Guest guest Posted June 1, 2001 Report Share Posted June 1, 2001 I honestly think you can't separate the issues. Everything is linked. This is where economics goes wrong, the usual models consider certain aspects in isolation or as mechanical systems. The real world is not like that, its a minutely balanced dynamic feeback system, and thinking that it isn't causes the " law of unexpected consequences " - so much social and economic engineering produces precisely the opposite effect than that was intended. And my stance on supermarkets & capitalism (which BTW I freely take part in everyday - go figure!) is based on my ethical beliefs, mostly stemming from veganism. Its not that I expect others to behave the same way, but I'd like them to make the same consideration about the hidden effects of everyday decisions as they presumably did about becoming vegan (and if your only concern is cruelty to animals, if only for the fact that environmental damage could be killing wild animals, other human animals, capitalism could be exploiting human animals etc). As I said in another post I realise I'm being idealistic, but that gives me something to aspire to, and nothing would ever change if we didn't make these seemingly small choices without considering them. Ask yourself *why* you've never seen a pure vegan shop (and actually I have come across some over the years, but no idea if they're still going). I've hinted above about human rights, and when you bring this into the whole mess maybe you can see why none of the issues are really in isolation. This is why I had to make up the term " socio-ethical enviro-vegan " in a previous post Anyway, more stuff for your dissertation I expect What's it about? -- (outspoken?) Rob vegan-network, Mavreela <nec.lists@m...> wrote: > [i've only snipped this because otherwise I'd have to leave it all in!] > > Anyway you've given me an idea for my (not vegan/ethics/politics) > dissertation so thank you. > > Michael > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2001 Report Share Posted June 1, 2001 Co-operatives though are generally seen as being ethically good but how do they differ on a practical level from supermarkets beyond the size of the area they serve? I'm not, and wouldn't defend, the way in which such companies are run or some of their practices but in general I don't see any ideological problem with them and that is why I dislike it being tied into veganism. What veganism is, and how I practice it, are two different things. I'm sure that most, if not all vegans, ultimately act in contradictory ways simply because in some areas there are no ethical alternatives. Before digital photography did people complain about animal rights causes using photographs in order to promote the cause? I'm not saying that the way the system currently works isn't wrong, or that it shouldn't be protested against, just that the concept itself is not incompatible and reform of the system is just as valid as abolition. And just to take a point from your other mail: >But I just can't see non-vegans choosing the vegan/ethical products >from a supermarket. With the right supporting information I think it is possible, look at the interest in organic food. The biggest thing holding people back from being ethical is price. >Anyway, more stuff for your dissertation I expect What's it about? Not really, it's about whether we are free (as in do social situations restrain us and not the age old free will debate). You made me think why would anyone ever choose to be a supermarket executive? It can't be because you are doing something you strongly belive in and it isn't something that you really enjoy, so why do that? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 Doesn't Sainsbury have Dairy herds and is/was involved in the veal trade. Thats the reason I don't shop in Sainsburies {Except to try out the vegan fudge cake-Given it up now as I'm reducing my fat intake } Angie - " spacevegan " <rob <vegan-network > Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:50 PM [100% veg*n ] Re: Not Sainsbury's! > > > > Anyway, doesn't Lord Sainsbury sit on some sham of an advisory board > telling the government what food policy he wants? > > vegan-network, " Sue Grayson " <suegrayson@n...> wrote: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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