Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 demo: apart from may be following up on the related vegan or animal issues, i guess this is best off list than on. mrbig: I don`t particularly agree, so I`m gonna post this. If anyone thinks this should not have been posted let me know and I`ll say I`m sorry demo: i dont understand all of this mail. and yes, i probably do put entertaining prose high up on my list of aspirations, to be honest. mrbig: any poetry links? demo: and just to entertain you more, i would fuck off with the profanities on list pervy, if i were you. none were address at you, unless you are an " asshole meateater " . i did not call all meateaters assholes, if you read my mail i was being specific. some meateaters being assholes, others being sweathearts mrbig: I most certainly am not, but my venom towards something I once was is not as self righteous and condeming as it was before. I am not convinced as to what, other than chance, helped me see through my cultural vacuum. demo: you dont need to stoop that low to join me. especially as there will probably be " sensitive types " on a list like this. mrbig: sorry, I rarely hold back no matter who is present. demo: if you cant take back what you give out, dont throw it around. mrbig: I throw more than once and have a big shiney shield, so throw away! demo: please keep flame wars away from this list. apart from a one off ocassion when a few meathead throlls drop by, this list has been made of remarkably flame resistant material. mrbig: I do not just disagree with carnivores. demo: be accurate. sure, if you had used bhagavad gita or " according to some vaishnavites " i would not have picked up on that one. the BG took a long time to be put into writing, it was done so much later than the bible, and had been bollocked about a fair bit by humans before it was. mrbig: indeed. demo: i have reconsidered what i say and stand by it. you judged some's opinions arrogant. i belittled that judgement as " immature " . in the end of the one is either right or wrong. what is absolute nonsense? mrbig: Arogance is inherent in humans, and we all think we are right. How a reaffirmation of this is akin to a stropping kid I do not know. (mrbig ref): Good Luck to you on that one...(demo:the soul is in the middle of the head)....now that is deep!!! How long has your ego spent THINKING about that one?? Am I really annoying you yet???? demo:(to above ref) not at all. you seem to be flipping out about something but i am not too sure what yet. i have not really thought much about it at all. there is not much to think about it. but i have experience conscious separation from the body. the last place i was certainly centred on was in the middle of the head and not in the heart or anywhere else. mrbig: Been there myself, but it is not what I consider to be the soul. demo: i have studied vedanta, practiced yoga and medition seriously for many years. [ as in up at 3.30 every day, no sex, drugs nor anything etc, 2.5 hours mediation a day, non stop, no holidays in a monastic environment. veggie but not vegan ]. i grew up in a family of fairly active psychics my grand was close to the close to the spiritualist church and for some type i trained in healing and mediumship. not something i followed up on. my life has run parallel to most so called spiritual or new age groups over the last 20 odd years. the first time i met the krishnas was in the 60s. i could have signed up with them and was shown real respect by the then spiritual leader. the one then went on to have his head cut off by a follower of his. Tirthpada or something. it was a long time ago. mrbig: I had a friend in my acid days who, (in my humble opinion), lost the plot and found refuge with the Krishnas. No, I don`t particularly admire their ways, my youth in Belfast made me absolutley HATE all dogma, but I believe I have a good understanding of how people get swept into it. demo: the " seat of the soul " , as it is literally called, is somewhere about the area hypothalmus in the centre of the brain. this would make most sense biologically due to the structure of the central nervous system as refered to by another lister. all information goes into this point, all information is sent out of this point. mrbig: A very scientific hypothosis, and whilst I believe science is great for measuring and predicting many things, I think metaphisics is best left to poetry, art and philosophy! demo: as you may know, the path of bhaki yoga centres one's attention solely on the heart chakra. i was waiting for more of the hare krishna's bollock about how the soul is in the heart " because some blue god cut the head off a man and stuck a donkey's head on top of his shoulders and so therefore it is true " . mrbig: No..please do not expect anything like that from me. demo: the trouble with the HKs is that, somewhat similar to the hasidic jews, they were a fundimental revisionist movement that started a few hundred years ago, and no longer got stuck in their time warp and made a business out of it. mrbig: yeah...nothing new there. demo: much of that stuff is meant as metaphor or allegory, as you would accept, but they wont. it is considered almost a heresy by them to do so. i dont make the same accusation about the hasidim. their's is another trip altogether. mrbig: the heresy thing is a common prerequisit of most religion...it`s the magnet that makes the whole thing work...whether it is a sinister plot or not is irrellevant...the lost fish are always caught. (mrbig ref): Yeah, go ahead and slag off the krishnas, they are easy targets...call the meat eaters assholes too!!.... in fact why dont you just slag off anyone who fails through circumstance to be elevated to your " RIGHT " point of view. demo:(to above ref) no emphasis on " my " RIGHT point of vew. only on the absolute and accurate criticism based on fact. why are you so defensive of the HK? mrbig: " Facts all come with points of view " David Byrne. More of a devils advocate than a Krishna defender. demo: i accuse anyone of being arrogant, you did. i said your statement, and not you, was immature. (mrbig ref): But don`t EVER call anyone arrogant!!! mrbig(to above ref): I was being sarcastic about your attack on my view that someones comment was arrogant. I am not the old wise man of the universe, and everthing " I " say IS immature and arrogant, but to say nothing would be pathetic. demo: so i am still confused, what i was right or wrong about? if it is about the HKs being hypocrits about they continued use of factory produced dairy products, i know i am right. the abuse of dairy is purely cultural and not spiritual. more to do with the affectations of wealth and power than enlightenment. mrbig: I concluded that you were right, and I`m sure you agree. >john _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 Didnt understand much of this but it amused me trying to.No wonder people think vegans are wierd.I once asked the H.K.'s where women came in their scheme of things.{they were always at the end of the line as the group danced thro' London]I was told they were below men in importance.I realised then that that religion wasnt good enough for me as i put my female donation back in my pocket .Ive yet to find a religion that is good enough.Jainism/Bhuddism maybe,but I dont have the time to find out.too busy trying to under stand messages!!! - " mr big " <pervyempire <vegan-network > Sunday, March 04, 2001 11:15 AM after the watershed > > demo: > apart from may be following up on the related vegan or animal issues, i > guess this is best off list than on. > > mrbig: > I don`t particularly agree, so I`m gonna post this. If anyone thinks this > should not have been posted let me know and I`ll say I`m sorry > > demo: > i dont understand all of this mail. and yes, i probably do put > entertaining prose high up on my list of aspirations, to be honest. > > mrbig: > any poetry links? > > demo: > and just to entertain you more, i would fuck off with the profanities on > list pervy, if i were you. none were address at you, unless you are an > " asshole meateater " . i did not call all meateaters assholes, if you read > my mail i was being specific. some meateaters being assholes, others > being sweathearts > > mrbig: > I most certainly am not, but my venom towards something I once was is not as > self righteous and condeming as it was before. I am not convinced as to > what, other than chance, helped me see through my cultural vacuum. > > demo: > you dont need to stoop that low to join me. especially as there will > probably be " sensitive types " on a list like this. > > mrbig: > sorry, I rarely hold back no matter who is present. > > demo: > if you cant take back what you give out, dont throw it around. > > mrbig: > I throw more than once and have a big shiney shield, so throw away! > > demo: > please keep flame wars away from this list. apart from a one off ocassion > when a few meathead throlls drop by, this list has been made of > remarkably flame resistant material. > > mrbig: > I do not just disagree with carnivores. > > demo: > be accurate. sure, if you had used bhagavad gita or " according to some > vaishnavites " i would not have picked up on that one. the BG took a long > time to be put into writing, it was done so much later than the bible, > and had been bollocked about a fair bit by humans before it was. > > mrbig: > indeed. > > demo: > i have reconsidered what i say and stand by it. you judged some's > opinions arrogant. i belittled that judgement as " immature " . in the end > of the one is either right or wrong. what is absolute nonsense? > > mrbig: > Arogance is inherent in humans, and we all think we are right. How a > reaffirmation of this is akin to a stropping kid I do not know. > > (mrbig ref): > Good Luck to you on that one...(demo:the soul is in the middle of the > head)....now that is deep!!! How long has your ego spent THINKING > about that one?? Am I really annoying you yet???? > > demo:(to above ref) > not at all. you seem to be flipping out about something but i am not too > sure what yet. i have not really thought much about it at all. there is > not much to think about it. but i have experience conscious separation > from the body. the last place i was certainly centred on was in the > middle of the head and not in the heart or anywhere else. > > mrbig: > Been there myself, but it is not what I consider to be the soul. > > demo: > i have studied vedanta, practiced yoga and medition seriously for many > years. [ as in up at 3.30 every day, no sex, drugs nor anything etc, 2.5 > hours mediation a day, non stop, no holidays in a monastic environment. > veggie but not vegan ]. > > i grew up in a family of fairly active psychics my grand was close to the > close to the spiritualist church and for some type i trained in healing > and mediumship. not something i followed up on. my life has run parallel > to most so called spiritual or new age groups over the last 20 odd years. > the first time i met the krishnas was in the 60s. > > i could have signed up with them and was shown real respect by the then > spiritual leader. the one then went on to have his head cut off by a > follower of his. Tirthpada or something. it was a long time ago. > > mrbig: > I had a friend in my acid days who, (in my humble opinion), lost the plot > and found refuge with the Krishnas. No, I don`t particularly admire their > ways, my youth in Belfast made me absolutley HATE all dogma, but I believe I > have a good understanding of how people get swept into it. > > demo: > the " seat of the soul " , as it is literally called, is somewhere about the > area hypothalmus in the centre of the brain. this would make most sense > biologically due to the structure of the central nervous system as > refered to by another lister. all information goes into this point, all > information is sent out of this point. > > mrbig: > A very scientific hypothosis, and whilst I believe science is great for > measuring and predicting many things, I think metaphisics is best left to > poetry, art and philosophy! > > > demo: > as you may know, the path of bhaki yoga centres one's attention solely on > the heart chakra. i was waiting for more of the hare krishna's bollock > about how the soul is in the heart " because some blue god cut the head > off a man and stuck a donkey's head on top of his shoulders and so > therefore it is true " . > > mrbig: > No..please do not expect anything like that from me. > > > demo: > the trouble with the HKs is that, somewhat similar to the hasidic jews, > they were a fundimental revisionist movement that started a few hundred > years ago, and no longer got stuck in their time warp and made a business > out of it. > > mrbig: > yeah...nothing new there. > > demo: > much of that stuff is meant as metaphor or allegory, as you would accept, > but they wont. it is considered almost a heresy by them to do so. i dont > make the same accusation about the hasidim. their's is another trip > altogether. > > mrbig: > the heresy thing is a common prerequisit of most religion...it`s the magnet > that makes the whole thing work...whether it is a sinister plot or not is > irrellevant...the lost fish are always caught. > > (mrbig ref): > Yeah, go ahead and slag off the krishnas, they are easy > targets...call the meat eaters assholes too!!.... in fact why > dont you just slag off anyone who fails through circumstance > to be elevated to your " RIGHT " point of view. > > demo:(to above ref) > no emphasis on " my " RIGHT point of vew. only on the absolute and > accurate criticism based on fact. why are you so defensive of the HK? > > mrbig: > " Facts all come with points of view " David Byrne. More of a devils advocate > than a Krishna defender. > > demo: > i accuse anyone of being arrogant, you did. i said your statement, and > not you, was immature. > > (mrbig ref): > But don`t EVER call anyone arrogant!!! > > mrbig(to above ref): > I was being sarcastic about your attack on my view that someones comment was > arrogant. I am not the old wise man of the universe, and everthing " I " say > IS immature and arrogant, but to say nothing would be pathetic. > > demo: > so i am still confused, what i was right or wrong about? > if it is about the HKs being hypocrits about they continued use of > factory produced dairy products, i know i am right. the abuse of dairy is > purely cultural and not spiritual. more to do with the affectations of > wealth and power than enlightenment. > > mrbig: > I concluded that you were right, and I`m sure you agree. > > >john > _______________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 >demo: >apart from may be following up on the related vegan or animal issues, i >guess this is best off list than on. > >mrbig: >I don`t particularly agree, so I`m gonna post this. If anyone thinks this >should not have been posted let me know and I`ll say I`m sorry why do you want to sow seeds of discord Mr BiG amongst people who are close allies? i would say that posting a copy of a private and reasoned email on to a list is a serious breach of list etiquette. an attempt to belittle someone else by taking statements out of context. what still confuses me is why you were accusing me of calling someone arrogant when the only person doing so was you. weren't you also the person attacking the " middle class " people on list earlier? is this radicalism and pro-activity as you desire it? >mrbig(to above ref): >I was being sarcastic about your attack on my view that someones comment was >arrogant. I am not the old wise man of the universe, and everthing " I " say >IS immature and arrogant, but to say nothing would be pathetic. if a mail was sent to you private, it is correct and well mannered to reply to it privatly. to copy it on to 100 other people who have no interest in it and to whom it does not refer is at least unconscious. it is certainly wasteful and damaging. what was your intent? was it for the sake of good - or was it out of illwill? by copying my private correspondence to you on to this list you are furthering your attack on people. i took this off list where it belongs. you took it back on list to make the first strike. i would think that most people on suc email list have seen enough of flame wars to find them very boring. really the only comment in reply to you mail i want to make is that the drug experiences you relate to as your " acid days " are the antithesis of true spirituality and spiritual experiences and not to be confused with. this may be part of your problem. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 ? > >i would say that posting a copy of a private and reasoned email on to a >list is a serious breach of list etiquette. an attempt to belittle >someone else by taking statements out of context. I DID NOT QUOTE ANYTHING OUT OF CONTEXT.....I POSTED EVERYTHING THAT WAS SAID! >what still confuses me is why you were accusing me of calling someone >arrogant when the only person doing so was you. I have REALLY tried to make this clear, but I have not accused you of calling anyone arrogant. I was being sarcastic...I`m fully aware that sarcasm does not always come across in text, and I apologise for any trouble I have caused you. I notice also that your grammar is a bit broken. Is english your first language?...are you dislexic? ...or are you American? (would explain for missing the sarcasm) >weren't you also the person attacking the " middle class " people on list >earlier? is this radicalism and pro-activity as you desire it? I did not attack the middle classes...I described my view of them....judging from the views carved up with my drug references this is a largly middle class group...Maybe I`m just an inverted snob? as I said... > >mrbig(to above ref): > >I was being sarcastic about your attack on my view that someones comment >was > >arrogant. I am not the old wise man of the universe, and everthing " I " >say > >IS immature and arrogant, but to say nothing would be pathetic. > >if a mail was sent to you private, it is correct and well mannered to >reply to it privatly. to copy it on to 100 other people who have no >interest in it and to whom it does not refer is at least unconscious. it >is certainly wasteful and damaging. OK...I`m ill mannered...so shoot me. > >what was your intent? was it for the sake of good - or was it out of >illwill? I try and do everything for good...I now understand how seriously misunderstood I am. >by copying my private correspondence to you on to this list you are >furthering your attack on people. i took this off list where it belongs. >you took it back on list to make the first strike. i would think that >most people on suc email list have seen enough of flame wars to find them >very boring. > >really the only comment in reply to you mail i want to make is that the >drug experiences you relate to as your " acid days " are the antithesis of >true spirituality and spiritual experiences and not to be confused with. >this may be part of your problem. Very Wrong John...I take it back...you are arrogant! MrBIg _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 How do you get this idea that anti-drug people are middle class? Seems to me that you make way too many assumptions about people's politics and class from just one viewpoint they hold, I find that insulting. I consider myself fairly classless, have I or anyone else labelled you as low class or " loony left " for your views? I don't think so! Lots of working class people are at least as interested as middle class people in protecting their kids from drugs, and to suggest it is the middle classes who are anti-drugs is an insult to working class people. Lesley > I did not attack the middle classes...I described my view of them....judging > from the views carved up with my drug references this is a largly middle > class group...Maybe I`m just an inverted snob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 > >How do you get this idea that anti-drug people are middle class? >Seems to me that you make way too many assumptions about people's >politics and class from just one viewpoint they hold, I find that >insulting. >I consider myself fairly classless, have I or anyone else labelled >you as low class or " loony left " for your views? Well I think you just have my dear! I am indeed leftwing...a bit looney I suppose, but I always thought it was " working class " , not " lower class " . Unfortunately, through rigerous hard work and determination I have clawed myself out of the pit of dispair you call the " Low Classes " , and now I too am painted with the " middle class " brush. >Lots of working class people are at least as interested as middle >class people in protecting their kids from drugs, and to suggest it >is the middle classes who are anti-drugs is an insult to working >class people. Lots of working class and middle class kids take (illegal)drugs. Their bamboozled and blinkered parents/authorities lack courage to seriously address the problem. Prohibition and denial are a farce. www.flicknife.com if you want to talk about it. _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 vegan-network, " mr big " <pervyempire@h...> wrote: > > > > > >How do you get this idea that anti-drug people are middle class? > >Seems to me that you make way too many assumptions about people's > >politics and class from just one viewpoint they hold, I find that > >insulting. > >I consider myself fairly classless, have I or anyone else labelled > >you as low class or " loony left " for your views? > > Well I think you just have my dear! > > I am indeed leftwing...a bit looney I suppose, but I always thought it was > " working class " , not " lower class " . Unfortunately, through rigerous hard > work and determination I have clawed myself out of the pit of dispair you > call the " Low Classes " , and now I too am painted with the " middle class " > brush. > > > >Lots of working class people are at least as interested as middle > >class people in protecting their kids from drugs, and to suggest it > >is the middle classes who are anti-drugs is an insult to working > >class people. > > Lots of working class and middle class kids take (illegal)drugs. Their > bamboozled and blinkered parents/authorities lack courage to seriously > address the problem. Prohibition and denial are a farce. > > > www.flicknife.com > > if you want to talk about it. > ____________________ ___ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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