Vegan USUK

[Guest guest]

>

> Oh Ok Then- Vegan UK....

 

hey, that must make this the Vegan's USUK list.

 

[ try saying it aloud ].

 

is " anon " still with us and feeling depressed?

 

I have to say, I was inhibited about answering that email because the

address looks hell of a like an email address a spammer uses. if you are

genuine " anon " I suggest changing it. or just come out as you are.

 

I'd agree with kitty v's and torganics advice but add to it:

 

go learn to meditate too. you need to learn to control mind, direct it to

where you want not have it haul you around. that takes practice and that

practice is basically meditation of whatever sort you find.

 

it is not going to be easy but it is not going to become any easier if you

ignore doing so.

 

may be the starting point for change is to admit that you were just getting

off on and enjoying all that morbid stuff in a strange sort of way. but now

you are not. so change. it takes will but it is possible.

 

I would have to guess that it goes along with a whole load of other personal

problems, so may be a counsellor does sound like a great idea.

 

best wishes,

 

john

[Guest guest]

vegan-network, demo <jallan@f...> wrote:

 

> is " anon " still with us and feeling depressed?

 

I'm learning to cope with things more.

 

> I have to say, I was inhibited about answering that email because

the

> address looks hell of a like an email address a spammer uses. if

you are

> genuine " anon " I suggest changing it. or just come out as you

are.

 

I don't blame you, the content of the letter I wrote was probably a

severe breach of 'netiquette', I'm still emabarrassed about writing

it.

If I hadn't written it, posted it, and seen people's

reactions/replies to it I might have lost it completely and done

something like smash a Mcdonalds window or ended up bombing a

vivisection lab, who knows. I'm turning away from those kind of

negative feelings and actions now though. I would rather look on the

positive side, and think about taking positive action, like leaflets

and demos.

 

> I'd agree with kitty v's and torganics advice but add to it:

>

> go learn to meditate too. you need to learn to control mind,

direct it to

> where you want not have it haul you around. that takes practice

and that

> practice is basically meditation of whatever sort you find.

>

> it is not going to be easy but it is not going to become any

easier if you

> ignore doing so.

 

I have tried that... I need to meet some other vegan people in my

area as well, to stop feeling so alienated. I don't want to meet

them as a psychotic heretic though, and again, I needed to write

that letter.

 

> may be the starting point for change is to admit that you were

>just getting

> off on and enjoying all that morbid stuff in a strange sort of

>way.

 

Well it wasn't very 'fun' and I wasn't doing it on purpose.

 

>but now

> you are not. so change. it takes will but it is possible.

>

> I would have to guess that it goes along with a whole load of

other personal

> problems, so may be a counsellor does sound like a great idea.

 

Honestly what people have written back has made a great deal of

difference. If I saw a counsellor, it would be someone who I am

paying to analyse me. I really needed to somehow see what vegans who

don't analyse people for a living and who aren't deranged by society

think of what was happening to me.

The accumulated human knowledge of Psychology and its derivatives,

is based upon putting mice into mazes and similar kinds of

experimants using animals. I see those experiments as both unethical

and useless, and can only assume that a psychologist or counsellor

would think otherwise.

 

> best wishes,

>

> john

 

I still want to stay anonymous, I promise that I am not a spammer,

but I admit the letter i wrote was unusual and the email address

bizarre, I'll change my email address and let you know what it is

though.

regards,

anon

[Guest guest]

Hi anon vegan

 

>

> Honestly what people have written back has made a great deal of

> difference. If I saw a counsellor, it would be someone who I am

> paying to analyse me. I really needed to somehow see what vegans

who

> don't analyse people for a living and who aren't deranged by

society

> think of what was happening to me.

> The accumulated human knowledge of Psychology and its derivatives,

> is based upon putting mice into mazes and similar kinds of

> experimants using animals. I see those experiments as both

unethical

> and useless, and can only assume that a psychologist or counsellor

> would think otherwise.

 

I think you are making mistaken assumptions about the counselling

process- I'm not an expert by any means but person centred

counselling as proposed by Carl Rogers isn't about analysising,

drawing conclusions from studying rats and having preconceptions;

 

Here's some stuff from

http://world.std.com/~mbr2/whatscct.html

 

(sorry if it woffles a bit but I've directly cut & paste without

doing any editing to the passage in question- pick out what is

useful to you) (PS. I take your point about the paid/client

relationship- Co-counselling is another possibility, where 2 unpaid

people act as counsellors and offer mutual support to each other-

we've been discussing the idea of maybe setting up some sort of

vegans co-counselling course on one of the other vegan discussion

list- tho nothing definate yet, and there are reasons to be cautious

thgat have be highlighted. Personally i found both counselling and

(elements of) co-counselling useful when i got ill through stress a

couple of years ago)

 

anyway, here's the carl Rogers stuff;

 

" The Person-Centered Approach

Rogers has recently stated the basic hypothesis and the therapeutic

conditions that distinguish the person-centered approach as follows:

 

 

The central hypothesis of this approach can be briefly stated. It is

that the individual has within him or her self vast resources for

selfunderstanding, for altering her or his selfconcept, attitudes,

and self-directed behavior--and that these resources can be tapped

if only a definable climate of facilitative psychological attitudes

can be provided.

There are three conditions which constitute this growth-promoting

climate, whether we are speaking of the relationship between

therapist and client, parent and child, leader and group, teacher

and student, or administrator and staff. The conditions apply, in

fact, in any situation in which the development of the person is a

goal. I have described these conditions at length in previous

writings (Rogers, 1959, 1961). I present here a brief summary from

the point of view of psychotherapy, but the description applies to

all of the foregoing relationships.

 

The first element has to do with genuineness, realness, or

congruence. The more the therapist is him or herself in the

relationship, putting up no professional front or personal facade,

the greater is the likelihood that the client will change and grow

in a constructive manner. . . .

 

The second attitude of importance in creating a climate for change

is acceptance, or caring or prizing--unconditional positive regard.

It means that when the therapist is experiencing a positive,

nonjudgmental, accepting attitude toward whatever the client is at

that moment, therapeutic movement or change is more likely. . . .

 

The third facilitative aspect of the relationship is empathic

understanding. This means that the therapist senses accurately the

feelings and personal meanings that are being experienced by the

client and communicates this acceptant understanding to the client.

(Rogers, 1986).

 

 

 

Additional assumptions, beliefs and hypotheses that are central to

the person-centered approach are the following:

Belief that human nature is basically constructive.

 

 

Belief that human nature is basically social.

 

 

Belief that self-regard is a basic human need and that self-regard,

autonomy and individual sensitivity are to be protected in helping

relationships.

 

 

Belief that persons are basically motivated to perceive

realistically and to pursue the truth of situations.

 

 

Belief that perceptions are a major determinant of personal

experience and behavior and, thus, to understand a person one must

attempt to understand them empathically.

 

 

Belief that the individual person is the basic unit and that the

individual should be addressed, (not groups, families,

organizations, etc.), in situations intended to foster growth.

 

 

Belief in the concept of the whole person.

 

 

Belief that persons are realizing and protecting themselves as best

they can at any given time and under the internal and external

circumstances that exist at that time.

 

 

Belief in abdication of the pursuit of control or authority over

other persons and, instead, a commitment to strive to share power

and control.

 

 

A commitment to openmindedness and humility in respect to theory and

practice.

 

 

The basic hypothesis, the theory of therapy and the additional

beliefs stated above describe the person-centered approach. They are

elements I believe are usually shared by the people practicing the

various person-centered therapies including client-centered therapy. "

 

HTH Graham