[OT] re: punishment

[Guest guest]

I guess this thread is a little bit Off Topic but of course is

interesting to see it thought through by vegans, the rest of whom's lives

are saturated in a greater compassion for life.

 

I think that you missed two types of crimes that by far make up the

greater numbers of violent crimes committed against individuals. [

Bearing in mind that The Law is primarly interested in the protection of

the property of the rich and not the person, and especially not poor or

vulnerable ones ].

 

The first would be habitual crime.

 

Crime committed on a habitual basis by a violator who has learnt that he

can get away with it so easily and that it is easier or takes less effort

than earning legitimate rewards. The larger parts of theft, mugging,

child and sex abuse enter into this equation. Career criminal.

 

The second would be criminal insanity.

 

Crimes committed by mental ill people, a vast increase which have

happened since the " care in the community " program introduced by the

Tories. [ It should of course been called " care in some one else's

community " by them ]. Individuals with no sense of human conscience such

as we understand it.

 

The element that is ignored in the age old " liberal " approach to

criminals [ love and understand them and they will get better ], is the

rise in the deductive power of science and the introduction of now nation

wide surveillance being able to not just pin point the criminal but even

predict the location.

Those arguments were fine when Holmes and Watson were fiddling about in

the dark but now the light of understanding is changing all that.

 

I did be quite happy to have every male in the country DNA sampled if

that was the price to stamp down on violent crimes against women and

children and a return of hard labour for life as a punishment with the

option of the death sentence if the prisoner wanted it or if they broke

the three times rule.

 

It would make an interesting experiment.

 

People say these things " dont work " but if you go to certain Arab

states you can leave your cars keys on the top of your car and they will

both be there when you get back.

 

If I was to list the crimes down against people I know it would sicken

every one of you on the list. You may even have a list yourselves. One

that comes to mind is off a 50 year old 5 foot high Chinese Doctor I know

that was mugged on Christmas Eve by three big black guys one of whom hit

her one the head 2 or 3 times with a hammer. Now this lady had literally

saved lives both as a mid-wife and cancer specialist and was left

fighting for her own.

 

I think the real problem with the issue is that the people who are most

able to represent their ideas live in nice respectable areas and have a

values system that rewards leniency [ as it forgives them of their more

subtle crimes of wealth and possession ]. The people who are least able

to represent their needs are the people who live in poor, ugly, densely

populated, deprived areas and have to deal with these predatory animals

on a daily basis.

 

If the wealthy liberals were happy to sponsor these animals [ and this is

not a jibe at you Rowan because I know nothing of you ] and keep them on

their own territory until they were redeemed in spirit then fine by me.

But in the meantime I will join the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade. I used

to be a liberal until I moved into the inner city. And yes, if someone is

stupid enough to cock a snoot at a foreign country's law for something

completely self serving as alcohol, then fine. Let them pay the price.

The government should have no part in defending them.

 

I am sorry but I have the price we pay for the old liberal view. I dont

have an final answer but I do not think that society can go on affording

it. The whole price to society which is tanglible but not even calcualted

as it is not a crime against property. We need to try out new and radical

solutions.

 

I have known two women that have had to carry guns and both were prepared

to use them. Unless you have seen a woman come to that point, I do not

think that you fully know what you are talking about. One was a South

African, a doctor who worked in the townships, had been a victim of a sex

attack and was statistically likely to be again. The other an America who

lived in South LA and had been victim to numerous violent attacks and

robberies. Both were attractive, intelligent, sensitive women who had

just been push or taken too far too often.

 

Could I blame them?

 

 

I think that the more interesting question is this:

 

if there was a woman had just shot and wounded an attempted rapist or a

man who was kicking his dog about for no good reason out of rage,

 

who would you go to defend and heal first?

 

I bet I can tell what the answer of 99% people on this list.

 

 

I do not like the rule of fear that the career criminals brings about.

Neither on the street or in governments. It concerns me that Government,

The Law and societies intellectuals all seem to be conspiring to

disempower the common person from resolving such problems directly where

they or the Police cannot any more.

 

 

John