Timothy McVeigh

[Guest guest]

Sickened to hear that this guy will be given a lethal injection on

Monday. How can this sort of thing still go on in this day and

age?!!!!

 

So, what is everyone's opinion on this and the death penalty in

general?? Can you be vegan and condone capital punishment? Are the

people who carry it out any less murderers then the people receiving

it? Is it right that judges can play God with people's lives??

Not in my opinion!!!

 

Sas.

[Guest guest]

Is veganism incompatible with corporal punishment?

 

 

 

What ever happen to our Goddess of Vega? She has become *so* quiet and

serious this week. We miss her.

 

I hope that no one slipped some meat into her diet at the weekend and she

is feeling terminally guilty now. Or may be it was too much of something

chocolate coated.

 

 

 

Isn't McVeigh happy for it to go ahead? if he is cool about it, so am I.

Much more so than a pack of lawyers making a dinner out of the State over

it.

 

Whatever the emotive issue, ultimately our societies are governed by

finite mental, emotional, economic and material resources. groups and

individuals within a society are limited to what can be done with what is

there. the greater interests of the whole have to take precedent above

the interests of the individual.

 

I think that our emotions have been far too manipulated about these

issues in the so called " civilised societies " and that we need to

return to a far intimate yet more detached relationship with death. Far

too much ground has been made up out of self-interest, egotism,

materialism, bog eyed so-called Christianity in the West. [ note, not to

include a genuine Christian Path ]. A simple squeamishness or emotional

immaturity about the realities of life combined with the increasing power

of an unhindered media has created a voice about these matters that is

way out of proportion of it importance to our growth.

 

I never understood the liberal intellectuals making status, and money,

out of a defence of criminals. I can only think that it is because they

do not have to live next door to it. People that do are far more likely

to think that self-policing to the point of rough justice copes better

with problems as they arise. I understand that mistakes are made in that

process of evolution but I am equally concerned that the rise of the

Power of the State has disempowered individuals and communities too far.

it is an unfinished experiment in itself.

 

Funnily enough, I believe that this is closer to a line that McVeigh

would actually take himself. Certainly people should be allowed to decide

on their own death if they want to, if you want to open the debate out to

youthenasia as well.

 

Is it incompatible with veganism?

 

Vegans I have spoken to recently on this list and at the London Vegans

seemed to have gotten into mind that there are two different kinds of

vegans; say, dietary and ethical. I have never held there concepts.

 

But I could see a distinct polarisation between emotive and rational

vegans. Neither are exclusive from each other but it is certainly takes

less brain to be emotive than it does rational and there is a danger that

in being ruled by the emotions [ a lower centre than the mind ] one

become blind to greater principles, greater constraints, greater

necessities just because they challenge the reward one received from

one's emotional state. Emotions are powerfully addictive drugs.

 

To take the Monty Python line, " every sperm in sacred " , to the point of

absurdity and say that " every life is sacred " denies that it is

patently not. There are distinct elements of society that are almost

entirely not sacred. In fact, are committed to the profane. If they were

a biological, they would be a life threatening cancer and the very same "

liberal defence " that stands up for such individuals would race to the

hospital to have it cut out. Sometimes it is necessary to have one limb

cut off to save the whole.

 

Given that we are governed by economics, the question really is, would it

be a better investment to lock this individual up a greater cost than the

rpice of a suite at the Ritz every night or clear the slate and invest

the same money in looking after orphans in the developing nations for

example. Even investing it into education and inner cities so that the

causes that create such problems might be amelorated in the first place.

 

Capital punishment, like responsible animal husbandry, is not inimical to

vegan values. I reckon it is probably enevitable. Thankfully, with the

rise of science, phorensic evidence is becoming far better as pinpointing

the guitly. OK, mistake happen ... but that is life.

 

This is fairly radical to say but I would not vote the return of capital

punishment and the death sentence particularly in the case of repeated

criminality, whether sane or insane. This especially in cases such as

rape and child abuse. Once, OK, it could be a mistake. Twice ... what are

the odds? Three times, out. Society cant afford the unaccounted cost of

crime that it current bears.

 

 

 

Ultimate though we all do things that are regretful or hurt others in

moments of madness. I think the least you can do is be clear about it and

speak to others as soon as possible. Admit to things.

 

You have to give people the chance to understand and move on.

 

 

 

In this case allow a real " Christian " or enlighten forgiveness. There

was an amazing little non-Christian book on forgiveness recently

published if anyone is interested in that route I can dig out the

reference. Forgiveness has to be highly discriminate.

 

To paraphrase the Buddha, indiscriminate charity even of this nature is

also a sin and I would hold all the judges and social workers that free

the sex abuses as guilty you their crime. Where this gets difficult is in

" who's judge " and " who's laws " . Into that battlefield set only

martyrs.

 

 

 

The Book of John for tonight.

 

[ available for weddings, christening and barmitzvahs. speak to my usual

agents ].