Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Reading that downloadable book (http://www.vegan.com), an expert (?) says the planet can only support 2 billion people sustainably, that's 3 times less than now. The only reason we can support 6 billion is due to petrochemical fertilisers and pesticides. If everyone were vegan the planet could support near 7 billion, sustainably. Lesley Dove [100706.3632] 22 May 2001 22:52 vegan-network Re: South Wales vegans > > --- Lesley Dove <100706.3632@c...> wrote: > > > > > Lesley, firstly get diagnosed, after all if > > you > > > are worried about asthma and are not a complete > > > hypochondriac<which I am in 2 minds about> then > > the > > > doc will listen to you and you will be given the > > > required medication. Secondly, its my right to > > smoke > > > if I want to as it is only me being hurt by it<I > > don`t > > > smoke indoors anywhere> and thirdly, its pretty > > sad if > > > you believe all you read with regards to cannabis! > > if > > > we believed all we read, then animal experiments > > would > > > be perfectly humane, all veggies/vegans are gaunt > > and > > > listless, and Elvis would be living on the > > moon!!!!!!! > > > have some common sense Lesley! > > > > > > > Actually even if I am slightly asthmatic, I want to > > avoid medication- not much point taking even a > herbal remedy if you have`nt been diagnosed! Most doctors are a load of rubbish anyway, they are often anti-vegan and know little of nutrition. They have hardly any training in nutrition, so it's hardly surprising. I only use them when I really have to. I'm perfectly happy to consult a trained herbalist or homoeopath, or other fully qualified complementary practitioner, they often know more about healthy living than conventional doctors. > > from the doc because of animal ingredients in most > > tablets, and > > animal testing and possible side-effects. I much > > prefer the idea of > > the herbal teas, such as coltsfoot, as suggested by > > Hannah. I don't > > think it is so severe as to need pharmaceutical > > drugs. > > Hannah, I would like to be in touch with that > > herbalist in Watford, I > > do not think herb teas always taste too nice, a bit > > bitter usually, > > but that's OK I can cope with that! If your > > herbalist friend can > > help, I would go and get help that way rather than > > get ventolin. I > > don't want to just buy some herbs without a > > consultation with a > > herbalist in case they aren't safe in pregnancy. > > It's really funny you lecturing me on common sense, > > since you really > > don't seem to believe that second-hand smoke does > > harm despite the > > evidence. Do people with common sense ignore such > > clear evidence as > > there is for the harm caused by second-hand smoke? > > Remember Roy > > Castle, lifelong non-smoker, died of lung cancer > > after years playing > > music in smoky clubs. Try telling his widow that > > smoke only harms the I already pointed out I don`t > smoke in enclosed public places such as pubs, clubs > etc! Oh well, aren't you just Miss Perfect? Whaddya want, a medal? > > smoker. I don't think even if he had been vegan it > > would have saved > > him from a horrible death. And of course his name > > has been used to > > promote, you've guessed it, yet more vivisection, in > > the name of > > cancer cures, even though most cancer is > > preventable. The smokers > > have to take some responsibility for this state of > > affairs. > > If someone smokes in a public place or near my kids, > > it's MY right to > > make as much fuss as I want, they are abusing us as > > far as I am > > concerned and I have the right to defend myself and > > my family. You ever thought the world is too over > crowded? What is that to do with it? You think the world is overpopulated so it follows that my children should be abused and hurt? What a nice person you sound - not! You are the worst kind of vegan with these anti-human attitudes. That gives vegans a bad name. > > Despite my chest problems I am not gaunt and > > listless, and I am not a > > hypochondriac, I avoid doctors as much as possible > > in fact.well don`t claim to be asthmatic, I have > lived with the problem for several years now<not from > smoking> Don't make me laugh, you are asthmatic and still smoke, and you claim common sense? You are almost funny! My mother is asthmatic, and still smokes. I have enough reason to believe I am asthmatic, from all the things I have read, and I am not convinced that I even need a doctor to confirm it. Doctors are sometimes wrong, the doctor we had when I was a kid never advised my mother to quit smoking despite my constant catarrh and chest infections. I know that he was wrong to not see that I needed protecting from this abuse. If he had had any sense at all about child health, he would have called in social services to have me placed in a foster home with clean air. > > My question is what kind of vegan can you claim to > > be if you smoke, > > without looking like a complete hypocrite? > > You obviously can't be vegan for health reasons, or > > the smoking would > > have been one of the first things to go, and you > > can't very well be > > vegan for ethical reasons because tobacco companies > > are very <I don`t smoke tobacco that has been > tested>!!! It's still unethical for the companies to turn people into addicts! > > unethical, enslaving people with a deadly addiction > > (and they have > > known for years what they are doing), and having > > tested on animals, > > and many cigarettes are not vegan, and it is so > > avoidable, unlike a > > life-saving medicine, so I am puzzled as to the > > reasons for being < I regularly go on demonstrations > against hunting, vivisection, circuses,live exports > and anything else that uses animal, also run a stall > against all animal abuse! what the fuck do you do??? Not as much on animal rights activism these days as I used to, I certainly used to help out a lot with stalls and demos, and will do more again when the kids are older. I am involved in the Vegan Families group which was my idea in the first place, because peer support for those of us raising kids this way is so important. I noticed a distinct lack of that support and much isolation of vegan families when I had my first child, and realised this was where I might be best able to concentrate my social activism for a few years at least. We set an example to other parents that families can be vegan. I care about people as well as animals. Nothing wrong with that. > > vegan for a person who defends her right to smoke. > > I also believe that groups like Animal Aid lose > > public credibility > > when they allow people to smoke on marches and demos > > against animal How absolutely ridiculous you sound, > we are not living in a big brother type state that > tells people what to wear,think or do, I am an > individual, so much more than you will ever be... You are an individual who is because of her smoking habit far more likely to need in the future more medical products of vivisection than I am likely to need. Time you got real about the responsibility that comes with being an Ethical Vegan, the responsibility to not inflict upon yourself diseases requiring drugs tested on animals. > > abuse. I feel ashamed to be on a demo alongside > > so-called animal > > rights people smoking, it creates a really bad > > impression. They might > > as well be eating meat! It's just about as > > hypocritical, because of > > the animal abuse link and it's a lot easier to be a > > non-smoker than > > to be a strict vegan.What an absolute pile of shite > you speak dear Lesley, you are actually the worst kind > of vegan, the type that preaches without fully knowing > the facts, I smoke tobacco that I buy from Holland and > Barret, so don`t you dare say these things to me, I > have more common sense than you will ever have, and > you know it too!!! I do know the facts well enough. Holland and Barrett are no better than any other shops, selling tobacco of any kind, it is not healthy, they are a strange kind of health food shop. I notice that they sell whatever sells regardless of how healthy or ethical it is, but pretend to be a health food shop. Not all of us are fooled. We shop there occasionally, but we prefer real health food shops. In some areas H & B have put the small independent health foods out of business and this has actually reduced choices in shopping for vegans. I will dare say what I like to you or anyone else, you are pretty rude yourself. > > Think of the money you would save if you quit. If > > you don't need it > > for yourself, you could give it to Vegfam or an > > animal charity or > > cancer research which doesn't involve vivisection. > > What a great gift<I give plenty of money to the dr > hadwen trust which is constantly working to find out > alternative ways of testing products and > pharmaceuticals It's still better to live so as to need pharmaceuticals as little as possible in the first place. > > for your own life and others that would be.Would be > so much better for the planet if you werent > overstocking it Lesley, but you are adding to the > crisis by reproducing, THINK ABOUT IT... I thought about it for several years before having children, my opinion is that some of us have to bring up a few of the next generation with vegan ethics, but I'm not trying to tell all vegans to have kids. If we leave the next generation all to the carnivores, the world will be in an even sorrier state. You don't have to have kids yourself since you hate them so much. If you really believe that the population crisis is so dire, why are you not doing the world a favour and committing suicide a bit more quickly? Smoking is rather a slow way to do it, and it is not guaranteed to work although there is a pretty good chance it will shorten your life. I don't advocate suicide, but it is what you would do if you really believed what you are saying about too many people in the world. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 vegan-network, " Mccartney, Rowan (R.N.) " <rmccar14@v...> wrote: > Reading that downloadable book (http://www.vegan.com), an expert (?) says > the planet can only support 2 billion people sustainably, that's 3 times > less than now. The only reason we can support 6 billion is due to > petrochemical fertilisers and pesticides. If everyone were vegan the planet > could support near 7 billion, sustainably. > So, because meat-eaters are the ones responsible for the (perceived) population problem, vegans have no reason to feel guilty for having children, because there is not in reality any such thing as a population problem, it just might appear that way because of meat- eaters and their unsustainable lifestyle. This is why I refuse to let Sara's comments make me feel like a bad vegan for having children. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 I think by all rights children being born into vegan families should be absolutely encouraged!! without a doubt!!! besides directly increasing the number of vegans in the world and making it less of an obscure dietary 'experiment', those born into vegan families one would hope would have an interest in green issues and animal rights etc. think of the positive contribution you yourself can and have made to veganism and the planet's health, now multiply that by anybody you have 'converted' or given birth to, each person can make a hell of a difference if they care. Lesley Dove 100706.3632 Wed, 23 May 2001 12:02:26 -0000 vegan-network Re: population ethics (not the subject change!) vegan-network, " Mccartney, Rowan (R.N.) " <rmccar14@v...> wrote: > Reading that downloadable book (http://www.vegan.com), an expert (?) says > the planet can only support 2 billion people sustainably, that's 3 times > less than now. The only reason we can support 6 billion is due to > petrochemical fertilisers and pesticides. If everyone were vegan the planet > could support near 7 billion, sustainably. > So, because meat-eaters are the ones responsible for the (perceived) population problem, vegans have no reason to feel guilty for having children, because there is not in reality any such thing as a population problem, it just might appear that way because of meat- eaters and their unsustainable lifestyle. This is why I refuse to let Sara's comments make me feel like a bad vegan for having children. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 If our vegan kids are healthy ,it proves the lies about it being an unhealthy diet are ,just that LIES. Angie - " Ashley Hooper " <ash_hooper <vegan-network > Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:37 PM Re: Re: population ethics (not the subject change!) > I think by all rights children being born into vegan families should be absolutely encouraged!! without a doubt!!! besides directly increasing the number of vegans in the world and making it less of an obscure dietary 'experiment', those born into vegan families one would hope would have an interest in green issues and animal rights etc. > > think of the positive contribution you yourself can and have made to veganism and the planet's health, now multiply that by anybody you have 'converted' or given birth to, each person can make a hell of a difference if they care. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 But they'll probably outlive the people who are spreading the lies, so they'll never know! sv vegan-network, " Angie Wright " <angiewright@n...> wrote: > If our vegan kids are healthy ,it proves the lies about it being an > unhealthy diet are ,just that LIES. Angie > > > - > " Ashley Hooper " <ash_hooper> > <vegan-network> > Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:37 PM > Re: Re: population ethics (not the subject change!) > > > > I think by all rights children being born into vegan families should be > absolutely encouraged!! without a doubt!!! besides directly increasing the > number of vegans in the world and making it less of an obscure dietary > 'experiment', those born into vegan families one would hope would have an > interest in green issues and animal rights etc. > > > > think of the positive contribution you yourself can and have made to > veganism and the planet's health, now multiply that by anybody you have > 'converted' or given birth to, each person can make a hell of a difference > if they care. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2001 Report Share Posted May 26, 2001 In a message dated 5/23/01 12:00:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rmccar14 writes: If everyone were vegan the planet could support near 7 billion, sustainably. have toooo many folks in my haus already no fank yoo!!! fraggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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