Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 two questions ... quick straw poll ... trying to get a feel for the land here as we meet as a subset of IT users first and foremost. * how many non-white people are on this list ? * how many people use non-Windows PCs [ i.e. Unix or Mac OS ] ? this could be interesting. john [ and i'll promise not to be grumpy if you all answer ... ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 > * how many non-white people are on this list ? Who cares? This sounds like a corporate statistic questonaire. > * how many people use non-Windows PCs [ i.e. Unix or Mac OS ] ? > win ME for all it matters > this could be interesting. Why? Tom and Joana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 I have to agree Tom and Joanna. I didn't understand the reasoning for this, certainly in a day and age when we shouldn't be bothered about people's skin colour! We're all vegan. We all love animals and respect our health. That's what counts! ~~ Jane C ~~ - " Thomas and Joana Fisher " <tomjo <vegan-network > Sunday, April 22, 2001 11:34 AM Re: two questions ... > > > > > > * how many non-white people are on this list ? > Who cares? This sounds like a corporate statistic questonaire. > > > > * how many people use non-Windows PCs [ i.e. Unix or Mac OS ] ? > > win ME for all it matters > > > this could be interesting. > > Why? > > Tom and Joana > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2001 Report Share Posted April 22, 2001 I am Caucasian and use an Apple iMac 350Mhz, indigo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 From where I stand an interest in classism incites it. I'm from Auz, my parents were born in Kenya and England. I have coloured eyes (brown), coloured hair (black/brown), coloured skin pigment (white), more than average body hair (but I'm no hairy beast!). I have Windows 98 on an overclocked pentium III, 54cm screen. I keep all my files organised in the correct folders, so I can find everything when I need it. I disagree Veganism is a white skin pigment/classist thing. You'd get as much info from eye colour IMO. earthkid26 [earthkid26] 23 April 2001 01:06 vegan-network Re: two questions ... I am Caucasian and use an Apple iMac 350Mhz, indigo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 > * how many non-white people are on this list ? I'm almost translucent. > * how many people use non-Windows PCs [ i.e. Unix or Mac OS ] ? Almost exclusively unix (of various sorts). Vaughan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 I agree, that veganism is for all and there are vegans of varying skin colours and ethnic origins but the actual vegan groups do not tend to attract a very wide diversity from what I have seen. I think it's OK for John to pose the question why. Lesley > From where I stand an interest in classism incites it. > I'm from Auz, my parents were born in Kenya and England. I have coloured > eyes (brown), coloured hair (black/brown), coloured skin pigment (white), > more than average body hair (but I'm no hairy beast!). I have Windows 98 on > an overclocked pentium III, 54cm screen. I keep all my files organised in > the correct folders, so I can find everything when I need it. > I disagree Veganism is a white skin pigment/classist thing. You'd get as > much info from eye colour IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 Perhaps John was wondering as I have wondered on occasion, why it is for instance in London, that considering the large number of non- whites, that the actual vegan groups (including vegan families gatherings) tend to attract mostly white people. Maybe John's question was asked to stimulate discussion and consideration of how the vegan community can become more all- inclusive and welcoming to vegans of more varied ethnic origin. I am personally most interested that the vegan movement should be more welcoming to families, who seem to be a minority within the vegan movement, and I have noticed that vegan groups tend to be mostly made up of the white childfrees (sometimes also a few people who have grown-up children), so I might be able to see where John is coming from because I have also been thinking hard about how the movement really needs to better bring together many types of vegans, although my emphasis is slightly different, due to my personal experience of feeling like a minority within the vegan movement because I have young children. Forgive me if I have this wrong John, but I couldn't understand Jane's defensive attitude in response to you or why she was so strongly backed up by Mr Big and Tom and Joana. I had no problem with your question, and had to say something in your defence. I think I understand from your clarification, why you asked the question. The ethnic group and religion questions for instance are not on the census for any racist reason, but so as to better tackle inequality! In the same vein, I understood your intention was certainly not to be a Ku Klux Vegan!! For the record, I am white, of English and Welsh origin, and posting from my husband's PC (sorry don't ask me to understand anything technical, I am a complete airhead regarding computers, my husband knows all that and just sets it up so I can use it). I certainly know that Benjamin Zephaniah and Heather Small of M-People are both vegans, indeed Benjamin Zephaniah has appeared in Vegan Society videos. We had a Rastafarian vegan mum and child attending the vegan families picnic yesterday, but I have to say that it is quite rare for us to see black or asian people at vegan events. I certainly don't think I have ever met a Ku Klux/racist Vegan, so what is keeping them away? I am sure that many Rastafarians are vegan or vegetarian, but maybe so many of them find that they have their own strong community and find no need to get involved in the wider vegan movement. The same may apply to Indian vegetarians and vegans? I don't know why else it would be that the vegan movement is so white-dominated, and indeed I have also noticed that it is quite white male dominated, despite the fact that most vegans are women. And while on the subject of considering needs of minorities and who dominates the vegan movement, in one vegan group I was a member of, we had a deaf member, and he soon got fed up and stopped coming to meetings because everyone was so forgetful and didn't speak facing him so that he was able to lipread them. This was an ongoing problem he faced, and I noticed many times he had to remind people to not turn away when speaking. There was also a blind man who got on very well with the group and made lots of friends, so it seems it is easy for groups to adjust to people with some disabilities than others. I'm not sure that vegans are any better than the average person at attracting diversity into their groups and understanding different needs. I found this when I had kids. Yes, we all (or mostly) love (or at least respect) animals and hopefully also respect our health but how good are we at accepting human differences, even those differences when they occur within our fellow vegans? Are vegans any better at this than omnivores? I'm not so sure. For instance, I thought that you considering leaving the group just because you didn't like something John said, was not exactly a display of tolerance and understanding towards a fellow vegan. I wouldn't like to see anyone leave, and I felt that your reaction to John's clarification of his reasons for this question was rather an overreaction. Lesley > I have to agree Tom and Joanna. I didn't understand the reasoning for this, > certainly in a day and age when we shouldn't be bothered about people's skin > colour! We're all vegan. We all love animals and respect our health. That's > what counts! > > ~~ Jane C ~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 Perhaps John was wondering as I have wondered on occasion, why it is for instance in London, that considering the large number of non- whites, that the actual vegan groups (including vegan families gatherings) tend to attract mostly white people. Maybe John's question was asked to stimulate discussion and consideration of how the vegan community can become more all- inclusive and welcoming to vegans of more varied ethnic origin. I am personally most interested that the vegan movement should be more welcoming to families, who seem to be a minority within the vegan movement, and I have noticed that vegan groups tend to be mostly made up of the white childfrees (sometimes also a few people who have grown-up children), so I might be able to see where John is coming from because I have also been thinking hard about how the movement really needs to better bring together many types of vegans, although my emphasis is slightly different, due to my personal experience of feeling like a minority within the vegan movement because I have young children. Forgive me if I have this wrong John, but I couldn't understand Jane's defensive attitude in response to you or why she was so strongly backed up by Mr Big and Tom and Joana. I had no problem with your question, and had to say something in your defence. I think I understand from your clarification, why you asked the question. The ethnic group and religion questions for instance are not on the census for any racist reason, but so as to better tackle inequality! In the same vein, I understood your intention was certainly not to be a Ku Klux Vegan!! For the record, I am white, of English and Welsh origin, and posting from my husband's PC (sorry don't ask me to understand anything technical, I am a complete airhead regarding computers, my husband knows all that and just sets it up so I can use it). I certainly know that Benjamin Zephaniah and Heather Small of M-People are both vegans, indeed Benjamin Zephaniah has appeared in Vegan Society videos. We had a Rastafarian vegan mum and child attending the vegan families picnic yesterday, but I have to say that it is quite rare for us to see black or asian people at vegan events. I certainly don't think I have ever met a Ku Klux/racist Vegan, so what is keeping them away? I am sure that many Rastafarians are vegan or vegetarian, but maybe so many of them find that they have their own strong community and find no need to get involved in the wider vegan movement. The same may apply to Indian vegetarians and vegans? I don't know why else it would be that the vegan movement is so white-dominated, and indeed I have also noticed that it is quite white male dominated, despite the fact that most vegans are women. And while on the subject of considering needs of minorities and who dominates the vegan movement, in one vegan group I was a member of, we had a deaf member, and he soon got fed up and stopped coming to meetings because everyone was so forgetful and didn't speak facing him so that he was able to lipread them. This was an ongoing problem he faced, and I noticed many times he had to remind people to not turn away when speaking. There was also a blind man who got on very well with the group and made lots of friends, so it seems it is easy for groups to adjust to people with some disabilities than others. I'm not sure that vegans are any better than the average person at attracting diversity into their groups and understanding different needs. I found this when I had kids. Yes, we all (or mostly) love (or at least respect) animals and hopefully also respect our health but how good are we at accepting human differences, even those differences when they occur within our fellow vegans? Are vegans any better at this than omnivores? I'm not so sure. For instance, I thought that you considering leaving the group just because you didn't like something John said, was not exactly a display of tolerance and understanding towards a fellow vegan. I wouldn't like to see anyone leave, and I felt that your reaction to John's clarification of his reasons for this question was rather an overreaction. Lesley > I have to agree Tom and Joanna. I didn't understand the reasoning for this, > certainly in a day and age when we shouldn't be bothered about people's skin > colour! We're all vegan. We all love animals and respect our health. That's > what counts! > > ~~ Jane C ~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 Sorry about that posting twice, I had a problem and thought it hadn't worked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 Hello Lesley I read your message with interest and value your opinions. As Mr Big pointed out, this list is for vegans to share opinions, and, although I am new to this list, I am sorry that you felt that I overreacted. I personally did not see the relevance of John's message, but you did, and I understand that. Half the fun of life is being different and having different points of view, tastes and opinions! I have never worried myself about what colours eat what! I'm a vegan and I'm happy! Let's agree to disagree on this one! Take care. ~~ Jane C ~~ - " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 <vegan-network > Monday, April 23, 2001 2:59 PM Re: two questions ... > > Perhaps John was wondering as I have wondered on occasion, why it is > for instance in London, that considering the large number of non- > whites, that the actual vegan groups (including vegan families > gatherings) tend to attract mostly white people. > > Maybe John's question was asked to stimulate discussion and > consideration of how the vegan community can become more all- > inclusive and welcoming to vegans of more varied ethnic origin. > > I am personally most interested that the vegan movement should be > more welcoming to families, who seem to be a minority within the > vegan movement, and I have noticed that vegan groups tend to be > mostly made up of the white childfrees (sometimes also a few people > who have grown-up children), so I might be able to see where John is > coming from because I have also been thinking hard about how the > movement really needs to better bring together many types of vegans, > although my emphasis is slightly different, due to my personal > experience of feeling like a minority within the vegan movement > because I have young children. > > Forgive me if I have this wrong John, but I couldn't understand > Jane's defensive attitude in response to you or why she was so > strongly backed up by Mr Big and Tom and Joana. I had no problem with > your question, and had to say something in your defence. I think I > understand from your clarification, why you asked the question. The > ethnic group and religion questions for instance are not on the > census for any racist reason, but so as to better tackle inequality! > In the same vein, I understood your intention was certainly not to be > a Ku Klux Vegan!! > > For the record, I am white, of English and Welsh origin, and posting > from my husband's PC (sorry don't ask me to understand anything > technical, I am a complete airhead regarding computers, my husband > knows all that and just sets it up so I can use it). > > I certainly know that Benjamin Zephaniah and Heather Small of M-People > are both vegans, indeed Benjamin Zephaniah has appeared in Vegan > Society videos. > > We had a Rastafarian vegan mum and child attending the vegan families > picnic yesterday, but I have to say that it is quite rare for us to > see black or asian people at vegan events. > I certainly don't think I have ever met a Ku Klux/racist Vegan, so > what is keeping them away? > > I am sure that many Rastafarians are vegan or vegetarian, but maybe > so many of them find that they have their own strong community and > find no need to get involved in the wider vegan movement. The same > may apply to Indian vegetarians and vegans? I don't know why else it > would be that the vegan movement is so white-dominated, and indeed I > have also noticed that it is quite white male dominated, despite the > fact that most vegans are women. > > And while on the subject of considering needs of minorities and who > dominates the vegan movement, in one vegan group I was a member of, > we had a deaf member, and he soon got fed up and stopped coming to > meetings because everyone was so forgetful and didn't speak facing > him so that he was able to lipread them. This was an ongoing problem > he faced, and I noticed many times he had to remind people to not > turn away when speaking. > There was also a blind man who got on very well with the group and > made lots of friends, so it seems it is easy for groups to adjust to > people with some disabilities than others. > > I'm not sure that vegans are any better than the average person at > attracting diversity into their groups and understanding different > needs. > I found this when I had kids. > > Yes, we all (or mostly) love (or at least respect) animals and > hopefully also respect our health but how good are we at accepting > human differences, even those differences when they occur within our > fellow vegans? Are vegans any better at this than omnivores? I'm not > so sure. For instance, I thought that you considering leaving the > group just because you didn't like something John said, was not > exactly a display of tolerance and understanding towards a fellow > vegan. I wouldn't like to see anyone leave, and I felt that your > reaction to John's clarification of his reasons for this question was > rather an overreaction. > > Lesley > > > > I have to agree Tom and Joanna. I didn't understand the reasoning > for this, > > certainly in a day and age when we shouldn't be bothered about > people's skin > > colour! We're all vegan. We all love animals and respect our > health. That's > > what counts! > > > > ~~ Jane C ~~ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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