat. All > nature does > that in one way or another, and IMH but not isolated O, we humans are > not separate from the cycle. > > And since the majority of the world's people aren't vegetarian, it's a > fact that cows are going to die and be eaten. So the question is, > what becomes of their skins if they aren't made into leather? I don't > know; maybe they wind up ground into " meat byproducts " for > petfood or livestock feed? But I think leathermaking's as legitimate > a use as that is, and less wasteful than dumping all those hides, so I do > wear leather without qualm. > > <non-Jewish religious content coming up; please skip this section if > that bothers you.> > > For us Pagans, there's a way to deal with that situation anyway: > when we buy something made of leather, or when those who eat it > buy meat, many or most of us do a small ritual to honor the animal's > life and thank it for its death. Then we wish it a good and happy > reincarnation. I've even known those who believe in cross-species > reincarnation to make the animal this promise: that if it ever comes > back as a person and they ever come back as meat animals, it can > have _their_ skins to wear and/or meat to eat.. I like that; it > probably > sounds odd or even icky to non-Pagans, but I think it honors the > connection of all life in a very realistic and fair way. > > And I think a fine ritual for Pagan or non-Pagan alike would be to > honor and thank the animal from whom one's new shoes or purse > came with a brief prayer, and then, if one can, _send a buck or two > to an animal-welfare or environmental charity_. That seems to me > to keep the balance pretty well. > > Rain > @@@@ > \\\\\\ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 > I assume, for most vegetarians not > eating meat is not connected to the question of > animal rights, but > rather a question of right or better nutrition. I'm still trying to rationalize why I still choose to be a vegetarian. I think it is now a matter of principle. Animal rights was one of the reasons, but then I had a difficult time justifying being an ovo-lacto vegetarian rather than a vegan. Now, more than anything, all the news reports about e-coli, salmonella, mad cow disease, etc., keep me from eating animals (yet I'm still ovo-lacto). Also, my tendancy toward high cholestol also keeps me from eating animals. > > > What haunts me...and this is a question I always > wanted to ask: > We do wear leather shoes... But I think > leathermaking's less wasteful than dumping > all those hides, so I do wear leather without qualm. I refused to wear leather at first. The only stores where I could find non-leather shoes were places like K-mart, Meijer, and other low price stores. The shoes were usually poor quality. After a while, they really started to hurt my feet, so I had to go back to wearing leather shoes. So now I rationalize that the cow has already been killed, and the hides will go to waste if no one wears the leather (of course, since I don't eat the meat, I don't contribute to the killing of the cow - that's what I tell myself, though I know it's not true). > I don't object morally to killing in order to eat. I agree. Humans are meant to eat meat. I do, however, strongly object to killing for sport. To find enjoyment in causing an animal pain is disgusting! (Yes, I cheer when I hear of hunters who get shot. I don't believe that the typical hunter is doing it because he needs the food. Most hunt because they enjoy it. Sorry... I get riled up when I think of or hear of hunters.) SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 > The point is however: if more and more people switch to not eating > meat, where will the leather come from? From cows slaughtered for those who still do. I very much doubt vegetarianism will ever be universal; there are too many people who like meat, and some who depend on hunting to live. > Slaughter animals to wear them...hat goes into the categorie of > wearing furs, doesn't it?) Not to wear them, to _eat_ them. Ethically speaking, once you allow killing to eat, the leather, bone and such should logically be used up so as not to waste them. Most fur animals aren't eaten, which means they're killed solely for their skins. Which isn't different to someone who opposes all killing of animals for human use, but is at least somewhat so to many of us who don't. >reading about your theory of incarnation in the Paganistic sense > this did rather sound non-Pagan to me. How so? You do understand that I'm not using " Pagan " in the old small-P 19th-century sense that means non- or anti-religious, don't you? And that modern Pagans. . .the members of the modern Goddess and polytheist religions like Wicca and Druidry, who number about four million in the US and growing. . .do mostly believe in reincarnation? Rain @@@@ \\\\\\ ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 > (Yes, I cheer when I hear of hunters who get shot. Then you would cheer at the shooting of my brothers and several of my dearest friends. I mean no offense, but please tell me how that accords with a respect for all life. >I don't believe that the typical hunter is doing it because he needs >the food. Perhaps in your part of the country; not in mine, where it's mainly the poor who hunt. But either way, should it really be a shooting offense? And even if you still think it should be, when you're cheering the shooting of a hunter, how do you know if s/he or someone in h/er family needed the protein or not? When I was newly disabled, not yet getting disability (which takes months or years here) and trying to subsist on $120-$140 a month in emergency assistance, I still ate meat, and my eldest brother, also very poor at that time but ablebodied, kept me fed some of that time by hunting and fishing; if someone had shot him, besides the grief I'd've felt, I'd then have had to find a way to haul myself, desperately ill and barely able to walk many days, out to stand in line at soup kitchens. If you sincerely think that was a better option than his killing some squirrels, then peace be unto you, but I guess I don't understand your definition of respect for life. Rain @@@@ \\\\\\ ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 --- raincrone wrote: > >I don't believe that the typical hunter is doing it > because he needs the food. > > Perhaps in your part of the country; not in mine, > where it's mainly the poor who hunt. I'm so sorry I offended you. Every hunter that I've talked to personally does it for the sport, so I assumed that the majority of hunters do it out of enjoyment. I didn't take into consideration people who are in the unfortunate situation of having to hunt in order to survive, and that it might even be painful to them to have to do so. I truly am sorry for offending you. SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting./ps/sb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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