Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 I'd just like to reiterate a point that often needs to be made when people question veganism's health. It is about the animals - all the other benefits associated with human health - more food for other humans (not that I am awfully bothered about this, we have enough of us)- and environmental extras are just that, benefits on top. The reason people should go vegan is not a selfish step (I want lower blood pressure etc) - it is an ethical one. In the 'normal' exchange with meat eaters it goes, " Ohyou are a vegan! " Yes " " What'sthat? " " no animal foods, etc) " " Ohwell! I couldn't do that...(often shake of head) " -----REMEMBER THE RESPONSE------ " Itis not about you or me though is it - Are you really that selfish that the first (and probably) only thing you think about is yourself???!!! " Ok, so I have become argumentative quickly here, but the conversation must include these words. I speak having been vegan for almost 21 years. Any person who understands the concept of 'rights' will be vegan - If they go veggie, they are either selfish or too stupid to understand. The idea of vegetarianism is a hypocritical notion, and records show that meat eaters argued this in Greek times. OK we don't want to drive people away from the notion of giving up the beloved dead-animal-on-a-plate-three-times-a-day, but when you meet someone who is against what you believe remember to tell them what I think of them. Thanks for reading this. Please discuss. Andrew Barnes 07970 075905 -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 You have made an excellent point. One of the toughest things about becoming a vegan was dealing with the fact that everyone thought that I was going to get sick or wither away and die while "the cute little animals got stronger and stronger." For me it definitely was more about my planet then my body. Being an Environmental Science student I have had to study tons of animal rights issues, biological effects of antibiotics, factory farm waste. For me it eventually just became that being an ovo-lacto vegetarian becan to make me feel uneasy, I had to go all the way. I really scares me that even with mad cow disease and foot and mouth that people still wish to consume these animal products. And who knows what all these genetically modified organisms are going to do to our health later on. Its makes me feel a lot better that I have found this group and people that share some of the ideas I do. It's hard to find anyone with a like mind in my area. ErinGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 >thanks for your support. Do you know of any places where one can get an 'ethical job'. I have been searching as I graduate next month but you have to visit every website of every company to check for vacancies. Many don't even tell you and so mails get sent --more hassle. I am considering setting up Ethical Recruitment where you can specify 'animal rights, human rights, sustainability, poverty, children's rights etc and then search for jobs on that basis rather than simply £££, place and sector. Please help. If nobody knows of one then ... ...............Does anyone want to be part of the 1st Ethical Recruitment Agency??? Andy Andrew Barnes 07970 075905 -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Gis a job Angie!!! - <alwbarnes <vegan-network > Wednesday, April 18, 2001 8:16 AM Re: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens >thanks for your support. Do you know of any places where one can get an 'ethical job'. I have been searching as I graduate next month but you have to visit every website of every company to check for vacancies. Many don't even tell you and so mails get sent --more hassle. I am considering setting up Ethical Recruitment where you can specify 'animal rights, human rights, sustainability, poverty, children's rights etc and then search for jobs on that basis rather than simply £££, place and sector. Please help. If nobody knows of one then ... ...............Does anyone want to be part of the 1st Ethical Recruitment Agency??? Andy Andrew Barnes 07970 075905 -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 I just thought I'd make a brief point.Sorry if I'm ranting but I felt the need to comment. I've only been vegan for about three months. These past three months I've been really ill and have had the shits and been nearly passing out lots and laid awake with stomach ache most nights. The only physical change that there has been in my life is that I've become vegan. I cycle everywhere, I eat really healthily - lots of fresh stuff - but my body is finding it really hard to adjust to the change in diet and its making me sick. I wouldn't want to make the change back to being veggie - which was a step for me towards veganism - but I know a lot of people simply couldn't hack what my body is going through at the moment, adjusting to my ethics. For those who are veggie - at least it is causing less harm than meat eating. At least they are making an effort - which is more than most, and if you put people down, it puts them off, and further entrenches people in the cruelty they are used to consuming. A positive approach is inspiring: attacking people just gets their backs up & makes them dismiss your arguments because they assume everything you say is going to be unreasonable. I know the human population is overcrowded - that's why I'm only having one child, even though I wish I could have a second child as we are really isolated here & Jade could do with a brother or sister- but ethically I don't think its fair to create more humans. But for the people who are alive today - why persecute them just for being human? Its something we all have to live with and make the best of until we change this system for the better and start making humanity something that is positive rather than destructive. This system we live in is bad for both humans and animals - so why let them make us hate each other instead of standing together for the beliefs we do have in common? Hannah. > > I'd just like to reiterate a point that often needs to be made when people question veganism's health. > > It is about the animals - all the other benefits associated with human health - more food for other humans (not that I am awfully bothered about this, we have enough of us)- and environmental extras are just that, benefits on top. > > The reason people should go vegan is not a selfish step (I want lower blood pressure etc) - it is an ethical one. > > In the 'normal' exchange with meat eaters it goes, > > " Ohyou are a vegan! > " Yes " > " What'sthat? " > " no animal foods, etc) " > " Ohwell! I couldn't do that...(often shake of head) " > -----REMEMBER THE RESPONSE------ > " Itis not about you or me though is it - Are you really that selfish that the first (and probably) only thing you think about is yourself???!!! " > > Ok, so I have become argumentative quickly here, but the conversation must include these words. > > I speak having been vegan for almost 21 years. > > Any person who understands the concept of 'rights' will be vegan - If they go veggie, they are either selfish or too stupid to understand. The idea of vegetarianism is a hypocritical notion, and records show that meat eaters argued this in Greek times. > > OK we don't want to drive people away from the notion of giving up the beloved dead-animal-on-a-plate-three-times-a-day, but when you meet someone who is against what you believe remember to tell them what I think of them. > > Thanks for reading this. > > Please discuss. > > Andrew Barnes > 07970 075905 > > -------------------- > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 I totally agree with the " vegan for ethical reasons " , and whilst I understand that vegetarianism can be duped as hypocritical, it is in many cases a means to an end. (hopefully veganism) But just to clear things up. How many people in this group can honestly say that their grand realization (ie veganism is right), happened simultaniously with their conversion to it? For me veganism was and is a process. I drink " fairtrade " coffee and cocoa, and I eat " fairtrade chocolate " apart from my sainsburys easter egg (see?...my ethics out the window there) Do we all buy fairtrade here??? especially with coco, coffee, rugs ??? These are surely as important as avoiding supporting the wings being clipped of the queen bee? If a friend told me they were going veggie, or stopping buying Nestle, or walking to the shop instead of driving, I would applaud them, . I wouldn`t dive straight in with " you hypocrite...you must be vegan " ... It didn`t work like that for me...I became veggie when I was 24, then vegan when I was 28, I`m now closing in on 32 and I`m not yet macrobiotic or fruitarian. Anyway, thats enough...keep trying everyone!! MrBeenWeenedOffHISVilehabits >I speak having been vegan for almost 21 years. > >Any person who understands the concept of 'rights' will be vegan - If they >go veggie, they are either selfish or too stupid to understand. The idea of >vegetarianism is a hypocritical notion, and records show that meat eaters >argued this in Greek times. > >OK we don't want to drive people away from the notion of giving up the >beloved dead-animal-on-a-plate-three-times-a-day, but when you meet someone >who is against what you believe remember to tell them what I think of them. > >Thanks for reading this. > >Please discuss. > >Andrew Barnes >07970 075905 > >-------------------- >talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at >http://www.talk21.com > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 I think I`m gonna have too pop up to Cambridge hannah and give you a few good wholesome meals. I can`t think of any reason why shifting from a veggie diet to a vegan should have any bad effects....are you sure you are eating a balanced diet??? wholemeal bread, lentils, beans, rice, bulgarwheat, lot`s of fruit juice, lot`s of fruit, greens???...lot`s of mineral water...try buying organic root veggies if you aint already...drink vitamin & calcium enriched soya, eat even more greens, breath lot`s of fresh air.....use olive oil instead of veggie oil...er....gotta get back to work now... anyway...I agree with your point`s as I`ve already mailed... well done > >I just thought I'd make a brief point.Sorry if I'm ranting but I felt the >need to comment. >I've only been vegan for about three months. These past three months I've >been really ill and have had the shits and been nearly passing >out lots and laid awake with stomach ache most nights. The only physical >change that there has been in my life is that I've become >vegan. I cycle everywhere, I eat really healthily - lots of fresh stuff - >but my body is finding it really hard to adjust to the change in diet and >its making me sick. > >I wouldn't want to make the change back to being veggie - which was a step >for me towards veganism - but I know a lot of people simply >couldn't hack what my body is going through at the moment, adjusting to my >ethics. For those who are veggie - at least it is causing less >harm than meat eating. At least they are making an effort - which is more >than most, and if you put people down, it puts them off, and >further entrenches people in the cruelty they are used to consuming. A >positive approach is inspiring: attacking people just gets their >backs up & makes them dismiss your arguments because they assume everything >you say is going to be unreasonable. > >I know the human population is overcrowded - that's why I'm only having one >child, even though I wish I could have a second child as we >are really isolated here & Jade could do with a brother or sister- but >ethically I don't think its fair to create more humans. But for the >people who are alive today - why persecute them just for being human? Its >something we all have to live with and make the best of >until we change this system for the better and start making humanity >something that is positive rather than destructive. This system we >live in is bad for both humans and animals - so why let them make us hate >each other instead of standing together for the beliefs we do >have in common? > >Hannah. > > > > > > I'd just like to reiterate a point that often needs to be made when >people question veganism's health. > > > > It is about the animals - all the other benefits associated with human >health - more food for other humans (not that I am awfully bothered >about this, we have enough of us)- and environmental extras are just that, >benefits on top. > > > > The reason people should go vegan is not a selfish step (I want lower >blood pressure etc) - it is an ethical one. > > > > In the 'normal' exchange with meat eaters it goes, > > > > " Ohyou are a vegan! > > " Yes " > > " What'sthat? " > > " no animal foods, etc) " > > " Ohwell! I couldn't do that...(often shake of head) " > > -----REMEMBER THE RESPONSE------ > > " Itis not about you or me though is it - Are you really that selfish >that the first (and probably) only thing you think about is yourself???!!! " > > > > Ok, so I have become argumentative quickly here, but the conversation >must include these words. > > > > I speak having been vegan for almost 21 years. > > > > Any person who understands the concept of 'rights' will be vegan - If >they go veggie, they are either selfish or too stupid to understand. >The idea of vegetarianism is a hypocritical notion, and records show that >meat eaters argued this in Greek times. > > > > OK we don't want to drive people away from the notion of giving up the >beloved dead-animal-on-a-plate-three-times-a-day, but when you >meet someone who is against what you believe remember to tell them what I >think of them. > > > > Thanks for reading this. > > > > Please discuss. > > > > Andrew Barnes > > 07970 075905 > > > > -------------------- > > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at >http://www.talk21.com > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 > >If a friend told me they were going veggie, or stopping buying Nestle, or >walking to the shop instead of driving, I would applaud them, . I wouldn`t >dive straight in with " you hypocrite...you must be vegan " ... > HEAR HEAR! Otherwise I wouldn't be able to hold a decent conversation with anybody I know. _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Or you could be eating too healthily - try a few meals of chips and beans, a nice fry up with tomato, fried bread, sausages and mushrooms, big vegan choccie cake - that'll sort you out > " mr big " <pervyempire >vegan-network >vegan-network >Re: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens >Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:55:20 +0100 > >I think I`m gonna have too pop up to Cambridge hannah and give you a few >good wholesome meals. I can`t think of any reason why shifting from a >veggie >diet to a vegan should have any bad effects....are you sure you are eating >a >balanced diet??? > >wholemeal bread, lentils, beans, rice, bulgarwheat, lot`s of fruit juice, >lot`s of fruit, greens???...lot`s of mineral water...try buying organic >root >veggies if you aint already...drink vitamin & calcium enriched soya, eat even >more greens, breath lot`s of fresh air.....use olive oil instead of veggie >oil...er....gotta get back to work now... > >anyway...I agree with your point`s as I`ve already mailed... > >well done > > > > >I just thought I'd make a brief point.Sorry if I'm ranting but I felt the > >need to comment. > >I've only been vegan for about three months. These past three months I've > >been really ill and have had the shits and been nearly passing > >out lots and laid awake with stomach ache most nights. The only physical > >change that there has been in my life is that I've become > >vegan. I cycle everywhere, I eat really healthily - lots of fresh stuff - > >but my body is finding it really hard to adjust to the change in diet and > >its making me sick. > > > >I wouldn't want to make the change back to being veggie - which was a >step > >for me towards veganism - but I know a lot of people simply > >couldn't hack what my body is going through at the moment, adjusting to >my > >ethics. For those who are veggie - at least it is causing less > >harm than meat eating. At least they are making an effort - which is more > >than most, and if you put people down, it puts them off, and > >further entrenches people in the cruelty they are used to consuming. A > >positive approach is inspiring: attacking people just gets their > >backs up & makes them dismiss your arguments because they assume >everything > >you say is going to be unreasonable. > > > >I know the human population is overcrowded - that's why I'm only having >one > >child, even though I wish I could have a second child as we > >are really isolated here & Jade could do with a brother or sister- but > >ethically I don't think its fair to create more humans. But for the > >people who are alive today - why persecute them just for being human? Its > >something we all have to live with and make the best of > >until we change this system for the better and start making humanity > >something that is positive rather than destructive. This system we > >live in is bad for both humans and animals - so why let them make us hate > >each other instead of standing together for the beliefs we do > >have in common? > > > >Hannah. > > > > > > > > > > I'd just like to reiterate a point that often needs to be made when > >people question veganism's health. > > > > > > It is about the animals - all the other benefits associated with human > >health - more food for other humans (not that I am awfully bothered > >about this, we have enough of us)- and environmental extras are just >that, > >benefits on top. > > > > > > The reason people should go vegan is not a selfish step (I want lower > >blood pressure etc) - it is an ethical one. > > > > > > In the 'normal' exchange with meat eaters it goes, > > > > > > " Ohyou are a vegan! > > > " Yes " > > > " What'sthat? " > > > " no animal foods, etc) " > > > " Ohwell! I couldn't do that...(often shake of head) " > > > -----REMEMBER THE RESPONSE------ > > > " Itis not about you or me though is it - Are you really that selfish > >that the first (and probably) only thing you think about is >yourself???!!! " > > > > > > Ok, so I have become argumentative quickly here, but the conversation > >must include these words. > > > > > > I speak having been vegan for almost 21 years. > > > > > > Any person who understands the concept of 'rights' will be vegan - If > >they go veggie, they are either selfish or too stupid to understand. > >The idea of vegetarianism is a hypocritical notion, and records show that > >meat eaters argued this in Greek times. > > > > > > OK we don't want to drive people away from the notion of giving up the > >beloved dead-animal-on-a-plate-three-times-a-day, but when you > >meet someone who is against what you believe remember to tell them what I > >think of them. > > > > > > Thanks for reading this. > > > > > > Please discuss. > > > > > > Andrew Barnes > > > 07970 075905 > > > > > > -------------------- > > > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at > >http://www.talk21.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Well that's breakfast sorted, but what about the rest of the day!?! Rob (a fat vegan). vegan-network, " Emily Howarth " <dropscone@h...> wrote: > Or you could be eating too healthily - try a few meals of chips and beans, a > nice fry up with tomato, fried bread, sausages and mushrooms, big vegan > choccie cake - that'll sort you out > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Well that's breakfast sorted, but what about the rest of the day!?! Rob (a fat vegan). vegan-network, " Emily Howarth " <dropscone@h...> wrote: > Or you could be eating too healthily - try a few meals of chips and beans, a > nice fry up with tomato, fried bread, sausages and mushrooms, big vegan > choccie cake - that'll sort you out > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 WE have to remember that we will start to find ourselves coming across life vegans .these people dont understand the concept of conversions [whether fast or slow].they know no alternative way of living and dont have to break old habits nor do they worry about whether their body can cope .they are very lucky really Angie - " mr big " <pervyempire <vegan-network > Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:41 PM Re: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens > I totally agree with the " vegan for ethical reasons " , and whilst I > understand that vegetarianism can be duped as hypocritical, it is in many > cases a means to an end. (hopefully veganism) > > But just to clear things up. How many people in this group can honestly say > that their grand realization (ie veganism is right), happened simultaniously > with their conversion to it? For me veganism was and is a process. > > I drink " fairtrade " coffee and cocoa, and I eat " fairtrade chocolate " apart > from my sainsburys easter egg (see?...my ethics out the window there) > > Do we all buy fairtrade here??? especially with coco, coffee, rugs ??? > > These are surely as important as avoiding supporting the wings being clipped > of the queen bee? > > If a friend told me they were going veggie, or stopping buying Nestle, or > walking to the shop instead of driving, I would applaud them, . I wouldn`t > dive straight in with " you hypocrite...you must be vegan " ... > > It didn`t work like that for me...I became veggie when I was 24, then vegan > when I was 28, I`m now closing in on 32 and I`m not yet macrobiotic or > fruitarian. > > > Anyway, thats enough...keep trying everyone!! > > > MrBeenWeenedOffHISVilehabits > > > >I speak having been vegan for almost 21 years. > > > >Any person who understands the concept of 'rights' will be vegan - If they > >go veggie, they are either selfish or too stupid to understand. The idea of > >vegetarianism is a hypocritical notion, and records show that meat eaters > >argued this in Greek times. > > > >OK we don't want to drive people away from the notion of giving up the > >beloved dead-animal-on-a-plate-three-times-a-day, but when you meet someone > >who is against what you believe remember to tell them what I think of them. > > > >Thanks for reading this. > > > >Please discuss. > > > >Andrew Barnes > >07970 075905 > > > >-------------------- > >talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at > >http://www.talk21.com > > > > _______________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 Most vegans I believe do a poo twice a day .At uni a few years ago a lecturer sid once a day or more was ok but most people are not regular enough but dont know because they are too embarrassed to talk about it.I,m not I go when I get up and about bed time.What about you!!!!! Angie - " mr big " <pervyempire <vegan-network > Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:55 PM Re: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens > I think I`m gonna have too pop up to Cambridge hannah and give you a few > good wholesome meals. I can`t think of any reason why shifting from a veggie > diet to a vegan should have any bad effects....are you sure you are eating a > balanced diet??? > > wholemeal bread, lentils, beans, rice, bulgarwheat, lot`s of fruit juice, > lot`s of fruit, greens???...lot`s of mineral water...try buying organic root > veggies if you aint already...drink vitamin & calcium enriched soya, eat even > more greens, breath lot`s of fresh air.....use olive oil instead of veggie > oil...er....gotta get back to work now... > > anyway...I agree with your point`s as I`ve already mailed... > > well done > > > > >I just thought I'd make a brief point.Sorry if I'm ranting but I felt the > >need to comment. > >I've only been vegan for about three months. These past three months I've > >been really ill and have had the shits and been nearly passing > >out lots and laid awake with stomach ache most nights. The only physical > >change that there has been in my life is that I've become > >vegan. I cycle everywhere, I eat really healthily - lots of fresh stuff - > >but my body is finding it really hard to adjust to the change in diet and > >its making me sick. > > > >I wouldn't want to make the change back to being veggie - which was a step > >for me towards veganism - but I know a lot of people simply > >couldn't hack what my body is going through at the moment, adjusting to my > >ethics. For those who are veggie - at least it is causing less > >harm than meat eating. At least they are making an effort - which is more > >than most, and if you put people down, it puts them off, and > >further entrenches people in the cruelty they are used to consuming. A > >positive approach is inspiring: attacking people just gets their > >backs up & makes them dismiss your arguments because they assume everything > >you say is going to be unreasonable. > > > >I know the human population is overcrowded - that's why I'm only having one > >child, even though I wish I could have a second child as we > >are really isolated here & Jade could do with a brother or sister- but > >ethically I don't think its fair to create more humans. But for the > >people who are alive today - why persecute them just for being human? Its > >something we all have to live with and make the best of > >until we change this system for the better and start making humanity > >something that is positive rather than destructive. This system we > >live in is bad for both humans and animals - so why let them make us hate > >each other instead of standing together for the beliefs we do > >have in common? > > > >Hannah. > > > > > > > > > > I'd just like to reiterate a point that often needs to be made when > >people question veganism's health. > > > > > > It is about the animals - all the other benefits associated with human > >health - more food for other humans (not that I am awfully bothered > >about this, we have enough of us)- and environmental extras are just that, > >benefits on top. > > > > > > The reason people should go vegan is not a selfish step (I want lower > >blood pressure etc) - it is an ethical one. > > > > > > In the 'normal' exchange with meat eaters it goes, > > > > > > " Ohyou are a vegan! > > > " Yes " > > > " What'sthat? " > > > " no animal foods, etc) " > > > " Ohwell! I couldn't do that...(often shake of head) " > > > -----REMEMBER THE RESPONSE------ > > > " Itis not about you or me though is it - Are you really that selfish > >that the first (and probably) only thing you think about is yourself???!!! " > > > > > > Ok, so I have become argumentative quickly here, but the conversation > >must include these words. > > > > > > I speak having been vegan for almost 21 years. > > > > > > Any person who understands the concept of 'rights' will be vegan - If > >they go veggie, they are either selfish or too stupid to understand. > >The idea of vegetarianism is a hypocritical notion, and records show that > >meat eaters argued this in Greek times. > > > > > > OK we don't want to drive people away from the notion of giving up the > >beloved dead-animal-on-a-plate-three-times-a-day, but when you > >meet someone who is against what you believe remember to tell them what I > >think of them. > > > > > > Thanks for reading this. > > > > > > Please discuss. > > > > > > Andrew Barnes > > > 07970 075905 > > > > > > -------------------- > > > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at > >http://www.talk21.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 It must depend on the Veggie and whether they have cut down on animal food or simply replacedmeat for eggs/milk.In my opinion Milk and battery eggs are alot creller than rearing cows/sheep for meat.I never could understand either how women could be so cruel to other females to allow their young to be taken away from them. Angie - " Emily Howarth " <dropscone <vegan-network > Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:53 PM Re: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens > > > > >If a friend told me they were going veggie, or stopping buying Nestle, or > >walking to the shop instead of driving, I would applaud them, . I wouldn`t > >dive straight in with " you hypocrite...you must be vegan " ... > > > > HEAR HEAR! > > Otherwise I wouldn't be able to hold a decent conversation with anybody I > know. > _______________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 We must compile a list of fat vegans to disprove the popular myth that veganism is connected with anorexia Another fat vegan[who loves ice cream and yoghourt--and is making up for the years when they didn't exist!]---Angie - " spacevegan " <rob <vegan-network > Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:12 PM Re: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens > Well that's breakfast sorted, but what about the rest of the day!?! > > Rob (a fat vegan). > vegan-network, " Emily Howarth " <dropscone@h...> wrote: > > Or you could be eating too healthily - try a few meals of chips and > beans, a > > nice fry up with tomato, fried bread, sausages and mushrooms, big > vegan > > choccie cake - that'll sort you out > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2001 Report Share Posted April 18, 2001 I totally agree with you Angie. A good message! ~~ Jane C ~~ - " Angie Wright " <angiewright <vegan-network > Wednesday, April 18, 2001 7:40 PM Re: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens > It must depend on the Veggie and whether they have cut down on animal food > or simply replacedmeat for eggs/milk.In my opinion Milk and battery eggs are > alot creller than rearing cows/sheep for meat.I never could understand > either how women could be so cruel to other females to allow their young to > be taken away from them. Angie > - > " Emily Howarth " <dropscone > <vegan-network > > Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:53 PM > Re: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens > > > > > > > > > >If a friend told me they were going veggie, or stopping buying Nestle, or > > >walking to the shop instead of driving, I would applaud them, . I > wouldn`t > > >dive straight in with " you hypocrite...you must be vegan " ... > > > > > > > HEAR HEAR! > > > > Otherwise I wouldn't be able to hold a decent conversation with anybody I > > know. > > _______________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 Well said Matt!! > " Matt " <matt >vegan-network ><vegan-network > >RE: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens >Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:00:12 +0100 > >I am a hypocrite... > >Until the day I sit smugly in my Earth sheltered dwelling, >with it's compost toilet, passive solar heating and vegan-organic >permaculture garden, when all of my day-to-day goods >through a LET scheme, and I work in a co-operative designing >cool ecosoftware. (and loads of other stuff) > >We are all on a path (veggies included), and there is always someone >ahead of us on that path - in whose eyes we are hypocrites. > >Let's be nice to those 'behind' us, give them help and encouragement, >and hope from the same from the people up in front of us. > >Cheers >Matt > > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 I am a hypocrite... Until the day I sit smugly in my Earth sheltered dwelling, with it's compost toilet, passive solar heating and vegan-organic permaculture garden, when all of my day-to-day goods through a LET scheme, and I work in a co-operative designing cool ecosoftware. (and loads of other stuff) We are all on a path (veggies included), and there is always someone ahead of us on that path - in whose eyes we are hypocrites. Let's be nice to those 'behind' us, give them help and encouragement, and hope from the same from the people up in front of us. Cheers Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 Angie - My daughter will be a life vegan. She found the change difficult too, but at seventeen months old she is really adaptable and it took only a few weeks for her stomach to adjust. She poos twice a day now and people keep stopping me wherever we go together and ask what I feed her on because she is so healthy, intelligent, happy & alive! Just before we went vegan she had had nappy rash for about two months, which was bleeding and sore. Within a week of replacing dairy with home-made soy milk, & lavender oil instead of shop-bought-nappy-cream, it had cleared up & never returned. It is definitely healthier. As for me, my partner has been feeding me echinacea and slippery elm the last few days. I'd really recommend it for anyone who gets belly ache for whatever reason. You can cope with the taste if you mix it with some stock or bouillion as a drink. I'm just about better now so I can look forward to feeling good this summer - both ethically and physically. Although, until I stop using plastic & fossil fuels, & money altogether - I don't think I'll ever really feel ethical either... I haven't had a fry up in ages. Good idea. Do you have a recipie for vegan chocolate cake you could post on the net? I've made lots of oat & apple & banana & walnut creations of late which are great - but I do fancy a good bog standard bad-for-you chocolate cake. Mr Big - thankyou too for your kind comments. You would be welcome if you stopped by in Cambridge - but if you do please let me cook for you ! I do eat well, my body's just been angry at me with all the changes & stress over the past year (homelessness & squatting, death threats to my baby over mistakes made by a nutter, doing karmically really bad jobs to get rid of suffocating debt - Dave dislocating his knee - you know, the usual shit one goes through when living in Babylon,) and I think a change in diet (when we moved onto Eva, our new boat & moved to a nicer city & an 'ethical' job working for the homeless,) was just too much for it - even though all the change was for the better. I stocked up on wholemeal flour & herbs & Tofu today while skiiving on my way into work, & am on holiday on our boat in the fens next week, so we will be living on home-made wholemeal bread and fresh & dried fruit & nuts & veg for a week with loads of fresh air & open space by the river. I am really strong as it goes, but change can be hard for everyone sometimes. I can't usually afford organic food - especially since I'm not being paid at the moment! ~I think the only real solution would be to grow our own. Might give it a go. Hannah x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 Point taken. Sorry if I jumped at you a bit. I guess veganism is just part of a step in the right direction too - but as you say, if you don't challenge people then change won't happen and it might all become too late. I just think being confrontational puts you at a disadvantage - and its better to be strong in yourself & positive as a strategy for challenging people! H x - <alwbarnes <vegan-network > Thursday, April 19, 2001 2:11 PM Re: RE: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens > I did try to say that my 'comments' were aggravated. > > I by no means suggest they are the only words that 'we' should say to 'them'. > > However - it is not difficult to go vegan today but it is difficult to bring changes in society. > Going Vegan is personal, it does not require anyone else to do anything. > To have an ecobased system requres changing the will of others. > > What gets me is that 'people' are under some sort of impression that going vegan is to be the hardest thing ever. > > It takes no account of the boycotting companies saga one will be dragged towards following. > > GOING VEGAN IS NOT A BIG THING (for those who aren't) > ---GET ON WITH IT--- > It is the easiest thing to do to NOt HELP the destruction of the planet and it's inhabitants. > > > > >I am a hypocrite... > > > >Untilthe day I sit smugly in my Earth sheltered dwelling, > >withit's compost toilet, passive solar heating and vegan-organic > >permaculturegarden, when all of my day-to-day goods > >througha LET scheme, and I work in a co-operative designing > >coolecosoftware. (and loads of other stuff) > > > >Weare all on a path (veggies included), and there is always someone > >aheadof us on that path - in whose eyes we are hypocrites. > > > >Let'sbe nice to those 'behind' us, give them help and encouragement, > >andhope from the same from the people up in front of us. > > > >Cheers > >Matt > > > > > > > >------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 I did try to say that my 'comments' were aggravated. I by no means suggest they are the only words that 'we' should say to 'them'. However - it is not difficult to go vegan today but it is difficult to bring changes in society. Going Vegan is personal, it does not require anyone else to do anything. To have an ecobased system requres changing the will of others. What gets me is that 'people' are under some sort of impression that going vegan is to be the hardest thing ever. It takes no account of the boycotting companies saga one will be dragged towards following. GOING VEGAN IS NOT A BIG THING (for those who aren't) ---GET ON WITH IT--- It is the easiest thing to do to NOt HELP the destruction of the planet and it's inhabitants. >I am a hypocrite... > >Untilthe day I sit smugly in my Earth sheltered dwelling, >withit's compost toilet, passive solar heating and vegan-organic >permaculturegarden, when all of my day-to-day goods >througha LET scheme, and I work in a co-operative designing >coolecosoftware. (and loads of other stuff) > >Weare all on a path (veggies included), and there is always someone >aheadof us on that path - in whose eyes we are hypocrites. > >Let'sbe nice to those 'behind' us, give them help and encouragement, >andhope from the same from the people up in front of us. > >Cheers >Matt > > > >------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 As I said before....could someone...preferably an (aggitated at non vegans lack of veganism) person, please explain to me how they came to being vegan. Did all this knowledge of animal abuse, land rape etc, occur in an instance???....did you one day read that mankind was very bad and that eating animals was wrong and suddenly decide to become a vegan??? I haven't met anyone like that ever...well, apart from fashion victims of coarse. I'm not arguing for or against any approach to promoting veganism, but it would really be interesting to know how people who I assume have went through a process expect to find everyone else at the other end when they get there. Anyone: was there one moment that made you become vegan??...or even veggie?? If so, then bottle it and give it away!!! >alwbarnes >vegan-network >vegan-network >Re: RE: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens >Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:11:32 GMT+01:00 > >I did try to say that my 'comments' were aggravated. > >I by no means suggest they are the only words that 'we' should say to >'them'. > >However - it is not difficult to go vegan today but it is difficult to >bring changes in society. >Going Vegan is personal, it does not require anyone else to do anything. >To have an ecobased system requres changing the will of others. > >What gets me is that 'people' are under some sort of impression that going >vegan is to be the hardest thing ever. > >It takes no account of the boycotting companies saga one will be dragged >towards following. > >GOING VEGAN IS NOT A BIG THING (for those who aren't) >---GET ON WITH IT--- >It is the easiest thing to do to NOt HELP the destruction of the planet and >it's inhabitants. > > > > >I am a hypocrite... > > > >Untilthe day I sit smugly in my Earth sheltered dwelling, > >withit's compost toilet, passive solar heating and vegan-organic > >permaculturegarden, when all of my day-to-day goods > >througha LET scheme, and I work in a co-operative designing > >coolecosoftware. (and loads of other stuff) > > > >Weare all on a path (veggies included), and there is always someone > >aheadof us on that path - in whose eyes we are hypocrites. > > > >Let'sbe nice to those 'behind' us, give them help and encouragement, > >andhope from the same from the people up in front of us. > > > >Cheers > >Matt > > > > > > > >------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 There was both one moment that made me veggie and one that made me vegan. -Veggie, land rape, meat stats, Heath etc. Read a Hindu type book given to me at a veggie Chinese restaurant. -Total Veg diet, linked all other animal products to above stats. A tinsy bit later became aware of Veganism. Still eat honey cause my G.F's mother collects it as a hobby, so no nasty F.F'ed honey. I'll also eat food with honey listed on the ingredients, as long as it's not a main ingredient. Normally it's added in such minute quantities that it's just so they can list it. mr big [pervyempire] 19 April 2001 15:23 vegan-network Re: RE: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens As I said before....could someone...preferably an (aggitated at non vegans lack of veganism) person, please explain to me how they came to being vegan. Did all this knowledge of animal abuse, land rape etc, occur in an instance???....did you one day read that mankind was very bad and that eating animals was wrong and suddenly decide to become a vegan??? I haven't met anyone like that ever...well, apart from fashion victims of coarse. I'm not arguing for or against any approach to promoting veganism, but it would really be interesting to know how people who I assume have went through a process expect to find everyone else at the other end when they get there. Anyone: was there one moment that made you become vegan??...or even veggie?? If so, then bottle it and give it away!!! >alwbarnes >vegan-network >vegan-network >Re: RE: Hypocrites, the selfish and vegetariens >Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:11:32 GMT+01:00 > >I did try to say that my 'comments' were aggravated. > >I by no means suggest they are the only words that 'we' should say to >'them'. > >However - it is not difficult to go vegan today but it is difficult to >bring changes in society. >Going Vegan is personal, it does not require anyone else to do anything. >To have an ecobased system requres changing the will of others. > >What gets me is that 'people' are under some sort of impression that going >vegan is to be the hardest thing ever. > >It takes no account of the boycotting companies saga one will be dragged >towards following. > >GOING VEGAN IS NOT A BIG THING (for those who aren't) >---GET ON WITH IT--- >It is the easiest thing to do to NOt HELP the destruction of the planet and >it's inhabitants. > > > > >I am a hypocrite... > > > >Untilthe day I sit smugly in my Earth sheltered dwelling, > >withit's compost toilet, passive solar heating and vegan-organic > >permaculturegarden, when all of my day-to-day goods > >througha LET scheme, and I work in a co-operative designing > >coolecosoftware. (and loads of other stuff) > > > >Weare all on a path (veggies included), and there is always someone > >aheadof us on that path - in whose eyes we are hypocrites. > > > >Let'sbe nice to those 'behind' us, give them help and encouragement, > >andhope from the same from the people up in front of us. > > > >Cheers > >Matt > > > > > > > >------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 >There was both one moment that made me veggie and one that made me vegan. >-Veggie, land rape, meat stats, Heath etc. Read a Hindu type book given to >me at a veggie Chinese restaurant. Is a book read in a moment??....wasn`t there any awareness of what meat is about before you read this book??...Hadn`t you already reached a point where you where ready to face the music.... and therefor read a book that most people would still cast aside? > >-Total Veg diet, linked all other animal products to above stats. Did this link happen instantly, or after a period of reflection and learning? MrInstantsoup _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2001 Report Share Posted April 19, 2001 >There was both one moment that made me veggie and one that made me vegan. >-Veggie, land rape, meat stats, Heath etc. Read a Hindu type book given to >me at a veggie Chinese restaurant. Is a book read in a moment??....wasn`t there any awareness of what meat is about before you read this book??...Hadn`t you already reached a point where you where ready to face the music.... and therefor read a book that most people would still cast aside? I knew where meat came from! Just not much about what meat " is " . It's like suppression, no I hadn't reached this point, the day before I was waving a pork chop under my G/F nose (whom was veggie, childish I know!), the next day I was sitting in a veggie Chinese restaurant enjoying the food I thought would be bland. Read a book (thin) on the way back in the train and I was converted. > >-Total Veg diet, linked all other animal products to above stats. Did this link happen instantly, or after a period of reflection and learning? 2 years of being veggie. The learning curve was much steeper than going veggie. MrInstantsoup _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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