Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 Hello everyone, I'm a bit ashamed at the moment... got mad the other night after being asked one too many anti-vegan type questions. (Or that's what they seemed like at the time). Problem is, my (meat-eating) friends ask all kinds of different stuff about being vegan: some are fair questions which I want to answer, others of the " don't plants have feelings too? " variety. So should we answer any questions people ask us about veganism, and if not where do you draw the line? Mog PS. I've also gone and crossed over to the dark side (=fallen in love with a carnivore), so feeling like a crap vegan in general! How do you separate a cute man from his love of bacon?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 > Mog > > PS. I've also gone and crossed over to the dark side (=fallen in love > with a carnivore), so feeling like a crap vegan in general! How do > you separate a cute man from his love of bacon?? Ice hockey mask and manacles ... > I am a vegan vampire > I want to be a vegan zombie .... and I' m a Vegan Hannibal Lecter ... I just joined this list because I only eat Vegans ... or at least only the naughty ones. hmmn, late a night playing word association again. Chewing the heads of meat eaters for asking dumb questions allowed. How do you change him? How hooked on you is he? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 Don't mind sensible questions/debate on the subject... but the " carrots screaming when you pull them out of the ground " winds me up very quickly. Whether or not its people trying to deflect the subject away from the fact that they have a guilty conscious (although I reckon a lot don't have one) I don't know. There's a couple of people who are going to say the plant sentence to me once too often... I don't bother answering it, not worth it. The next most annoying question has to be " what do you eat then? " ...nobody who has asked me that has been able to answer " describe everything you eat in a sentence? " .... Anyway, enough ranting.... Dom > about being vegan: some are fair questions which I want to answer, > others of the " don't plants have feelings too? " variety. So should we > answer any questions people ask us about veganism, and if not where > do you draw the line? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 vegan-network, " Morag " <manga_mog@h...> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I'm a bit ashamed at the moment... got mad the other night after > being asked one too many anti-vegan type questions. (Or that's what > they seemed like at the time). > > Problem is, my (meat-eating) friends ask all kinds of different stuff > about being vegan: some are fair questions which I want to answer, > others of the " don't plants have feelings too? " variety. So should we > answer any questions people ask us about veganism, and if not where > do you draw the line? > No wonder you got annoyed with these silly people, you don't have to take their disrespect. Maybe you need to find some vegans in real life to hang out with instead, or at least some vegetarians if vegans are scarce! Even if plants had feelings we should still be vegan, because we have to eat something to live, and if we eat animals we are responsible for the suffering of all the plants they have eaten (many more plants than a vegan would eat directly), so if plants had feelings then veganism would still cause less suffering than meat-eating would cause. Eating plants directly causes fewer plant deaths. I know they mean it as a stupid question, but it can be answered sensibly if you choose to. > > Mog > > PS. I've also gone and crossed over to the dark side (=fallen in love > with a carnivore), so feeling like a crap vegan in general! How do > you separate a cute man from his love of bacon?? Oh no! Is he open-minded? Is he at all sympathetic to your views? If he really is not, just remember he cannot be a very nice person if he is so uncaring! I hope he has the right qualities within himself to change, but I wouldn't count on it. In my experience it isn't easy to change them, better to find someone ethically compatible to begin with. Just remember that there is not really that much shortage of nice vegan men if you really look in the right places, or at least no shortage of vegetarian men. If you want a family eventually, it is especially best to be looking now for someone who shares your values, or there will be all sorts of problems and disagreements over whether to bring up kids vegan or not. I decided not to bother with meat-eating men from quite a young age and what is more I have never regretted it, although I didn't altogether rule out vegetarians! Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 > if someone asks me why i eat plant and if the feel > pain, i reply that it hasnt been scientifically proven > that plants feel pain but it has for animals. i also > mention that we have evolved to eat more plants than > animals, and if we evolved to eat animals it isnt the > way animals are nowadays: burgers etc. Thanks for all the ideas, Lola!! How old are you again?? You seem so wise for someone so young!! Y'know my 'friends' in college started asking me all these pathetic questions in response to my t-shirt. I said if it's natural to eat meat then why do we have to cook it? One fo my friends came up with a good point, don't i cook most of my food. What would everyone else say to this?? Sas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 > > How hooked on you is he? > > John Well, it's just starting out, but could get pretty serious. He really won't turn vegan in a hurry though. Where did I put that ice hockey mask? Mog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2001 Report Share Posted June 14, 2001 > Oh no! Is he open-minded? Is he at all sympathetic to your views? Yeah, he totally supports me about being vegan, but doesn't want to be one himself. Mostly it doesn't bother me, but it's hard to understand how such a great person in other ways can't give up meat. Also I feel guilty about wanting to change him... >In my experience it isn't easy > to change them, better to find someone ethically compatible to begin > with. Good advice of the future. Think I'll stick with this guy for a while at least though - I really like him. Love in, rationality out... Mog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 > i also mention that we have evolved to eat more plants than > animals, and if we evolved to eat animals it isnt the > way animals are nowadays: burgers etc. and if someone give you that " we have all got eye teeth therefore we are meant to be carnivores line, ask them when the last time they jumed on a cow and tried to tear its throat out? or how far do they think they would get. eye teeth ... God's little nut crackers. > I really like this bloke, very alternative > looking and gorgeous!!!Anyway,he wants to start seeing me,What`s the > answer??? ah, that is just the hormones talking. go have a go itch if you must but run like hell afterwards. you are setting yourself up for a wrenching heartbreak. if you have a hole that needs filled and it is being filled by the wrong type of person you have not got any room when the right type of person comes along [ metaphorically speaking of course ]. as List Therapist, one has to ask the deep questions, what do i get out of inviting conflict into my love life? they are sure going to come. and what about al those little things that are going to happen? € the romantic little kisses after he has just chomped a meat burger ... € affectionate peck with a capuccino moustache ... € the smell of cooking bacon on a Sunday morning ... € his kitchen utensils that belong out of an abatoir ... € his frustration at being walked miles and miles because you cant find a safe restaurant to eat out of [ or sickeness witht he same restaurant because it is the only veggie one in town ] ... € sharing his excitement when you go abroad and discovering a new part of a new animal to eat ... € the smell of his garbage and the little goodies you will discover in the fridge ... € his excitement and cooking something or finding soomething at the supermarket for you - only for you to have to double check and thenf ind out it is not ... € his disappointment and frustration and discovering that it is not ... € the tiresome re-education process over all and every basic vegan matter having to explain time and time again ... € his final resentment and accusation of you wanting to change him and why should not you change for him ?... € your final realisation that you cant respect him if he does not love and respect living animals and appreciate the greater arguments for veggie/vegan diet. am i depressing you enough? of course, the same does for dames. > I became vegan at 18[overnight-as my ideals had been frustrated and I > had been living with guilt]] Didn't die --so thats another lie that > you have to change gradually!-no adverse affects . >I've since produced 4 life vegans what an amazing list, what with people lilke Andy " SuperVegan " Barnes and pioneers like you Angie! You guys are Vegan Royalty. OK Angie, you are Hereby Official Proclaimed List Mother Goddess taking over status of Hera. actually, if you are fussed about it you can get to be Zeus too if you want. [ still on my Ancient Greek mythology thing but thens some one has to keep the cultural imput of this list up to scratch ]. > Why do you think that cooking vegetables improves the nutritional > quality? I think you might have actually been a little misinformed on > this one. Cooking destroys nutrients and most especially the enzymes > essential for life. I would like to know the hard science on this. the live fooder argument often relies on the " destroying life essence or prana " kind of thing but I am not sure that washes. we dont know yet " scientifically " if this is true, intuitively I would say cooking " loosens it " but it still hangs around for a while before it finally dissipates. which is why naturopaths always say freshly cooked food only and strict Hindus would not consider food left over night [ especially beans ] " sattvic " or pure vegetarian. I reckon some cooking does release nourishment to us by breaking down cell walls etc, sure some cooking will also change or lose some nourishment to the atmosphere, especially if you throw away your waters. but then i am equally sure that the pro-vitamin C in say brown rice acts different from the vitamin C in oranges. need a spiritually aware scientist on this one. unfortunately the so called spiritually aware are often just too far spaced out to be rational and the scientific too materialistic and reductionist. I cant recommend a wholly live food diet for anyone living in a temperate or north diet. I dont see how fresh fruit can be " natural " in Winter. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2001 Report Share Posted June 15, 2001 vegan-network, jallan@f... <jallan@f...> wrote: > .. Cooking destroys nutrients and most especially the enzymes > > essential for life. > > I would like to know the hard science on this. the live fooder argument often relies on the " destroying life essence or prana " kind of thing but I am not sure that washes. we dont know yet " scientifically " if this is true, intuitively I would say cooking " loosens it " but it still hangs around for a while before it finally dissipates. I wasn't really thinking spiritually about the life essence or prana of food. I thought enzymes were necessary for sustaining life and all the chemical reactions that take place in the human body, was a simple fact. If food enzymes (needed for proper digestion) are destroyed by cooking, then the body would start using up metabolic enzymes (these are located within the glands and organs). That doesn't sound too great. > I reckon some cooking does release nourishment to us by breaking down cell walls etc, sure some cooking will also change or lose some nourishment to the atmosphere, especially if you throw away your waters. As far as i can gather, sprouting nuts, seeds etc makes more nutrients (and dormant enzymes) available. But as far as cooking food goes........ maybe we are so used to cooked food that we just don't chew raw food properly. If it isn't chewed properly, and don't break it down then how can we digest it properly? Cooking may break down cell walls releasing certain nutrients, but perhaps thorough chewing raw foods would be even better. Kind regards, anastasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2001 Report Share Posted June 19, 2001 > As a vegan bloke I can assure you to stick only to dating them. > We are more caring, genourous, helthier and have big ones. > Andy Andy, the only long thing I can see of your's are emails. can you guys edit off the emails you are replying to the list as much as possible? .... and no, I dont want a look to check. Suzy might though. glad to see that New Vegan Blokes are alive and letching. here's tofu for your builder's crack as you whistle from the scaffolding of the internet you unreformed chauvinist you. .... or was that just a Scrabble anagram for " plonker " ? john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2001 Report Share Posted June 19, 2001 Is this about the longest thread ever??? Bottom line : We have brains.. and really good ones, all the worse for the rest of the world. If we CHOOSE to cause mass destruction, slaughter on an unprecedented scale and basically eat other animals then thats our choice to make. I choose not to.. but then I dont feel Im a barbarian.. I always wondered one point : While there is a hard core sector of meat-eater who will eat anything that crawls, even their own friends.. why do meat eaters find it so unpallatable to eat their pet dog or cat or their granny??? I really find it hard to distinguish between a pet dog, a fox, a fish, a cow, a pig, a duck, a stupid human or a clever human. Eat one, and you may as well eat them all. See how my warped mind works?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2001 Report Share Posted June 19, 2001 > glad to see that New Vegan Blokes are alive and letching. here's tofu for > your builder's crack as you whistle from the scaffolding of the internet > you unreformed chauvinist you. > > ... or was that just a Scrabble anagram for " plonker " ? > > john Letching is a right us blokes have had the pleasure of since the dawn of time ... of course women NEVER EVER EVER letch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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