Census Week [ cont. ]

[Guest guest]

where's the rage, love.

 

i am only trying to have an interesting or serious conversation rather

than talking about fat bums and vegan ice cream for a change and having a

little fun on the side.

 

so is Tom a psychic and channelling, or are you a real live person?

should we expect some Atlantian Priestess so come forward and give me

therapy next?

 

the real answer to the original question which was asked in all innocence

would have taken a hell of a less effort that all your cirumlocution.

 

i.e. i am black [ if that is what you are saying you may be Martian ] and

use a Windows PC.

 

.... or i am mixed race and use PCs, i dont know what you consider

yourself.

 

> I wouldn't find this sort of comment in a group that is worried about

> basic equal basic rights for other species.

> It bothers me that the colour of my skin is so important.

 

" this sort of comment " , what sort of comment?

 

it is not at all important, stratching his head, so what's the big issue

with it all? why cant the pair of you just come out and say, oh we are a

mixed race vegan couple. in real world terms, that is really new and

interesting. hopefully even.

 

[ personally ] i am very white [ pure bred jock as far back as any

peasant can tell ], MacHead by default but a vocal/active supporter of

Open Source Software platforms. and that means Linux not pirating

software Mr annoymouse bIg ... tut tut tut.

 

> Again you are starting with the assumption that different races

> are different and need different sorts of campaigns.

 

fook yes. for a start they need books written in their own language.

 

i content that it would be a much better investment of limited fund for

vegan/animal right societies to invest in campaigning in the developing

nations instead of suckling up to the progeny of the privileged class of

the west and turning themselves into media whores to assure the coverage

required to sustain the cash flow necessary to pay for their

translatlantic flights and big budget ad campaigns.

 

the same investment would reap 1,000 more if spent in a developing

nations. instead they give the battle away to prophets of the consumer

society. the market in the West is saturated with the vegan animal rights

message. it is time to turn attention to the rest of the world, as any

good colonialist would tell you.

 

i think that you you may be right about elements of class, or are you?

this is something that the Notorious BIG brought up before, wasn't it?

 

if you want to add class and wealth into the equation, OK. i dont make it

into the A or B list. [ council house, 2nd poorest borough in Europe, no

further education, income somewhere around subsistence level ].

 

* so is that black, middle class, PC owner married to white middle class

PC owner?

 

* what is your family income?

 

hey, it is Census Week this week back in Blighty. why do you think this

is on my mind? if y'all had not been so up tight i would have used it to

lead into a joke spoof psychic reading of e-vegan personality types

according to the PC and modem rates you used. it is a tool in humour to

lead people along story line to achieve a response at the end of it ...

but they have to play the game to get to the end. some people, no humour.

 

to put a value like " enraged " onto my mails is a slippery slur from out

your own mind. Mens Acteus vs Mens Rea and all that.

 

my experience of black upper classes, limited to West African, admittedly

is that there are sod all vegans out there and their societies will have

to evolve a long way before such values become common place. " oh, what

was the bump in the road under the Mercedes, dear? " " Don't worry

darling, it was only a leper. " " Well, try steering round them in the

future will you? " . i was a driver for a big business man and chief for a

while. but i have to say that there is an active Theosophical Society

that has turn a few cool vegetarians. [ met an interesting Admiral from

the Nigerian Navy that was into all that ].

 

pretty much the same is true Indians [ millions of *true* generation

after generation vegetarians ] and if you want to tate class, racism,

intolerance and arrogance; read Gandhi on Indians. East Asians, rare

outside of monasteries. cant say anything of the black middle classes of

America, no direct experience. only met tiny amounts of radical East

Europeans and Latin peoples. understandable in a society where they only

had two vegetables in the first place and where the food is so good in

the second.

 

so my point still stands, it seems to be that veganism is predominantly a

white western european thing spreading by influence of afluence and

cultural domination. is that to say it is a higher evolutionary step or a

product of the highest evolved cultural?

 

i wonder if it is rather a Protestant thing all wrapped up in self denial?

one can be right without being righteous.

 

* how many people from Catholic upbringing?

 

in many cases the greatest humility is to accept one's true value and

worth. nor does that need to be arrogance, if that is what you are

infering of me. vegan are great. it is pretty much the most wonderful and

evolved [evolving ] culture yet produced by humanity and i feel has yet

to flower.

 

it is not that you do not see the point but that you chose to ignore it,

avoid it, think yourself above it ... and instead chose to find a far

lesser one amongst what i write.

 

you can forget about an issue like colour when it is such a divide in a

world such as our's. where the tone of one's skin can determine

acceptibity and progress or outcaste [sic] and failure.

 

generally, i find that the only coloured people that want to forget about

colour are those that wish to forget about the plight of minority classes

and share in the wealth, power and privilege of the dominant white

protestant classes. i dont know if this is so in your case, but if it is

AND you remain vegan, that is very interesting also.

 

i promise you i have no intention of campaigning. my only aspiration is

to be invited to interesting dinner middle class parties to play the

clown - a bit of local colour - for the sake of a free meal.

 

saves washing up as well.

 

john

 

 

 

> Dear John,

> Those answers were Tom's now it's Joana writing.

> From what I could extract out of your message and

> enraged replies is that you have a big problem with

> the world as a whole and you haven't been able yet

> to come to terms with the fact that people think differently.

> I'm permanently trying not to become an arrogant self righteous

> vegan because and don't want to be just like all those people

> that laugh in my face when I say I care about animals. A difference

> in attitude lends reason to your arguments.

> As for your questions about race and PC choice I also don't see

> the point. I think what you are really looking for there is an

> answer to what social classes get into veganism. It's a well known

> fact that in European countries the wealthy classes are white dominated

> ( for obvious reasons). So your question should really be how rich are

> you in this vegan network? I really don't see why race is important. I,

> for instance, am not white. What does that make of me? A strange vegan?

> It bothers me that the colour of my skin is so important. I thought that

> I wouldn't find this sort of comment in a group that is worried about

> basic equal basic rights for other species. Just forget about the colour

> issue. As for your campaigns: what would change in them to get more blacks,

> Asians, etc? Again you are starting with the assumption that different races

> are different and need different sorts of campaigns.

> I didn't need any special

> treatment. Once again I stress my conviction in that the basic problem is a

> class one. There are many possible reasons for this, for example, choice

> is difficult when there's little money despite good intentions.

> My best regards

> Joana Fisher

[Guest guest]

discriminate (TREAT DIFFERENTLY) verb

to treat a person or particular group of people differently, esp. in a worse

way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin

colour, religion, sex, etc.

DISAPPROVING She felt she had been discriminated against because of her age.

love from the strange psychic possibly white, possibly brown possibly black

vegan (interesting?), possibly middle class, possibly not couple living in

an Iberian society :-)