Guest guest Posted April 28, 2001 Report Share Posted April 28, 2001 i find it soo hard to understand people like that when i try my hardest not to harm anything. i feel guilty about using too much water when i have baths, it is a bit of an addiction of mine cos i can spend hours reading and keep filling the water up to keep warm. when they dont give a second thought to any of their actions. my parents had a dinner party tonite and i was the only non meat eater at the table. they were eating chicken legs and all i could think about was the number of animals that died to feed them. it felt like sitting round a table with canibals. the only suggestion i can make to sort out world leaders is to give them some of their own medicine. they need some good old torture and a bit of starvation. that might put them back on track. i dont have a reply to my mum when she says the monarchy bring a lot of tourism (money) to britain therfore we cant get rid of them. she is not a big fan but can only see tourism. i on the other hand think they should be shot or at least be a bit poorer like the spanish monarchy who go round on mopeds, which is pritty cool. can anybody give me a good reason why the monarchy should be poor cos the country would loose a lot of money and it is a 'british tradition'. there must be soo many reasons to get rid of them but i cant think of any. laura vegan-network, EBbrewpunx@c... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Search this site In this section > > <A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479754,00. html " >Vanished Briton leaves family baffled</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479790,00. html " >Daring escape of the Karmapa</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479896,00. html " >Hidden > powerhouse of the US presidency</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479795,00. html " >Stone Age find will not halt dam</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479796,00. html " >One small step > for Singapore</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479798,00. html " >Islanders fail to stop US bombs</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479806,00. html " >Six Red Cross workers killed in > Congo attack</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479793,00. html " >11th-hour gremlins dog Tito's star trek</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479792,00. html " >TV jester crashes the > election party</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479812,00. html " >In brief</A><A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479791,00. html " >Berlusconi to sue Economist for 'unfit' tag</A> > > > > Lions face new threat: they're rich, American and they've got guns > > Schwarzkopf and Bush Snr mobilise opposition as Botswana moves to save its > big cats > > <A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/ " >Special report: George Bush's America</A> > > Chris McGreal in Johannesburg > Friday April 27, 2001 > The Guardian > > You might call the lions of southern Africa potential Bush meat. The former > American president, George Bush senior, and his old Gulf War ally, General > " Stormin' Norman " Schwarzkopf, are pleading with the government of Botswana > to be allowed to revive their old alliance, this time in pursuit of Africa's > endangered big cats. Mr Bush is among prominent members of Safari Club > International (SCI) who have written to the Botswanan authorities asking them > to lift a ban slapped on trophy hunting of lions in February. Arizona- based > SCI describes itself as the largest hunting organisation in the world and > people who do not like what it does as " animal protection extremists " . Mr > Bush's former vice-president, Dan Quayle, is also among the signatories along > with Gen Schwarzkopf. Both men went hunting in Botswana last year, although > it is not known if they bagged lions on that occasion. Rich Americans, > Europeans and Japanese pay about ?0,000 a time to kill a lion in Botswana. > The government usually permits the shooting of about 50 lions a year by > trophy hunters but decided to impose the ban in part because American > shooters favour lions with thick manes for their walls, leading to a > disproportionate killing of mature males. The shortage of such beasts is now > so great that hunters have been making use of a mane-extension service back > in the US where fake hair is weaved in to give their trophies an extra > flourish before they hang the heads. Among those who campaigned for a ban on > lion hunting in Botswana is Derek Joubert, the country's leading chronicler > of big cats. " I've been studying lions in northern Botswana for 20 years and > watching them systematically decline in population size and health primarily, > perhaps even solely, as the result of hunting, " he said. " We've also seen > some bizarre situations arising. Hunters target the primary males. When they > disappear the male cubs don't leave the pride, they're not chased out. So > we've seen these young males breeding with their sisters and their mothers > because the trophy males have been killed. " Mr Joubert estimates that the > number of lions in Botswana has declined by about two-thirds in 10 years. > That is average for the continent. Exact numbers of lions are notoriously > difficult to measure but there is broad consensus among conservationists and > governments that the population in Africa has fallen from about 50,000 to > less than 15,000 over the past decade. The surviving lions are largely > confined to four viable populations in southern and east Africa. Peasant > farmers also had a hand in the Botswana ban. The government had already > forbidden them to shoot lions that attack cattle. The farmers said it was > unfair to permit rich hunters to go on killing lions for sport when peasants > were prevented from protecting their precious livestock. " There's no other > reason to shoot a lion other than ego. As a hunter you want to feel great so > you can hang it on the wall and your mates say: 'Wow, what a man', " Mr > Joubert said. " I'm not particularly anti-hunting. I can't personally see the > point in going out and shooting a lion. But I do have a problem with the > ethics of it and the sustainability of it. " The nature of lion hunting has > changed from colonial days. Faster vehicles and high powered rifles have > further reduced the already bad odds against the animals. On top of that, the > idea of three week hunts deep into the bush in the hope, but not necessarily > the expectation, of bagging something big have given way to the concept of a > sure kill. " It's very difficult for a professional hunter to turn around to > some guy who's paid $30,000 to kill a lion and say: 'Don't shoot that one > he's too young, he's not ready'. The guy's going to say, I came here to kill > a lion and that's what I'm going to do, " said Mr Joubert. At least there is > still something of the hunt left in Botswana. South Africa offers the > notorious " canned lion " service in which a trapped animal is virtually > delivered to the barrel of a gun. Many of the lions are bred in captivity > solely as bait for hunters and then hardly pursued at all. They are released > into what are no more than fields surrounded by fences and " hunted " . They > have no chance of escape. On one occasion captured on video a lioness was > separated from her cubs and shot just yards away. Last year a pride of > problem lions - they had been eating livestock - in the state-owned Kruger > National Park was sold to a hunting tour operator for delivery to his > clients. Tales of horrendous suffering by the animals abound. Some supposed > hunters are so inexpert with guns that they take a dozen shots to kill a > lion. Sometimes the killing takes place on the same game farms that foreign > tourists believe to be conservation centres. While the parks emphasise the > breeding of lions to the visitors waving cameras, over the hill the hunters > are shooting them with guns. The state-run South African tourist board even > advertised " canned lion " hunts. " Go for the ultimate trophy and score in > South Africa, " said one advert. " It is always in season in South Africa, > where the world's finest hunting is in the bag. " Opponents of the ban in > Botswana say it will have a big effect on the local economy. Lion hunting is > estimated to be worth about ?m a year but most of the profits go to hunting > operators. The government earns just ?,500 for each lion bagged, a fraction > of what the hunter pays, even though all hunting takes place on state- owned > reserves and the animals are the property of the government. Safari Club > International, which calls itself a " charitable organisation of hunter > conservationists " with 33,000 members across the globe, is unlikely to get > its way. The tide appears to have swung against lion hunting in Botswana and > conservationists are confident that when the ban comes up for review in a > year it will be reimposed. While SCI mobilises politicians, other prominent > voices have spoken up in favour of the ban on lion hunting. Among those who > have written to Botswana's wildlife department in support is the actor Kevin > Costner, star of Dances with Wolves, about the devastating impact of hunting > on America's bison population. SCI referred questions about lions in Botswana > and the prominent support for a lifting of the hunting ban to its chief > executive, Rudy Rosen, who was not available. But Gen Schwarzkopf is clearly > a valued member. The organisation recently donated $10,000 in the general's > name to a Grizzly bear information project. Under threat from the gun > Rhinos > There were once hundreds of species but only five exist today and four of > them are endangered. During the 1970s as many as half the world's remaining > rhinos disappeared. Now fewer than 12,000 survive in Asia and Africa. The > northern white rhino is reduced to only 30 individuals in the wild. In Africa > poaching has been so ruthless that black rhino numbers have fallen from > 60,000 to 2,500 in 22 years. Horn from African rhinos is worth?,300 to > ?,300 per kg, and horn from Asian rhinos up to ?2,000 per kg. Elephants > The demand for ivory was behind the decline of the African elephant, which > fell from 2m animals in 1970 to between 286,000 and 543,000 today. The number > of Asian elephants have been reduced to between 34,000 and 51,000 animals in > the wild. Hunting for meat, hides and bones has affected both breeds. Orang > Utans > Fewer than 30,000 exist in the world today, a 30% to 50% decline which has > occurred in the past decade. The vast majority can be found in Borneo, where > they are protected. Hunting for food and body parts has taken its toll and > the trade in body parts, particularly skulls, continues despite the efforts > of the authorities to eradicate it. Tigers > A population estimate in 1996 was between 4,600 and 7,200 in the wild, and > there are now no more than 4,500 Indian tigers. The Siberian tiger is the > world's largest cat but only 200 remain, mostly in Russia. The demand for > tiger products has increased with the bones and other body parts being used > for traditional Chinese medicines and as tonics or cures for ailments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 No one should be rich while others have nothing.There are only 24 hrs in the day ,If A gets £5 per hour maybe B can earn £10 or£20 but how can anyone earn £50per hour. Its not possible to work five times harder.Yet footballers earn ridiculous amounts. No one should have the audacity to own 5 cars when others have none.No one should be allowed to own 4 houses while others are on the streets.These super rich people are selfish and greedy .they are taking too much from the planet{how much water do they use for their vast gardens,How much electricity for their mansions with outside lights/security cameras etc.} the Queen may bring in tourists but so do Zoos ,The Pennines ,Museums etc the last two are worthwhile but zoos are cruel so any money generated is irrelevant .the Queen doesn't really workDoing visits is hardly onerous.she kills wildlife and has too many housesand untill rcently did not even pay taxes to benefit the general public!The only people who like royalty seem to be the kind of people who hero worship the rich and famous. No one is better than me so I wont put these people on a pedestal or allow them to think that they matter.How much harm does the Queen et al do to the disadvantaged in this country who have nothing but see the rich flaunting their wealth.No wonder we have suicidesNo amount of money brought in by tourists can ever justify the greed of the royals/Pop stars /Top Actors etc They are only People after all.Prostitutes bring money to soho Is that a good reason for keeping them?? I met a really important person the other day and I made an effort to see her No Not a rich celebrity who wouldn't care if I was there or not It was a vegan who i had only known thro' emails.We should stop hero worshipping the rich greedy celebrities and show the value of real vegan people [friends ]. I met Lesley and family.I have twice managed to avouid seeing the Queen As a child we were given the day off school to see her visiting the town. My friend and I went swimming Much better. Angie Original Message ----- " Laura " <laurahesse <vegan-network > Saturday, April 28, 2001 10:06 PM Re: murders just live in a different world > i find it soo hard to understand people like that when i try my hardest > not to harm anything. i feel guilty about using too much water when i > have baths, it is a bit of an addiction of mine cos i can spend hours > reading and keep filling the water up to keep warm. > when they dont give a second thought to any of their actions. > > my parents had a dinner party tonite and i was the only non meat eater > at the table. they were eating chicken legs and all i could think about > was the number of animals that died to feed them. it felt like sitting > round a table with canibals. > > the only suggestion i can make to sort out world leaders is to give them > some of their own medicine. they need some good old torture and a bit > of starvation. that might put them back on track. > > i dont have a reply to my mum when she says the monarchy bring a lot > of tourism (money) to britain therfore we cant get rid of them. she is not > a big fan but can only see tourism. i on the other hand think they should > be shot or at least be a bit poorer like the spanish monarchy who go > round on mopeds, which is pritty cool. can anybody give me a good > reason why the monarchy should be poor cos the country would loose a > lot of money and it is a 'british tradition'. there must be soo many > reasons to get rid of them but i cant think of any. > > laura > > > > vegan-network, EBbrewpunx@c... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Search this site > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this section > > > > <A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479754,00. > html " >Vanished Briton leaves family baffled</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479790,00. > html " >Daring escape of the Karmapa</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479896,00. > html " >Hidden > > powerhouse of the US presidency</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479795,00. > html " >Stone Age find will not halt dam</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479796,00. > html " >One small step > > for Singapore</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479798,00. > html " >Islanders fail to stop US bombs</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479806,00. > html " >Six Red Cross workers killed in > > Congo attack</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479793,00. > html " >11th-hour gremlins dog Tito's star trek</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479792,00. > html " >TV jester crashes the > > election party</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479812,00. > html " >In brief</A><A > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479791,00. > html " >Berlusconi to sue Economist for 'unfit' tag</A> > > > > > > > > Lions face new threat: they're rich, American and they've got > guns > > > > Schwarzkopf and Bush Snr mobilise opposition as Botswana moves > to save its > > big cats > > > > <A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/ " >Special report: George > Bush's America</A> > > > > Chris McGreal in Johannesburg > > Friday April 27, 2001 > > The Guardian > > > > You might call the lions of southern Africa potential Bush meat. The > former > > American president, George Bush senior, and his old Gulf War ally, > General > > " Stormin' Norman " Schwarzkopf, are pleading with the government of > Botswana > > to be allowed to revive their old alliance, this time in pursuit of > Africa's > > endangered big cats. Mr Bush is among prominent members of Safari > Club > > International (SCI) who have written to the Botswanan authorities > asking them > > to lift a ban slapped on trophy hunting of lions in February. Arizona- > based > > SCI describes itself as the largest hunting organisation in the world > and > > people who do not like what it does as " animal protection extremists " . > Mr > > Bush's former vice-president, Dan Quayle, is also among the > signatories along > > with Gen Schwarzkopf. Both men went hunting in Botswana last year, > although > > it is not known if they bagged lions on that occasion. Rich > Americans, > > Europeans and Japanese pay about ?0,000 a time to kill a lion in > Botswana. > > The government usually permits the shooting of about 50 lions a year > by > > trophy hunters but decided to impose the ban in part because > American > > shooters favour lions with thick manes for their walls, leading to a > > disproportionate killing of mature males. The shortage of such beasts > is now > > so great that hunters have been making use of a mane-extension > service back > > in the US where fake hair is weaved in to give their trophies an extra > > flourish before they hang the heads. Among those who campaigned > for a ban on > > lion hunting in Botswana is Derek Joubert, the country's leading > chronicler > > of big cats. " I've been studying lions in northern Botswana for 20 > years and > > watching them systematically decline in population size and health > primarily, > > perhaps even solely, as the result of hunting, " he said. " We've also > seen > > some bizarre situations arising. Hunters target the primary males. > When they > > disappear the male cubs don't leave the pride, they're not chased out. > So > > we've seen these young males breeding with their sisters and their > mothers > > because the trophy males have been killed. " Mr Joubert estimates > that the > > number of lions in Botswana has declined by about two-thirds in 10 > years. > > That is average for the continent. Exact numbers of lions are > notoriously > > difficult to measure but there is broad consensus among > conservationists and > > governments that the population in Africa has fallen from about > 50,000 to > > less than 15,000 over the past decade. The surviving lions are largely > > confined to four viable populations in southern and east Africa. > Peasant > > farmers also had a hand in the Botswana ban. The government had > already > > forbidden them to shoot lions that attack cattle. The farmers said it > was > > unfair to permit rich hunters to go on killing lions for sport when > peasants > > were prevented from protecting their precious livestock. " There's no > other > > reason to shoot a lion other than ego. As a hunter you want to feel > great so > > you can hang it on the wall and your mates say: 'Wow, what a man', " > Mr > > Joubert said. " I'm not particularly anti-hunting. I can't personally see > the > > point in going out and shooting a lion. But I do have a problem with > the > > ethics of it and the sustainability of it. " The nature of lion hunting has > > changed from colonial days. Faster vehicles and high powered rifles > have > > further reduced the already bad odds against the animals. On top of > that, the > > idea of three week hunts deep into the bush in the hope, but not > necessarily > > the expectation, of bagging something big have given way to the > concept of a > > sure kill. " It's very difficult for a professional hunter to turn around to > > some guy who's paid $30,000 to kill a lion and say: 'Don't shoot that > one > > he's too young, he's not ready'. The guy's going to say, I came here > to kill > > a lion and that's what I'm going to do, " said Mr Joubert. At least there > is > > still something of the hunt left in Botswana. South Africa offers the > > notorious " canned lion " service in which a trapped animal is virtually > > delivered to the barrel of a gun. Many of the lions are bred in captivity > > solely as bait for hunters and then hardly pursued at all. They are > released > > into what are no more than fields surrounded by fences and " hunted " . > They > > have no chance of escape. On one occasion captured on video a > lioness was > > separated from her cubs and shot just yards away. Last year a pride > of > > problem lions - they had been eating livestock - in the state-owned > Kruger > > National Park was sold to a hunting tour operator for delivery to his > > clients. Tales of horrendous suffering by the animals abound. Some > supposed > > hunters are so inexpert with guns that they take a dozen shots to kill > a > > lion. Sometimes the killing takes place on the same game farms that > foreign > > tourists believe to be conservation centres. While the parks > emphasise the > > breeding of lions to the visitors waving cameras, over the hill the > hunters > > are shooting them with guns. The state-run South African tourist > board even > > advertised " canned lion " hunts. " Go for the ultimate trophy and score > in > > South Africa, " said one advert. " It is always in season in South > Africa, > > where the world's finest hunting is in the bag. " Opponents of the ban > in > > Botswana say it will have a big effect on the local economy. Lion > hunting is > > estimated to be worth about ?m a year but most of the profits go to > hunting > > operators. The government earns just ?,500 for each lion bagged, a > fraction > > of what the hunter pays, even though all hunting takes place on state- > owned > > reserves and the animals are the property of the government. Safari > Club > > International, which calls itself a " charitable organisation of hunter > > conservationists " with 33,000 members across the globe, is unlikely > to get > > its way. The tide appears to have swung against lion hunting in > Botswana and > > conservationists are confident that when the ban comes up for review > in a > > year it will be reimposed. While SCI mobilises politicians, other > prominent > > voices have spoken up in favour of the ban on lion hunting. Among > those who > > have written to Botswana's wildlife department in support is the actor > Kevin > > Costner, star of Dances with Wolves, about the devastating impact of > hunting > > on America's bison population. SCI referred questions about lions in > Botswana > > and the prominent support for a lifting of the hunting ban to its chief > > executive, Rudy Rosen, who was not available. But Gen > Schwarzkopf is clearly > > a valued member. The organisation recently donated $10,000 in the > general's > > name to a Grizzly bear information project. Under threat from the gun > > Rhinos > > There were once hundreds of species but only five exist today and > four of > > them are endangered. During the 1970s as many as half the world's > remaining > > rhinos disappeared. Now fewer than 12,000 survive in Asia and > Africa. The > > northern white rhino is reduced to only 30 individuals in the wild. In > Africa > > poaching has been so ruthless that black rhino numbers have fallen > from > > 60,000 to 2,500 in 22 years. Horn from African rhinos is worth?,300 to > > ?,300 per kg, and horn from Asian rhinos up to ?2,000 per kg. > Elephants > > The demand for ivory was behind the decline of the African elephant, > which > > fell from 2m animals in 1970 to between 286,000 and 543,000 today. > The number > > of Asian elephants have been reduced to between 34,000 and 51,000 > animals in > > the wild. Hunting for meat, hides and bones has affected both breeds. > Orang > > Utans > > Fewer than 30,000 exist in the world today, a 30% to 50% decline > which has > > occurred in the past decade. The vast majority can be found in > Borneo, where > > they are protected. Hunting for food and body parts has taken its toll > and > > the trade in body parts, particularly skulls, continues despite the > efforts > > of the authorities to eradicate it. Tigers > > A population estimate in 1996 was between 4,600 and 7,200 in the > wild, and > > there are now no more than 4,500 Indian tigers. The Siberian tiger is > the > > world's largest cat but only 200 remain, mostly in Russia. The > demand for > > tiger products has increased with the bones and other body parts > being used > > for traditional Chinese medicines and as tonics or cures for ailments. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 Probably got more chance with charly, since he sometimes spouts on about environmental issues, before he goes and kills some more animals. The way they act makes you wonder what sort of world they all live in. Just another example of people who could be doing so much more. On another note, with the recent appointments of new lords into the House of Lords, there has been some debate because the people chosen weren't really " of the people " that Tony had said he wanted. What occured to me was that, under the old hereditary system, you had no idea how the next lord was going to turn out, so instead of being able to appoint their cronies, the government could be faced with anyone (which I imagine is how that hippy guy - can't remember his name - is a lord). off to bed, Rob vegan-network, " Thomas and Joana Fisher " <tomjo@n...> wrote: > Maybe if the Queen was vegan and she imposed it (veganism) as a law of the > land????!!!! ;-) Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 My dad used to say that " you're as good as and no better than anyone else " . I always remember this phrase in life when people try to brow beat me, or put me down. This is also true of the many celebrities that the UK press seem to be making so very powerful and ultra-famous. My biggest annoyance is with Posh and Becks. Okay, so in all fairness he is an excellent footballer but at the end of the day that's all he does. Kicks a ball around some grass. Sorry to unglamorise it, but that's basically what it is!!! As for Posh, well, can she sing? This question has always been up for debate and she is always the butt of jokes and YET she is stinking rich, in every newspaper and magazine and often on the TV. She is famous for being famous. Between the two of them you see them ridiculously spending money and I once saw Posh on TV in an expensive jewellers in London and she held an item up to the camera and said " Look David, it's got a price label on it " . She said afterwards that he buys things even when they have no label on them, because money is no object. I expect nearly her entire audience couldn't agree with that when they go shopping! She was just showing off. I use them merely as an example of the new " heros " who have lavish holidays and homes and lifestyles. But at the end of the day WE give them the money to do it! But like my dad would have said, they're no better than you and me. If I won the lottery I would be very much like Spacevegan. I don't drive so I wouldn't have a line of cars on my driveway, but I would buy a home in the country where I would find the quietness and fresh air so idyllic. I found a village like this last week when my husband and I visited it for the day, but he said that it was too quiet. I felt quite sad and I detest living in the town. I've always hoped that one day I would live in a country village. I would love to have a nice plot of land and keep a few animals. Just me out and about with my wellies on enjoying the simple qualities of life. Jane - " Angie Wright " <angiewright <vegan-network > Sunday, April 29, 2001 12:10 AM Re: Re: murders just live in a different world > No one should be rich while others have nothing.There are only 24 hrs in the > day ,If A gets £5 per hour maybe B can earn £10 or£20 but how can anyone > earn £50per hour. Its not possible to work five times harder.Yet > footballers earn ridiculous amounts. No one should have the audacity to > own 5 cars when others have none.No one should be allowed to own 4 houses > while others are on the streets.These super rich people are selfish and > greedy .they are taking too much from the planet{how much water do they use > for their vast gardens,How much electricity for their mansions with outside > lights/security cameras etc.} > the Queen may bring in tourists but so do Zoos ,The Pennines ,Museums etc > the last two are worthwhile but zoos are cruel so any money generated is > irrelevant .the Queen doesn't really workDoing visits is hardly onerous.she > kills wildlife and has too many housesand untill rcently did not even pay > taxes to benefit the general public!The only people who like royalty seem > to be the kind of people who hero worship the rich and famous. No one is > better than me so I wont put these people on a pedestal or allow them to > think that they matter.How much harm does the Queen et al do to the > disadvantaged in this country who have nothing but see the rich flaunting > their wealth.No wonder we have suicidesNo amount of money brought in by > tourists can ever justify the greed of the royals/Pop stars /Top Actors etc > They are only People after all.Prostitutes bring money to soho Is that a > good reason for keeping them?? > I met a really important person the other day and I made an > effort to see her No Not a rich celebrity who wouldn't care if I was there > or not It was a vegan who i had only known thro' emails.We should stop hero > worshipping the rich greedy celebrities and show the value of real vegan > people [friends ]. I met Lesley and family.I have twice managed to avouid > seeing the Queen As a child we were given the day off school to see her > visiting the town. My friend and I went swimming Much better. Angie > > > > > Original Message ----- > " Laura " <laurahesse > <vegan-network > > Saturday, April 28, 2001 10:06 PM > Re: murders just live in a different world > > > > i find it soo hard to understand people like that when i try my hardest > > not to harm anything. i feel guilty about using too much water when i > > have baths, it is a bit of an addiction of mine cos i can spend hours > > reading and keep filling the water up to keep warm. > > when they dont give a second thought to any of their actions. > > > > my parents had a dinner party tonite and i was the only non meat eater > > at the table. they were eating chicken legs and all i could think about > > was the number of animals that died to feed them. it felt like sitting > > round a table with canibals. > > > > the only suggestion i can make to sort out world leaders is to give them > > some of their own medicine. they need some good old torture and a bit > > of starvation. that might put them back on track. > > > > i dont have a reply to my mum when she says the monarchy bring a lot > > of tourism (money) to britain therfore we cant get rid of them. she is not > > a big fan but can only see tourism. i on the other hand think they should > > be shot or at least be a bit poorer like the spanish monarchy who go > > round on mopeds, which is pritty cool. can anybody give me a good > > reason why the monarchy should be poor cos the country would loose a > > lot of money and it is a 'british tradition'. there must be soo many > > reasons to get rid of them but i cant think of any. > > > > laura > > > > > > > > vegan-network, EBbrewpunx@c... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Search this site > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this section > > > > > > <A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479754,00. > > html " >Vanished Briton leaves family baffled</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479790,00. > > html " >Daring escape of the Karmapa</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479896,00. > > html " >Hidden > > > powerhouse of the US presidency</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479795,00. > > html " >Stone Age find will not halt dam</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479796,00. > > html " >One small step > > > for Singapore</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479798,00. > > html " >Islanders fail to stop US bombs</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479806,00. > > html " >Six Red Cross workers killed in > > > Congo attack</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479793,00. > > html " >11th-hour gremlins dog Tito's star trek</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479792,00. > > html " >TV jester crashes the > > > election party</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479812,00. > > html " >In brief</A><A > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479791,00. > > html " >Berlusconi to sue Economist for 'unfit' tag</A> > > > > > > > > > > > > Lions face new threat: they're rich, American and they've got > > guns > > > > > > Schwarzkopf and Bush Snr mobilise opposition as Botswana moves > > to save its > > > big cats > > > > > > <A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/ " >Special report: George > > Bush's America</A> > > > > > > Chris McGreal in Johannesburg > > > Friday April 27, 2001 > > > The Guardian > > > > > > You might call the lions of southern Africa potential Bush meat. The > > former > > > American president, George Bush senior, and his old Gulf War ally, > > General > > > " Stormin' Norman " Schwarzkopf, are pleading with the government of > > Botswana > > > to be allowed to revive their old alliance, this time in pursuit of > > Africa's > > > endangered big cats. Mr Bush is among prominent members of Safari > > Club > > > International (SCI) who have written to the Botswanan authorities > > asking them > > > to lift a ban slapped on trophy hunting of lions in February. Arizona- > > based > > > SCI describes itself as the largest hunting organisation in the world > > and > > > people who do not like what it does as " animal protection extremists " . > > Mr > > > Bush's former vice-president, Dan Quayle, is also among the > > signatories along > > > with Gen Schwarzkopf. Both men went hunting in Botswana last year, > > although > > > it is not known if they bagged lions on that occasion. Rich > > Americans, > > > Europeans and Japanese pay about ?0,000 a time to kill a lion in > > Botswana. > > > The government usually permits the shooting of about 50 lions a year > > by > > > trophy hunters but decided to impose the ban in part because > > American > > > shooters favour lions with thick manes for their walls, leading to a > > > disproportionate killing of mature males. The shortage of such beasts > > is now > > > so great that hunters have been making use of a mane-extension > > service back > > > in the US where fake hair is weaved in to give their trophies an extra > > > flourish before they hang the heads. Among those who campaigned > > for a ban on > > > lion hunting in Botswana is Derek Joubert, the country's leading > > chronicler > > > of big cats. " I've been studying lions in northern Botswana for 20 > > years and > > > watching them systematically decline in population size and health > > primarily, > > > perhaps even solely, as the result of hunting, " he said. " We've also > > seen > > > some bizarre situations arising. Hunters target the primary males. > > When they > > > disappear the male cubs don't leave the pride, they're not chased out. > > So > > > we've seen these young males breeding with their sisters and their > > mothers > > > because the trophy males have been killed. " Mr Joubert estimates > > that the > > > number of lions in Botswana has declined by about two-thirds in 10 > > years. > > > That is average for the continent. Exact numbers of lions are > > notoriously > > > difficult to measure but there is broad consensus among > > conservationists and > > > governments that the population in Africa has fallen from about > > 50,000 to > > > less than 15,000 over the past decade. The surviving lions are largely > > > confined to four viable populations in southern and east Africa. > > Peasant > > > farmers also had a hand in the Botswana ban. The government had > > already > > > forbidden them to shoot lions that attack cattle. The farmers said it > > was > > > unfair to permit rich hunters to go on killing lions for sport when > > peasants > > > were prevented from protecting their precious livestock. " There's no > > other > > > reason to shoot a lion other than ego. As a hunter you want to feel > > great so > > > you can hang it on the wall and your mates say: 'Wow, what a man', " > > Mr > > > Joubert said. " I'm not particularly anti-hunting. I can't personally see > > the > > > point in going out and shooting a lion. But I do have a problem with > > the > > > ethics of it and the sustainability of it. " The nature of lion hunting > has > > > changed from colonial days. Faster vehicles and high powered rifles > > have > > > further reduced the already bad odds against the animals. On top of > > that, the > > > idea of three week hunts deep into the bush in the hope, but not > > necessarily > > > the expectation, of bagging something big have given way to the > > concept of a > > > sure kill. " It's very difficult for a professional hunter to turn around > to > > > some guy who's paid $30,000 to kill a lion and say: 'Don't shoot that > > one > > > he's too young, he's not ready'. The guy's going to say, I came here > > to kill > > > a lion and that's what I'm going to do, " said Mr Joubert. At least there > > is > > > still something of the hunt left in Botswana. South Africa offers the > > > notorious " canned lion " service in which a trapped animal is virtually > > > delivered to the barrel of a gun. Many of the lions are bred in > captivity > > > solely as bait for hunters and then hardly pursued at all. They are > > released > > > into what are no more than fields surrounded by fences and " hunted " . > > They > > > have no chance of escape. On one occasion captured on video a > > lioness was > > > separated from her cubs and shot just yards away. Last year a pride > > of > > > problem lions - they had been eating livestock - in the state-owned > > Kruger > > > National Park was sold to a hunting tour operator for delivery to his > > > clients. Tales of horrendous suffering by the animals abound. Some > > supposed > > > hunters are so inexpert with guns that they take a dozen shots to kill > > a > > > lion. Sometimes the killing takes place on the same game farms that > > foreign > > > tourists believe to be conservation centres. While the parks > > emphasise the > > > breeding of lions to the visitors waving cameras, over the hill the > > hunters > > > are shooting them with guns. The state-run South African tourist > > board even > > > advertised " canned lion " hunts. " Go for the ultimate trophy and score > > in > > > South Africa, " said one advert. " It is always in season in South > > Africa, > > > where the world's finest hunting is in the bag. " Opponents of the ban > > in > > > Botswana say it will have a big effect on the local economy. Lion > > hunting is > > > estimated to be worth about ?m a year but most of the profits go to > > hunting > > > operators. The government earns just ?,500 for each lion bagged, a > > fraction > > > of what the hunter pays, even though all hunting takes place on state- > > owned > > > reserves and the animals are the property of the government. Safari > > Club > > > International, which calls itself a " charitable organisation of hunter > > > conservationists " with 33,000 members across the globe, is unlikely > > to get > > > its way. The tide appears to have swung against lion hunting in > > Botswana and > > > conservationists are confident that when the ban comes up for review > > in a > > > year it will be reimposed. While SCI mobilises politicians, other > > prominent > > > voices have spoken up in favour of the ban on lion hunting. Among > > those who > > > have written to Botswana's wildlife department in support is the actor > > Kevin > > > Costner, star of Dances with Wolves, about the devastating impact of > > hunting > > > on America's bison population. SCI referred questions about lions in > > Botswana > > > and the prominent support for a lifting of the hunting ban to its chief > > > executive, Rudy Rosen, who was not available. But Gen > > Schwarzkopf is clearly > > > a valued member. The organisation recently donated $10,000 in the > > general's > > > name to a Grizzly bear information project. Under threat from the gun > > > Rhinos > > > There were once hundreds of species but only five exist today and > > four of > > > them are endangered. During the 1970s as many as half the world's > > remaining > > > rhinos disappeared. Now fewer than 12,000 survive in Asia and > > Africa. The > > > northern white rhino is reduced to only 30 individuals in the wild. In > > Africa > > > poaching has been so ruthless that black rhino numbers have fallen > > from > > > 60,000 to 2,500 in 22 years. Horn from African rhinos is worth?,300 to > > > ?,300 per kg, and horn from Asian rhinos up to ?2,000 per kg. > > Elephants > > > The demand for ivory was behind the decline of the African elephant, > > which > > > fell from 2m animals in 1970 to between 286,000 and 543,000 today. > > The number > > > of Asian elephants have been reduced to between 34,000 and 51,000 > > animals in > > > the wild. Hunting for meat, hides and bones has affected both breeds. > > Orang > > > Utans > > > Fewer than 30,000 exist in the world today, a 30% to 50% decline > > which has > > > occurred in the past decade. The vast majority can be found in > > Borneo, where > > > they are protected. Hunting for food and body parts has taken its toll > > and > > > the trade in body parts, particularly skulls, continues despite the > > efforts > > > of the authorities to eradicate it. Tigers > > > A population estimate in 1996 was between 4,600 and 7,200 in the > > wild, and > > > there are now no more than 4,500 Indian tigers. The Siberian tiger is > > the > > > world's largest cat but only 200 remain, mostly in Russia. The > > demand for > > > tiger products has increased with the bones and other body parts > > being used > > > for traditional Chinese medicines and as tonics or cures for ailments. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 In a message dated 4/28/01 2:16:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, laurahesse writes: the only suggestion i can make to sort out world leaders is to give them some of their own medicine. they need some good old torture and a bit of starvation. that might put them back on track. sorta make the leaders fight eh? i dont have a reply to my mum when she says the monarchy bring a lot of tourism (money) to britain therfore we cant get rid of them. she is not a big fan but can only see tourism. hmm..when i visited merry ol england, i certainly didn't go to see the queen mum or any of the squalling family..... to each his own i guess fraggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 I still wouldn't want her to be so rich,so lazy and so hero worshipped by people .I'm against the concept of people being looked up to as if they are of greater worth It always seems to be based on money Angie - " Thomas and Joana Fisher " <tomjo <vegan-network > Sunday, April 29, 2001 4:25 PM Re: Re: murders just live in a different world > Maybe if the Queen was vegan and she imposed it (veganism) as a law of the > land????!!!! ;-) Tom > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 My mum used to say you're as good as anyone else and probably better than most. I think vegans are generally better but no one should look down on anyone [or hero worship either]. Its about time we stopped supporting the rich Don't go to expensive football matches --it is only a game --get out and play yourself. Don't see expensive entertainers live, support amateur theatre ,act/sing yourself Dont be an observer do it for yourself Angie - " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming <vegan-network > Sunday, April 29, 2001 9:03 AM Re: Re: murders just live in a different world > My dad used to say that " you're as good as and no better than anyone else " . > I always remember this phrase in life when people try to brow beat me, or > put me down. > > This is also true of the many celebrities that the UK press seem to be > making so very powerful and ultra-famous. My biggest annoyance is with Posh > and Becks. Okay, so in all fairness he is an excellent footballer but at > the end of the day that's all he does. Kicks a ball around some grass. > Sorry to unglamorise it, but that's basically what it is!!! As for Posh, > well, can she sing? This question has always been up for debate and she is > always the butt of jokes and YET she is stinking rich, in every newspaper > and magazine and often on the TV. She is famous for being famous. Between > the two of them you see them ridiculously spending money and I once saw Posh > on TV in an expensive jewellers in London and she held an item up to the > camera and said " Look David, it's got a price label on it " . She said > afterwards that he buys things even when they have no label on them, because > money is no object. I expect nearly her entire audience couldn't agree with > that when they go shopping! She was just showing off. I use them merely as > an example of the new " heros " who have lavish holidays and homes and > lifestyles. But at the end of the day WE give them the money to do it! But > like my dad would have said, they're no better than you and me. > > If I won the lottery I would be very much like Spacevegan. I don't drive so > I wouldn't have a line of cars on my driveway, but I would buy a home in the > country where I would find the quietness and fresh air so idyllic. I found > a village like this last week when my husband and I visited it for the day, > but he said that it was too quiet. I felt quite sad and I detest living in > the town. I've always hoped that one day I would live in a country village. > I would love to have a nice plot of land and keep a few animals. Just me > out and about with my wellies on enjoying the simple qualities of life. > > Jane > - > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > <vegan-network > > Sunday, April 29, 2001 12:10 AM > Re: Re: murders just live in a different world > > > > No one should be rich while others have nothing.There are only 24 hrs in > the > > day ,If A gets £5 per hour maybe B can earn £10 or£20 but how can anyone > > earn £50per hour. Its not possible to work five times harder.Yet > > footballers earn ridiculous amounts. No one should have the audacity to > > own 5 cars when others have none.No one should be allowed to own 4 > houses > > while others are on the streets.These super rich people are selfish and > > greedy .they are taking too much from the planet{how much water do they > use > > for their vast gardens,How much electricity for their mansions with > outside > > lights/security cameras etc.} > > the Queen may bring in tourists but so do Zoos ,The Pennines ,Museums > etc > > the last two are worthwhile but zoos are cruel so any money generated is > > irrelevant .the Queen doesn't really workDoing visits is hardly > onerous.she > > kills wildlife and has too many housesand untill rcently did not even pay > > taxes to benefit the general public!The only people who like royalty seem > > to be the kind of people who hero worship the rich and famous. No one is > > better than me so I wont put these people on a pedestal or allow them to > > think that they matter.How much harm does the Queen et al do to the > > disadvantaged in this country who have nothing but see the rich flaunting > > their wealth.No wonder we have suicidesNo amount of money brought in by > > tourists can ever justify the greed of the royals/Pop stars /Top Actors > etc > > They are only People after all.Prostitutes bring money to soho Is that a > > good reason for keeping them?? > > I met a really important person the other day and I made an > > effort to see her No Not a rich celebrity who wouldn't care if I was > there > > or not It was a vegan who i had only known thro' emails.We should stop > hero > > worshipping the rich greedy celebrities and show the value of real vegan > > people [friends ]. I met Lesley and family.I have twice managed to avouid > > seeing the Queen As a child we were given the day off school to see her > > visiting the town. My friend and I went swimming Much better. Angie > > > > > > > > > > Original Message ----- > > " Laura " <laurahesse > > <vegan-network > > > Saturday, April 28, 2001 10:06 PM > > Re: murders just live in a different world > > > > > > > i find it soo hard to understand people like that when i try my hardest > > > not to harm anything. i feel guilty about using too much water when i > > > have baths, it is a bit of an addiction of mine cos i can spend hours > > > reading and keep filling the water up to keep warm. > > > when they dont give a second thought to any of their actions. > > > > > > my parents had a dinner party tonite and i was the only non meat eater > > > at the table. they were eating chicken legs and all i could think about > > > was the number of animals that died to feed them. it felt like sitting > > > round a table with canibals. > > > > > > the only suggestion i can make to sort out world leaders is to give them > > > some of their own medicine. they need some good old torture and a bit > > > of starvation. that might put them back on track. > > > > > > i dont have a reply to my mum when she says the monarchy bring a lot > > > of tourism (money) to britain therfore we cant get rid of them. she is > not > > > a big fan but can only see tourism. i on the other hand think they > should > > > be shot or at least be a bit poorer like the spanish monarchy who go > > > round on mopeds, which is pritty cool. can anybody give me a good > > > reason why the monarchy should be poor cos the country would loose a > > > lot of money and it is a 'british tradition'. there must be soo many > > > reasons to get rid of them but i cant think of any. > > > > > > laura > > > > > > > > > > > > vegan-network, EBbrewpunx@c... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Search this site > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this section > > > > > > > > <A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479754,00. > > > html " >Vanished Briton leaves family baffled</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479790,00. > > > html " >Daring escape of the Karmapa</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479896,00. > > > html " >Hidden > > > > powerhouse of the US presidency</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479795,00. > > > html " >Stone Age find will not halt dam</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479796,00. > > > html " >One small step > > > > for Singapore</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479798,00. > > > html " >Islanders fail to stop US bombs</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479806,00. > > > html " >Six Red Cross workers killed in > > > > Congo attack</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479793,00. > > > html " >11th-hour gremlins dog Tito's star trek</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479792,00. > > > html " >TV jester crashes the > > > > election party</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479812,00. > > > html " >In brief</A><A > > > HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,479791,00. > > > html " >Berlusconi to sue Economist for 'unfit' tag</A> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lions face new threat: they're rich, American and they've got > > > guns > > > > > > > > Schwarzkopf and Bush Snr mobilise opposition as Botswana moves > > > to save its > > > > big cats > > > > > > > > <A HREF= " http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/ " >Special report: George > > > Bush's America</A> > > > > > > > > Chris McGreal in Johannesburg > > > > Friday April 27, 2001 > > > > The Guardian > > > > > > > > You might call the lions of southern Africa potential Bush meat. The > > > former > > > > American president, George Bush senior, and his old Gulf War ally, > > > General > > > > " Stormin' Norman " Schwarzkopf, are pleading with the government of > > > Botswana > > > > to be allowed to revive their old alliance, this time in pursuit of > > > Africa's > > > > endangered big cats. Mr Bush is among prominent members of Safari > > > Club > > > > International (SCI) who have written to the Botswanan authorities > > > asking them > > > > to lift a ban slapped on trophy hunting of lions in February. Arizona- > > > based > > > > SCI describes itself as the largest hunting organisation in the world > > > and > > > > people who do not like what it does as " animal protection extremists " . > > > Mr > > > > Bush's former vice-president, Dan Quayle, is also among the > > > signatories along > > > > with Gen Schwarzkopf. Both men went hunting in Botswana last year, > > > although > > > > it is not known if they bagged lions on that occasion. Rich > > > Americans, > > > > Europeans and Japanese pay about ?0,000 a time to kill a lion in > > > Botswana. > > > > The government usually permits the shooting of about 50 lions a year > > > by > > > > trophy hunters but decided to impose the ban in part because > > > American > > > > shooters favour lions with thick manes for their walls, leading to a > > > > disproportionate killing of mature males. The shortage of such beasts > > > is now > > > > so great that hunters have been making use of a mane-extension > > > service back > > > > in the US where fake hair is weaved in to give their trophies an extra > > > > flourish before they hang the heads. Among those who campaigned > > > for a ban on > > > > lion hunting in Botswana is Derek Joubert, the country's leading > > > chronicler > > > > of big cats. " I've been studying lions in northern Botswana for 20 > > > years and > > > > watching them systematically decline in population size and health > > > primarily, > > > > perhaps even solely, as the result of hunting, " he said. " We've also > > > seen > > > > some bizarre situations arising. Hunters target the primary males. > > > When they > > > > disappear the male cubs don't leave the pride, they're not chased out. > > > So > > > > we've seen these young males breeding with their sisters and their > > > mothers > > > > because the trophy males have been killed. " Mr Joubert estimates > > > that the > > > > number of lions in Botswana has declined by about two-thirds in 10 > > > years. > > > > That is average for the continent. Exact numbers of lions are > > > notoriously > > > > difficult to measure but there is broad consensus among > > > conservationists and > > > > governments that the population in Africa has fallen from about > > > 50,000 to > > > > less than 15,000 over the past decade. The surviving lions are largely > > > > confined to four viable populations in southern and east Africa. > > > Peasant > > > > farmers also had a hand in the Botswana ban. The government had > > > already > > > > forbidden them to shoot lions that attack cattle. The farmers said it > > > was > > > > unfair to permit rich hunters to go on killing lions for sport when > > > peasants > > > > were prevented from protecting their precious livestock. " There's no > > > other > > > > reason to shoot a lion other than ego. As a hunter you want to feel > > > great so > > > > you can hang it on the wall and your mates say: 'Wow, what a man', " > > > Mr > > > > Joubert said. " I'm not particularly anti-hunting. I can't personally > see > > > the > > > > point in going out and shooting a lion. But I do have a problem with > > > the > > > > ethics of it and the sustainability of it. " The nature of lion hunting > > has > > > > changed from colonial days. Faster vehicles and high powered rifles > > > have > > > > further reduced the already bad odds against the animals. On top of > > > that, the > > > > idea of three week hunts deep into the bush in the hope, but not > > > necessarily > > > > the expectation, of bagging something big have given way to the > > > concept of a > > > > sure kill. " It's very difficult for a professional hunter to turn > around > > to > > > > some guy who's paid $30,000 to kill a lion and say: 'Don't shoot that > > > one > > > > he's too young, he's not ready'. The guy's going to say, I came here > > > to kill > > > > a lion and that's what I'm going to do, " said Mr Joubert. At least > there > > > is > > > > still something of the hunt left in Botswana. South Africa offers the > > > > notorious " canned lion " service in which a trapped animal is virtually > > > > delivered to the barrel of a gun. Many of the lions are bred in > > captivity > > > > solely as bait for hunters and then hardly pursued at all. They are > > > released > > > > into what are no more than fields surrounded by fences and " hunted " . > > > They > > > > have no chance of escape. On one occasion captured on video a > > > lioness was > > > > separated from her cubs and shot just yards away. Last year a pride > > > of > > > > problem lions - they had been eating livestock - in the state-owned > > > Kruger > > > > National Park was sold to a hunting tour operator for delivery to his > > > > clients. Tales of horrendous suffering by the animals abound. Some > > > supposed > > > > hunters are so inexpert with guns that they take a dozen shots to kill > > > a > > > > lion. Sometimes the killing takes place on the same game farms that > > > foreign > > > > tourists believe to be conservation centres. While the parks > > > emphasise the > > > > breeding of lions to the visitors waving cameras, over the hill the > > > hunters > > > > are shooting them with guns. The state-run South African tourist > > > board even > > > > advertised " canned lion " hunts. " Go for the ultimate trophy and score > > > in > > > > South Africa, " said one advert. " It is always in season in South > > > Africa, > > > > where the world's finest hunting is in the bag. " Opponents of the ban > > > in > > > > Botswana say it will have a big effect on the local economy. Lion > > > hunting is > > > > estimated to be worth about ?m a year but most of the profits go to > > > hunting > > > > operators. The government earns just ?,500 for each lion bagged, a > > > fraction > > > > of what the hunter pays, even though all hunting takes place on state- > > > owned > > > > reserves and the animals are the property of the government. Safari > > > Club > > > > International, which calls itself a " charitable organisation of hunter > > > > conservationists " with 33,000 members across the globe, is unlikely > > > to get > > > > its way. The tide appears to have swung against lion hunting in > > > Botswana and > > > > conservationists are confident that when the ban comes up for review > > > in a > > > > year it will be reimposed. While SCI mobilises politicians, other > > > prominent > > > > voices have spoken up in favour of the ban on lion hunting. Among > > > those who > > > > have written to Botswana's wildlife department in support is the actor > > > Kevin > > > > Costner, star of Dances with Wolves, about the devastating impact of > > > hunting > > > > on America's bison population. SCI referred questions about lions in > > > Botswana > > > > and the prominent support for a lifting of the hunting ban to its > chief > > > > executive, Rudy Rosen, who was not available. But Gen > > > Schwarzkopf is clearly > > > > a valued member. The organisation recently donated $10,000 in the > > > general's > > > > name to a Grizzly bear information project. Under threat from the gun > > > > Rhinos > > > > There were once hundreds of species but only five exist today and > > > four of > > > > them are endangered. During the 1970s as many as half the world's > > > remaining > > > > rhinos disappeared. Now fewer than 12,000 survive in Asia and > > > Africa. The > > > > northern white rhino is reduced to only 30 individuals in the wild. In > > > Africa > > > > poaching has been so ruthless that black rhino numbers have fallen > > > from > > > > 60,000 to 2,500 in 22 years. Horn from African rhinos is worth?,300 to > > > > ?,300 per kg, and horn from Asian rhinos up to ?2,000 per kg. > > > Elephants > > > > The demand for ivory was behind the decline of the African elephant, > > > which > > > > fell from 2m animals in 1970 to between 286,000 and 543,000 today. > > > The number > > > > of Asian elephants have been reduced to between 34,000 and 51,000 > > > animals in > > > > the wild. Hunting for meat, hides and bones has affected both breeds. > > > Orang > > > > Utans > > > > Fewer than 30,000 exist in the world today, a 30% to 50% decline > > > which has > > > > occurred in the past decade. The vast majority can be found in > > > Borneo, where > > > > they are protected. Hunting for food and body parts has taken its toll > > > and > > > > the trade in body parts, particularly skulls, continues despite the > > > efforts > > > > of the authorities to eradicate it. Tigers > > > > A population estimate in 1996 was between 4,600 and 7,200 in the > > > wild, and > > > > there are now no more than 4,500 Indian tigers. The Siberian tiger is > > > the > > > > world's largest cat but only 200 remain, mostly in Russia. The > > > demand for > > > > tiger products has increased with the bones and other body parts > > > being used > > > > for traditional Chinese medicines and as tonics or cures for ailments. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 Maybe if the Queen was vegan and she imposed it (veganism) as a law of the land????!!!! ;-) Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 Hello, One advantage of revoting labour is the 'Fur Farming (Prohibition) act 2000 may eventually get a date set, some people believe that as the act is passed they will close. However the act means that all mink farms have to close in 2 years, but it has not been decided when from, so is ineffective at the moment. if everyone will write to the following adress asking for this then it may happen before the election. Nick Brown MP (Minister for agriculture) House of Commons Westmonster LOndon SW14 0AA There are currently only ten mink farms, but these last ones are stubburn b*st*rds. The group I campaign for closed the one in ponteland northumberland this spring after a three and a half year campaign. My school is participating in the WWF internet debate on the atlantic cod supplies, does anyone have any information. The stuff I've found is so obvious I wanted to add something more interesting and worth discussion. Jane, living in the countryside is very idyllic and peaceful, but full of farmers and hunts and anglers which can ruin the harmony. Please write the letter, take care everyone Anne > " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming >vegan-network ><vegan-network > >Re: Re: murders just live in a different world >Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:03:18 +0100 > >My dad used to say that " you're as good as and no better than anyone else " . >I always remember this phrase in life when people try to brow beat me, or >put me down. > >This is also true of the many celebrities that the UK press seem to be >making so very powerful and ultra-famous. My biggest annoyance is with >Posh >and Becks. Okay, so in all fairness he is an excellent footballer but at >the end of the day that's all he does. Kicks a ball around some grass. >Sorry to unglamorise it, but that's basically what it is!!! As for Posh, >well, can she sing? This question has always been up for debate and she is >always the butt of jokes and YET she is stinking rich, in every newspaper >and magazine and often on the TV. She is famous for being famous. Between >the two of them you see them ridiculously spending money and I once saw >Posh >on TV in an expensive jewellers in London and she held an item up to the >camera and said " Look David, it's got a price label on it " . She said >afterwards that he buys things even when they have no label on them, >because >money is no object. I expect nearly her entire audience couldn't agree >with >that when they go shopping! She was just showing off. I use them merely >as >an example of the new " heros " who have lavish holidays and homes and >lifestyles. But at the end of the day WE give them the money to do it! >But >like my dad would have said, they're no better than you and me. > >If I won the lottery I would be very much like Spacevegan. I don't drive >so >I wouldn't have a line of cars on my driveway, but I would buy a home in >the >country where I would find the quietness and fresh air so idyllic. I found >a village like this last week when my husband and I visited it for the day, >but he said that it was too quiet. I felt quite sad and I detest living in >the town. I've always hoped that one day I would live in a country >village. >I would love to have a nice plot of land and keep a few animals. Just me >out and about with my wellies on enjoying the simple qualities of life. > >Jane > > > > > >> > > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2001 Report Share Posted April 29, 2001 cheers Anne....will get writing this week! thanks, mark x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.