Guest guest Posted May 2, 2001 Report Share Posted May 2, 2001 John, I was fortunate enough to do a thoeolgy degree a few years back - specialising in Tibetan Buddhism, Hinduism & environmental Christian theogy. Following may or may not be of interest. > pretty much the same is true Indians The word Indian (and also the word Hindu) simply means 'from south of the river Indus.' It is mostly south India I believe that is vegan - but it is hugely diverse. There is one saying (from their 'Vedic' texts I think,) that once people leave India they are no longer Hindu - so suggesting all Hindus are the same or suggesting there is such a thing as a true Indian would be like saying that all Europeans are the same: but there are some common threads. Gandhi was once asked what he thought of Western civilisation. He said yes - that would be a good idea. I agree with him. > i wonder if it is rather a Protestant thing all wrapped up in self denial? how many people from Catholic upbringing?> one can be right without being righteous. Jesus said 'do not judge others.' I've never met another vegan Christian. Or a Christian that respects 'God's creation' - or a Christian that doesn't judge people - but who are we to judge them either? I'm sure there are some out there that think and care. The Church does invest in GM crops though ~ a lot of Christians are so into the idea that there will be a new heaven and a new earth that they don't care about the one that God has given them. I think Jesus did care. He was sound: a shaman and healer , - but he didn't like fig trees & he ate fish. I think he had it quite sorted though: they didn't have factory farming then, so it was more in harmony.. The Vatican has its own abbatoir. Jesus didn't even have a home - 'foxes have holes, birds have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lie down & rest' - and he destroyed the temple because they were selling animals there - I think the current church is a bit lost. > it is not that you do not see the point but that you chose to ignore it, > avoid it, think yourself above it ... and instead chose to find a far > lesser one amongst what i write. > people can only respond to the bits they know about. Like I'm doing in this reply to you. Everyone misses the point sometimes - whatever colour or culture or religion.. Did I just do so too? This society enslaves everyone in some way - black people still get the worst of it at the moment. Yeah - change comes through love & unity not hate. Hannah. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2001 Report Share Posted May 2, 2001 Regarding the lack of Christian vegans: My boyfriend (vegan with dreads) was brought up with strict church of England parents who wanted him to get a `proper job' with lots of money and wearing suits cos he is their only child. I don't know how he ended up the total opposite from them and they are soo disappointed. They accept him but do not treat him brilliantly. When he told them that Jesus was an anarchist they went mental. did anyone see that program about jesus' life? It was presented by a non believer news bloke, im an atheist and thought it was realy good cos I always thought he didn't exist, but he was a realy cool bloke. As I was saying: I have always seen religion in the west used as an excuse to have no morals. My boyfriend used to go to church and do talks to them all about not banking with natwest, using fair trade and generally not being hippocritical. A few people came up to him and congratulated him and asked him where he got his info. He said look around, its everywhere. He has given up on them now and doesn't go anymore. I used to think religion was a realy bad thing but it seems only in the west. Most other religions I have seen seem to have a lifestyle following their beliefs, i think. In the anarchy papers you can get, I saw a bit about a priest who chained himself to a digger on a protest and is now in jail for it. And the other day I met an anarchist training to become a priest and he seemed prity cool. there are a few with moral out there. A bit ago I was trying not to be prejudice against western religious people cos I noticed It bothered me when someone mentioned they were religious (caused difficulties when my boyfriend started talking like a bible basher) so when some Jahovas whitneses came to the door I thought I would listen to what they had to say. They basically had all the ideas of anarchy like running your own life and living in small self sufficient communities. But were saying that god was going to solve everything for them. Basically it wasn't their problem, and god will make the bad people pay. No mention of the fact that most people are the problem. All the pictures in the booklet were of smart business people in shirts. These people thought that god was just testing us to see how we would get on on our own and as it turns out we don't do very well so he is going to come along and fix all the mess humans have caused. chears hannah for the stuff on communities cos im realy interested in getting into something like that. laura vegan-network, " Hannah Biddle " <hannah@c...> wrote: > John, > > I was fortunate enough to do a thoeolgy degree a few years back - > specialising in Tibetan Buddhism, Hinduism & environmental Christian theogy. > Following may or may not be of interest. > > > pretty much the same is true Indians > > The word Indian (and also the word Hindu) simply means 'from south of the > river Indus.' It is mostly south India I believe that is vegan - but it is > hugely diverse. There is one saying (from their 'Vedic' texts I think,) that > once people leave India they are no longer Hindu - so suggesting all Hindus > are the same or suggesting there is such a thing as a true Indian would be > like saying that all Europeans are the same: but there are some common > threads. Gandhi was once asked what he thought of Western civilisation. He > said yes - that would be a good idea. I agree with him. > > > i wonder if it is rather a Protestant thing all wrapped up in self > denial? how many people from Catholic upbringing?> one can be right without > being righteous. > > Jesus said 'do not judge others.' > I've never met another vegan Christian. Or a Christian that respects 'God's > creation' - or a Christian that doesn't judge people - but who are we to > judge them either? I'm sure there are some out there that think and care. > The Church does invest in GM crops though ~ a lot of Christians are so into > the idea that there will be a new heaven and a new earth that they don't > care about the one that God has given them. > I think Jesus did care. He was sound: a shaman and healer , - but he didn't > like fig trees & he ate fish. I think he had it quite sorted though: they > didn't have factory farming then, so it was more in harmony.. The Vatican > has its own abbatoir. Jesus didn't even have a home - 'foxes have holes, > birds have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lie down & rest' - and > he destroyed the temple because they were selling animals there - I think > the current church is a bit lost. > > > it is not that you do not see the point but that you chose to ignore it, > > avoid it, think yourself above it ... and instead chose to find a far > > lesser one amongst what i write. > > > > people can only respond to the bits they know about. > Like I'm doing in this reply to you. Everyone misses the point sometimes - > whatever colour or culture or religion.. Did I just do so too? > This society enslaves everyone in some way - black people still get the > worst of it at the moment. Yeah - change comes through love & unity not > hate. > > Hannah. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2001 Report Share Posted May 3, 2001 I'm a Christian vegan. The veganism came first (about five years before the Christianity). I see veganism as a practical way to demonstrate my love and respect for all living things, and that is something that is a part of Christianity. That doesn't mean that non-vegans don't have as much love; maybe they're just expressing it in different ways. One of the most important things about Christianity is that it recognises the individual, and free will - every person who comes to God does so because he or she has chosen to, because he or she is an individual different to every other. Diversity is beautiful (I personally think an entirely vegan world would be more beautiful, and that a vegan Christian world would be more beautiful still, but that is my opinion). Hilary (ps, I haven't introduced myself: I'm 22, a final year student at Cambridge University, studying French and Russian. I've been vegan since I was fifteen, and was vegetarian for a few years before that. Must get back to revision...) Jesus said 'do not judge others.'<BR> I've never met another vegan Christian. Or a Christian that respects 'God's<BR> creation' - or a Christian that doesn't judge people - but who are we to<BR> judge them either? I'm sure there are some out there that think and care.<BR> The Church does invest in GM crops though ~ a lot of Christians are so into<BR> the idea that there will be a new heaven and a new earth that they don't<BR> care about the one that God has given them.<BR> I think Jesus did care. He was sound: a shaman and healer , - but he didn't<BR> like fig trees & amp; he ate fish. I think he had it quite sorted though: they<BR> didn't have factory farming then, so it was more in harmony.. The Vatican<BR> has its own abbatoir. Jesus didn't even have a home - 'foxes have holes,<BR> birds have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lie down & amp; rest' - and<BR> he destroyed the temple because they were selling animals there - I think<BR> the current church is a bit lost.<BR> <BR> __________ Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2001 Report Share Posted May 3, 2001 Yeah - I know there are some good christians out there - but so many do seem to leave it up to God and not be pro-active or creative themselves, or just use 'forgiveness' as an excuse to do harm, because they can say sorry and they'll be ok. Buddhism caused a lot of war in the 8th Century, & Islam has caused a lot of opppression (or rather - oppression has been caused in its name,) - so its not all christianity''s fault - & it all contains some wisdom I think, but like everything, is open to abuse as soon asd it crosses that line to become an organised, state religion. Good luck on the co-ops.. Hannah. - " Laura " <laurahesse <vegan-network > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 11:06 PM Re: Hindu and Christian vegans > Regarding the lack of Christian vegans: > My boyfriend (vegan with dreads) was brought up with strict church of > England parents who wanted him to get a `proper job' with lots of > money and wearing suits cos he is their only child. I don't know how > he ended up the total opposite from them and they are soo > disappointed. They accept him but do not treat him brilliantly. When > he told them that Jesus was an anarchist they went mental. > > did anyone see that program about jesus' life? It was presented by a > non believer news bloke, im an atheist and thought it was realy good > cos I always thought he didn't exist, but he was a realy cool bloke. > > As I was saying: I have always seen religion in the west used as an > excuse to have no morals. My boyfriend used to go to church and do > talks to them all about not banking with natwest, using fair trade > and generally not being hippocritical. A few people came up to him > and congratulated him and asked him where he got his info. He said > look around, its everywhere. He has given up on them now and doesn't > go anymore. > > I used to think religion was a realy bad thing but it seems only in > the west. Most other religions I have seen seem to have a lifestyle > following their beliefs, i think. In the anarchy papers you can get, > I saw a bit about a priest who chained himself to a digger on a > protest and is now in jail for it. And the other day I met an > anarchist training to become a priest and he seemed prity cool. there > are a few with moral out there. > > A bit ago I was trying not to be prejudice against western religious > people cos I noticed It bothered me when someone mentioned they were > religious (caused difficulties when my boyfriend started talking like > a bible basher) so when some Jahovas whitneses came to the door I > thought I would listen to what they had to say. They basically had > all the ideas of anarchy like running your own life and living in > small self sufficient communities. But were saying that god was going > to solve everything for them. Basically it wasn't their problem, and > god will make the bad people pay. No mention of the fact that most > people are the problem. All the pictures in the booklet were of smart > business people in shirts. These people thought that god was just > testing us to see how we would get on on our own and as it turns out > we don't do very well so he is going to come along and fix all the > mess humans have caused. > > chears hannah for the stuff on communities cos im realy interested in > getting into something like that. > > laura > > > > vegan-network, " Hannah Biddle " <hannah@c...> wrote: > > John, > > > > I was fortunate enough to do a thoeolgy degree a few years back - > > specialising in Tibetan Buddhism, Hinduism & environmental > Christian theogy. > > Following may or may not be of interest. > > > > > pretty much the same is true Indians > > > > The word Indian (and also the word Hindu) simply means 'from south > of the > > river Indus.' It is mostly south India I believe that is vegan - > but it is > > hugely diverse. There is one saying (from their 'Vedic' texts I > think,) that > > once people leave India they are no longer Hindu - so suggesting > all Hindus > > are the same or suggesting there is such a thing as a true Indian > would be > > like saying that all Europeans are the same: but there are some > common > > threads. Gandhi was once asked what he thought of Western > civilisation. He > > said yes - that would be a good idea. I agree with him. > > > > > i wonder if it is rather a Protestant thing all wrapped up in > self > > denial? how many people from Catholic upbringing?> one can be right > without > > being righteous. > > > > Jesus said 'do not judge others.' > > I've never met another vegan Christian. Or a Christian that > respects 'God's > > creation' - or a Christian that doesn't judge people - but who are > we to > > judge them either? I'm sure there are some out there that think and > care. > > The Church does invest in GM crops though ~ a lot of Christians are > so into > > the idea that there will be a new heaven and a new earth that they > don't > > care about the one that God has given them. > > I think Jesus did care. He was sound: a shaman and healer , - but > he didn't > > like fig trees & he ate fish. I think he had it quite sorted > though: they > > didn't have factory farming then, so it was more in harmony.. The > Vatican > > has its own abbatoir. Jesus didn't even have a home - 'foxes have > holes, > > birds have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lie down & > rest' - and > > he destroyed the temple because they were selling animals there - I > think > > the current church is a bit lost. > > > > > it is not that you do not see the point but that you chose to > ignore it, > > > avoid it, think yourself above it ... and instead chose to find a > far > > > lesser one amongst what i write. > > > > > > > people can only respond to the bits they know about. > > Like I'm doing in this reply to you. Everyone misses the point > sometimes - > > whatever colour or culture or religion.. Did I just do so too? > > This society enslaves everyone in some way - black people still get > the > > worst of it at the moment. Yeah - change comes through love & unity > not > > hate. > > > > Hannah. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2001 Report Share Posted May 3, 2001 It would be the opinion of quite a few million animals too no doubt if they had the capacity to understand .Still as long as non vegan christians are expressing their love in other ways thats o.k then, that millions are getting their throat cut. For me thats not good enough and on behalf of those who can't talk ,I have the utmost contempt for religious people who waffle on about loving god's wonderful creation , then KILL it and gorge themselves on it I hope it chokes them.I'd sooner have an atheist who honestly couldn't care less about animals .Its the absolute hypocrisy in the church regarding animals that I detest so much Angie --- Original Message ----- " Hilary Thornton " <hilary_thornton <vegan-network > Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:16 PM Re: Hindu and Christian vegans > I'm a Christian vegan. The veganism came first (about > five years before the Christianity). I see veganism > as a practical way to demonstrate my love and respect > for all living things, and that is something that is a > part of Christianity. That doesn't mean that > non-vegans don't have as much love; maybe they're just > expressing it in different ways. One of the most > important things about Christianity is that it > recognises the individual, and free will - every > person who comes to God does so because he or she has > chosen to, because he or she is an individual > different to every other. Diversity is beautiful (I > personally think an entirely vegan world would be more > beautiful, and that a vegan Christian world would be > more beautiful still, but that is my opinion). > > Hilary > > > > > ..> vegan-network- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2001 Report Share Posted May 4, 2001 I'm not a Christian, not since I realised in my teens that I didn't really believe any more in god or an afterlife, but if I was still an Anglican, I would strongly promote the works of the Reverend Professor Andrew Linzey among the people at my church. He is one of the best people within the Anglican Church to influence people to see compassion for animals as part of their religion, and this quite possibly also relates to some other Christian denominations. Lesley > It would be the opinion of quite a few million animals too no doubt if they > had the capacity to understand .Still as long as non vegan christians are > expressing their love in other ways thats o.k then, that millions are > getting their throat cut. For me thats not good enough and on behalf of > those who can't talk ,I have the utmost contempt for religious people who > waffle on about loving god's wonderful creation , then KILL it > and gorge themselves on it I hope it chokes them.I'd sooner have an atheist > who honestly couldn't care less about animals .Its the absolute hypocrisy in > the church > regarding animals that I detest so much Angie > > > > --- Original Message ----- > " Hilary Thornton " <hilary_thornton> > <vegan-network> > Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:16 PM > Re: Hindu and Christian vegans > > > > I'm a Christian vegan. The veganism came first (about > > five years before the Christianity). I see veganism > > as a practical way to demonstrate my love and respect > > for all living things, and that is something that is a > > part of Christianity. That doesn't mean that > > non-vegans don't have as much love; maybe they're just > > expressing it in different ways. One of the most > > important things about Christianity is that it > > recognises the individual, and free will - every > > person who comes to God does so because he or she has > > chosen to, because he or she is an individual > > different to every other. Diversity is beautiful (I > > personally think an entirely vegan world would be more > > beautiful, and that a vegan Christian world would be > > more beautiful still, but that is my opinion). > > > > Hilary > > > > > > > > > > .> vegan-network- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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