Environmental concern/veganism [100% veg*n ] Digest Number 390

[Guest guest]

vegan-network, EBbrewpunx@c... wrote:

> i can speak for how the rest of the world eats, or try and

influence them...

 

I hope you meant 'can't' :-)

 

> but..i do know , that when " american " or western style agriculture

is exported to some " third world " nation, all sorts of hazards and

consequences arise...increased erosion, dietary diseases crop

up..etc..

 

Yup. So what I was saying in my article, and my last post, was more

about the need for sustainable and locality appropriate agricultures

(for 'us' as well as the two thirds world), rather than the arguably

false dichotomy/conflict between veganism & omnivorism...

 

> as for the " eating local " , it all depends...there are still vegan

alternatives worldwide that don't have to be soy...

 

But are these always appropriate in say, prairie, steppe, desert or

arctic biomes? (where indigenous fauna can convert inedible (for

humans) plant biomass into an edible protien form). More to the

point, wouldn't the pushing of a vegan ideaology onto such cultures

be just as inappropriate as the 'Americanisation' of traditional

agricultures that you rightly critisise above?

 

 

> and, i didn't become veganish JUST because animal production

destroys the environment

 

Me neither. But I'm increasingly questioning the 'vegan dogma' that

puts the 'purity' of 'animal free' products as primary whilst

sometimes ignoring environmental or human rights issues, or the fact

that it is possible to have respectful relations with other animal

species whilst still accepting them as a form of sustenance... i've

been reading Ben Law's newly published book 'The Woodland Way', in

which he talks about the fact that despite being mainly vegetarian he

uses rabbits, squirrel and deer which are otherwise pests in his

woodland as a food source. I've heard it argued that having

eliminated the natural predators of such species some population

control/culling is necessary in order to manage and protect such

ecologies from inordinate damage, and indeed prevent the far

worse 'natural culling' that occurs through starvation and disease

when populations reach artificially unsustainable levels. Perhaps

then we should accept that those who wish to hunt their own fresh

meat in such circumstances are in fact occupying the ecological

niches previously filled by wolves and other predators that acted as

population control agents?

 

somebody once said " we are a part of the world, not apart from it " ,

which to me implies that we can't avoid some sort of interaction with

other species with which we share this planet, and that our existance

is but a part of a complex web of cycles of which birth, life, death,

and rebirth are intrinsic parts. this is something we seem as a

species to have lost touch with and need to rediscover if we are to

get ourselves into balance once again. What is the part we are meant

to play in such cycles?

 

Answers on a postcard please!

 

Cheers,

 

Graham

www.landandliberty.co.uk

[Guest guest]

hi graham...

yes..i meant " can't "

sometimes me brain moves much faster than my fingers..well..not that my brain

moves that fast anyways...

i have one question fer ya...you mentioned some book by ben law(sorry, never

heards of the fella...)...were you labeled rabbits and squirrels

" pests " ...please explain....

what is a pest...??

i understand about overpopulation and such...with mankind killing off the top

predators and all...so, rabbits, and other " vermin " have population explosions,

la de da...

but..i believe we make horrible " population control " advocates...we suck as

predators, at least, in the selective case...do we take out the sick? the slow?

we have traps, guns, and such which make up for any shortcomings in our short

nails and odd gait..

we don't (using a general " we " here) usually kill the sick ones, nah, we want

the healthy juicy looking bunny..or the deer with all the antlers, or

whatever...

and, if ya want to use " overpopulation " as an argument, well, i might as well go

next door and wack off my neighbors..there are a ton of poor folks living in a

little house next door to me....long pig anyone?

(i hope to bacchus you can see the tongue in my cheek)

not advocating lockstepping the whole world into veganism...but, we certainly

can start at home..informing people

correct?

as for aleuts and other folks, yer right, they have diets based on meat and seal

blubber, and such..

and what is the kidney failure rate among natives in alaska? didn't they use to

stick you on an iceflow when you were about 45 and shove you off to sea? (ok,

so, that was a story i read in like 5tyh grade...sue me...)

just bouncing back to ya

> : )

fraggle

 

grahamburnett wrote:

 

>vegan-network, EBbrewpunx@c... wrote:

>> i can speak for how the rest of the world eats, or try and

>influence them...

>

>I hope you meant 'can't' :-)

>

>> but..i do know , that when " american " or western style agriculture

>is exported to some " third world " nation, all sorts of hazards and

>consequences arise...increased erosion, dietary diseases crop

>up..etc..

>

>Yup. So what I was saying in my article, and my last post, was more

>about the need for sustainable and locality appropriate agricultures

>(for 'us' as well as the two thirds world), rather than the arguably

>false dichotomy/conflict between veganism & omnivorism...

>

>> as for the " eating local " , it all depends...there are still vegan

>alternatives worldwide that don't have to be soy...

>

>But are these always appropriate in say, prairie, steppe, desert or

>arctic biomes? (where indigenous fauna can convert inedible (for

>humans) plant biomass into an edible protien form). More to the

>point, wouldn't the pushing of a vegan ideaology onto such cultures

>be just as inappropriate as the 'Americanisation' of traditional

>agricultures that you rightly critisise above?

>

>

>> and, i didn't become veganish JUST because animal production

>destroys the environment

>

>Me neither. But I'm increasingly questioning the 'vegan dogma' that

>puts the 'purity' of 'animal free' products as primary whilst

>sometimes ignoring environmental or human rights issues, or the fact

>that it is possible to have respectful relations with other animal

>species whilst still accepting them as a form of sustenance... i've

>been reading Ben Law's newly published book 'The Woodland Way', in

>which he talks about the fact that despite being mainly vegetarian he

>uses rabbits, squirrel and deer which are otherwise pests in his

>woodland as a food source. I've heard it argued that having

>eliminated the natural predators of such species some population

>control/culling is necessary in order to manage and protect such

>ecologies from inordinate damage, and indeed prevent the far

>worse 'natural culling' that occurs through starvation and disease

>when populations reach artificially unsustainable levels. Perhaps

>then we should accept that those who wish to hunt their own fresh

>meat in such circumstances are in fact occupying the ecological

>niches previously filled by wolves and other predators that acted as

>population control agents?

>

>somebody once said " we are a part of the world, not apart from it " ,

>which to me implies that we can't avoid some sort of interaction with

>other species with which we share this planet, and that our existance

>is but a part of a complex web of cycles of which birth, life, death,

>and rebirth are intrinsic parts. this is something we seem as a

>species to have lost touch with and need to rediscover if we are to

>get ourselves into balance once again. What is the part we are meant

>to play in such cycles?

>

>Answers on a postcard please!

>

>Cheers,

>

>Graham

>www.landandliberty.co.uk

>

>

>

>

>To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to:

vegan-network-digest

>

>

[Guest guest]

O, my...what sort of neighbour do you call yourself? Hmm...

 

k@(oral muscle also firmly implanted in oral cheek pocket)

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

15 October 2001 15:08

vegan-network

RE: Environmental concern/veganism Re: [100% veg*n ] Digest

Number 390

 

, i might as well go next door and wack off my neighbors..

>

>

>

>

>To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to:

vegan-network-digest

>

>