Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 salutations bani... and welcome things have been kinda quiet around here lately.... *listens to the crickets* but..it'll probably pick up cheers fraggle " mezzanine girl " <coldeventhough wrote: > >hi vegan network, i'm a 22 year old vegan girl and recent philosophy >graduate. i was actually a member of the network at it's beginning last year >but i was entering my final year at university and was too distracted to >write or read or anything, so i d, and now having graduated >decided to join again. >so, this was just to introduce myself and say hello, so: my name is >bani.hello. > > > > > >_______________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 I passed this around the office - it woke people even more! > Chomsky note... > >Just got your message. Quick reaction. > >Today's attacks were major atrocities. In terms of number of victims >they do not reach the level of many others, for example, Clinton's >bombing of the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half its >pharmaceutical supplies and probably killing tens of thousands of people >(no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and no one >cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily come >to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in doubt. The >primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors, secretaries, >firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to >Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to >lead to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for >undermining civil liberties and internal freedom. > >The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of ideas about " missile >defense. " As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by >strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US, >including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to >launch a missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. >There are innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But >today's events will, nonetheless, be used to increase the pressure to >develop these systems and put them into place. " Defense " is a thin cover >for plans for militarization of space, and with good PR, even the >flimsiest arguments will carry some weight among a frightened public. >In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope >to use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the >likely US actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks >like this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than >they appeared to be before the latest atrocities. > >Noam Chomsky > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2001 Report Share Posted September 13, 2001 too bad, we are all terrified on this side of the pond..(understandably) someone just knocked the chip off america's shoulder, when was the last time that happened? reprisals are feared any moment now both against us, and against whomever just killed all those people *sigh* i'm afraid most americans would give away most of our freedoms right now, just to feel safe and secure fraggle alwbarnes wrote: >I passed this around the office - it woke people even more! > >> Chomsky note... >> >>Just got your message. Quick reaction. >> >>Today's attacks were major atrocities. In terms of number of victims >>they do not reach the level of many others, for example, Clinton's >>bombing of the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half its >>pharmaceutical supplies and probably killing tens of thousands of people >>(no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and no one >>cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily come >>to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in doubt. The >>primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors, secretaries, >>firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to >>Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to >>lead to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for >>undermining civil liberties and internal freedom. >> >>The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of ideas about " missile >>defense. " As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by >>strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US, >>including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to >>launch a missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. >>There are innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But >>today's events will, nonetheless, be used to increase the pressure to >>develop these systems and put them into place. " Defense " is a thin cover >>for plans for militarization of space, and with good PR, even the >>flimsiest arguments will carry some weight among a frightened public. >>In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope >>to use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the >>likely US actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks >>like this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than >>they appeared to be before the latest atrocities. >> >>Noam Chomsky >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2001 Report Share Posted September 18, 2001 it might be because, even tho such products claim to be " animal free " or " cruelty free " , they are owned by major corporations that use animal ingrediants in similar products, etc. just a guess fraggle >and such products, there seems to be an exclusion of 'mainstream' animal >friendly products (admittedly of which there may be few, but still, or >perhaps therefore then...). i use herbal essences shampoos and simple >moistursisers etc and they state clearly on their packaging that no animal >derived ingredients are included. it's difficult to always have to seek out >vegan friendly products from specific sources, i would never be anything but >vegan, but sometimes i feel so tired and alone and vegan (!!)(forgive the >melodrama), i just want to be able to identify cruelty free items in my high >street/supermarket, where possible. >(even though i understand that the animal shopper bias might be a result of >wanting to support vegan companies etc etc) > >also, i guiltily add that i am not completely certain of this exclusion, i >did look through the whole thing, and am fairly sure, but not entirely, so. > >okay, so here i end. (think i might become a more vocal member of this >community!) > >bani >'only in the absurd can you be saved' > > > > >_______________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2001 Report Share Posted September 18, 2001 " i would never be anything but vegan, but sometimes i feel so tired and alone and vegan " Your words really hit home with me... I do often feel exactly this way and just wish that the world was vegan it woould make my life so very much easier! - EBbrewpunx vegan-network Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:14 PM RE: [100% veg*n ] (unknown) it might be because, even tho such products claim to be " animal free " or " cruelty free " , they are owned by major corporations that use animal ingrediants in similar products, etc. just a guess fraggle >and such products, there seems to be an exclusion of 'mainstream' animal >friendly products (admittedly of which there may be few, but still, or >perhaps therefore then...). i use herbal essences shampoos and simple >moistursisers etc and they state clearly on their packaging that no animal >derived ingredients are included. it's difficult to always have to seek out >vegan friendly products from specific sources, i would never be anything but >vegan, but sometimes i feel so tired and alone and vegan (!!)(forgive the >melodrama), i just want to be able to identify cruelty free items in my high >street/supermarket, where possible. >(even though i understand that the animal shopper bias might be a result of >wanting to support vegan companies etc etc) > >also, i guiltily add that i am not completely certain of this exclusion, i >did look through the whole thing, and am fairly sure, but not entirely, so. > >okay, so here i end. (think i might become a more vocal member of this >community!) > >bani >'only in the absurd can you be saved' > > > > >_______________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2001 Report Share Posted September 18, 2001 Bani, I have said it before and I am always happy to repeat it. The Co-op have appropriate labels on vegan foodstuffs to clearly indicate so. Non foood produce are labelled with 'no animal ingredients' when appropriate. Stevie. --- mezzanine girl <coldeventhough wrote: > > dear everyone, > > this is the first time i've written since introducing myself a while > back, > it's been an odd but interesting, eventful summer. so. > anyWAY, went to the vegan fest on sunday, it was so good to be able to > try > everything without having to ask or check ingredients, and that > constantly > amused and delighted me!! > (easily amused and delighted!) > especially loved the sushi and the mayonnaise on crackers. > also, stuffed myself silly with cake. > absolutely silly. > > i took a non vegan friend (in fact non veggie!) and she found it > interesting > but none of my close friends really even sympathise with my views. i try > to > not think about it, but sometimes it bothers me. > > anyway this is turning into a ramble, so i'll close with a point i > wonder > about-- in the animal shopper (of which i bought my first copy though > having > been a vegan for 4 years and a vegetarian always) in items such as > cosmetics > and such products, there seems to be an exclusion of 'mainstream' animal > > friendly products (admittedly of which there may be few, but still, or > perhaps therefore then...). i use herbal essences shampoos and simple > moistursisers etc and they state clearly on their packaging that no > animal > derived ingredients are included. it's difficult to always have to seek > out > vegan friendly products from specific sources, i would never be anything > but > vegan, but sometimes i feel so tired and alone and vegan (!!)(forgive > the > melodrama), i just want to be able to identify cruelty free items in my > high > street/supermarket, where possible. > (even though i understand that the animal shopper bias might be a result > of > wanting to support vegan companies etc etc) > > also, i guiltily add that i am not completely certain of this exclusion, > i > did look through the whole thing, and am fairly sure, but not entirely, > so. > > okay, so here i end. (think i might become a more vocal member of this > community!) > > bani > 'only in the absurd can you be saved' ===== Free antivirus software at www.grisoft.com Free firewall software at www.zonealarm.com Check against email hoaxes at www.stiller.com/hoaxes.htm or www.scambusters.org/legends.html Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2001 Report Share Posted September 19, 2001 sorry...i didn't mean to repeat anybody...doh!! __________ Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2001 Report Share Posted September 21, 2001 Hi All I've been d to this list for about a month and so thought it was about time I introduced myself :-). It's great to be on a list with like minded folk. Take care Jadej --- Jayne Blissett <jayneblissett wrote: > " i would never be anything but > vegan, but sometimes i feel so tired and alone and > vegan " > > Your words really hit home with me... I do often > feel exactly this way and just wish that the world > was vegan it woould make my life so very much > easier! > - > EBbrewpunx > vegan-network > Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:14 PM > RE: [100% veg*n ] (unknown) > > > it might be because, even tho such products claim > to be " animal free " or " cruelty free " , they are > owned by major corporations that use animal > ingrediants in similar products, etc. > just a guess > > fraggle > > >and such products, there seems to be an exclusion > of 'mainstream' animal > >friendly products (admittedly of which there may > be few, but still, or > >perhaps therefore then...). i use herbal essences > shampoos and simple > >moistursisers etc and they state clearly on their > packaging that no animal > >derived ingredients are included. it's difficult > to always have to seek out > >vegan friendly products from specific sources, i > would never be anything but > >vegan, but sometimes i feel so tired and alone > and vegan (!!)(forgive the > >melodrama), i just want to be able to identify > cruelty free items in my high > >street/supermarket, where possible. > >(even though i understand that the animal shopper > bias might be a result of > >wanting to support vegan companies etc etc) > > > >also, i guiltily add that i am not completely > certain of this exclusion, i > >did look through the whole thing, and am fairly > sure, but not entirely, so. > > > >okay, so here i end. (think i might become a more > vocal member of this > >community!) > > > >bani > >'only in the absurd can you be saved' > > > > > > > > > > >_______________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], > send an email to: > vegan-network-digest > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 Thank you for voicing that which I so often have felt. You are not alone in these emotions and thoughts. I agree with Dee, however: it might be a good idea for you to seek a vegan counsellor just to express yourself if you have no sort of vegan support system other than this list (though, I will audaciously speak for everyone and state that this is one of the purposes that we are happy to serve). I would be happy to provide a sympathetic sounding board to you, if you like. Just write to me! Be good to yourself. You are doing a great thing. xxk@xx anonvegan [zxcvbnmmlkjhgfds] 25 March 2002 21:40 vegan-network [100% veg*n ] (unknown) I am writing this because I don't know what else to do, and perhaps because I need help. I am vegan, I chose this because when I was young someone showed me what happened in factory farms, and I was curious, as well as horrified, as to what happens in them. So I found out more, and decided to become vegetarian, and then became vegan. This was not a problem at first, although I got a bit of stick from other people. But problems started: I am an only child, I have always had problems socialising or integrating into groups. I overcame this in my teenage years, but when I decided to become vegan I gradually withdrew again. This was not directly because of being vegan, on the contrary, some people were interested in me being vegan, and this involved me with other people. Of course there were critics, but that is bound to happen. But I now feel completely apart from people in my everyday life. Perhaps the problem is that the more I found out what isn't publicised to the public eye, the more I chose to find out more. Not just about the animals, but what happens in third world countries, in prisons, and the large scale planetary effects of global businesses and corporations. I've got a vivid imagination, which although when I was younger I would use for creative purposes, has been scarred and irreversibly replaced by acknowledgement of what is happening behind closed doors and in other places that I do not see. I have been involved with people who smoke pot, like many teenagers do, and have seen the underground culture of the place I live in, I've listened to alternative music, and read literarature from alternative sources, if this is the way of putting it. But I have always preferred to be part of mainstream society, because that is how I grew up, I had a mostly comfortable and secure upbringing with a lot of love, some of the people I have met in the margins of society have not had this, and their rebellion towards the norm is perhaps understandable. But without the structure of society I feel insecure, maybe because of my upbringing, and in any case have not the charisma or strength of character to be against what is expected of eg the government; the old woman over the road who has worked all her life; the salesperson in the newsagent, the people who work in public services; to be against whatever a `citizen' is supposed to be. I don't feel its right, even though the organisations in charge of all this are all `in league' with those that torture and maim animals; that use third world country resources because of the cheaper cost of living over there; and that respect those multinational corporations that usurp all areas of the global economy and ecology for profit. So I have tried to be part of it all. I've had jobs in various places, continued conventional education, even watched TV even though I dislike it to try and understand what goes on in people's heads and what the `average person' indulges in. This has meant that while doing so I inevitably have to ignore part of myself, that part that knows what really happens. But I am finding it hard to keep on doing this. I don't know if this happens to anyone else, but sometimes, especially when trying to socialise with `respectable' people with careers or jobs, students, but also those not part of society that I mentioned above, I get a horrible form of paranoia: something that is possibly `evil' inside me is screaming: " THEY ATE PIG FOR BREAKFAST " , or " THEIR BODY IS COMPOSED OF THE REMNANTS OF INNOCENT ANIMALS THAT HAVE BEEN LOCKED UP AND TORTURED " , although it doesn't express itself as words within my head, more as a feeling or emotion, which is one of the aspects of it which worries me. And things turn upside down. Other times the paranoia expresses itself as a fear: of all these buildings that we all live in, the technology; the institutions; the conveniences; which are alright in themselves, but their very existence is due to the advent of capitalism, money, and the co- ordination of scores of people who have thrived, and survived, almost unanimously, by eating meat and dairy (sometimes I shrug this off as a silly thought, but it is overwhelming and defeating). And money: even though they say it is `the root of all evil', and I am usually suspicious of sayings like that, in this case I would agree. Or rather the inverse as well: evil is also the root of money: in this world of mainly meat and dairy eaters, the source of almost any coin or note, or whatever it is paid towards, can be traced down to, or will cause, the killing, abuse, or maiming, of an animal. You buy anything from the average shop, chances are a percentage of it will be spent on meat or dairy by those who will profit from it. You earn money in the average job (I'm not talking about specialised careers, but the sort of job that is available to anyone), you will be a pawn in a process that will eventually or inevitably involve some form of cruelty or injustice. Perhaps this paragraph is irrelevant to what I am trying to say, I have no proof and can't make such assumptions. They are assumptions that are based on what I have experienced as of people I am aware of and on what society is as I know it (eg: I used to have some (meat eating) friends with whom I would go to the local `greasy spoon' in the morning and would observe the countless people come and go who would order what is known as an " early special " : fried egg on toast with sausage, bacon and baked beans. These would be workers from all kinds of different fields,, coming for breakfast, some would go every day because of the cheapness of the price. Mcdonalds almost pales in comparison to the number of small businesses that carry out the same ruthless exploitations only on smaller, more numerous levels.) The apitomy of this fear/paranoia and what it boils down to, can be summed up in what I went through today not long before writing this, and which I have been through before, though not as intensely. I'd had a particularly bad experience I can't and don't want to explain but which could be summed up by everything I've just written, and was scowling horribly and walking at a fast pace through the crowds at of my local high street. People were staring at me, some would try to get out of my way, some would intentionally get in my way. I felt anger, turmoil and despair, there was nothing I could do but hurry on, and couldn't wait to get home. Where I could hide. All the time I was thinking something along the lines of " blood on your hands, blood on your hands " (like the expression). But I couldn't work out if it was me, or everyone else. I was actually on the verge of feeling guilty for everything everyone else had done. I believe there's no use thinking how society might have been if we had evolved as herbivores, whether we'd still have invented everything we have done, whether we'd still have culture, technology, society, inequality, oppression, cruelty and all the other good and bad things that we know, because we have to face reality. I also know there is precious little I can do as an individual to change how everything is on a large scale. But my shyness and being used to solitude and alienation prevents me from integrating into anything I choose to integrate into, like meeting other vegans, socialising, alternative cultures, joining pressure groups, what have you; and my internal " spirit " , or " soul " prevents me from accepting myself as a conformist or becoming a member of society, a status which I would normally have accepted if I hadn't prostrated myself to the grim facts of what we, as a species, are doing. I don't want to be a bad example of veganism to other people in my community, but I can't help it. People I frequent know that I am vegan. But my emotional and mental state is far from balanced, leading me to do things I regret, which leads " normal " people to look down upon me, and because of the complicated nature of my turmoil, I cannot explain my divergences to them. The words " sinking ship " are increasingly present in my mind, and I'm sick of destroying my brain cells in order to be able to sleep at night. This is a shout, I'm doing it in anynomity for personal reasons. Sorry for subjecting you to it if you have read it, if anyone replies I may not answer for anonymity's sake. This possibly represents many vegans who are too scared to speak out, I don't know. If so, I hope they find the courage to speak out. What should I do? How should I cope? Are there vegans who feel an integrated part of society, what do they think? I felt I had to write this, because it is all getting too much, and perhaps I felt I had to express something. Anon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 --- anonvegan <zxcvbnmmlkjhgfds wrote: > I am writing this because I don't know what else to > do, and perhaps > because I need help. > [snip] >What should I do? How should I cope? Are there vegans who feel an >integrated part of society, what do they think? >I felt I had to write this, because it is all getting too much, and >perhaps I felt I had to express something. It seems you are using your beliefs to torture yourself. And that is about you rather than about the beliefs. ===== Teri Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 well..since you are across the pond, dunno how easy it is to find this stuff, but ecco-bella, different daisy and there is some compnay called bwc which are all vegan and cruelty free good luck cheers fraggle " mezzanine girl " <coldeventhough wrote: > > >forgive the somewhat trivial concerns of this email but i was wondering if >anyone could confirm (offhand!) whether the botanics range at boots was >vegan or not?? also does anyone know of a makeup range that is vegan, is >aveda in most of its products? > >_______________ >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 >...and there is some compnay called bwc which are all vegan and cruelty >free... If you mean Beauty Without Cruelty then they are no longer entirely vegan. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2002 Report Share Posted August 12, 2002 Both Boots and the Body Shop use animal derived ingredients so you would need to check each product individually. As to some suitable products... A few products in the BarryM range are vegan, and available in Superdrug stores. http://www.barrym.co.uk/ Stargazer products are entirely vegan, usually only available in alternative stores (goth etc.), through similar online stores, or via their own web site (though their ordering system is rather antiquated). http://www.stargazer-products.com/ I have also been lead to believe that the 'n Rage products are also entirely vegan, no idea where you can get it in the UK though. Probably also in alternative stores as that is the market they go for. http://www.nrage.com/ Finally if you have access to an Applewoods store I believe all their own brand cosmetics are vegan (or at least they used to be). http://www.applewoods.com/ ....you may also find it useful to check online stores such as http://www.veganstore.co.uk/ , even if you don't plan on buying from them, the products they list will give you a guide to what is suitable. Otherwise you would be best advised to buy the Vegan Shopper book from the vegan society. And that is the limit of my knowledge, for reasons which may have been implicitly obvious. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 i've seen vegan white chocolate onnce er twice..its pretty rare i guess here's a recipe http://www.vegsource.com/articles/deb_white_chocolate.htm cheers fraggle " mezzanine girl " <coldeventhough wrote: >does anyone know if a vegan equivalent of white chocolate exists or could be >made??? how would that work? > >_______________ >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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