should we all be censored?

[Guest guest]

John, no I was not angry because any one was condemning me for smoking

whilst I am pregnant at all, I was defending my right as an individual to

express my beliefs...I have looked at Lesley's situation and can understand

why she is against smoking in general and I was pointing out that fact, she

cannot understand why people smoke and just regards " us " as filthy, she has

also said that I and others are unfit parents and should have our children

and rights taken away, now surely you cannot tell me that that is not

insulting and lacks compassion etc this is just as bad as calling someone a

spastic.

 

You know little about our home life in fact we do not smoke in front of our

child and I have significantly cut down on smoking since finding out that I

was pregnant and with my first child I did not smoke or drink whatsoever.

We all have a bad habit of some kind whether it is junk food, (as Lesley has

stated hers is) smoking, or driving ones car to the shops.

Everything we do effects our children in some way or another, and all the

above are poisonous to our bodies.

 

Why do I have to justify myself to you anyway?..is this because you feel

power over us now you are presumably the new moderator?.

 

MrBig was booted out because of lack of understanding, most of what was said

by him was tongue and cheek as Angie has pointed out and as for all the talk

of drugs we were not the only contributors...surely you should have written

an email to one and all expressing your concerns if it was really bothering

you so much instead of expelling someone who had contributed so much to this

network.

 

No this may not have been his list nor is it mine, Lesley's, Angie`s or

anyone else who speaks here but without us it is nothing and to throw

someone out because they expressed their thoughts and beliefs and have not

conformed, well, you may as well throw everyone out.

 

We all say what we think here, it is called freedom of speech, censoring

only leads to ignorance we are all equal and should be treated as such.

I have no grudges with anyone here no not even Lesley, I believe we both

have a lot to learn from each other and actually enjoy hearing what she has

to say.

 

AS for Vegan issues, we are all Vegan here so any issue we discuss will be

of a Vegan nature, whether it be drugs or flowers...it is about " lifestyle "

so everything applies.

 

No matter how hard you wish to put certain matters behind you John things

don`t just fade away, these issues need to be discussed so we can learn from

one another to hide something does not solve the problem.

 

 

In future if you have something to discuss or say to my husband please mail

him, most of what you have said in your email to me was directed at him and

I cannot speak for him.

That is why we never publicly announced that we were an item.

 

mertle.

 

ps: I shall be sending this mail to everyone as I would like them to hear

what I have to say...I will not attach your mail as it may offend you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

[Guest guest]

Mertle,

 

you and your husband seem to prefer to wash your dirty laundry in public

by bringing things on to the list that are " Off Topic " and belong " Off

List " . I dont understand why you would want to broadcast this to 130

other people, except to try and discredit me, but if you insist. Sorry I

was too busy sortin my flat out to welcome the American Activist to give

it any attention before now.

 

> You know little about our home life in fact we do not smoke in front of

> our child and I have significantly cut down on smoking since finding out

> that I was pregnant and with my first child I did not smoke or drink

> whatsoever.

 

You cannot *not* smoke in front of a foetus. How may a day now? Instead

of being concerned about manipulating concepts of right and wrong you and

Mr Sarah Bastine-BiG should concern yourselves with the immediate

priority in your lives. Presumably you joined him in using drugs, does

that include the time up until your discovered you were pregnant? I am

sure that you would not find one person on this list that would condone

that.

 

The time to have given up smoking and stop taking drugs was at least six

months before your child was conceived. Time to give your body a chance

to recoup itself from abuse. It is a shame that you dont afford the love

and respect you gave your first child and that you dont have his support

in this.

 

As said in my email to you, as follows, Mr BiG was booted because he

constantly and willfully breached the netiquette necessary to keep a list

happy, healthy and doing what it was intended to do. My mail was not

about your family life at all.

 

As for " Freedom of Speech " , the virtue and gift of freedom of speech

was never intended to defend that which is damaging to self and others

nor that denies other's their right to the necessities and simple

pleasures of life. In fact, it was largely intended to defend the general

public from the non-democratic abuses of the very same establishment that

people support today buying into cigarette smoking; the establishmentary

power directly built up from the unethical trading of tobacco and slaves.

 

They still trades today now in much the same manner. Using and targetting

the developing nations as the developed world closes it doors to their

filthy trade, British American Tobacco et al, albeit not as directly

violent and rutheless as the trade in illicit drug trade. Funny how the

loop is closed. Slaves at one end and slaves at the other, all

contributing to the financial power of dirty money that invests where

ever its " freedom " wishes it.

 

Is smoking a filthy habit? I am sorry but, objectively, without any

doubt.

 

Can you tell me that you two have never thrown a cigarette end down in

the street or countryside? How do you lungs look? Do you not remember

when you were pregnant last what the air downwind from some cigarette

slaves smells like? [ And that sentence is only to cheapen and disrespect

the suffering of the African American slaves by analogy because at least

they had no choice in the matter, you two do ].

 

It tears me apart when I go out into what could still be a beautiful

world and where ever I go from sunny beaches to mountain tops I find

sodden little tabs, fag packets, matches everywhere. At festival where

the second smoke wrecks non-smokers experience. Why dont these people

realise what they are trailing behind them or think of others? It is like

vermin that pees and poops where ever it goes without a care.

 

If you want my support to stop, I will give it to. Every day on this list

I will ask you how many you smoked today.

 

Now imagine someone as small as your hand, how many have they smoked

today?

 

First things first. Some of the other things said on this list are to my

mind just about as mad but in no way as unnecessarly damaging.

 

 

John

 

 

for those of you who have nothing better to do with your time, this is

the email that I sent to Mertle. I am sorry to bring it onto the list and

have to play the role of Daddy spoiling the kids fun as it does not

really represent who I am either.

 

If you think that it is out of order, please reply to me direct " OFF

LIST " as I believe it is " OFF TOPIC " .

 

This netiquette of On and Off Topic is not " my " or anyone else's rule.

it is just an efficient protocol that has arisen out of the use of the

internet by many people before we came to it and one that has been

discovered to work best.

 

 

 

<quote>

 

 

 

Subject:

16/5/01 10:17 pm

mertleblu

 

Mertle,

 

can I just clarify a couple of things?

 

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't you the woman that was getting angry

because you were pregnant and still smoking and someone was criticising

that? And now you say that Sarah PinkPlop-Big is your partner, the guy

that that defends and continues his drug use? Nice responsible family

unit.

 

As far as I understand, he was booted was because he willfully chose to

breach the standard list etiquette, or " netiquettes " necessary to

sustain a healthy email discusion list too many times. From re-posting

personal mails on list deliberately to damage someone else, to direct

insult and profanity, to the use of the word spastic in a derrogatory

sense which most would see as unreasonable.

 

It is understandible that many people come on to a list for the first

time with little idea of what netiquette is but there is no excuse not to

pick this up quickly. The standards are universally accepted. It is not

his list, he has no right to damage the atmosphere of someone else's list

for the sake of his own self-interest or sport.

 

This purpose of this list is discuss matters relating to the vegan diet.

It is intended to be used to bring together and support young vegans

positively. It is " On Topic " to discuss these matters, it is " Off

Topic " to discuss other subjects such as drug abuse. There are adequate

sites, lists and support groups for that elsewhere.

 

By all means discuss such issues " Off List " with members if they wish

to but please leave " On List " discussion to vegan issues. " Noise "

such as we have experienced too easy leads to " Flame Wars " we wish to

avoid. There are more important thing in life to deal with.

 

Vegan Network is the largest vegan list on outside of the vegan

parents list. It may be that you would be more suited to using that list

for support. As such is a shop window to many for the vegan lifestyle. It

is hoped that it encourages newcomers to come forward, meet, socialise

and relate to other vegans in a positive, supportative, enjoyable manner.

A place that they do not need to feel intimidated, insulted or

distracted. What sort of atmosphere has bee create in the past few weeks?

 

A " liberty " cannot be called a liberty where it impinges on other's

necessity, it is otherwise a needless, selfish and inconsiderate

indulgence, nothing else. In regards to smoking of any kind, especially

in families in the presence of children, I have to agree with the above

statement.

 

Now if this whole period can be put behind us, I hope that the list can

return to be that which it was first intended.

 

John

 

<unquote>