Live food debate

[Guest guest]

there is one aspect of the live food debate that I have never heard

argued out. it is to do with the energy consumption and energy production

values of live food.

 

each generation of new agers, new vegetarians, seems to throw up the

ideal of live food, although i have seen very very few if any that have

ever stuck it for any length of time in northern temperate climes. i dont

know any live fooders of the same amount of years as I do veggies and

vegans.

 

the sales pitch is always vaguely about the " goodness " value of live food

but I wonder about the energy value. [ dont get be wrong, i love my

wheatgrass juice, i even roll my own ]

 

our bodies work at a specific temperature, somewhere about 70 degrees.

our stomach work at a slightly hotter temperature, i believe in the 80s

but have not done my homework on this.

 

when you throw a litre of beer, ice cream or iced coca cola into it, it

literally goes into a state of shock and a sort of paralysis. [ it is

better to keep working smoothly all the time ]. before it can be treated,

passed through and out of the body, it has to be heated up to body

temperature.

 

now imagine a hot water kettle. how much energy does it require to heat

up a litre of cold water? how long and how much energy does it take to

warm up a thick pot of soup to body temperature? i am not the scientist

but relatively a hell of a lot. *and* it can be measures in KiloJoules or

calories just as our food intake is.

 

Rowan ... someone ... may be, can you answer this? how much energy does

it take to heat up a litre of water/soup?

 

now, where do we get our energy from? mainly from the carbo-hydrates in

food and a little from the fats. so how much are we using every day

*just* to heat up food in our bodies? not even for thinking or activity.

 

now where does this come from in a live food diet?

 

i can see how it acts as a great purification diet as live foods and

juices stimulate the liver and cause it to de-tox. i can see how removing

all the mucus inducing foods allow the body to get to work on the back

log of garbage we all carry aroud with us. i can see how it acts as a

kind of fast providing minerals and vitamins in high doses while removing

fats and carbs. but how does it work out as a long term diet?

 

i can also see how it work out in a tropic environment where it is

natural, although i think that you would still need some salt. but how

can it be natural in a northern temperate climatic region where it is

necessary to fly fruit around the world via jumbo jets.

 

as an addition pot boiler, can something that requires flying 5,000 miles

by refrigerated jet really be called organic as the process of production

requires and causes thousands of times more chemicals and pollution than

local grown food.

 

think global, cat local as they used to say.

 

john

[Guest guest]

vegan-network, jallan@f... <jallan@f...> wrote:

> there is one aspect of the live food debate that I have never heard

> argued out. it is to do with the energy consumption and energy

production

> values of live food.

 

> our bodies work at a specific temperature, somewhere about 70

degrees.

> our stomach work at a slightly hotter temperature, i believe in the

80s

> but have not done my homework on this.

>

> when you throw a litre of beer, ice cream or iced coca cola into

it, it

> literally goes into a state of shock and a sort of paralysis. [ it

is

> better to keep working smoothly all the time ]. before it can be

treated,

> passed through and out of the body, it has to be heated up to body

> temperature.

>

> now imagine a hot water kettle. how much energy does it require to

heat

> up a litre of cold water? how long and how much energy does it take

to

> warm up a thick pot of soup to body temperature? i am not the

scientist

> but relatively a hell of a lot. *and* it can be measures in

KiloJoules or

> calories just as our food intake is.

>

> Rowan ... someone ... may be, can you answer this? how much energy

does

> it take to heat up a litre of water/soup?

>

 

 

Ok John, here's what I am thinking.

 

You can't realistically compare the energy used to heat food by a

kettle or stove, with the energy needed to do the same work with in a

human body. The human body is designed to consume food (although

which kind of food is another issue), and is there for much more

efficient at doing this.

 

I can speak also 'unscientifically' from personal experience that

when I do consume live food I have more energy to carry out my normal

activities (my days are usually rather active, I have a little

toddler to keep me on my toes, and we cycle daily, since we don't own

a car). If I eat cooked food I feel more sluggish and tired. I think

its more of an enzyme issue, otherwize I'd be exhausted when I ate

raw food spending all my energy raising it to body temperature

(instead of feeling full of energy, like I do). If the enzymes in

cooked food are destroyed, then surely the body has to work harder

for the body to digest it. In live food the enzymes are ready and

waiting to assist the body with digestion.

 

I am not sure about this energy to heat food in your body issue, and

can only speak from my experience.

 

We are the only animal on the planet that cook food. That tells a

story in itself don't you think? Food for thought!

 

 

> as an addition pot boiler, can something that requires flying 5,000

miles

> by refrigerated jet really be called organic as the process of

production

> requires and causes thousands of times more chemicals and pollution

than

> local grown food.

 

 

I couldn't agree more, especially since the whole organic farming

thing is supposed to be about 'the whole cycle'. The amount of energy

consumed in bringing food to our plate must be astronomical!

 

kind regards

 

anastasia

[Guest guest]

>I am not sure about this energy to heat food in your body issue, and

>can only speak from my experience.

 

we need a scientist and unfortunately Vaughan in off on holiday for a

couple of months.

 

i know i/people feel better in the short term in raw/live food. it is a

better kind of fasting but i wonder about the long term. i wonder how

much the rush is just because you are giving your body a much easier time

and it is able to live off old resources.

 

i know no one that has been able to stick it. it is also true that to

much food and junk sugary food, which is what most people in the west

eat, makes you feel sluggish. no argument there. it is a typical veggie

thing to become stuffed on too many carbohydrates.

 

although there is the chemical [acids and alkalines ] and fermentational

processes to take into consideration, the heat aspect is pretty much an

absolute. mega cold foods such as a dump of sugary ice cream or sugary

iced cola are killers to the stomach which literally goes into a state of

shock when it happens. they are really bad for the stomach and kidneys.

raw foods do not really fit into this category and I remember reading

about sun cooked foods like essene breads etc.

 

i dont know the balance of what part of digestion is chemical, what is

enzymatic, what is muscular and so on.

 

>We are the only animal on the planet that cook food. That tells a

>story in itself don't you think? Food for thought!

 

yes, but we are the only animal that lives from the tropics to the artic,

from sea leavel to the moutains, build computers and flies into space. in

truth, we are no longer an animal and as such it is hard to draw

conclusions from that statement. humanity has evolved into what it is

through taking control of its environment, cooked water [ otherwise it

would have died out from diseases such as dissentry, worms etc ] and

cooked food. it is almost the factor that defines it.

 

one of the most interesting issues is the emotional values of foods. it

was an oriental point of view that dairy was for infants and eating it

encouraged infantile mentality. we like milky sweet things and getting

spaced out buy them because it takes us back to a child like state of

comfort. you can wrap in here child psychology of parents giving children

sweets nstead of love etc.

 

i have often thought that what i was witnessing when I encouraged people

to give up dairy and met resistence was deeper psychological reactions to

baby having the teat taken away from them, baby not getting an icecream,

tantrums etc.. likewise that it took a sort of emotional maturity, or

commitment to emotional maturity to dedicate one's self to veganism.

 

we live in a society that is almost whole immature, and selfish like a

spoilt child, in its relationship to the environment and other life.

 

so what is it brings you back to cooked foods?

 

do you know anyone that has gone through a few winters in the north on

live food?

 

[ i would miss my porridge and soya milk ].

 

John

[Guest guest]

vegan-network, jallan@f... <jallan@f...> wrote:

 

 

> >We are the only animal on the planet that cook food. That tells a

> >story in itself don't you think? Food for thought!

>

> yes, but we are the only animal that lives from the tropics to the

artic,

> from sea leavel to the moutains, build computers and flies into

space. in

> truth, we are no longer an animal and as such it is hard to draw

> conclusions from that statement. humanity has evolved into what it

is

> through taking control of its environment, cooked water [ otherwise

it

> would have died out from diseases such as dissentry, worms etc ]

and

> cooked food. it is almost the factor that defines it.

 

Maybe this is our problem. Mankind has been trying to control of our

environment for so long instead of living in harmony with. Our

exploitation of the environment has made us vulnerable to disease.

 

I understand how you see that we as humans are no longer animals. Our

exploited and unnatural world from the moment that most of us are

conceived ensures that we lose touch with many of our natural

instincts. By trying to conquer our planet we have brought war, man-

made environmental disasters, disease, hatred, exploitation of

anything accessable etc etc etc..... We are still (and alwaays will

be) subject to the laws of nature though (which is why the actions of

humankind have brought about so much suffering). I am not saying that

we should all go and live like apes in the wild, I just think that

restoring balance and harmony to our lives is the key to all of our

problems in the world (which are all caused by mankind in the first

place).

 

 

> one of the most interesting issues is the emotional values of

foods. it

> was an oriental point of view that dairy was for infants and eating

it

> encouraged infantile mentality. we like milky sweet things and

getting

> spaced out buy them because it takes us back to a child like state

of

> comfort. you can wrap in here child psychology of parents giving

children

> sweets nstead of love etc.

>

> i have often thought that what i was witnessing when I encouraged

people

> to give up dairy and met resistence was deeper psychological

reactions to

> baby having the teat taken away from them, baby not getting an

icecream,

> tantrums etc..

 

Many people turn to food (or drugs,alcohol etc) as their first

comfort when they are down and depressed. It is very emotional for a

lot of people. I can't agree more! It's also a very social thing too.

Many people won't change their diet for the better because they

couldn't cope socially.

 

> likewise that it took a sort of emotional maturity, or

> commitment to emotional maturity to dedicate one's self to

veganism.

 

Yes, people won't change until they are emotionally ready to. That's

why I try to be understanding of the lack of compassion that most

people show towards animals or animal products that they consume, and

remain open to the fact that one day they might see the light.

>

 

> so what is it brings you back to cooked foods?

 

Emotional attatchment!!!!! Saying that though I never eat wheat and

processed sugar, and I don't include foods such as chocolate, tea and

coffee etc. It's decent as healthy diets go, but there's always room

for improvement. I really enjoy my diet and never feel the need for

those foods that I have just mentioned. I eat other cooked food such

as rice, potatoes and oats because I am not emotionally ready not to

eat them.

 

 

What kind of food do you eat?

 

 

> do you know anyone that has gone through a few winters in the north

on

> live food?

>

> [ i would miss my porridge and soya milk ].

 

I met someone a few years ago who had (and his wife) been living 100%

raw for a few years in the east midlands. I have only heard of others

that have. I briefly know someone that went last winter here

completely raw, and my friend knows people that have been 100% raw

vegan for years, so I wouldn't say that it is impossible. I don't

think I could do though(at this point in my life anyway). I agree

with you that it would be easier in other parts of the world.

 

kind regards

 

Anastasia