Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 I know a vegan couple with a son who live somewhere in the areas you are discussing, Wattsville, Gwent. They aren't online but are definitely happy to be contacted by other vegans in their area, so if anyone is thinking of organising anything round there, let me know and I'll give you their names and address. Lesley > > > Here's something from the latest Vegan magazine - its a health food > > shop based in Newport: > > Wow! :-) Was there an article about it? If so, could you send it to me > as I go there all the time. The women who work there are really nice > and we always have a good natter. I'd recommend it for anyone in the > area! > > Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 hi all in wales, i might be moving to lampeter in october to go to the uni, its good to hear that there are so many health shops in wales. i dont know about lampeter though, anyone else know???? i just hope the people living there arnt like that idiot who egged john prescott. about the smoking thing, i tend to think its up to the individual whether they smoke and its not anyone elses business unless they irritate others diliberately by it. i dont smoke, though i have tried it and didnt like it. what annoys me is when people pass judgements when they know nothing about it or havnt tried it. i think everyone should have a very good education on smoking, alcohol etc at school, (i didnt) the good and bad points and then left to cast their own judgement and smoke whether they want to and not be criticised for it unless it irritates others. love lola __________ Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 > I know a vegan couple with a son who live somewhere in the areas you > are discussing, Wattsville, Gwent. I think I've met them, although I don't know them very well!! Isn't one of them called Michael? Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 > > I know a vegan couple with a son who live somewhere in the areas you > > are discussing, Wattsville, Gwent. > > I think I've met them, although I don't know them very well!! Isn't > one of them called Michael? > Michael is the son, so I expect it is the same people. His dad Chris is on Vegan Society council. Lesley > > Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 > hi all in wales, > i might be moving to lampeter in october to go to the > uni, its good to hear that there are so many health > shops in wales. i dont know about lampeter though, > anyone else know???? i just hope the people living > there arnt like that idiot who egged john prescott. > > about the smoking thing, i tend to think its up to the > individual whether they smoke and its not anyone elses > business unless they irritate others diliberately by > it. i dont smoke, though i have tried it and didnt > like it. what annoys me is when people pass > judgements when they know nothing about it or havnt > tried it. i think everyone should have a very good > education on smoking, alcohol etc at school, (i didnt) > the good and bad points and then left to cast their > own judgement and smoke whether they want to and not > be criticised for it unless it irritates others. > love lola > The problem I have with the people on here who smoke is that they are parents of a toddler, and the mother is pregnant, and it's downright cruel, irresponsible and selfish to smoke especially if you have kids, it ALWAYS hurts the kids, and that is a fact, and something that occurs without exception. The children of smokers are more likely to take up smoking than the children of non-smokers, so it's important for parents to set a good example. I was hurt by my mother's smoking habit, and still have chest problems because of it, so I reserve the right to judge smokers, as a victim of second-hand smoke which I pleaded with my mother to stop inflicting on me for years, to no avail. It's such a major cause of death and ill health, it cannot be simply down to personal choice when it affects others including children and companion animals. I'm glad to hear you didn't like it, no wonder, it is foul anyway, I can't imagine why anyone likes it. I am very allergic to it, I think I am probably an undiagnosed asthmatic because I literally can't breathe around it, and now I'm pregnant I feel like throwing up if I get a whiff of anyone's smoke. Hubby (a former smoker) says I should throw up over one of them, teach them a lesson! I'm tempted to actually. I don't have to try something to know it is bad and unhealthy! Should I kill someone and then say I've done it and it's a bad thing? That argument is so preposterous in relation to illegal drugs too. I've read enough to know they are harmful, even cannabis. Lesley > > __________ > > Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk > or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 --- Lesley Dove <100706.3632 wrote: > > > hi all in wales, > > i might be moving to lampeter in october to go to > the > > uni, its good to hear that there are so many > health > > shops in wales. i dont know about lampeter > though, > > anyone else know???? i just hope the people living > > there arnt like that idiot who egged john > prescott. > > > > about the smoking thing, i tend to think its up to > the > > individual whether they smoke and its not anyone > elses > > business unless they irritate others diliberately > by > > it. i dont smoke, though i have tried it and > didnt > > like it. what annoys me is when people pass > > judgements when they know nothing about it or > havnt > > tried it. i think everyone should have a very > good > > education on smoking, alcohol etc at school, (i > didnt) > > the good and bad points and then left to cast > their > > own judgement and smoke whether they want to and > not > > be criticised for it unless it irritates others. > > love lola > > > The problem I have with the people on here who smoke > is that they are > parents of a toddler, and the mother is pregnant, > and it's downright > cruel, irresponsible and selfish to smoke especially > if you have > kids, it ALWAYS hurts the kids, and that is a fact, > and something > that occurs without exception. The children of > smokers are more > likely to take up smoking than the children of > non-smokers, so it's > important for parents to set a good example. I was > hurt by my > mother's smoking habit, and still have chest > problems because of it, > so I reserve the right to judge smokers, as a victim > of second-hand > smoke which I pleaded with my mother to stop > inflicting on me for > years, to no avail. It's such a major cause of death > and ill health, > it cannot be simply down to personal choice when it > affects others > including children and companion animals. > I'm glad to hear you didn't like it, no wonder, it > is foul anyway, I > can't imagine why anyone likes it. > I am very allergic to it, I think I am probably an > undiagnosed > asthmatic because I literally can't breathe around > it, and now I'm > pregnant I feel like throwing up if I get a whiff of > anyone's smoke. > Hubby (a former smoker) says I should throw up over > one of them, > teach them a lesson! I'm tempted to actually. > I don't have to try something to know it is bad and > unhealthy! Should > I kill someone and then say I've done it and it's a > bad thing? That > argument is so preposterous in relation to illegal > drugs too. I've > read enough to know they are harmful, even cannabis. > > Lesley > > > Lesley, firstly get diagnosed, after all if you are worried about asthma and are not a complete hypochondriac<which I am in 2 minds about> then the doc will listen to you and you will be given the required medication. Secondly, its my right to smoke if I want to as it is only me being hurt by it<I don`t smoke indoors anywhere> and thirdly, its pretty sad if you believe all you read with regards to cannabis! if we believed all we read, then animal experiments would be perfectly humane, all veggies/vegans are gaunt and listless, and Elvis would be living on the moon!!!!!!! have some common sense Lesley! > > > __________ > > > > Get your free @.co.uk address at > http://mail..co.uk > > or your free @.ie address at > http://mail..ie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 I certainly hope my life vegan sons don't listen to that idea of having to try something before deciding its wrong.It would be unlucky for the animals!!!! I'm also glad all men don't try out being rapists before deciding they don't approve Angie r - " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 <vegan-network > Monday, May 21, 2001 9:46 PM Re: South Wales vegans what annoys me is when people pass > > judgements when they know nothing about it or havnt > > tried it. > > love lola > > > I don't have to try something to know it is bad and unhealthy! Should > I kill someone and then say I've done it and it's a bad thing? That > argument is so preposterous in relation to illegal drugs too> > Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 I can't understand why people keep denying the dangers .surely putting smoke into a filtering apparatus[lungs],is going to put them under strain and cause harm. I'm overweight .I' don't mind being told I will shorten my life etc because its true .there's no point in my saying its my business etc or the scientists may be wrong -they can be- but it's clear from the number of early deaths from obesity and smoking,that its not a healthy option. Lesley is only trying to advise.I can't understand why people get so defensive - " sara oliver " <sarathe <vegan-network > Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:03 AM Re: Re: South Wales vegans > > > > > love lola > > > > > .. Secondly, its my right to smoke > if I want to as it is only me being hurt by it<I don`t > smoke indoors anywhere> and thirdly, its pretty sad if > you believe all you read with regards to cannabis! if > we believed all we read, then animal experiments would > be perfectly humane, all veggies/vegans are gaunt and > listless, and Elvis would be living on the moon!!!!!!! > have some common sense Lesley! > > > > > > __________ > > > > > > Get your free @.co.uk address at > > http://mail..co.uk > > > or your free @.ie address at > > http://mail..ie > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 > > > Lesley, firstly get diagnosed, after all if you > are worried about asthma and are not a complete > hypochondriac<which I am in 2 minds about> then the > doc will listen to you and you will be given the > required medication. Secondly, its my right to smoke > if I want to as it is only me being hurt by it<I don`t > smoke indoors anywhere> and thirdly, its pretty sad if > you believe all you read with regards to cannabis! if > we believed all we read, then animal experiments would > be perfectly humane, all veggies/vegans are gaunt and > listless, and Elvis would be living on the moon!!!!!!! > have some common sense Lesley! > > > Actually even if I am slightly asthmatic, I want to avoid medication from the doc because of animal ingredients in most tablets, and animal testing and possible side-effects. I much prefer the idea of the herbal teas, such as coltsfoot, as suggested by Hannah. I don't think it is so severe as to need pharmaceutical drugs. Hannah, I would like to be in touch with that herbalist in Watford, I do not think herb teas always taste too nice, a bit bitter usually, but that's OK I can cope with that! If your herbalist friend can help, I would go and get help that way rather than get ventolin. I don't want to just buy some herbs without a consultation with a herbalist in case they aren't safe in pregnancy. It's really funny you lecturing me on common sense, since you really don't seem to believe that second-hand smoke does harm despite the evidence. Do people with common sense ignore such clear evidence as there is for the harm caused by second-hand smoke? Remember Roy Castle, lifelong non-smoker, died of lung cancer after years playing music in smoky clubs. Try telling his widow that smoke only harms the smoker. I don't think even if he had been vegan it would have saved him from a horrible death. And of course his name has been used to promote, you've guessed it, yet more vivisection, in the name of cancer cures, even though most cancer is preventable. The smokers have to take some responsibility for this state of affairs. If someone smokes in a public place or near my kids, it's MY right to make as much fuss as I want, they are abusing us as far as I am concerned and I have the right to defend myself and my family. Despite my chest problems I am not gaunt and listless, and I am not a hypochondriac, I avoid doctors as much as possible in fact. My question is what kind of vegan can you claim to be if you smoke, without looking like a complete hypocrite? You obviously can't be vegan for health reasons, or the smoking would have been one of the first things to go, and you can't very well be vegan for ethical reasons because tobacco companies are very unethical, enslaving people with a deadly addiction (and they have known for years what they are doing), and having tested on animals, and many cigarettes are not vegan, and it is so avoidable, unlike a life-saving medicine, so I am puzzled as to the reasons for being vegan for a person who defends her right to smoke. I also believe that groups like Animal Aid lose public credibility when they allow people to smoke on marches and demos against animal abuse. I feel ashamed to be on a demo alongside so-called animal rights people smoking, it creates a really bad impression. They might as well be eating meat! It's just about as hypocritical, because of the animal abuse link and it's a lot easier to be a non-smoker than to be a strict vegan. Think of the money you would save if you quit. If you don't need it for yourself, you could give it to Vegfam or an animal charity or cancer research which doesn't involve vivisection. What a great gift for your own life and others that would be. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 Yes, the lungs of smokers get clogged with black tar and soot deposits, compare to a real coal fire and the soot up the chimney that builds up, that is how smokers' lungs are. This is inevitable for any smoker (whether cannabis or tobacco), and this is even before the hundreds of toxins in the smoke get to their bloodstream, and in a pregnant woman those poisons get into the unborn child too. I was reading the other day that obesity was second only to smoking as a cause of cancer, about 7% of the fatal cancers affecting non- smokers could be attributed to obesity. Mind you there is overweight and there is obese, which is calculated by the Body Mass Index. I was just within the obese level when I decided I had to tackle the problem, as my backside was threatening to cause a total solar eclipse. Certain specific cancers are associated with obesity. I don't know if anyone has studied enough overweight vegans to see if we are at more or less risk or the same as omnis, that would be interesting, because for instance our cholesterol levels are different, even if we are overweight. My husband is overweight too, but when his cholesterol was tested it was a lot lower than expected for a man of his weight, and that has to be because of not eating animal fats. I highly recommend Weight Watchers but with my own warning added, getting down to a healthy weight can increase fertility! After the baby, I am going back to following WW points system, I hope it allows for breastfeeding, WW points counting is highly effective and can work fine for vegans. You can eat what you like so long as you stick to your points limit. It really encouraged me to fill up on the right foods to keep my points low, so I didn't get too hungry. Oh, and women are supposed to have more body fat than men anyway, we aren't meant to be skinny waifs! Like you, I know that being overweight is a problem for me, mostly since having the kids (I used to be naturally quite the ideal size), and I don't get defensive. I know I am fat and it isn't good for me, I don't mind too much if people tell me it's bad for me, especially if they have helpful ideas I can follow in pregnancy. Lesley - chewing virtuously on a raw carrot. > I can't understand why people keep denying the dangers .surely putting smoke > into a filtering apparatus[lungs],is going to put them under strain and > cause harm. > > I'm overweight .I' don't mind being told I will shorten my life etc because > its true .there's no point in my saying its my business etc or the > scientists may be wrong -they can be- but it's clear from the number of > early deaths from obesity and smoking,that its not a healthy option. > > Lesley is only trying to advise.I can't understand why people get so > defensive > Angie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 --- Lesley Dove <100706.3632 wrote: > > > > Lesley, firstly get diagnosed, after all if > you > > are worried about asthma and are not a complete > > hypochondriac<which I am in 2 minds about> then > the > > doc will listen to you and you will be given the > > required medication. Secondly, its my right to > smoke > > if I want to as it is only me being hurt by it<I > don`t > > smoke indoors anywhere> and thirdly, its pretty > sad if > > you believe all you read with regards to cannabis! > if > > we believed all we read, then animal experiments > would > > be perfectly humane, all veggies/vegans are gaunt > and > > listless, and Elvis would be living on the > moon!!!!!!! > > have some common sense Lesley! > > > > > Actually even if I am slightly asthmatic, I want to > avoid medication- not much point taking even a herbal remedy if you have`nt been diagnosed! > from the doc because of animal ingredients in most > tablets, and > animal testing and possible side-effects. I much > prefer the idea of > the herbal teas, such as coltsfoot, as suggested by > Hannah. I don't > think it is so severe as to need pharmaceutical > drugs. > Hannah, I would like to be in touch with that > herbalist in Watford, I > do not think herb teas always taste too nice, a bit > bitter usually, > but that's OK I can cope with that! If your > herbalist friend can > help, I would go and get help that way rather than > get ventolin. I > don't want to just buy some herbs without a > consultation with a > herbalist in case they aren't safe in pregnancy. > It's really funny you lecturing me on common sense, > since you really > don't seem to believe that second-hand smoke does > harm despite the > evidence. Do people with common sense ignore such > clear evidence as > there is for the harm caused by second-hand smoke? > Remember Roy > Castle, lifelong non-smoker, died of lung cancer > after years playing > music in smoky clubs. Try telling his widow that > smoke only harms the I already pointed out I don`t smoke in enclosed public places such as pubs, clubs etc! > smoker. I don't think even if he had been vegan it > would have saved > him from a horrible death. And of course his name > has been used to > promote, you've guessed it, yet more vivisection, in > the name of > cancer cures, even though most cancer is > preventable. The smokers > have to take some responsibility for this state of > affairs. > If someone smokes in a public place or near my kids, > it's MY right to > make as much fuss as I want, they are abusing us as > far as I am > concerned and I have the right to defend myself and > my family. You ever thought the world is too over crowded? > Despite my chest problems I am not gaunt and > listless, and I am not a > hypochondriac, I avoid doctors as much as possible > in fact.well don`t claim to be asthmatic, I have lived with the problem for several years now<not from smoking> > My question is what kind of vegan can you claim to > be if you smoke, > without looking like a complete hypocrite? > You obviously can't be vegan for health reasons, or > the smoking would > have been one of the first things to go, and you > can't very well be > vegan for ethical reasons because tobacco companies > are very <I don`t smoke tobacco that has been tested>!!! > unethical, enslaving people with a deadly addiction > (and they have > known for years what they are doing), and having > tested on animals, > and many cigarettes are not vegan, and it is so > avoidable, unlike a > life-saving medicine, so I am puzzled as to the > reasons for being < I regularly go on demonstrations against hunting, vivisection, circuses,live exports and anything else that uses animal, also run a stall against all animal abuse! what the fuck do you do??? > vegan for a person who defends her right to smoke. > I also believe that groups like Animal Aid lose > public credibility > when they allow people to smoke on marches and demos > against animal How absolutely ridiculous you sound, we are not living in a big brother type state that tells people what to wear,think or do, I am an individual, so much more than you will ever be... > abuse. I feel ashamed to be on a demo alongside > so-called animal > rights people smoking, it creates a really bad > impression. They might > as well be eating meat! It's just about as > hypocritical, because of > the animal abuse link and it's a lot easier to be a > non-smoker than > to be a strict vegan.What an absolute pile of shite you speak dear Lesley, you are actually the worst kind of vegan, the type that preaches without fully knowing the facts, I smoke tobacco that I buy from Holland and Barret, so don`t you dare say these things to me, I have more common sense than you will ever have, and you know it too!!! > Think of the money you would save if you quit. If > you don't need it > for yourself, you could give it to Vegfam or an > animal charity or > cancer research which doesn't involve vivisection. > What a great gift<I give plenty of money to the dr hadwen trust which is constantly working to find out alternative ways of testing products and pharmaceuticals > for your own life and others that would be.Would be so much better for the planet if you werent overstocking it Lesley, but you are adding to the crisis by reproducing, THINK ABOUT IT... > > Lesley > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 I don't understand why we have another person being rude to Lesley when her remarks were polite even tho' of opposing views. Lesley does a lot for the cause.Usually by starting up groups that don't exist but are very much needed. Going on demos is valuable and what I love doing ,but there are other ways to get the message across too. Sara is implying that Lesley does nothing ..She clearly does not know her ,I suggests she keeps her ears and eyes open ..I had heard of the name Lesley Dove 10 yrs before I met her .I wouldn't be rude enough to ask anyone here what they do.I'd prefer to assume they do as much as they can given their circumstances. Its also a pity some people have to use bad language to get their point across. " sara oliver " <sarathe <vegan-network > Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:05 PM Re: Re: South Wales vegans > > < I regularly go on demonstrations > against hunting, vivisection, circuses,live exports > and anything else that uses animal, also run a stall > against all animal abuse! what the fuck do you do??? > we are not living in a big brother type state that > tells people what to wear,think or do, I am an > individual, so much more than you will ever be... ..What an absolute pile of shite > you speak dear Lesley, you are actually the worst kind > of vegan, the type that preaches without fully knowing > the facts, I smoke tobacco that I buy from Holland and > Barret, so don`t you dare say these things to me, I > have more common sense than you will ever have, and > you know it too!!! <I give plenty of money to the dr > hadwen trust which is constantly working to find out > alternative ways of testing products and > pharmaceuticals > > for your own life and others that would be.Would be > so much better for the planet if you werent > overstocking it Lesley, but you are adding to the > crisis by reproducing, THINK ABOUT IT... > > > > __________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 > > --- Lesley Dove <100706.3632@c...> wrote: > > > > > Lesley, firstly get diagnosed, after all if > > you > > > are worried about asthma and are not a complete > > > hypochondriac<which I am in 2 minds about> then > > the > > > doc will listen to you and you will be given the > > > required medication. Secondly, its my right to > > smoke > > > if I want to as it is only me being hurt by it<I > > don`t > > > smoke indoors anywhere> and thirdly, its pretty > > sad if > > > you believe all you read with regards to cannabis! > > if > > > we believed all we read, then animal experiments > > would > > > be perfectly humane, all veggies/vegans are gaunt > > and > > > listless, and Elvis would be living on the > > moon!!!!!!! > > > have some common sense Lesley! > > > > > > > Actually even if I am slightly asthmatic, I want to > > avoid medication- not much point taking even a > herbal remedy if you have`nt been diagnosed! Most doctors are a load of rubbish anyway, they are often anti-vegan and know little of nutrition. They have hardly any training in nutrition, so it's hardly surprising. I only use them when I really have to. I'm perfectly happy to consult a trained herbalist or homoeopath, or other fully qualified complementary practitioner, they often know more about healthy living than conventional doctors. > > from the doc because of animal ingredients in most > > tablets, and > > animal testing and possible side-effects. I much > > prefer the idea of > > the herbal teas, such as coltsfoot, as suggested by > > Hannah. I don't > > think it is so severe as to need pharmaceutical > > drugs. > > Hannah, I would like to be in touch with that > > herbalist in Watford, I > > do not think herb teas always taste too nice, a bit > > bitter usually, > > but that's OK I can cope with that! If your > > herbalist friend can > > help, I would go and get help that way rather than > > get ventolin. I > > don't want to just buy some herbs without a > > consultation with a > > herbalist in case they aren't safe in pregnancy. > > It's really funny you lecturing me on common sense, > > since you really > > don't seem to believe that second-hand smoke does > > harm despite the > > evidence. Do people with common sense ignore such > > clear evidence as > > there is for the harm caused by second-hand smoke? > > Remember Roy > > Castle, lifelong non-smoker, died of lung cancer > > after years playing > > music in smoky clubs. Try telling his widow that > > smoke only harms the I already pointed out I don`t > smoke in enclosed public places such as pubs, clubs > etc! Oh well, aren't you just Miss Perfect? Whaddya want, a medal? > > smoker. I don't think even if he had been vegan it > > would have saved > > him from a horrible death. And of course his name > > has been used to > > promote, you've guessed it, yet more vivisection, in > > the name of > > cancer cures, even though most cancer is > > preventable. The smokers > > have to take some responsibility for this state of > > affairs. > > If someone smokes in a public place or near my kids, > > it's MY right to > > make as much fuss as I want, they are abusing us as > > far as I am > > concerned and I have the right to defend myself and > > my family. You ever thought the world is too over > crowded? What is that to do with it? You think the world is overpopulated so it follows that my children should be abused and hurt? What a nice person you sound - not! You are the worst kind of vegan with these anti-human attitudes. That gives vegans a bad name. > > Despite my chest problems I am not gaunt and > > listless, and I am not a > > hypochondriac, I avoid doctors as much as possible > > in fact.well don`t claim to be asthmatic, I have > lived with the problem for several years now<not from > smoking> Don't make me laugh, you are asthmatic and still smoke, and you claim common sense? You are almost funny! My mother is asthmatic, and still smokes. I have enough reason to believe I am asthmatic, from all the things I have read, and I am not convinced that I even need a doctor to confirm it. Doctors are sometimes wrong, the doctor we had when I was a kid never advised my mother to quit smoking despite my constant catarrh and chest infections. I know that he was wrong to not see that I needed protecting from this abuse. If he had had any sense at all about child health, he would have called in social services to have me placed in a foster home with clean air. > > My question is what kind of vegan can you claim to > > be if you smoke, > > without looking like a complete hypocrite? > > You obviously can't be vegan for health reasons, or > > the smoking would > > have been one of the first things to go, and you > > can't very well be > > vegan for ethical reasons because tobacco companies > > are very <I don`t smoke tobacco that has been > tested>!!! It's still unethical for the companies to turn people into addicts! > > unethical, enslaving people with a deadly addiction > > (and they have > > known for years what they are doing), and having > > tested on animals, > > and many cigarettes are not vegan, and it is so > > avoidable, unlike a > > life-saving medicine, so I am puzzled as to the > > reasons for being < I regularly go on demonstrations > against hunting, vivisection, circuses,live exports > and anything else that uses animal, also run a stall > against all animal abuse! what the fuck do you do??? Not as much on animal rights activism these days as I used to, I certainly used to help out a lot with stalls and demos, and will do more again when the kids are older. I am involved in the Vegan Families group which was my idea in the first place, because peer support for those of us raising kids this way is so important. I noticed a distinct lack of that support and much isolation of vegan families when I had my first child, and realised this was where I might be best able to concentrate my social activism for a few years at least. We set an example to other parents that families can be vegan. I care about people as well as animals. Nothing wrong with that. > > vegan for a person who defends her right to smoke. > > I also believe that groups like Animal Aid lose > > public credibility > > when they allow people to smoke on marches and demos > > against animal How absolutely ridiculous you sound, > we are not living in a big brother type state that > tells people what to wear,think or do, I am an > individual, so much more than you will ever be... You are an individual who is because of her smoking habit far more likely to need in the future more medical products of vivisection than I am likely to need. Time you got real about the responsibility that comes with being an Ethical Vegan, the responsibility to not inflict upon yourself diseases requiring drugs tested on animals. > > abuse. I feel ashamed to be on a demo alongside > > so-called animal > > rights people smoking, it creates a really bad > > impression. They might > > as well be eating meat! It's just about as > > hypocritical, because of > > the animal abuse link and it's a lot easier to be a > > non-smoker than > > to be a strict vegan.What an absolute pile of shite > you speak dear Lesley, you are actually the worst kind > of vegan, the type that preaches without fully knowing > the facts, I smoke tobacco that I buy from Holland and > Barret, so don`t you dare say these things to me, I > have more common sense than you will ever have, and > you know it too!!! I do know the facts well enough. Holland and Barrett are no better than any other shops, selling tobacco of any kind, it is not healthy, they are a strange kind of health food shop. I notice that they sell whatever sells regardless of how healthy or ethical it is, but pretend to be a health food shop. Not all of us are fooled. We shop there occasionally, but we prefer real health food shops. In some areas H & B have put the small independent health foods out of business and this has actually reduced choices in shopping for vegans. I will dare say what I like to you or anyone else, you are pretty rude yourself. > > Think of the money you would save if you quit. If > > you don't need it > > for yourself, you could give it to Vegfam or an > > animal charity or > > cancer research which doesn't involve vivisection. > > What a great gift<I give plenty of money to the dr > hadwen trust which is constantly working to find out > alternative ways of testing products and > pharmaceuticals It's still better to live so as to need pharmaceuticals as little as possible in the first place. > > for your own life and others that would be.Would be > so much better for the planet if you werent > overstocking it Lesley, but you are adding to the > crisis by reproducing, THINK ABOUT IT... I thought about it for several years before having children, my opinion is that some of us have to bring up a few of the next generation with vegan ethics, but I'm not trying to tell all vegans to have kids. If we leave the next generation all to the carnivores, the world will be in an even sorrier state. You don't have to have kids yourself since you hate them so much. If you really believe that the population crisis is so dire, why are you not doing the world a favour and committing suicide a bit more quickly? Smoking is rather a slow way to do it, and it is not guaranteed to work although there is a pretty good chance it will shorten your life. I don't advocate suicide, but it is what you would do if you really believed what you are saying about too many people in the world. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 vegan-network, " Angie Wright " <angiewright@n...> wrote: > I don't understand why we have another person being rude to Lesley when her > remarks were polite even tho' of opposing views. > Ha, I have somewhat given up being polite to this person now! > > Lesley does a lot for the cause.Usually by starting up groups that don't > exist but are very much needed. > I try, although I confess that some things don't last, the Vegan Families thing is proving quite successful. > > Going on demos is valuable and what I love doing ,but there are other ways > to get the message across too. Sara is implying that Lesley does nothing > .She clearly does not know her ,I suggests she keeps her ears and eyes open > .I had heard of the name Lesley Dove 10 yrs before I met her .I wouldn't be > rude enough to ask anyone here what they do.I'd prefer to assume they do as > much as they can given their circumstances. > Actually maybe you heard of me a little less than 10 years ago, I was Lesley Roberts, then Lesley Roberts-Oliver (I was married to an Oliver, probably not related to Sara, for all his faults he was not a hateful person), and Lesley Dove since only about 8 years ago. I'm surprised you had heard of me, I know a lot of people do more and are not well-known. I don't think being well-known to a few vegans means I do all that much actually, but as you say, depending on my circumstances I try. So Sara thinks I sold out by having a family, that's her problem, I've felt this attitude from AR activists many times before. We know I haven't sold out and stopped caring about the suffering of animals. > > Its also a pity some people have to use bad language to get their point > across. > They resort to it when they are angry and frustrated because they know they have lost the argument. Lesley > > Angie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 Lesley I read articles by you and I think you are a contact in one of the groups ..You replied to a letter of mine about handicapped children.one way or another i kept seeing your namePerhaps it was 8 years ago .I just picked on 10 for convenience - " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 <vegan-network > Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:03 PM Re: South Wales vegans > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 I am afraid to say that I am a smoker myself, but I do agree with what you're saying. It is a filthy habit. I have tried giving up on several occasions, for many reasons including the fact that tobacco products have been tested on animals. But aren't most things at some point? What about the dyes in our clothes, etc? Sometimes it's just so difficult to avoid it completely. You're right, I know I should give up and I suppose it is hypocritical. After several failed attempts at stopping, I always go back. I just don't have the will power. But I do try to be considerate towards others who don't smoke. And I never smoke around children. I don't have any of my own, but maybe that's what it will take for me to give up. [not that I'm now going to rush out and get pregnant!] Anyway changing the subject, Weight Watchers is a good idea. I lost 2 stone a few years back. I wasn't sure if it would be good for vegans, but I found that most of the recipes were vegan and delicious! Couldn't understand why I was a bit chubby before as I told the woman at WW that I eat that sort of stuff anyway. But it was just a case of having smaller portions and cutting out the fat. Easy! [i only wish giving up smoking were as easy!]Good luck with WW! Dee > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 >vegan-network >vegan-network > Re: South Wales vegans >Tue, 22 May 2001 10:50:30 -0000 > > >Yes, the lungs of smokers get clogged with black tar and soot >deposits, compare to a real coal fire and the soot up the chimney >that builds up, that is how smokers' lungs are. This is inevitable >for any smoker (whether cannabis or tobacco), and this is even before >the hundreds of toxins in the smoke get to their bloodstream, and in >a pregnant woman those poisons get into the unborn child too. > >I was reading the other day that obesity was second only to smoking >as a cause of cancer, about 7% of the fatal cancers affecting non- >smokers could be attributed to obesity. >Mind you there is overweight and there is obese, which is calculated >by the Body Mass Index. I was just within the obese level when I >decided I had to tackle the problem, as my backside was threatening >to cause a total solar eclipse. >Certain specific cancers are associated with obesity. I don't know if >anyone has studied enough overweight vegans to see if we are at more >or less risk or the same as omnis, that would be interesting, because >for instance our cholesterol levels are different, even if we are >overweight. My husband is overweight too, but when his cholesterol >was tested it was a lot lower than expected for a man of his weight, >and that has to be because of not eating animal fats. >I highly recommend Weight Watchers but with my own warning added, >getting down to a healthy weight can increase fertility! >After the baby, I am going back to following WW points system, I hope >it allows for breastfeeding, WW points counting is highly effective >and can work fine for vegans. You can eat what you like so long as >you stick to your points limit. It really encouraged me to fill up on >the right foods to keep my points low, so I didn't get too hungry. >Oh, and women are supposed to have more body fat than men anyway, we >aren't meant to be skinny waifs! >Like you, I know that being overweight is a problem for me, mostly >since having the kids (I used to be naturally quite the ideal size), >and I don't get defensive. I know I am fat and it isn't good for me, >I don't mind too much if people tell me it's bad for me, especially >if they have helpful ideas I can follow in pregnancy. > >Lesley - chewing virtuously on a raw carrot. > > > > I can't understand why people keep denying the dangers .surely >putting smoke > > into a filtering apparatus[lungs],is going to put them under strain >and > > cause harm. > > > > I'm overweight .I' don't mind being told I will shorten my life etc >because > > its true .there's no point in my saying its my business etc or the > > scientists may be wrong -they can be- but it's clear from the >number of > > early deaths from obesity and smoking,that its not a healthy option. > > > > Lesley is only trying to advise.I can't understand why people get so > > defensive > > Angie > > > > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 --- Lesley Dove <100706.3632 wrote: > vegan-network, " Angie Wright " > <angiewright@n...> wrote: > > I don't understand why we have another person > being rude to Lesley > when her > > remarks were polite even tho' of opposing views. > > > Ha, I have somewhat given up being polite to this > person now! > > > > Lesley does a lot for the cause.Usually by > starting up groups that > don't > > exist but are very much needed. > > > I try, although I confess that some things don't > last, the Vegan > Families thing is proving quite successful. > > > > Going on demos is valuable and what I love doing > ,but there are > other ways > > to get the message across too. Sara is implying > that Lesley does > nothing <as does Lesley not know me, and I will thank her not to insult me before she has her facts straight, I put nobodys health at risk by smoking holland and barratt cigerettes as I pointed out in my previous mail, maybe she would like to answer that one> > > .She clearly does not know her ,I suggests she > keeps her ears and > eyes open > > .I had heard of the name Lesley Dove 10 yrs > before I met her .I > wouldn't be > > rude enough to ask anyone here what they do.I'd > prefer to assume > they do as > > much as they can given their circumstances. > > > Actually maybe you heard of me a little less than 10 > years ago, I was > Lesley Roberts, then Lesley Roberts-Oliver (I was > married to an > Oliver, probably not related to Sara, for all his > faults he was not a > hateful person), and Lesley Dove since only about 8 > years ago. > I'm surprised you had heard of me, I know a lot of > people do more and > are not well-known. I don't think being well-known > to a few vegans > means I do all that much actually, but as you say, > depending on my > circumstances I try. > So Sara thinks I sold out by having a family, that's > her problem,< no its the planets problem unfortunatly> > I've felt this attitude from AR activists many times > before. We know > I haven't sold out and stopped caring about the > suffering of animals. > > > > Its also a pity some people have to use bad > language to get their > point > > across. > > > They resort to it when they are angry and frustrated > because they > know they have lost the argument.I realise I have not lost any argument, bearing in mind I don`t smoke animal tested cigarettes, which is what this argument is about Lesley. Would you please bear this in mind before condemning me as a non ethical, non caring vegan and long term animal rights activist... > > Lesley > > > > > Angie > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 well you must be a really ethical person yourself Lesley, you have just told me, and I quote` why don`t you do the world a favour and commit suicide a bit quicker`, I believe this tells people all they need to know about what kind of person you are....... __________ Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 vegan-network, sara oliver <sarathe@c...> wrote: > well you must be a really ethical person yourself > Lesley, you have just told me, and I quote` why don`t > you do the world a favour and commit suicide a bit > quicker`, I believe this tells people all they need to > know about what kind of person you are....... > I'm sorry if the irony of that was lost on you. I didn't mean that that was what I believed you should do, I was not advocating it, merely pointing out that this would be the logical thing for you to do if you really believe that the population problem is so dire that even Ethical Vegans should not have children. Don't forget that you were pretty nasty about the fact that my kids even exist, when I expressed a desire to protect them from second- hand smoke. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 vegan-network, " Dee Matheson " <dmatheson72@h...> wrote: > > I am afraid to say that I am a smoker myself, but I do agree with what > you're saying. It is a filthy habit. I have tried giving up on several > occasions, for many reasons including the fact that tobacco products have > been tested on animals. But aren't most things at some point? What about the > dyes in our clothes, etc? Sometimes it's just so difficult to avoid it > completely. You're right, I know I should give up and I suppose it is > hypocritical. After several failed attempts at stopping, I always go back. I > just don't have the will power. But I do try to be considerate towards > others who don't smoke. And I never smoke around children. I don't have any > of my own, but maybe that's what it will take for me to give up. [not that > I'm now going to rush out and get pregnant!] I did hear there was a good book which might help you: Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking. It has had rave reviews from many former smokers. > Anyway changing the subject, Weight Watchers is a good idea. I lost 2 stone > a few years back. I wasn't sure if it would be good for vegans, but I found > that most of the recipes were vegan and delicious! Couldn't understand why I > was a bit chubby before as I told the woman at WW that I eat that sort of > stuff anyway. But it was just a case of having smaller portions and cutting > out the fat. Easy! [i only wish giving up smoking were as easy!] Good luck > with WW! > Dee Thanks, I promise to get back onto that soon after the baby is born. I didn't find it exactly easy to eat less, but it was made easier by eating lots of " no points " and low points foods. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 > > >I did hear there was a good book which might help you: >Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking. >It has had rave reviews from many former smokers. Thanks. After sending the last message I told my work-mate to hide my tobacco. That was roughly about......6 hrs, 3 mins and 7 secs ago! Not doing too badly! > > >Thanks, > >I promise to get back onto that soon after the baby is born. When is the baby due? What's it like bringing children up vegan? Do they ever feel alienated at school [if they are old enough to attend school], meat eating friends parties,etc? How do you explain to them about being vegan, but not turning them against meat-eaters in the family? I expect they have a lot of vegan friends within your family group. Dee > > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 vegan-network, sara oliver <sarathe@c...> wrote: > > --- Lesley Dove <100706.3632@c...> wrote: > > vegan-network, " Angie Wright " > > <angiewright@n...> wrote: > > > I don't understand why we have another person > > being rude to Lesley > > when her > > > remarks were polite even tho' of opposing views. > > > > > Ha, I have somewhat given up being polite to this > > person now! > > > > > > Lesley does a lot for the cause.Usually by > > starting up groups that > > don't > > > exist but are very much needed. > > > > > I try, although I confess that some things don't > > last, the Vegan > > Families thing is proving quite successful. > > > > > > Going on demos is valuable and what I love doing > > ,but there are > > other ways > > > to get the message across too. Sara is implying > > that Lesley does > > nothing <as does Lesley not know me, and I will > thank her not to insult me before she has her facts > straight, I put nobodys health at risk by smoking > holland and barratt cigerettes as I pointed out in my > previous mail, maybe she would like to answer that > one> It's about a lot more than animal testing of cigarettes, it's about having compassion for yourself since veganism is about compassion for all living things, and there is also the fact that since you are against vivisection, you should try to live more healthily so as to reduce your likelihood of needing lots of the medical products of vivisection. By smoking you are making it more likely that you will need more treatments than non-smokers, and many drugs contain animal by products as well as being animal tested. Not many people can avoid illness and pharmaceuticals all the time, but smoking makes it more likely you will get sick and need a lot of these things. Do you get the rest of my argument now? Lesley > > > .She clearly does not know her ,I suggests she > > keeps her ears and > > eyes open > > > .I had heard of the name Lesley Dove 10 yrs > > before I met her .I > > wouldn't be > > > rude enough to ask anyone here what they do.I'd > > prefer to assume > > they do as > > > much as they can given their circumstances. > > > > > Actually maybe you heard of me a little less than 10 > > years ago, I was > > Lesley Roberts, then Lesley Roberts-Oliver (I was > > married to an > > Oliver, probably not related to Sara, for all his > > faults he was not a > > hateful person), and Lesley Dove since only about 8 > > years ago. > > I'm surprised you had heard of me, I know a lot of > > people do more and > > are not well-known. I don't think being well-known > > to a few vegans > > means I do all that much actually, but as you say, > > depending on my > > circumstances I try. > > So Sara thinks I sold out by having a family, that's > > her problem,< no its the planets problem > unfortunatly> > > I've felt this attitude from AR activists many times > > before. We know > > I haven't sold out and stopped caring about the > > suffering of animals. > > > > > > Its also a pity some people have to use bad > > language to get their > > point > > > across. > > > > > They resort to it when they are angry and frustrated > > because they > > know they have lost the argument.I realise I have > not lost any argument, bearing in mind I don`t smoke > animal tested cigarettes, which is what this argument > is about Lesley. Would you please bear this in mind > before condemning me as a non ethical, non caring > vegan and long term animal rights activist... > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > Angie > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.