murder?

[Guest guest]

Don't know about back home in the U.K. but in New Zealand at the moment,

every time I pick up a paper or switch on the T.V. there is the couple who

let their 6 month old son die. The couple in question are the Moorheads.

They are a deeply religious vegan couple. Apparently the mother took baby

Caleb out of hospital when she was told he would die if he did not get

treatment. Deborah Moorhead beleived that herbal remedies would cure him.

When he died they just thought that was gods way. He had been fed on breast

milk [alone it seems]

He was not getting vitamin B12 and died as a result. The underside of his

tongue had been worn away. Sounds like he must have suffered before his

death.

They have each been sentenced to 5 years imprisonment for manslaughter.

She is 6 months pregnant at the moment and it seems when the time is right

the new baby will be taken away from her.

I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for them. Does anyone else?

 

I have always said I'll take my beleifs as far as it is possible and

practical. I don't beleive it's neccessary for any animal to die unless it

were for my own survival and I have to say that had that baby been my own

flesh and blood I would have done anything for it's chance of survival.

 

While I've been here, I'm just so reluctant to mention to anyone that I am

vegan, because of this story, people are just too quick to judge. It would

be too easy for them to think that everyone who eats a vegan diet is a total

nutcase. I guess they won't pay any attention to the many healthy vegan

families there are out there, while they stuff yet another 'healthy'

McDonalds down their childs throat.

dee

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Such terrible tragedies are rare but they would be a good deal less

likely to happen if vegan families were not for the most part so very

alone and isolated. It might have been very difficult for this mother

to access any peer support and advice from other vegan families (or

if she was a raw fooder, then she would specifically need to know

other faw fooders raising children - even more rare and difficult to

find). We don't know the whole situation, and whether any sort of

support was offered other than from health professionals who didn't

understand or respect her beliefs. Peer to peer support is the key in

these situations, with every vegan family having like-minded friends

locally for support, they are more likely to be able to get some

vegan-friendly advice on getting their B12 and resolving any other

vegan-related health issues.

 

If any good can come from this and the Areni Manuelyan tragedy, it

should act as a wake-up call to vegan groups the world over to fully

support and welcome vegan families.

 

Why does it say on your front page that this a Lesley Dove free zone?

I understand that she is the person largely responsible for setting

up little gatherings to facilitate contact and friendship between

vegan families, something long overdue in the vegan world I would

have thought, so why is she being ostracised? The vegan community

seems mostly to be childfrees who are so quick to judge and so slow

to support when it comes to vegan families.

 

Dee, be proud to be vegan, I'm sure the sceptics can see you are not

about to die from it! If you are a good advert for it you have

nothing to worry about, and the anti-vegans have no reason to

criticise you!

 

Irene

 

 

vegan-network, " Dee Matheson " <dmatheson72@h...> wrote:

> Don't know about back home in the U.K. but in New Zealand at the

moment,

> every time I pick up a paper or switch on the T.V. there is the

couple who

> let their 6 month old son die. The couple in question are the

Moorheads.

> They are a deeply religious vegan couple. Apparently the mother

took baby

> Caleb out of hospital when she was told he would die if he did not

get

> treatment. Deborah Moorhead beleived that herbal remedies would

cure him.

> When he died they just thought that was gods way. He had been fed

on breast

> milk [alone it seems]

> He was not getting vitamin B12 and died as a result. The underside

of his

> tongue had been worn away. Sounds like he must have suffered before

his

> death.

> They have each been sentenced to 5 years imprisonment for

manslaughter.

> She is 6 months pregnant at the moment and it seems when the time

is right

> the new baby will be taken away from her.

> I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for them. Does anyone else?

>

> I have always said I'll take my beleifs as far as it is possible

and

> practical. I don't beleive it's neccessary for any animal to die

unless it

> were for my own survival and I have to say that had that baby been

my own

> flesh and blood I would have done anything for it's chance of

survival.

>

> While I've been here, I'm just so reluctant to mention to anyone

that I am

> vegan, because of this story, people are just too quick to judge.

It would

> be too easy for them to think that everyone who eats a vegan diet

is a total

> nutcase. I guess they won't pay any attention to the many healthy

vegan

> families there are out there, while they stuff yet

another 'healthy'

> McDonalds down their childs throat.

> dee

>

>

> _______________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

If a 6 month old is only getting breastmilk and that is not giving

him enough B12 to even survive, it would be fair to deduce that the

mother is severely deficient in B12 also. Under normal circumstances

a baby should start having small amounts of pureed fruit and veg

between 4 and 6 months, and breastmilk alone is normally quite

adequate at the age this baby was when he died.

 

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000574.htm

 

Please note that on the listed symptoms it is said that there may be

confusion or change in mental status in severe or advanced cases of

B12 deficiency, therefore the mother herself was probably more ill

than she realised and most likely cannot be held responsible for her

baby's death. Hopefully she has a good lawyer who will argue this if

the medical tests on her bear it out.

 

Yes, people are quick to judge her aren't they? She was probably too

far gone with her own deficiency to understand how seriously ill her

baby was, so I do have sympathy for her as well as the baby because

of what is reasonable to deduce from the evidence you have given.

I'm no Sherlock and it was obvious to me.

 

The vegan community in her country should have been better supporting

her. This baby's death surely would have been prevented if

neighbouring vegans were there supporting vegan families in their

area. Very sad that this was allowed to happen through general

neglect of families within the vegan community.

 

More kids die from illnesses caused by parental smoking than from

inadequate vegan diets and this is not in the news all the time. It

should be and this is manslaughter, possibly murder, because the

parents know the harm they are doing!

 

Lesley (yes, it's me, couldn't resist blowing my cover just to prove

that " Lesley Dove " can lurk as can anyone else under a pseudonym!)

 

PS, Is this also a MrBig free zone?

 

vegan-network, " Dee Matheson " <dmatheson72@h...> wrote:

> Don't know about back home in the U.K. but in New Zealand at the

moment,

> every time I pick up a paper or switch on the T.V. there is the

couple who

> let their 6 month old son die. The couple in question are the

Moorheads.

> They are a deeply religious vegan couple. Apparently the mother

took baby

> Caleb out of hospital when she was told he would die if he did not

get

> treatment. Deborah Moorhead beleived that herbal remedies would

cure him.

> When he died they just thought that was gods way. He had been fed

on breast

> milk [alone it seems]

> He was not getting vitamin B12 and died as a result. The underside

of his

> tongue had been worn away. Sounds like he must have suffered before

his

> death.

> They have each been sentenced to 5 years imprisonment for

manslaughter.

> She is 6 months pregnant at the moment and it seems when the time

is right

> the new baby will be taken away from her.

> I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for them. Does anyone else?

>

> I have always said I'll take my beleifs as far as it is possible

and

> practical. I don't beleive it's neccessary for any animal to die

unless it

> were for my own survival and I have to say that had that baby been

my own

> flesh and blood I would have done anything for it's chance of

survival.

>

> While I've been here, I'm just so reluctant to mention to anyone

that I am

> vegan, because of this story, people are just too quick to judge.

It would

> be too easy for them to think that everyone who eats a vegan diet

is a total

> nutcase. I guess they won't pay any attention to the many healthy

vegan

> families there are out there, while they stuff yet

another 'healthy'

> McDonalds down their childs throat.

> dee

>

>

> _______________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

>Don't know about back home in the U.K. but in New

>Zealand at the moment, every time I pick up a paper

>or switch on the T.V. there is the couple who

>let their 6 month old son die.

 

I read about this a couple days ago and agree it's

terrible. Apparently all the baby needed was a shot of

B12 which was offered and urged repeatedly by health

professionals. I feel terrible to think that the baby

died due to the parents' stubborn fundamentalist

attitudes. I hate to think how much damage they've

done to our fledgling cause in NZ. There was a

similar case here a year or two ago I remember.

 

Well I hope you are otherwise enjoying Aotearoa, Dee.

Where are you at the moment?

 

Ash

 

 

 

- Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

http://fifaworldcup.

[Guest guest]

Was interesting to read everyones opinions on this matter.

 

> John Allan <jallan

 

>I don¹t believe it is just as simple as being vegan to fault.

 

Neither do I. They were also very religious people and perhaps those beleifs

came into it too.

>

>To be honest, I support individuals *and* families right to let themselves

>members die.

 

Yes, but not otherwise healthy individuals who can easily be helped.

 

 

> " irene_lucy " <irene.lucy

 

>Please note that on the listed symptoms it is said that there may be

>confusion or change in mental status in severe or advanced cases of

>B12 deficiency, therefore the mother herself was probably more ill

>than she realised and most likely cannot be held responsible for her

>baby's death. Hopefully she has a good lawyer who will argue this if

>the medical tests on her bear it out.

 

I really don't think this is an excuse for the death of this baby. I wonder

if her husband was as ill as her then? This involved both of them. Even if

she were that ill, I find it hard to beleive that anyone could fail to

understand the words 'your baby will die if he is not treated.'

 

>The vegan community in her country should have been better supporting

>her. This baby's death surely would have been prevented if

>neighbouring vegans were there supporting vegan families in their

>area. Very sad that this was allowed to happen through general

>neglect of families within the vegan community.

 

I don't think their decision had anything to do with anyone else. No one

else can be blamed for this happening. Most people would use their common

sense to get the information or support they need.

>

>More kids die from illnesses caused by parental smoking than from

>inadequate vegan diets and this is not in the news all the time. It

>should be and this is manslaughter, possibly murder, because the

>parents know the harm they are doing!

 

This is very true. I only wish there were as many vegans as there were

smokers to prove this point to those who'd be quick to accuse all vegans as

potential murderers.

 

 

>Dee, be proud to be vegan, I'm sure the sceptics can see you are not

>about to die from it! If you are a good advert for it you have

>nothing to worry about, and the anti-vegans have no reason to

>criticise you!

 

Thanks, Lesley. But sometimes I just can't be bothered always having to

defend myself. And judging by your photos of baby Lucy on another vegan

site, I'm sure she would be a good advert for a healthy vegan diet too!

 

)

> Ashley Hooper <ash_hooper

 

>I read about this a couple days ago and agree it's

>terrible. Apparently all the baby needed was a shot of

>B12 which was offered and urged repeatedly by health

>professionals. I feel terrible to think that the baby

>died due to the parents' stubborn fundamentalist

>attitudes. I hate to think how much damage they've

>done to our fledgling cause in NZ. There was a

>similar case here a year or two ago I remember.

 

Yes, Ashley. I bet the meat and dairy industries will be loving this.

They'll probably expect all the veggies to quickly abandon their silly idea

of living a cruelty free lifestyle and rush out to stock up on a load of

beefburgers and ice-cream to make up for all that lost time, eh?

>

>Well I hope you are otherwise enjoying Aotearoa, Dee.

>Where are you at the moment?

 

I am indeed. At the moment I'm in Napier and will soon be heading North to

maybe KeriKeri. Where I beleive there are more veggies? I haven't met any

here so far. Theres a veggie restaurant, but it doesn't do vegan food.

 

I was in a bar in Napier the other day and was horrified with what I won in

a raffle. Not a nice bottle of vegan wine or whiskey, not a ticket to the

cinema but a big pack of raw steaks!! Aaaaaarrrgh. What a strange prize!

Funnily enough, I didn't accept my 'prize' much to the delight of the people

sitting next to me with their eyes bulging and tongues hanging out.

 

Ian wrote....

 

> > My guess is these vegan parents were well-intended, and that ignorance

>was

> > the cause.

 

Quite possible but ignorance is not an excuse either.

 

throwing them in jail will teach them what? If they think

> > god intended for the death, jail won't change their beliefs, and if they

>think B12 isn't import jail won't change that belief either.

>

>Well, now we're getting into a debate about penal policy. I do believe

>that someone who closes their minds to evidence and facts rather than

>change their mind is committing a kind of selfishness. But that can't be

>a basis for public policy, because it would lead to something very

>illiberal.

>

>The point of prison is multiple.

>1. Prevention. It makes it very easy to take the newborn away. Plus,

>they're unlikely to have more children whlist they are on the inside.

>2. Rehabilitation. Whilst in jail, perhaps the state has a better chance

>of persuading them of the error of their ways. No, I don't find that

>convincing, either.

>3. Exemplary. Other parents will look after their children better

>because they don't want to go to prison.

>4. Message. It draws a line: treating your child like this is

>unacceptable

>5. Placation. With a functioning judicial system, the mob won't be so

>tempted to take the law into their own hands.

>

>Anyway, that's the theory. In practice, it's an expensive way of making

>bad people worse, but I still won't shed any tears for these parents.

 

Nor will I. You make some very good points here.

 

Dee

 

 

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