Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 Am i the only one who is not bothered if my vegan burger is cooked on the same barbeque as a beef bureger??? the way i see it you arent eating meat, you are still protesting agianst eating it and eveyone can see u arnt eating meat, so y worry about what it was cooked next too, u dont pay money for it and so arnt supporting the meat industry through it. im not quite sure about wool either, ive not got a problem with sheep being sheared becos if they are not mnay die from heat exahaustion in the summer months. hmmmmm??? lov loz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 > To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 loz wrote... >Am i the only one who is not bothered if my vegan burger is cooked on >the same barbeque as a beef bureger??? > >the way i see it you arent eating meat, you are still protesting >agianst eating it and eveyone can see u arnt eating meat, so y worry >about what it was cooked next too, u dont pay money for it and so >arnt supporting the meat industry through it. >im not quite sure about wool either, ive not got a problem with sheep >being sheared becos if they are not mnay die from heat exahaustion in >the summer months. hmmmmm??? I guess all individuals decide where to draw the line. I can see your point, and if that is the case then I'm sure you might not be bothered about eating a 'road kill' or an animal that has died from natural causes?? I don't have a problem with anyone who does that, because then, as you say, you didn't buy the meat so you are not supporting the meat industry. But then, how could we call ourselves vegan? I know some say 'vegan' is just a label. So what! That's the word that best describes what we are-someone who doesn't eat animal products! There's nothing wrong with that. Another reason some avoid animal products may be for health reasons. But for many of us, other reasons we would choose not eat our vegan burger cooked in meat juices is to make it obvious to our meat eating friends that we are serious about what we beleive in. I'm not suggesting for a minute that you are not serious. I do understand what you are saying. But if it were me who ate the vegan burger off the non-vegan barbeque, I wouldn't be surprised if a non-vegan friend being genuinely confused at me eating a small amount of animal fat, served me a up a meat dish or chips cooked in lard for dinner. They might say to me 'Well, what's the difference?' And I would have to admit that there isn't any. Again, I didn't buy it and what difference does it make if it is a small amount or a large amount, you are still eating it. There is also the fact that some of us are a bit fussier than others, that's myself included. Personally, the thought of anything dead contaminating my food makes me want to throw up! But each to their own! The subject about wool is debatable. I have already spoken about my own first hand experience of sheep shearing last year. I don't know if you were on this list then, but to cut a long story short I wouldn't say it was a completely cruelty free process. Also, apparently a lot of wool is picked off of the slaughter house floor! Wool is a by-product of the meat industry and as far as I'm concerned you may as well buy meat. You are still supporting the industry. In saying that, I would not have a problem with buying second hand goods, goods that are made from picking wool off of fences or knowing how and where the wool was produced, etc. Yes, unfortunately sheep have been bred in such a way that they do have excess fleeces that weigh them down in summer and they do get exhausted. But I think it is better if they are carefully clipped rather than some irresponsible shearer cutting the sheep to bits in their hurry to get as many sheep sheared as possible or to quickly get home to their lamb stew dinner! I've seen some huge scars on the sheep due to this. Some have been cut right down to the bone! I am not exaggerating either. A lot of farmers are more concerned with getting the perfect whole fleece off of the sheep rather than worrying about the poor animals welfare. They'll only really get the money for the perfect fleece, but so many sheep are affected by mange that the fleece just falls off of them in bits. ['free range' ones anyway,] There is not much money to be made in it, so I wonder why they bother, anyway! I have to add that early season shearing in wet, windy and cold conditions can result in the sheep suffering severe chilling, mastitis or even death. I'm sorry if this sounds like a competition about 'Who's the better vegan'. Really, it is not meant to come across that way. I hate arguments and usually run away at the first sign of one! lol. Merely stating an opinion. I don't think it is possible for anyone to be the 'perfect' vegan. I'm certainly not. We all have our own limits and I'm sure that we take what we beleive to be right as far as we think is possible and practical for us, the individual. Cheers, Dee _______________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 > __ > > ____________________ > __ > > > Am i the only one who is not bothered if my > >vegan burger is cooked on > > the same barbeque as a beef bureger??? > > > NO WAY! > > i would not. i would not even consider the burger vegan. Me neither- BUT I can see the point if one's primary reason for boycotting animal products is avoiding contributing to the economic exploitation of animals. An ex work colleage of mine described himself for a while as a 'fregan', that is somebody who would not contribute to the economic exploitation of non-human animals (ie,was vegan most of the time), but had no problem with eating animal products that would otherwise be disposed of as 'waste', eg, would eat ham sandwiches at the end of a party that would otherwise be chucked in the bin, eat meat fom supermarket skips that would otherwise go for landfill, drink out of date milk that would otherwise be chucked, etc. In a way, is that not a 'better' approach than seeing such products end up as landfill? (not saying I agree, just being a bit of a devils advocate to see what others think) Simmilarly, couldn't a scenario our friend above describes actually make more sense than setting up 2 seperate BBQ's which would use twice the resources & fossil fuel? BTW, I think a better answer would be to ensure that ALL the food at such a gathering is suitable for vegans, by and large everybody can eat vegan food, so it's the lowest common denominator. An omnivorous friend of mine always cooks vegan for gatherings because he knows EVERYONE can eat it and there's no fuss about laying on seperate food for vegans/veggies/omni's etc- less hassle all round. Cheers Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 > In a way, is that not a 'better' approach than seeing such products > end up as landfill? (not saying I agree, just being a bit of a devils > advocate to see what others think) Maybe not a better approach, but different. And not mine. :] I'm incredibly disgusted at the thought of eating animals or their secretions, so it wouldn't work for me. In a way it still condones the eating of animals/etc., and that's not something I would feel comfortable doing. Maybe it just comes down to the reasons one is veg*n -- I pretty much fall under every single one (ethics, health, eco, etc.), while some are veg for the reasons your friend is -- to reduce the amount of money going to animal-exploiters. I think *any* lessening of the use of animal products is fantastic, but... Fregan? It's not for me. - Cheryl ..................................... http://www.pickleflick.com/bean http://www.livejournal.com/~ratties AIM: triceratops bean " I'm melting! Melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Unless there are strict religious or health reasons or you are actually getting meat in your vegan burger why would this make a difference? If it is a commercial establishment you are still patronizing them despite their support of meat. If it is a private party are you goint to alienate your friends and family for their choices which you have no control over? With respect to the fregan concept it seems at the surface that eating these supposed " animal waste products " takes your food dollars away from support of non-offending products and more importantly, creates less waste which will discourage the reduction of supply of the animal products. The latter part depends probably on where and how you get these left overs. ie: if you go to a party and eat the last ham sandwich because it will be thrown away, how does the host know to buy less next time?...you are supporting the slaughter. If you take expired milk or meat out of a dumpster after it is discarded, I don't think the market will notice or care. It is certainly a way to avoid waste and is less destructive than buying animal products out right. vegan-network, " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> wrote: > > > __ > > > > ____________________ > > __ > > > > > Am i the only one who is not bothered if my > > >vegan burger is cooked on > > > the same barbeque as a beef bureger??? > > > > > > NO WAY! > > > > i would not. i would not even consider the burger vegan. > > Me neither- BUT I can see the point if one's primary reason for > boycotting animal products is avoiding contributing to the economic > exploitation of animals. > > An ex work colleage of mine described himself for a while as > a 'fregan', that is somebody who would not contribute to the economic > exploitation of non-human animals (ie,was vegan most of the time), > but had no problem with eating animal products that would otherwise > be disposed of as 'waste', eg, would eat ham sandwiches at the end of > a party that would otherwise be chucked in the bin, eat meat fom > supermarket skips that would otherwise go for landfill, drink out of > date milk that would otherwise be chucked, etc. > > In a way, is that not a 'better' approach than seeing such products > end up as landfill? (not saying I agree, just being a bit of a devils > advocate to see what others think) > > Simmilarly, couldn't a scenario our friend above describes actually > make more sense than setting up 2 seperate BBQ's which would use > twice the resources & fossil fuel? > > BTW, I think a better answer would be to ensure that ALL the food at > such a gathering is suitable for vegans, by and large everybody can > eat vegan food, so it's the lowest common denominator. An omnivorous > friend of mine always cooks vegan for gatherings because he knows > EVERYONE can eat it and there's no fuss about laying on seperate food > for vegans/veggies/omni's etc- less hassle all round. > > Cheers Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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