Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 John, I have absolutly no inclination to work with macs...I was an amiga user for years, and I moved to P.C. last year when you could finally get a good system for a good price... and pirate software so as not to give any money to MrGates & co. I have used Mac G4`s in work, they are shite...The mac was once a good computer, but now is now surpassed by the p.c. Mac users will deny this, I suppose its a question of what the person prefers. But working in graphics, video, animation and sound, Wintel gives you much more value for money than Mac. Thats that. The white black thing. What are you going to do with your research John? MrBig _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 > 2.0% Suburb > 2.2% Rural > 1.6% White > 9.4% Latino (we suspect this is a statistical error) > 3.5% Afro-American > 8.1% Asian > 1.7% Male > 3.2% Female now that is really interesting *but* it is still not about vegans. it is about vegetarians. and apart from one " translucent one " [ that is because Vaughan is so pure he is becoming an angel ... or else just does not eat ] everyone on this list is white. it says that in America there are twice as many Black vegetarians than White vegetarians. i'd put that down to the excellent Seventh Day Adventists and " Back to Eden " but would like to know more [ the only Christian sect trying to walk the talk as far as animals and environemnt go ]. that there are just as much likely to be townies and country folk? are there any statisticts for vegan and the UK? * when was the last time you saw a black or even asian person used in an advert for a wholefood/vegetarian/veg society? > Who says it's white dominated? How many people do you know that > work for any societies? i dont " know " any but i have been into to visit the veg soc and go to the annual vegan conference. i did not see any black people, no black or asians working for the socs at that time. [ interestingly quite a few vegans at the vegetarian society though ]. hey, thomas or joanna ... [ do you type with one hand each or take turns ? ] can you put paragraph spaces in your replies? it is almost impossible to put out where your answers are. > Your use of the word " seems " shows an assumption that veganism is a (as you call it) > " white thing " . These sorts of assumptions are dangerous in their nature particulalry > if you go on to say it is not an asumption ... what is your experience? how does this list break down? it really concerns me. > Vegans are vegans, they are not superior. Creating a prejudice of any sort will not > get us anywhere, half the reason behind most people's veganism is to defeat prejudice > against non-human animals. objectively judged, from the lessened impact on the environment, the vegan lifestyle is far superior. is this not what we argue at length to our criics and educate to our sympathisers? i would say that environmental accountability is by far the most important issue of our age. > Another assumption, yes Microsoft is annoying, yes its got pushy marketing tactics. > I wouldn't put it past Apple to be equally unethical or unenvironmental. > Assumptoins are not very helpful. i dont deal in assumptions. i deal in facts or report direct personal experiences. what proportion of black or asian vegans would you say there are? it is a white thing by a long way. Microsoft were *factual* proven to guilty of crimes, anti-trust, anti-competition, deliberating destroying smaller more virtuous companies in a rather big court case. their actual crimes much more than stated. sadly, most people are just willing to go along with what is safe, familiar and provided for them by the big corporations even if it is proven to be damaging, exploitative and stolen from somebody else. we are all the German citizens of the 1930s waving our hands in the air. mostly. the straight edge guy with iMac are the uber geek are excluded. do you know the Nazis were all big into health and the environment, ate organic food [ but no, Hitler was not a vegetarian ]. > Broaden your horizons, some of us buy PCs that are available on the market and don't > have time or money to buy new OSs. (Macintosh is very expensive in Portugal) facts; Linux is free. it does everything that you can do with a PC and more. And not crash. it is not party to an exploitative capitalist bully boy system. you can put a Mac on the web for less than 50 quid using a free OS [ from Apple who have been awarded for their business ethics ]. i'll give you one for free if you will give me your PC so that we can liberate it into a Linux. computers as a whole are very environmentally unfriendly. non-GMO soy ink and managed forestry paper beat them hands done. but then how elese would i have come into your lives, darlings? actually, there is a way to get rid of all the GMO soya beans. it is all just a question of talk walking and applied intelligence. who do you chose to back with your money? who do you give your time to? who do you allow to cause you pain? if you talk all liberal but then invest in exploiters, abusers, second rate what does that make you? or moreso, if there exists a good cause and yet you chose to ignore it and instead support the " enemy " what does that make you? > There's nothing wrong with an or Joe-ess, or with big and fat. oh, f*ck there is. no assumptions. they are destroying the planet with their garbage rooting diets and lifestyles in the first case and leaching the economy through the costs to the healthcare system through their greed, addiction and unresolved psychosis in the second case. along with an additional burden onto the environment through their consumptiveness. those are objective, imperial facts. plus look at how much of their thought and life is wasted in bum hating etc. by " ordinary Joe " i define you average ignorant environmentally hazzardous consumer regardless of class, creed or colour. > I simply did not and do not see the reasoning behind the question of > " non whites " . When you look at someone do you look at their colour or do > you look at them as a person? Your post was way too heavy! I didn't > realise that was what this list was about. how long have you been a vegan, Jane? white people are intrinsicaly racist and supremist, even and may be moreso the liberals, i am wondering how free " our " society is from this taint. objective truths are sharp and frightening. most people flee from them but our consciences are aware at all times of it. too heavy for what? to be honest, there was an element of wind up that would have led to a bit of laugh after provoking some deeper thoughts. > Nice Responce Jane...this list is about lot`s of vegans gobbing off their > opinions and amusing, annoying, frustrating and hopefully enlightening > each other on occassion. that is about right! the internet is microcosm without burgers. and over run with bill gates acolytes. mr bIg uses a Wintel PC, secretly wishes he was a mac user, and conscienciously know he should uses Linux but excludes it on the basis that you can run DreamWeaver on it. should have guessed. did you know, one of Steve Jobs [ Apple's CEO ] big love affair was with a vegan chick. > You never seemed to acknowledge my reply. > I'll say it again, the official definition of vegan says it leaves the > aking of honey to the individuals consciousness. i answered that fully. The Vegan Society is merely self-elected organisation and in no way " the official " voice of veganism. they are just one vegan voice and not necessarly correct. *especially* when you form a society, enevitably you become involved in politiking and compromises for the masses. this adulterates the message. what ever has been written was just the product of one group of people at one time and may not apply. until a bee comes and delivers a jar of honey at your front door and takes a pound away for it, you cant have honey without animal exploitation and suffering [ note the fullstop to follow ]. even at a homemade level. i know this. i grew up playing with hives [ ... and i did not get them off my girlfriend ;-) ]. regurgited bees spit [ made at considerable unrewarded effort on the bees part ] is a vegetable? what seed does it grow from. what is the definition of vegan? someone who eats only foods of a vegetable nature. honey is an animal product. it is produced my an animal. personally, think bees are one of the more beautiful and interesting creatures on this planet. they complete defy our understanding of engineering and aerodynamic laws [ which is cool enough on its own ]. we have much to learn from there organisation structures and environmental accountabilities. and they have balls enough to pick at fight, at the cost of their life, with someone several thousand times as big as them. that's my type of bug! it is amazing that no one started a religion to worship them instead of whining self-centred feline killers or anything else. if i was to do the mileage they do to make a dinner, i would be extremely pissed off if someone came along and stole it. in fact, they are too but it is only because the predator that steals it is several thousand bigger and dumber that humans can get away with stealing it. that is not vegan ethics. john * how PC is your PC? 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Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Dear John, Those answers were Tom's now it's Joana writing. From what I could extract out of your message and enraged replies is that you have a big problem with the world as a whole and you haven't been able yet to come to terms with the fact that people think differently. I'm permanently trying not to become an arrogant self righteous vegan because and don't want to be just like all those people that laugh in my face when I say I care about animals. A difference in attitude lends reason to your arguments. As for your questions about race and PC choice I also don't see the point. I think what you are really looking for there is an answer to what social classes get into veganism. It's a well known fact that in European countries the wealthy classes are white dominated ( for obvious reasons). So your question should really be how rich are you in this vegan network? I really don't see why race is important. I, for instance, am not white. What does that make of me? A strange vegan? It bothers me that the colour of my skin is so important. I thought that I wouldn't find this sort of comment in a group that is worried about basic equal basic rights for other species. Just forget about the colour issue. As for your campaigns: what would change in them to get more blacks, Asians, etc? Again you are starting with the assumption that different races are different and need different sorts of campaigns. I didn't need any special treatment. Once again I stress my conviction in that the basic problem is a class one. There are many possible reasons for this, for example, choice is difficult when there's little money despite good intentions. My best regards Joana Fisher - " john allan " <jallan " Braggs Liquid Aminos " <vegan-network > Tuesday, April 24, 2001 10:05 AM Jane's Addiction > > 2.0% Suburb > > 2.2% Rural > > 1.6% White > > 9.4% Latino (we suspect this is a statistical error) > > 3.5% Afro-American > > 8.1% Asian > > 1.7% Male > > 3.2% Female > > now that is really interesting *but* it is still not about vegans. it is > about vegetarians. > > and apart from one " translucent one " [ that is because Vaughan is so pure > he is becoming an angel ... or else just does not eat ] everyone on this > list is white. > > it says that in America there are twice as many Black vegetarians than > White vegetarians. i'd put that down to the excellent Seventh Day > Adventists and " Back to Eden " but would like to know more [ the only > Christian sect trying to walk the talk as far as animals and environemnt > go ]. that there are just as much likely to be townies and country folk? > are there any statisticts for vegan and the UK? > > * when was the last time you saw a black or even asian person used in an > advert for a wholefood/vegetarian/veg society? > > > Who says it's white dominated? How many people do you know that > > work for any societies? > > i dont " know " any but i have been into to visit the veg soc and go to the > annual vegan conference. i did not see any black people, no black or > asians working for the socs at that time. [ interestingly quite a few > vegans at the vegetarian society though ]. > > hey, thomas or joanna ... [ do you type with one hand each or take turns > ? ] can you put paragraph spaces in your replies? it is almost impossible > to put out where your answers are. > > > Your use of the word " seems " shows an assumption that veganism is a (as you > call it) > > " white thing " . These sorts of assumptions are dangerous in their nature > particulalry > > if you go on to say > > it is not an asumption ... what is your experience? how does this list > break down? it really concerns me. > > > Vegans are vegans, they are not superior. Creating a prejudice of any sort > will not > > get us anywhere, half the reason behind most people's veganism is to defeat > prejudice > > against non-human animals. > > objectively judged, from the lessened impact on the environment, the > vegan lifestyle is far superior. is this not what we argue at length to > our criics and educate to our sympathisers? i would say that > environmental accountability is by far the most important issue of our > age. > > > Another assumption, yes Microsoft is annoying, yes its got pushy marketing > tactics. > > I wouldn't put it past Apple to be equally unethical or unenvironmental. > > Assumptoins are not very helpful. > > i dont deal in assumptions. i deal in facts or report direct personal > experiences. what proportion of black or asian vegans would you say there > are? it is a white thing by a long way. > > Microsoft were *factual* proven to guilty of crimes, anti-trust, > anti-competition, deliberating destroying smaller more virtuous companies > in a rather big court case. their actual crimes much more than stated. > > sadly, most people are just willing to go along with what is safe, > familiar and provided for them by the big corporations even if it is > proven to be damaging, exploitative and stolen from somebody else. we are > all the German citizens of the 1930s waving our hands in the air. > mostly. the straight edge guy with iMac are the uber geek are excluded. > > do you know the Nazis were all big into health and the environment, ate > organic food [ but no, Hitler was not a vegetarian ]. > > > Broaden your horizons, some of us buy PCs that are available on the market > and don't > > have time or money to buy new OSs. (Macintosh is very expensive in Portugal) > > facts; Linux is free. it does everything that you can do with a PC and > more. And not crash. it is not party to an exploitative capitalist bully > boy system. you can put a Mac on the web for less than 50 quid using a > free OS [ from Apple who have been awarded for their business ethics ]. > i'll give you one for free if you will give me your PC so that we can > liberate it into a Linux. > > computers as a whole are very environmentally unfriendly. non-GMO soy ink > and managed forestry paper beat them hands done. but then how elese would > i have come into your lives, darlings? actually, there is a way to get > rid of all the GMO soya beans. > > it is all just a question of talk walking and applied intelligence. who > do you chose to back with your money? who do you give your time to? who > do you allow to cause you pain? if you talk all liberal but then invest > in exploiters, abusers, second rate what does that make you? > > or moreso, if there exists a good cause and yet you chose to ignore it > and instead support the " enemy " what does that make you? > > > There's nothing wrong with an or Joe-ess, or with big and fat. > > oh, f*ck there is. no assumptions. > > they are destroying the planet with their garbage rooting diets and > lifestyles in the first case and leaching the economy through the costs > to the healthcare system through their greed, addiction and unresolved > psychosis in the second case. along with an additional burden onto the > environment through their consumptiveness. those are objective, imperial > facts. plus look at how much of their thought and life is wasted in bum > hating etc. by " ordinary Joe " i define you average ignorant > environmentally hazzardous consumer regardless of class, creed or colour. > > > I simply did not and do not see the reasoning behind the question of > > " non whites " . When you look at someone do you look at their colour or do > > you look at them as a person? Your post was way too heavy! I didn't > > realise that was what this list was about. > > how long have you been a vegan, Jane? white people are intrinsicaly > racist and supremist, even and may be moreso the liberals, i am wondering > how free " our " society is from this taint. objective truths are sharp and > frightening. most people flee from them but our consciences are aware at > all times of it. too heavy for what? to be honest, there was an element > of wind up that would have led to a bit of laugh after provoking some > deeper thoughts. > > > Nice Responce Jane...this list is about lot`s of vegans gobbing off their > > opinions and amusing, annoying, frustrating and hopefully enlightening > > each other on occassion. > > that is about right! the internet is microcosm without burgers. and over > run with bill gates acolytes. mr bIg uses a Wintel PC, secretly wishes he > was a mac user, and conscienciously know he should uses Linux but > excludes it on the basis that you can run DreamWeaver on it. should have > guessed. > > did you know, one of Steve Jobs [ Apple's CEO ] big love affair was with > a vegan chick. > > > You never seemed to acknowledge my reply. > > I'll say it again, the official definition of vegan says it leaves the > > aking of honey to the individuals consciousness. > > i answered that fully. > > The Vegan Society is merely self-elected organisation and in no way " the > official " voice of veganism. they are just one vegan voice and not > necessarly correct. *especially* when you form a society, enevitably you > become involved in politiking and compromises for the masses. this > adulterates the message. what ever has been written was just the product > of one group of people at one time and may not apply. > > until a bee comes and delivers a jar of honey at your front door and > takes a pound away for it, you cant have honey without animal > exploitation and suffering [ note the fullstop to follow ]. even at a > homemade level. i know this. i grew up playing with hives [ ... and i did > not get them off my girlfriend ;-) ]. > > regurgited bees spit [ made at considerable unrewarded effort on the bees > part ] is a vegetable? what seed does it grow from. > > what is the definition of vegan? > > someone who eats only foods of a vegetable nature. > > honey is an animal product. it is produced my an animal. > > personally, think bees are one of the more beautiful and interesting > creatures on this planet. they complete defy our understanding of > engineering and aerodynamic laws [ which is cool enough on its own ]. we > have much to learn from there organisation structures and environmental > accountabilities. and they have balls enough to pick at fight, at the > cost of their life, with someone several thousand times as big as them. > that's my type of bug! it is amazing that no one started a religion to > worship them instead of whining self-centred feline killers or anything > else. > > if i was to do the mileage they do to make a dinner, i would be extremely > pissed off if someone came along and stole it. in fact, they are too but > it is only because the predator that steals it is several thousand bigger > and dumber that humans can get away with stealing it. > > that is not vegan ethics. > > john > > * how PC is your PC? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 John, Does music have a place on this board? Andrew Barnes 07970 075905 -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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