[100% veg*n ] Breathe, relax, just breathe...

[Guest guest]

hey honor

i think its great that you havent yet been desensitised to peoples responses.

usually whenever i get into veganism, no matter what stance the person

takes on animal rights i tend to fume. i jsut cant understand how people

can know how animals are treated and still dismiss it. it makes me not

want to ever speak to these people again. one of my closest friends is

non-veggie. ive been trying to convert him forever and he jsut doesnt

care about the suffering of the animals he eats. its really frustrating

that he could be so selfish. sometime i go through phases where i refuse

to talk to anyone who eats meat, but lately im sad to say i have become

desensitised. i think its mostly because i have no choice other than

to live in a flat with 5 meat eaters. at least one person in my flat

has tuna for one meal of the day and the smell makes me want to vomit.

i jsut wish everyone were vegan already so i didnt have to be angry at

them!

spiggy

 

--

Priscilla Pelkey

spiggy - email

(210) 576-2701 x5770 - voicemail/fax

 

 

 

---- " Honor Chan Hoi Yee " <honor_chan wrote:

[Non text/plain message body suppressed]

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Honor Chan Hoi Yee wrote:

>

> OK, I am FUMING right now! Just had to put up with some

non-vegans...explaining to them why veganism should be obligatory, that animal

rights are involved, blah, blah, blah...and these guys are members of the

SPCA...and they just DON'T FUCKING GET IT! PLEASE, SOMEBODY, HELP US!

aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! How can people be so FUCKING

THICK???

>

> Sorry...I had to let that out...the worst part was to know that these are

" animal lovers " and they go " huh? " when I bring in animal rights!

>

> *sighs*

>

> Honor

 

How about this nice, simple, summary:

 

If it hurts, it hurts whether you're a horse, a fish, or a human.

 

(The same can't automatically be said of invertebrates, BTW, AFAIK. I'm

not saying they can't suffer, but vertebrates seem to suffer in the same

way that we do.)

 

--

Ian McDonald

 

http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/

[Guest guest]

ok, i can sense myself getting flamed after this but i had to say something

 

> i jsut cant understand how people

> can know how animals are treated and still dismiss it.

 

first off, most people aren't aware of the conditions animals are kept in.

others may be aware but

due to fear of change or peer / familial / societal pressures do not stop eating

meat. others carry

on eating it because they enjoy it. that is the person's choice. it may not be

something that you or

i agree with but every person has freewill and can decide how to live their

life. some people choose

to eat meat. deal with it.

 

 

> it makes me not

> want to ever speak to these people again.

 

now i could understand that if say, they were a farmer or worked in a slaughter

house and were

directly connected with the killing of animals, but to not want to talk to

someone just because they

don't fit in with your opinion of what is right and wrong is abominable.

 

 

> one of my closest friends is

> non-veggie. ive been trying to convert him forever and he jsut doesnt

> care about the suffering of the animals he eats. its really frustrating

> that he could be so selfish.

 

methinks that if you carry on trying to convert him he wont be your friend for

much longer. what on

earth makes you think you have the right to tell people how they should live

their lives? what works

for you may not work for them, and its a part of being an adult that you accept

that. your friend

has obviously decided that your veganism is not an issue for him and he can

happily be friends with

you even though you don't eat meat, and he doesn't feel the need to try and

convert you back to

eating it. do you not think you have an obligation to him to return the favour,

to accept him as he

is even though he has made choices you have not?

 

 

> sometime i go through phases where i refuse

> to talk to anyone who eats meat

 

that is so bloody childish its almost making my blood boil. why should everyone

have to be the same?

to feel the same and do the same things? you do not have all the answers, you do

not know what is

best for the entire world and acting like you do is petty and ridiculous. what

if other people acted

like you? the childfree refused to talk to any parents? the hindus refused to

talk to the muslims,

sikhs, christians, atheists etc? we are supposed to be living in a tolerant

society that celebrates

diversity and individualism. grow up. get with the times. stop being so pig

headed and self centred.

it would work more wonders for the world than persuading one or two people to

stop eating meat.

 

sarah

[Guest guest]

I agree completely, what gives a person the right to dictate to others how

to live their lives? While on one hand i believe that is wrong to eat meat

and support such industries, i'm also pro-choice and believe in individul

liberty and personal freedom.

As for the trying to convert people - i think thats just bollocks, all my

friends (none of whom are vegan) know my views and they seem to appreciate

the fact that i don't rub it in their face 24-7, and it seems that knowing a

vegan who is tolerant of others has a positive effect, i'm only speaking

from personal experience, but it seems that when someone meets a vegan they

will form an impressiobn of vegans based on that person, and if that person

comes across as fundamentalist or self-righteous or whatever then so the

word will spread etc

To give an example, a good friend of mine who it must be said liked his meat

and his cheese and to begin with used to take the piss but after seeing i

didnt really give a flying fuck what he thought and i didn't care about

converting him as such has now stopped eating any red meat and even drinks

soya milk, not perfect, but a start. Also, several people who have met have

been surprised at how (relatively) " normal " i seemed and were pretty shocked

when they found out i was vegan as they expected constant diatribes and

nitpicking about their personal habits, and seem very surprised that i enjoy

a drink and a smoke, but each to their own as i would say.

Basically, we are only human and as such can only live our lives as best we

see fit, sorry if i have rambled on, cheers,

 

Ewan.

 

 

'Rise up and eradicate all power over you and within you. And have no truck

with the establishment of power over others. Be free and defend the freedom

of others against all trespass!' - Nestor Makhno

 

------

[Guest guest]

Sarah wrote:

>it may not be something that you or

>i agree with but every person has freewill and can decide how to live their

life. some people choose

>to eat meat. deal with it.

 

Indeed. Free will, eh? Well, my stance is that the very reason why I'm vegan

in the first place is to ponder whether or not animals should have their free

will. Though many may certainly disagree, my answer is yes, animals should have

THEIR free choice. Sure enough, I respect and support free will, that's a part

of my religion and an important part of me. But free choice and free will have

their limits - when the free choice/will of one violates that of another. The

very reason that animals still meet their untimely death and endure torture

before their execution is simply because they have not been granted rights. The

fact that they do not have rights now does not mean that they should not have

rights, it simply means humans haven't yet been able to see past their own

hypocrisy.

 

Sarah wrote:

>methinks that if you carry on trying to convert him he wont be your friend for

much longer. what on

>earth makes you think you have the right to tell people how they should live

their lives? what works

>for you may not work for them, and its a part of being an adult that you accept

that. your friend

>has obviously decided that your veganism is not an issue for him and he can

happily be friends with

>you even though you don't eat meat, and he doesn't feel the need to try and

convert you back to

>eating it. do you not think you have an obligation to him to return the favour,

to accept him as he

>is even though he has made choices you have not?

 

No, it's not a part of being an adult of accepting reality just because it just

'is.' What IS a part of being an adult, if you'd like to define the roles that

pertain to adulthood, is to attempt to change the reality that should not have

been. In this case, animal exploitation should never have been. Maybe her

friend may have decided veganism is not an issue for him and he can go on living

his life, however, what I think is at hand - veganism - is not a matter of

personal taste. It's a legal issue that has not been properly addressed.

Citizens who do not concern themselves with the Law, for example, and can live

happily without remembering them WOULD be thrown into jail should they be

prosecuted for a criminal offense. Yes, I am aware that animal law is not as

firmly in place as I make it sound, but it should be, and that is why I'm vegan.

 

Sarah wrote:

>why should everyone have to be the same?

>to feel the same and do the same things? you do not have all the answers, you

do not know what is

>best for the entire world and acting like you do is petty and ridiculous. what

if other people acted

>like you? the childfree refused to talk to any parents? the hindus refused to

talk to the muslims,

>sikhs, christians, atheists etc? we are supposed to be living in a tolerant

society that celebrates

>diversity and individualism. grow up. get with the times. stop being so pig

headed and self centred.

>it would work more wonders for the world than persuading one or two people to

stop eating meat.

 

No, I don't think anyone knows EXACTLY what is best for the entire world, but,

whether or not people agree is one thing, the Law was established to do its best

in ensuring that everyone gets their best from society. Call it petty and

ridiculous, but it works. And, again, animal rights issues should be

categorized under the legal section instead of individual beliefs such as

religion. A religion is an individual path, it is different in that it can be

practiced without directly infringing the rights of others. People going

childfree is an individual decision that is no one else's business. But eating

animals - we know damn well that, yes, animals ARE involved in the most

conceivably direct way - the animals are slaughtered. It's not being pigheaded

and self-centered - it's called common sense. Don't take it to the average

standard of common sense though, because at that level, it is not logic but the

true essence of pigheadedness and self-centeredness.

 

I go through every day life pretending as if my choice to go vegan is personal

when I know very well that it isn't. I have to act as if it were in order to

avoid non-vegans 'confirming' that vegans are radical and that vegans are

elitists. If being an elitist makes one sane, then sure, go ahead and call me

one. But I know I can't let my pretense swallow me - I live my life this way in

hopes of helping those who cannot speak for themselves. Any non-vegan who

challenges the 'why's' of veganism will get an extensive and rational list of

reasons from me without mercy. Non-vegans should be the ones to defend their

positions, not us. I show them no mercy because they themselves have shown none

to the animals whose meat sit on their plates every meal.

 

Honor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

obviously you read soemthing that pissed you off and thus you interpreted

my whole email wrongly. the email i was replying to was about explaining

to people about the suffering of animals (people who CLAIM to care about

animals) and them looking like they dont know what youre talking about.

if someone asks me why im vegan and then knocks me down im gonna get

pissed off. or when someone makes a comment about it (like the guy who

walked out of his meeting, i often get people taunting me by tleling

me how delicious their rare steak is). this is unacceptable. why shold

i have to " deal with it " when its because of the meat industry that things

like pfiesteria piscicida (the " cell from hell " , given this name because

its killed several scientists that were researching it) exist. any by

the way, if i knew someone who worked at a slaughterhouse, obviosuly

they are so incredibly poor that this is one of the few places that would

hire them, and i wouldnt hold that against them, thats their job. and

anyone who can have that job and STILL eat meat in my opinion deserves

that right. people who have no connection with it and thus dont give

a shit are the ones that bother me. thanks for the compliment. abominable,

ill have to remember that one. brian, my best friend, will always be

my best friend no matter what. you have no idea what our friendship is

like so id appreciate it if you stopped trying to predict how it will

end. he also smokes, and i am allergic to smoke. hes been trying to quit

for 6 years, obviosuly he is not a strong willed person. whenever we

first got into the vegetarianism thing he totally agreed with me. i dont

try to convert him because i think its right, i try to convert him because

HE thinks its right. ive never told anyone how to live. and even if i

did, whats wrong with that? everyone else keeps trying to tell ME how

to live. if you think im wrong for wanting to convert people, save lives

(both human and non-human), lessen the pollution in the environment,

then you shold also write a similar email to magazines who tell teenage

children that its ok to have sex, and have columns saying that if women

get too much iron it can be dangerous! thats absurd! its damn near impossible

for a woman to get too much iron. hey i never said i refused to talk

to people just cos they eat meat, i said that sometimes dont WANT to

talk to them. and if you have a problem with me for saying that, why

dont you get mad at everyone who would rather eat at a veggie place than

a meat place? get with the times? oh yeah! lets talk about the times

shall we? these times where people die from all sorts of horribel things

that could have been prevented if the meat industry wasnt full of profiteering

assholes. things such as e coli, bochelism, salmonella, pfiesteria piscicida,

starvation, cancer, etc... self-centered. well i cant disagree there.

after all, im in uni speding money to further MY education so i can make

a decent living when otehr people (and animals) are dying in 3rd world

countries, and the money im spending to make myself smart could be used

to give hundreds of people (or animals) a decent life. guess im just

a snotty little bitch then, arent i miss sarah monster?

 

 

--

Priscilla Pelkey

spiggy - email

(210) 576-2701 x5770 - voicemail/fax

 

 

 

---- " sarah monster " <chocofungi wrote:

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[Guest guest]

Ewan wrote

 

>Also, several people who have met have

>been surprised at how (relatively) " normal " i seemed and were pretty

>shocked

>when they found out i was vegan as they expected constant diatribes and

>nitpicking about their personal habits, and seem very surprised that i

> >enjoy

>a drink and a smoke

 

 

I've had the same experience - I try to leave it a couple of months at least

if I'm in a new job (I'm a temp atm so this happens quite frequently) before

I whip off the disguise of " ordinary " person and say TA-DA! I'm a vegan.

Then people have to go on treating me like a normal person or they'll look

really stupid

 

I've had a lot of comments which I choose to find encouraging, to the effect

that I look very healthy. I've started to wear a bit of subtle blusher on my

otherwise un-made-up face recently to couteract the stereotype of

" pasty-faced " that we seem to get stuck with as well. I realise this might

sound a bit manipulative, but I like to think of it as alternative

advertising.

 

That being the change we wish to see is a really cool quote - I've put it up

on my noticeboard, so thanks to whoever included here.

 

 

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