Guest guest Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 i personally dont take vitamins because how can i advocate veganism if i cant even survive on the diet? EBbrewpunx wrote: ok, i in no bleedin way want to get into the whole cohen/ et al fight.. i admit cohen has some good points and makes valid arguments, but he has severe issues in my opinion, wotever..that is not why am i posting this i just thought it was a good point and i think folks get tooo wrapped up in vitamins and all that sort... besides b12(and i'm still not convinced we can't get it vegan) wot the heck do we need pills for?? just my opnion, and i'd like to hear others opinions as fer his claims about walsh and all, wotever, i take em with a grain of salt, he has flung accusations before..i'll wait and find out fer meself like i said, this is just fer info and a topic cheers fraggle The members of a doomed flock of sheep being led to slaughter know no better than to obediently obey the mandate of their leader. There is no individual plan within the mass deathwalk. Just an innate species-specific wish to belong to a crowd and be one with the movement. They walk to their deaths in a long straight line, up a ramp, obedient to the nose following tail, following rump following head, each ass leading each unthinking brain, which delivers that group to their demise by a well-honed executioner's blade. What manner of sheep do I describe? Which of the lambs and ewes march single file to their own betrayal, ignoring their fate, the warning signs of their screaming brothers and sisters? The rancid bouquet of death permeates the air. Do the sheep trust their own instincts and smell something rotten and act by resisting? Not at all. The message is sacrificed for the comfort of togetherness. Who is that cheviot leading all to slaughter? What Welsh Hill speckled-face ram instructs others to obey? There is a sub-movement within the vegetarian and vegan movement that becomes uglier each day. There is a betrayal of sorts, and an intentional method of deceit spreads from one vegetarian to another. The message is this: It is unhealthy to be a vegan. It is unhealthy to be a vegetarian. If you are a vegetarian or vegan and do not take artificial supplements produced in factories by pharmaceutical companies, you will not be as healthy as a meat eater. The underlying theme of the message is this: Vegetarianism and veganism are dietary philosophies which cannot stand on their own. One cannot eat just fruits of the vine, vegetables from the ground, grains, and beans, nuts and seeds and remain whole. One must eat animals or animal byproducts to remain healthy. This is the message of the leader sheep. The wolves wearing sheep's clothing who lead and betray those willing to sacrice their own brains and follow blindly by swallowing that message of deceit. VEGNEWS There is a wonderful vegetarian newspaper called VegNews. I am a r, and adore each issue. The June edition contains magnificent information, and entertaining columns about all things vegan. (to call: 415-665-6397 or contact Joe and Colleen online: subscription ) The June issue of VegNews contains one article that I call the " black sheep " of all articles. The deception is delivered by a man named Jack Norris. Mr. Norris heads an organization known as Vegan Action. Norris recently attended a nutritional conference in Loma Linda, California. I knew about that conference last year, and submitted a request to present information. I was ignored. Norris writes: " I was disappointed that many popular vegan advocates who speak and write on health issues were not in attendance. It would be worthwhile to get both researchers and advocates on the same page... " Sadly, they are on the same page, and the paper and ink for that page may very well be paid for by the meat, milk, and pharmaceutical industries. Morris delivers this message to vegans and vegetarians: " Dr. Synnove Knutsen (Loma Linda University) presented findings from the Adventist Health Study looking at hip fractures in vegetarians and meat-eaters. They found that the more animal foods someone ate, the less likely they were to have a hip fracture. " Morris struck again: " Dr. David DeRose made a presentation underlining the need for vegans to supplement with vitamin B-12... " Morris continues: " Dr. Zoue Lloyd-Wright presented findings from the Oxford section of the EPIC-Oxford study on omega-3 levels of vegans and omnivores. They found that omnivores had higher levels of all omega-3 fatty acids. " Morris then presents additional disinformation, presented so beautifully that who would suspect that it is not true: " Hal Marlow (Loma Linda University) compared the pesticide use required for various diets in the state of California. Surprisingly, he found that a vegetarian diet was associated with more pesticides. " With friends like Norris, who needs enemas? Perhaps the entire movement needs a massive colon-cleansing. Where did the desire to destroy a movement begin? Pharmaceutical companies have billions of dollars to invest. They do so through television and print ads. They do so by donating money to politicians. They do so by financing phony and biased studies. Do any of the sheep among us doubt that they nurture industry spokespersons to deliver their unhealthy messages? Does anybody doubt that some of their more successful spokespersons fool some of the people some of the time and become beloved speakers for the movement? One man named Steve Walsh has accomplished the impossible. He has deceived the owner of the most widely-read vegetarian website on the World Wide Web. Walsh is now presented as a learned man of medicine. Walsh has a Ph.D in computer science, but he is not a doctor in the way that he is being portrayed. He is now referred to as Dr. Walsh, nutritional expert. Walsh pretends to be vegan, but defends the use of dairy products. One need only read his articles to see the deceitful rhetoric. Who is Steve Walsh? Walsh is employed by one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in Europe. Careful research has demonstrated that his employer, ICI, is one of the largest processors of milk protein, casein. ICI also works closely with Monsanto, creating designer additives that work with Roundup, the poison that kills all plants save those that have been created through genetic engineering. ASK YOURSLF THIS: With so many billions of dollars at stake, would a multi-national pharmaceutical conglomerate allow an employee to become as visible as Mr. Walsh has become? Walsh does so with his company's blessing. That is because he has successfully infiltrated the vegetarian movement. Step one is to destroy what men of conscience say. Step two is to intimidate all other men of conscience into becomming lambs. Walsh has found a welcome home in America's vegetarian movement. Those in the know keep their thoughts private. The silence of the lambs. Walsh has been critical of everything I say and do. That criticism began one year ago, when he stalked my family and myself through a Great Britain lecture tour. Night after night, Walsh followed me to lectures, upsetting each talk by screaming " Cohen is a liar. " The first time, I carefully addressed his concern. The second time, he brought up the same issue, and I realized that he was there to disrupt and not seek truth. There is an infection in the movement. Walsh is the infiltrator. He infects all with his worm-like virus. If veganism does not work, then it is time for all of us to eat animals. Vitamin B-12 comes from animals. The insides of intestines from slaughtered animal are scraped of their feces so that the vitamin B-12 so contained can be added to supplements that work only to add cash flow to those who manufacture and dispense same. Nelson and Walsh and Norris and men and women like them would have you eat feces in the name of good nutrition. One of the great vegetarian nurtitionists, George Eisman, calls B-12 the least important on his list of 50,000 vitamins and enzymes. Those practitioners who test for B-12 do so by drawing blood. B-12 can be stored in the human body for 5 years, and it's not stored in the blood. Man's tests are often deceptive, but they do produce cash flow for those doing the testing, and those manufacturing the supplements. Do not be one of the sheep. Jack Norris is co-founder and director of Vegan Outreach, an organization whose original mission was to promote a vegan lifestyle in order to promote animal suffering. A recent vegan outreach newsletter contained information that was originally written by the vegetarian movement's great infiltrator, Steve Walsh. That information was filled with hatred and attacked an individual for his criticism of a pro-milk article that claimed that drinking milk prevented breast cancer. I was the one being attacked, for my passion to criticize the dairy industry. Did the Norris organization help animals in attacking me, or did they help those who abuse animals? There is not a conspiracy here. Just a few sheep leading the other obedient ovines to slaughter. Do not be one of those sheep. The next time a vegan speaker tells you that you need Vitamin B-12 or calcium pills, or claims that being a vegan is unhealthy unless you take animal-based supplements, give that person your most passionate " baaaaa, humbug. " Robert Cohen http://www.notmilk.com To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 so, how do you feel about the whole b12 thing? Priscilla Pelkey <pink_felixxx wrote: > > i personally dont take vitamins because how can i advocate veganism if i cant even survive on the diet? > EBbrewpunx wrote: ok, i in no bleedin way want to get into the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 I have to have B12 jabs bi monthly. Though I love marmite etc. which are B12 rich I also have a food sensitivity to yeast! Without my jabs I become very very itchy, depressed, tearful and pick up loads of bugs I don't take any other vitamin supplement as like you I feel it can be found in my diet. I do feel however that we do need to be tolerant of people like myself who cannot get it in a vegan diet and applaud them for taking the action of getting these jabs instead of eating meat. Jayne EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 27 June 2002 22:57 vegan-network Re: [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post so, how do you feel about the whole b12 thing? Priscilla Pelkey <pink_felixxx wrote: > > i personally dont take vitamins because how can i advocate veganism if i cant even survive on the diet? > EBbrewpunx wrote: ok, i in no bleedin way want to get into the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 oh..not being intolerant at all just asking questions is all we can't learn unless we talk to one another, correct? fraggle " Jayne Blissett " <jayneblissett wrote: >I have to have B12 jabs bi monthly. Though I love marmite etc. which are B12 >rich I also have a food sensitivity to yeast! > >Without my jabs I become very very itchy, depressed, tearful and pick up >loads of bugs > >I don't take any other vitamin supplement as like you I feel it can be found >in my diet. I do feel however that we do need to be tolerant of people like >myself who cannot get it in a vegan diet and applaud them for taking the >action of getting these jabs instead of eating meat. > >Jayne > > EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] > 27 June 2002 22:57 > vegan-network > Re: [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post > > > so, how do you feel about the whole b12 thing? > > > Priscilla Pelkey <pink_felixxx wrote: > > > > > i personally dont take vitamins because how can i advocate veganism if i >cant even survive on the diet? > > EBbrewpunx wrote: ok, i in no bleedin way want to get into the > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 there are sources of B12 that dont come from animals. and besides, it builds up in the body so its not like you have to have a certain amount every day. the UK doesnt sell clif/luna bars, but fortunately i have loads of relatives in america that like to send me stuff. luna bars have 100% of all the B vitamins and they are completely vegan. also, keep an eye on seaweed candy. its imported from japan and certain types of seaweed are loaded with B12. sounds pretty gross but its actually pretty tasty spiggs Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 vegan outreach is reporting that seaweed has b12 analogs in it , not b12 *shrugs* me..i'm waiting for more info i eat a lot of suishi, so, finding out that nori is supposedly full of b12 mimics made me sad but, like i said, i think the jury is still out cheers fraggle Priscilla Pelkey <pink_felixxx wrote: > > there are sources of B12 that dont come from animals. and besides, it builds up in the body so its not like you have to have a certain amount every day. the UK doesnt sell clif/luna bars, but fortunately i have loads of relatives in america that like to send me stuff. luna bars have 100% of all the B vitamins and they are completely vegan. also, keep an eye on seaweed candy. its imported from japan and certain types of seaweed are loaded with B12. sounds pretty gross but its actually pretty tasty >spiggs > > > > > >Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 Inspired by yesterdays posts did research on natural sources of B12. Then followed up advice given a couple of weeks ago on another list and checked out 49 page report summarising loads of research on http://www.veganoutreach.org/health/B122002.pdf Only understood about 30% of it, but understood enough!!! Answered many, many questions that bothered me - like how, why, how is it made, soil health, natural sources etc. Well worth ploughing through. Tomorrow I go straight down to health store to buy decent quality sub lingual high strength B12, chucking out my cheap weak stuff from the chemist, that I hadn't actually bothered to start taking anyway. B12 is made by bacterium. At least one company in France is using gentically modified bacterium. Bet that's what goes into the cheap B12 tablets and all the more commerial B complexes. Vegan Outreach simple one page instruction on B12 http://veganoutreach.org/health/b12letter.html READ THE LABELS - B12 I thought I was getting some B12 but Provamel organic soy milk does not have any B12 at all. Nor does Pure organic vegan spread. It's not allowed in organic products under UK and EU regs. Ordinary Provamel soy milk DOES have B12 as does ordinary Pure soy spread. Can somebody please tell me the difference between 1mg, 1000 mcg and 100 ug? Saw a posting covering this somewhere but can't find it again. (or how to type the funny u thing). Wish I was at Glastonbury. It's on the box and looks brill. Wish John Peel didn't let us dowm my by doing TV voiceovers and stupid old codger programmes on Radio4. Wish I was 20. And don't believe all that crap about it's all in the mind, the body helps... the body helps...especially when it comes to tents and festival toilets. Perhaps next year I can afford a camper van... Perhaps B12 is all I need! Rosanne > there are sources of B12 that dont come from animals. and besides, it builds up in the body so its not like you have to have a certain amount every day. the UK doesnt sell clif/luna bars, but fortunately i have loads of relatives in america that like to send me stuff. luna bars have 100% of all the B vitamins and they are completely vegan. also, keep an eye on seaweed candy. its imported from japan and certain types of seaweed are loaded with B12. sounds pretty gross but its actually pretty tasty > spiggs > > > > > > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 I think some meat eaters and some veggies would need a vitamin supliment and others not. I take one irratically when I remember, maybe after a heavy night out or something when anything is worth a go! I don't seem to suffer any ill effects, in fact, my other half and I haven't had even a cold for over three years now. Probably spoiled it by talking too soon! Love Shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 - " rzanuk " <rzanuk > Inspired by yesterdays posts did research on natural sources of B12. > Then followed up advice given a couple of weeks ago on another list > and checked out 49 page report summarising loads of research on > http://www.veganoutreach.org/health/B122002.pdf > B12 is made by bacterium. At least one company in France is using > gentically modified bacterium. Bet that's what goes into the cheap > B12 tablets and all the more commerial B complexes. avoid them unknown GMOs! http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/GMOharms.html > Vegan Outreach simple one page instruction on B12 > http://veganoutreach.org/health/b12letter.html > > READ THE LABELS - B12 > I thought I was getting some B12 but Provamel organic soy milk does > not have any B12 at all. Nor does Pure organic vegan spread. It's not > allowed in organic products under UK and EU regs. > Ordinary Provamel soy milk DOES have B12 as does ordinary Pure soy > spread. I get my B12 from EdenSoy Extra soymilk (organic- double-certified, non-GMO, aluminum-free processing (related to Alzheimers), reduced phytic acid, reduced trypsin, and more) http://www.edenfoods.com/info/03072001.html > Can somebody please tell me the difference between 1mg, 1000 mcg and > 100 ug? Saw a posting covering this somewhere but can't find it > again. (or how to type the funny u thing). mg is milligrams (thousandth of a gram), mcg and ug are micrograms (millionth of a gram) Jon Janssen > > Wish I was at Glastonbury. It's on the box and looks brill. Wish John > Peel didn't let us dowm my by doing TV voiceovers and stupid > old codger programmes on Radio4. > Wish I was 20. And don't believe all that crap about it's all in the > mind, the body helps... the body helps...especially when it comes to > tents and festival toilets. Perhaps next year I can afford a camper > van... > > Perhaps B12 is all I need! > > Rosanne > > > > > there are sources of B12 that dont come from animals. and besides, > it builds up in the body so its not like you have to have a certain > amount every day. the UK doesnt sell clif/luna bars, but fortunately > i have loads of relatives in america that like to send me stuff. luna > bars have 100% of all the B vitamins and they are completely vegan. > also, keep an eye on seaweed candy. its imported from japan and > certain types of seaweed are loaded with B12. sounds pretty gross but > its actually pretty tasty > > spiggs > > > > > > > > > > > > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 The Edensoy stuff looks really good. Is there anything with similar high standards in the UK? Our UK/EU organic standards don't allow fortification with B12 but setting that aside I would really like to find a company who guaranteed a few standards for soymilk such as aluminium, nickel and plastics free processing and slow natural methods of production. I have sent email to Provamel requesting info on all the issues raised on the Edensoy site. Will post reply if and when they reply. Please join me in pestering manufacturers. If they don't get lots of enquiries they don't realise that people do care. One crackpot they can ignore. A couple of hundred enquiries gets the issue raised at board level. http://www.provamel.co.uk/ Rosanne - who feels as if she's waging a one woman war at times. > > I get my B12 from EdenSoy Extra soymilk (organic- double-certified, non-GMO, > aluminum-free processing (related to Alzheimers), reduced phytic acid, > reduced trypsin, and more) http://www.edenfoods. com/info/03072001.html > > > Can somebody please tell me the difference between 1mg, 1000 mcg and > > 100 ug? Saw a posting covering this somewhere but can't find it > > again. (or how to type the funny u thing). > > mg is milligrams (thousandth of a gram), mcg and ug are micrograms > (millionth of a gram) > > > Jon Janssen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 B12 is available in raw, soaked soy beans. Tiffany D. Moon *Question empiricism. http://members.cox.net/tiffany.moon/resume.htm - EBbrewpunx ESI-List ; eco_vegans ; EthicalVegans ; HarmNone ; punkvegetarianvegansex ; stopanimalcruelty ; TFHB ; vegan-network ; ; veganhumpers ; veganmania Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:14 AM [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post ok, i in no bleedin way want to get into the whole cohen/ et al fight.. i admit cohen has some good points and makes valid arguments, but he has severe issues in my opinion, wotever..that is not why am i posting this i just thought it was a good point and i think folks get tooo wrapped up in vitamins and all that sort... besides b12(and i'm still not convinced we can't get it vegan) wot the heck do we need pills for?? just my opnion, and i'd like to hear others opinions as fer his claims about walsh and all, wotever, i take em with a grain of salt, he has flung accusations before..i'll wait and find out fer meself like i said, this is just fer info and a topic cheers fraggle The members of a doomed flock of sheep being led to slaughter know no better than to obediently obey the mandate of their leader. There is no individual plan within the mass deathwalk. Just an innate species-specific wish to belong to a crowd and be one with the movement. They walk to their deaths in a long straight line, up a ramp, obedient to the nose following tail, following rump following head, each ass leading each unthinking brain, which delivers that group to their demise by a well-honed executioner's blade. What manner of sheep do I describe? Which of the lambs and ewes march single file to their own betrayal, ignoring their fate, the warning signs of their screaming brothers and sisters? The rancid bouquet of death permeates the air. Do the sheep trust their own instincts and smell something rotten and act by resisting? Not at all. The message is sacrificed for the comfort of togetherness. Who is that cheviot leading all to slaughter? What Welsh Hill speckled-face ram instructs others to obey? There is a sub-movement within the vegetarian and vegan movement that becomes uglier each day. There is a betrayal of sorts, and an intentional method of deceit spreads from one vegetarian to another. The message is this: It is unhealthy to be a vegan. It is unhealthy to be a vegetarian. If you are a vegetarian or vegan and do not take artificial supplements produced in factories by pharmaceutical companies, you will not be as healthy as a meat eater. The underlying theme of the message is this: Vegetarianism and veganism are dietary philosophies which cannot stand on their own. One cannot eat just fruits of the vine, vegetables from the ground, grains, and beans, nuts and seeds and remain whole. One must eat animals or animal byproducts to remain healthy. This is the message of the leader sheep. The wolves wearing sheep's clothing who lead and betray those willing to sacrice their own brains and follow blindly by swallowing that message of deceit. VEGNEWS There is a wonderful vegetarian newspaper called VegNews. I am a r, and adore each issue. The June edition contains magnificent information, and entertaining columns about all things vegan. (to call: 415-665-6397 or contact Joe and Colleen online: subscription ) The June issue of VegNews contains one article that I call the " black sheep " of all articles. The deception is delivered by a man named Jack Norris. Mr. Norris heads an organization known as Vegan Action. Norris recently attended a nutritional conference in Loma Linda, California. I knew about that conference last year, and submitted a request to present information. I was ignored. Norris writes: " I was disappointed that many popular vegan advocates who speak and write on health issues were not in attendance. It would be worthwhile to get both researchers and advocates on the same page... " Sadly, they are on the same page, and the paper and ink for that page may very well be paid for by the meat, milk, and pharmaceutical industries. Morris delivers this message to vegans and vegetarians: " Dr. Synnove Knutsen (Loma Linda University) presented findings from the Adventist Health Study looking at hip fractures in vegetarians and meat-eaters. They found that the more animal foods someone ate, the less likely they were to have a hip fracture. " Morris struck again: " Dr. David DeRose made a presentation underlining the need for vegans to supplement with vitamin B-12... " Morris continues: " Dr. Zoue Lloyd-Wright presented findings from the Oxford section of the EPIC-Oxford study on omega-3 levels of vegans and omnivores. They found that omnivores had higher levels of all omega-3 fatty acids. " Morris then presents additional disinformation, presented so beautifully that who would suspect that it is not true: " Hal Marlow (Loma Linda University) compared the pesticide use required for various diets in the state of California. Surprisingly, he found that a vegetarian diet was associated with more pesticides. " With friends like Norris, who needs enemas? Perhaps the entire movement needs a massive colon-cleansing. Where did the desire to destroy a movement begin? Pharmaceutical companies have billions of dollars to invest. They do so through television and print ads. They do so by donating money to politicians. They do so by financing phony and biased studies. Do any of the sheep among us doubt that they nurture industry spokespersons to deliver their unhealthy messages? Does anybody doubt that some of their more successful spokespersons fool some of the people some of the time and become beloved speakers for the movement? One man named Steve Walsh has accomplished the impossible. He has deceived the owner of the most widely-read vegetarian website on the World Wide Web. Walsh is now presented as a learned man of medicine. Walsh has a Ph.D in computer science, but he is not a doctor in the way that he is being portrayed. He is now referred to as Dr. Walsh, nutritional expert. Walsh pretends to be vegan, but defends the use of dairy products. One need only read his articles to see the deceitful rhetoric. Who is Steve Walsh? Walsh is employed by one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in Europe. Careful research has demonstrated that his employer, ICI, is one of the largest processors of milk protein, casein. ICI also works closely with Monsanto, creating designer additives that work with Roundup, the poison that kills all plants save those that have been created through genetic engineering. ASK YOURSLF THIS: With so many billions of dollars at stake, would a multi-national pharmaceutical conglomerate allow an employee to become as visible as Mr. Walsh has become? Walsh does so with his company's blessing. That is because he has successfully infiltrated the vegetarian movement. Step one is to destroy what men of conscience say. Step two is to intimidate all other men of conscience into becomming lambs. Walsh has found a welcome home in America's vegetarian movement. Those in the know keep their thoughts private. The silence of the lambs. Walsh has been critical of everything I say and do. That criticism began one year ago, when he stalked my family and myself through a Great Britain lecture tour. Night after night, Walsh followed me to lectures, upsetting each talk by screaming " Cohen is a liar. " The first time, I carefully addressed his concern. The second time, he brought up the same issue, and I realized that he was there to disrupt and not seek truth. There is an infection in the movement. Walsh is the infiltrator. He infects all with his worm-like virus. If veganism does not work, then it is time for all of us to eat animals. Vitamin B-12 comes from animals. The insides of intestines from slaughtered animal are scraped of their feces so that the vitamin B-12 so contained can be added to supplements that work only to add cash flow to those who manufacture and dispense same. Nelson and Walsh and Norris and men and women like them would have you eat feces in the name of good nutrition. One of the great vegetarian nurtitionists, George Eisman, calls B-12 the least important on his list of 50,000 vitamins and enzymes. Those practitioners who test for B-12 do so by drawing blood. B-12 can be stored in the human body for 5 years, and it's not stored in the blood. Man's tests are often deceptive, but they do produce cash flow for those doing the testing, and those manufacturing the supplements. Do not be one of the sheep. Jack Norris is co-founder and director of Vegan Outreach, an organization whose original mission was to promote a vegan lifestyle in order to promote animal suffering. A recent vegan outreach newsletter contained information that was originally written by the vegetarian movement's great infiltrator, Steve Walsh. That information was filled with hatred and attacked an individual for his criticism of a pro-milk article that claimed that drinking milk prevented breast cancer. I was the one being attacked, for my passion to criticize the dairy industry. Did the Norris organization help animals in attacking me, or did they help those who abuse animals? There is not a conspiracy here. Just a few sheep leading the other obedient ovines to slaughter. Do not be one of those sheep. The next time a vegan speaker tells you that you need Vitamin B-12 or calcium pills, or claims that being a vegan is unhealthy unless you take animal-based supplements, give that person your most passionate " baaaaa, humbug. " Robert Cohen http://www.notmilk.com To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 plamil soya milk contains B12; www.plamilfoods.co.uk they are a vegan company. i must say that when i first became vegan, some 35yrs. ago, i did suffer from what i can only describe as involuntary tremor in my hands, it cured itself when i unfortunately reverted to being veggie for a few years (i'd never heard of B12 and that could have been the reason) i don't take any supplements other than a sprinkling of kelp on my breakfast, think this contains B12. vernon. - rzanuk <rzanuk <vegan-network > Sunday, June 30, 2002 1:19 AM Re: [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post > The Edensoy stuff looks really good. Is there anything with similar > high standards in the UK? > > Our UK/EU organic standards don't allow fortification with B12 but > setting that aside I would really like to find a company who > guaranteed a few standards for soymilk such as aluminium, nickel and > plastics free processing and slow natural methods of production. > > I have sent email to Provamel requesting info on all the issues > raised on the Edensoy site. Will post reply if and when they reply. > > Please join me in pestering manufacturers. If they don't get lots of > enquiries they don't realise that people do care. One crackpot they > can ignore. A couple of hundred enquiries gets the issue raised at > board level. > > http://www.provamel.co.uk/ > > Rosanne - who feels as if she's waging a one woman war at times. > > > > > > I get my B12 from EdenSoy Extra soymilk (organic- double-certified, > non-GMO, > > aluminum-free processing (related to Alzheimers), reduced phytic > acid, > > reduced trypsin, and more) http://www.edenfoods. > com/info/03072001.html > > > > > Can somebody please tell me the difference between 1mg, 1000 mcg > and > > > 100 ug? Saw a posting covering this somewhere but can't find it > > > again. (or how to type the funny u thing). > > > > mg is milligrams (thousandth of a gram), mcg and ug are micrograms > > (millionth of a gram) > > > > > > Jon Janssen > > > > > > > > > > To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 can you point to any confirmation of that..... So far, the sources I trust the most are mostly saying the amounts in plant foods are not reliable thanks in advance Jon Janssen http://home.talkcity.com/DharmaDr/peacefreed/morepeacefuldiet.html - " tiffany.moon " <tiffany.moon <vegan-network > Sunday, June 30, 2002 1:14 AM Re: [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post > B12 is available in raw, soaked soy beans. > > Tiffany D. Moon > *Question empiricism. > http://members.cox.net/tiffany.moon/resume.htm > > - > EBbrewpunx > ESI-List ; eco_vegans ; EthicalVegans ; HarmNone ; punkvegetarianvegansex ; stopanimalcruelty ; TFHB ; vegan-network ; ; veganhumpers ; veganmania > Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:14 AM > [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post > > > ok, i in no bleedin way want to get into the whole cohen/ et al fight.. > i admit cohen has some good points and makes valid arguments, but he has severe issues in my opinion, wotever..that is not why am i posting this > i just thought it was a good point and i think folks get tooo wrapped up in vitamins and all that sort... > besides b12(and i'm still not convinced we can't get it vegan) wot the heck do we need pills for?? > just my opnion, and i'd like to hear others opinions > as fer his claims about walsh and all, wotever, i take em with a grain of salt, he has flung accusations before..i'll wait and find out fer meself > like i said, this is just fer info and a topic > cheers > fraggle > > > The members of a doomed flock of sheep being led > to slaughter know no better than to obediently > obey the mandate of their leader. > > There is no individual plan within the mass deathwalk. > Just an innate species-specific wish to belong > to a crowd and be one with the movement. > > They walk to their deaths in a long straight line, > up a ramp, obedient to the nose following tail, > following rump following head, each ass > leading each unthinking brain, which > delivers that group to their demise by a > well-honed executioner's blade. > > What manner of sheep do I describe? Which of the > lambs and ewes march single file to their own > betrayal, ignoring their fate, the warning > signs of their screaming brothers and sisters? > The rancid bouquet of death permeates the air. > Do the sheep trust their own instincts and smell > something rotten and act by resisting? Not > at all. The message is sacrificed for the comfort > of togetherness. > > Who is that cheviot leading all to slaughter? > What Welsh Hill speckled-face ram instructs others > to obey? > > There is a sub-movement within the vegetarian and > vegan movement that becomes uglier each day. > There is a betrayal of sorts, and an intentional > method of deceit spreads from one vegetarian to > another. The message is this: > > It is unhealthy to be a vegan. It is unhealthy > to be a vegetarian. If you are a vegetarian or > vegan and do not take artificial supplements > produced in factories by pharmaceutical companies, > you will not be as healthy as a meat eater. > > The underlying theme of the message is this: > > Vegetarianism and veganism are dietary philosophies > which cannot stand on their own. One cannot > eat just fruits of the vine, vegetables from the > ground, grains, and beans, nuts and seeds and remain > whole. One must eat animals or animal byproducts to > remain healthy. > > This is the message of the leader sheep. The wolves > wearing sheep's clothing who lead and betray those > willing to sacrice their own brains and follow > blindly by swallowing that message of deceit. > > VEGNEWS > > There is a wonderful vegetarian newspaper called > VegNews. I am a r, and adore each issue. > The June edition contains magnificent information, > and entertaining columns about all things vegan. > (to call: 415-665-6397 or contact > Joe and Colleen online: subscription ) > > The June issue of VegNews contains one article > that I call the " black sheep " of all articles. > The deception is delivered by a man named > Jack Norris. Mr. Norris heads an organization > known as Vegan Action. > > Norris recently attended a nutritional conference > in Loma Linda, California. I knew about that > conference last year, and submitted a request to > present information. I was ignored. Norris writes: > > " I was disappointed that many popular vegan > advocates who speak and write on health issues > were not in attendance. It would be worthwhile > to get both researchers and advocates on the > same page... " > > Sadly, they are on the same page, and the paper > and ink for that page may very well be paid for > by the meat, milk, and pharmaceutical industries. > > Morris delivers this message to vegans and vegetarians: > > " Dr. Synnove Knutsen (Loma Linda University) > presented findings from the Adventist Health > Study looking at hip fractures in vegetarians > and meat-eaters. They found that the more animal > foods someone ate, the less likely they were to > have a hip fracture. " > > Morris struck again: > > " Dr. David DeRose made a presentation underlining > the need for vegans to supplement with vitamin B-12... " > > Morris continues: > > " Dr. Zoue Lloyd-Wright presented findings from > the Oxford section of the EPIC-Oxford study > on omega-3 levels of vegans and omnivores. > They found that omnivores had higher levels of > all omega-3 fatty acids. " > > Morris then presents additional disinformation, > presented so beautifully that who would suspect > that it is not true: > > " Hal Marlow (Loma Linda University) compared > the pesticide use required for various diets > in the state of California. Surprisingly, he > found that a vegetarian diet was associated > with more pesticides. " > > With friends like Norris, who needs enemas? > Perhaps the entire movement needs a massive > colon-cleansing. > > Where did the desire to destroy a movement begin? > Pharmaceutical companies have billions of dollars > to invest. They do so through television and > print ads. They do so by donating money to > politicians. They do so by financing phony and biased > studies. Do any of the sheep among us doubt that > they nurture industry spokespersons to deliver their > unhealthy messages? Does anybody doubt that some of > their more successful spokespersons fool some of > the people some of the time and become beloved > speakers for the movement? > > One man named Steve Walsh has accomplished the > impossible. He has deceived the owner of the > most widely-read vegetarian website on the World > Wide Web. Walsh is now presented as a learned man > of medicine. Walsh has a Ph.D in computer science, > but he is not a doctor in the way that he is being > portrayed. He is now referred to as Dr. Walsh, > nutritional expert. > > Walsh pretends to be vegan, but defends the use of > dairy products. One need only read his articles > to see the deceitful rhetoric. > > Who is Steve Walsh? Walsh is employed by one of the > largest pharmaceutical companies in Europe. Careful > research has demonstrated that his employer, ICI, is > one of the largest processors of milk protein, casein. > ICI also works closely with Monsanto, creating designer > additives that work with Roundup, the poison that kills > all plants save those that have been created through > genetic engineering. > > ASK YOURSLF THIS: > > With so many billions of dollars at stake, would a > multi-national pharmaceutical conglomerate allow an > employee to become as visible as Mr. Walsh has become? > Walsh does so with his company's blessing. That is because > he has successfully infiltrated the vegetarian movement. > Step one is to destroy what men of conscience say. Step > two is to intimidate all other men of conscience into > becomming lambs. Walsh has found a welcome home in > America's vegetarian movement. Those in the know keep > their thoughts private. The silence of the lambs. > > Walsh has been critical of everything I say and do. > That criticism began one year ago, when he stalked my > family and myself through a Great Britain lecture tour. > Night after night, Walsh followed me to lectures, > upsetting each talk by screaming " Cohen is a liar. " > The first time, I carefully addressed his concern. > The second time, he brought up the same issue, and I > realized that he was there to disrupt and not seek truth. > > There is an infection in the movement. Walsh is the > infiltrator. He infects all with his worm-like virus. > > If veganism does not work, then it is time for > all of us to eat animals. Vitamin B-12 comes > from animals. The insides of intestines from > slaughtered animal are scraped of their feces > so that the vitamin B-12 so contained can be added > to supplements that work only to add cash flow to > those who manufacture and dispense same. Nelson and > Walsh and Norris and men and women like them would > have you eat feces in the name of good nutrition. > > One of the great vegetarian nurtitionists, > George Eisman, calls B-12 the least important > on his list of 50,000 vitamins and enzymes. > > Those practitioners who test for B-12 do so by > drawing blood. B-12 can be stored in the human body > for 5 years, and it's not stored in the blood. > Man's tests are often deceptive, but they do > produce cash flow for those doing the testing, and > those manufacturing the supplements. > > Do not be one of the sheep. > > Jack Norris is co-founder and director of Vegan > Outreach, an organization whose original mission > was to promote a vegan lifestyle in order to > promote animal suffering. A recent vegan outreach > newsletter contained information that was originally > written by the vegetarian movement's great infiltrator, > Steve Walsh. That information was filled with hatred > and attacked an individual for his criticism of > a pro-milk article that claimed that drinking milk > prevented breast cancer. I was the one being > attacked, for my passion to criticize the dairy > industry. Did the Norris organization help animals > in attacking me, or did they help those > who abuse animals? > > There is not a conspiracy here. Just a few sheep > leading the other obedient ovines to slaughter. > > Do not be one of those sheep. The next time a vegan > speaker tells you that you need Vitamin B-12 > or calcium pills, or claims that being a vegan > is unhealthy unless you take animal-based > supplements, give that person your most > passionate " baaaaa, humbug. " > > Robert Cohen > http://www.notmilk.com > > To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 I'm certain that I found it in a medical article, which I found on the site below, but my searching for you has thusfar been fruitless (pun!). I've listed all of the articles currently available on this site, however. Happy hunting (no pun). http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl PS: This is an excellent site, which contains a great many resources. Please spend some time on it. Tiffany D. Moon *Question empiricism. http://members.cox.net/tiffany.moon/resume.htm - resppect vegan-network Sunday, June 30, 2002 1:09 PM Re: [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post can you point to any confirmation of that..... So far, the sources I trust the most are mostly saying the amounts in plant foods are not reliable thanks in advance Jon Janssen http://home.talkcity.com/DharmaDr/peacefreed/morepeacefuldiet.html - " tiffany.moon " <tiffany.moon <vegan-network > Sunday, June 30, 2002 1:14 AM Re: [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post > B12 is available in raw, soaked soy beans. > > Tiffany D. Moon > *Question empiricism. > http://members.cox.net/tiffany.moon/resume.htm > > - > EBbrewpunx > ESI-List ; eco_vegans ; EthicalVegans ; HarmNone ; punkvegetarianvegansex ; stopanimalcruelty ; TFHB ; vegan-network ; ; veganhumpers ; veganmania > Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:14 AM > [100% veg*n ] ok, another controversial post > > > ok, i in no bleedin way want to get into the whole cohen/ et al fight.. > i admit cohen has some good points and makes valid arguments, but he has severe issues in my opinion, wotever..that is not why am i posting this > i just thought it was a good point and i think folks get tooo wrapped up in vitamins and all that sort... > besides b12(and i'm still not convinced we can't get it vegan) wot the heck do we need pills for?? > just my opnion, and i'd like to hear others opinions > as fer his claims about walsh and all, wotever, i take em with a grain of salt, he has flung accusations before..i'll wait and find out fer meself > like i said, this is just fer info and a topic > cheers > fraggle > > > The members of a doomed flock of sheep being led > to slaughter know no better than to obediently > obey the mandate of their leader. > > There is no individual plan within the mass deathwalk. > Just an innate species-specific wish to belong > to a crowd and be one with the movement. > > They walk to their deaths in a long straight line, > up a ramp, obedient to the nose following tail, > following rump following head, each ass > leading each unthinking brain, which > delivers that group to their demise by a > well-honed executioner's blade. > > What manner of sheep do I describe? Which of the > lambs and ewes march single file to their own > betrayal, ignoring their fate, the warning > signs of their screaming brothers and sisters? > The rancid bouquet of death permeates the air. > Do the sheep trust their own instincts and smell > something rotten and act by resisting? Not > at all. The message is sacrificed for the comfort > of togetherness. > > Who is that cheviot leading all to slaughter? > What Welsh Hill speckled-face ram instructs others > to obey? > > There is a sub-movement within the vegetarian and > vegan movement that becomes uglier each day. > There is a betrayal of sorts, and an intentional > method of deceit spreads from one vegetarian to > another. The message is this: > > It is unhealthy to be a vegan. It is unhealthy > to be a vegetarian. If you are a vegetarian or > vegan and do not take artificial supplements > produced in factories by pharmaceutical companies, > you will not be as healthy as a meat eater. > > The underlying theme of the message is this: > > Vegetarianism and veganism are dietary philosophies > which cannot stand on their own. One cannot > eat just fruits of the vine, vegetables from the > ground, grains, and beans, nuts and seeds and remain > whole. One must eat animals or animal byproducts to > remain healthy. > > This is the message of the leader sheep. The wolves > wearing sheep's clothing who lead and betray those > willing to sacrice their own brains and follow > blindly by swallowing that message of deceit. > > VEGNEWS > > There is a wonderful vegetarian newspaper called > VegNews. I am a r, and adore each issue. > The June edition contains magnificent information, > and entertaining columns about all things vegan. > (to call: 415-665-6397 or contact > Joe and Colleen online: subscription ) > > The June issue of VegNews contains one article > that I call the " black sheep " of all articles. > The deception is delivered by a man named > Jack Norris. Mr. Norris heads an organization > known as Vegan Action. > > Norris recently attended a nutritional conference > in Loma Linda, California. I knew about that > conference last year, and submitted a request to > present information. I was ignored. Norris writes: > > " I was disappointed that many popular vegan > advocates who speak and write on health issues > were not in attendance. It would be worthwhile > to get both researchers and advocates on the > same page... " > > Sadly, they are on the same page, and the paper > and ink for that page may very well be paid for > by the meat, milk, and pharmaceutical industries. > > Morris delivers this message to vegans and vegetarians: > > " Dr. Synnove Knutsen (Loma Linda University) > presented findings from the Adventist Health > Study looking at hip fractures in vegetarians > and meat-eaters. They found that the more animal > foods someone ate, the less likely they were to > have a hip fracture. " > > Morris struck again: > > " Dr. David DeRose made a presentation underlining > the need for vegans to supplement with vitamin B-12... " > > Morris continues: > > " Dr. Zoue Lloyd-Wright presented findings from > the Oxford section of the EPIC-Oxford study > on omega-3 levels of vegans and omnivores. > They found that omnivores had higher levels of > all omega-3 fatty acids. " > > Morris then presents additional disinformation, > presented so beautifully that who would suspect > that it is not true: > > " Hal Marlow (Loma Linda University) compared > the pesticide use required for various diets > in the state of California. Surprisingly, he > found that a vegetarian diet was associated > with more pesticides. " > > With friends like Norris, who needs enemas? > Perhaps the entire movement needs a massive > colon-cleansing. > > Where did the desire to destroy a movement begin? > Pharmaceutical companies have billions of dollars > to invest. They do so through television and > print ads. They do so by donating money to > politicians. They do so by financing phony and biased > studies. Do any of the sheep among us doubt that > they nurture industry spokespersons to deliver their > unhealthy messages? Does anybody doubt that some of > their more successful spokespersons fool some of > the people some of the time and become beloved > speakers for the movement? > > One man named Steve Walsh has accomplished the > impossible. He has deceived the owner of the > most widely-read vegetarian website on the World > Wide Web. Walsh is now presented as a learned man > of medicine. Walsh has a Ph.D in computer science, > but he is not a doctor in the way that he is being > portrayed. He is now referred to as Dr. Walsh, > nutritional expert. > > Walsh pretends to be vegan, but defends the use of > dairy products. One need only read his articles > to see the deceitful rhetoric. > > Who is Steve Walsh? Walsh is employed by one of the > largest pharmaceutical companies in Europe. Careful > research has demonstrated that his employer, ICI, is > one of the largest processors of milk protein, casein. > ICI also works closely with Monsanto, creating designer > additives that work with Roundup, the poison that kills > all plants save those that have been created through > genetic engineering. > > ASK YOURSLF THIS: > > With so many billions of dollars at stake, would a > multi-national pharmaceutical conglomerate allow an > employee to become as visible as Mr. Walsh has become? > Walsh does so with his company's blessing. That is because > he has successfully infiltrated the vegetarian movement. > Step one is to destroy what men of conscience say. Step > two is to intimidate all other men of conscience into > becomming lambs. Walsh has found a welcome home in > America's vegetarian movement. Those in the know keep > their thoughts private. The silence of the lambs. > > Walsh has been critical of everything I say and do. > That criticism began one year ago, when he stalked my > family and myself through a Great Britain lecture tour. > Night after night, Walsh followed me to lectures, > upsetting each talk by screaming " Cohen is a liar. " > The first time, I carefully addressed his concern. > The second time, he brought up the same issue, and I > realized that he was there to disrupt and not seek truth. > > There is an infection in the movement. Walsh is the > infiltrator. He infects all with his worm-like virus. > > If veganism does not work, then it is time for > all of us to eat animals. Vitamin B-12 comes > from animals. The insides of intestines from > slaughtered animal are scraped of their feces > so that the vitamin B-12 so contained can be added > to supplements that work only to add cash flow to > those who manufacture and dispense same. Nelson and > Walsh and Norris and men and women like them would > have you eat feces in the name of good nutrition. > > One of the great vegetarian nurtitionists, > George Eisman, calls B-12 the least important > on his list of 50,000 vitamins and enzymes. > > Those practitioners who test for B-12 do so by > drawing blood. B-12 can be stored in the human body > for 5 years, and it's not stored in the blood. > Man's tests are often deceptive, but they do > produce cash flow for those doing the testing, and > those manufacturing the supplements. > > Do not be one of the sheep. > > Jack Norris is co-founder and director of Vegan > Outreach, an organization whose original mission > was to promote a vegan lifestyle in order to > promote animal suffering. A recent vegan outreach > newsletter contained information that was originally > written by the vegetarian movement's great infiltrator, > Steve Walsh. That information was filled with hatred > and attacked an individual for his criticism of > a pro-milk article that claimed that drinking milk > prevented breast cancer. I was the one being > attacked, for my passion to criticize the dairy > industry. Did the Norris organization help animals > in attacking me, or did they help those > who abuse animals? > > There is not a conspiracy here. Just a few sheep > leading the other obedient ovines to slaughter. > > Do not be one of those sheep. The next time a vegan > speaker tells you that you need Vitamin B-12 > or calcium pills, or claims that being a vegan > is unhealthy unless you take animal-based > supplements, give that person your most > passionate " baaaaa, humbug. " > > Robert Cohen > http://www.notmilk.com > > To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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