Guest guest Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 I hope all adoption groups have the ability, and will, be able to check his background to see his probation The lega system needs to see these individuals as people who need help, and require counseling and rehabilitation for them. Getting punished sort-of does something (not really at all) for what he has already been found guilty of...... but it dosn't address his problem which allows him to be able to torture animals (or whatever in him that creates a want to do it) a 5 year probation isn't a solution. He didn't torture animals for the sole reason that he didn't have a 5 year probation against owning them... and this probabtion won't 'fix' his problem/s There was a neighbor of mine who adopted a greyhound and did things I won't say what, but the poor dog died. I know him personally, and he is not a safe individual to be 'loose' and not have rehabilitation or counseling. He is friendly in other areas of his life, but he lacks empathy or sympathy, and enjoys the suffering of others. In order to change his enjoyment of others suffering, it will require for him to develop a sympathy for others.... punishment or probations haven't helped him develop sympathy. I knew another guy personally who'd abuse animals, and his causes were very clear as his father abused him harshly. One way to reduce these problems is to identify and help abused children... they need to be able to develop sympathy, if not empathy. Jon Janssen - " tiffany.moon " <tiffany.moon <Undisclosed-Recipient:;> Sunday, June 30, 2002 4:33 PM [100% veg*n ] Stop a Torturer > Pleae excuse me, if I've sent this to you twice. > > Tiffany D. Moon > *Question empiricism. > http://members.cox.net/tiffany.moon/resume.htm > > > 1. URGENT WARNING! > > ANIMAL TORTURER HAS RELOCATED TO SOUTHERN CA! > > Shon Rahrig the convited tortuer of cats and dogs in Ohio is now in Southern > trying to obtain animals from shelters and adoption events. PLEASE warn > anyone you encounter trying to place an animal about this very dangerous > person. > > > Ohio Court Case: > > Shon Rahrig, about 30 years old, allegefly adopted 6 or 7 cats and a puppy > from various local shelters and allegedly abused them horribly, broke their > limbs, put their eyes out, etc. The alleged abuse became known when his > girlfriend took one of the victims to a vet to be euthanized. In court he > " copped a plea " to avoid the nasty publicity of a jury trial, and confessed > to torturing one black and white cat, Misty. > > Outcome: > > Shon Rahrig's sentencing was well attended with representatives from many > Ohio humane groups and animal rights groups as well as the Channel 6 camera > crew. Rahrig did his best to look normal and innocuous, wore a jacket and > tie, remained impervious to the glares of the people in attendance and > leafed casually through an agenda. > > After having plead guilty to one count he tried to say " it was a lie " but > Kerri Manion presented the CAHS cruelty investigation team's findings. The > unfortunate cat really suffered and the report was very painful to listen > to. He was only sentenced to 45 days in jail, out of a maximum 90, the > last 15 may be converted to work release, by which he was free to leave > during the day but had to go back to the jail to sleep and he had to pay for > his incarceration. He had to reimburse CAHS $100 for the necropsy of the > poor victim. No counseling was mandated but remained at the discretion of > his probation officer. Probation is 5 years during which he may not " own " > any living thing and his is subject to check-up visits by the Central Ohio > Humane So. > > And NOW this man is in CALIFORNIA!. Please beware and take note. > Warn your local Shelters of this man's presence in Southern CA. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 Half of me agrees with what you say but half just wants to see people like that cast out. Don't you think some people are intrinsically evil - and that society should shun them - partly to make it clear to others what the consequences of such behaviour will be. If such people want to benefit from society in any way and have any rights - companionship, shelter, food, care, they should have to obey a few ground rules. Not petty rules open to debate but basic civilised human decencies. I would prefer a world where everybody was " good " because they wanted to be " good " rather than rules were imposed upon them but I think certain firm boundaries have to be set which nobody is allowed to cross. Total shunning is difficult - so imprisonment seems the equivalent. I don't agree with punishment imprisonment overall but where people have behaved in a subhuman way they have assented to being treated as subhumans. I'm sure that man did not inflict such terrible pain on animals becuase he didn't think or didn't know better - he must have been getting some sort of evil satisfaction from it. Rosanne > The lega system needs to see these individuals as people who need help, and > require counseling and rehabilitation for them. Getting punished sort-of > does something (not really at all) for what he has already been found guilty > of...... but it dosn't address his problem which allows him to be able to > torture animals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 - " rzanuk " <rzanuk <vegan-network > Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:24 PM Re: [100% veg*n ] Stop a Torturer > Half of me agrees with what you say but half just wants to see people > like that cast out. Don't you think some people are intrinsically > evil - and that society should shun them - partly to make it clear to > others what the consequences of such behaviour will be. > > If such people want to benefit from society in any way and have any > rights - companionship, shelter, food, care, they should have to obey > a few ground rules. Not petty rules open to debate but basic > civilised > human decencies. I would prefer a world where everybody was " good " > because they wanted to be " good " rather than rules were imposed upon > them but I think certain firm boundaries have to be set which nobody > is allowed to cross. I agree with both, wanting some people to be removed from society, and wanting others to be helped. Usually when I learn of their personal lives, I find things that they suffered from and I can develop some sympathy for them, but it differs with each situation. There are those people who grow up causing blatent harm because of brain damage, and because of deficiencies in social understanding (because of being abused, being neglected in critical ways, or others ways). I myself once wanted to hit brids with rocks, until I achieved it one time and then saw the dead bird the next day and the reality of the situation hit me (it wasn't just me having fun, the bird needed to be considered also). There's no easy category to put all abusive people into, though, but generally brain damage or lack of understanding sympathy/empathy explain. And aside from where the problems came from, there's how they think of their problems... some know they cause harm and don't mind it, others are bothered slightly, others are bothered enough to seek help. I, for instance, caused harm, but cared greatly after being made aware of the consequences, but other cause harm and when they think of it are not bothered by the harm. For the people who have some amoun of caring rehab seems like it could be beneficial, and for the people who don't want to change, removing them seems wise, imo. I say people should be able to do as they wish, but when they start causing harm- efforts should be made to physically remove their ability to cause that harm (if they can't use self-control and refuse rehab efforts) > > Total shunning is difficult - so imprisonment seems the equivalent. I > don't agree with punishment imprisonment overall but where people > have behaved in a subhuman way they have assented to being treated as > subhumans. > > I'm sure that man did not inflict such terrible pain on animals > becuase he didn't think or didn't know better - he must have been > getting some sort of evil satisfaction from it. > There's a lot about violence that is very different. I graduated in psych, and took a personal interest in learning about violence, and it's causes and contributions. Brain damage can, and has, turned a very peaceful man into a violent person who started beating his wife- it was more a lack of awareness and lack of control for him... like a knee-jerk reaction. Frontal Brain injury can cause drastic changes in regard to violence and self-control. And a person with brain damage is really no more in control of his outbursts, than an epileptic has control over seizures. Then others like the person I was friends with, his father would beat him, and torment him even when he was very young. He'd be called to the top of the stairs in the middle of the night, and then pushed down them. He grew up to deal with his pain of suffering by inflicting suffering on others. Sort of a revenge that can't be taken out on the person who caused him harm, so he lets out his feelings of anger/aggression on 'scapegoats'. Sort of how some children who are teased by older siblings will, in turn, tease younger siblings. This very abused kid grew up to be satisfied by feeding rats to his snake and shooting birds and dogs. he certainly would seem evil to many, and he didn't outwardly show any pain from his early abuse... it more seemed like he was hurting animals just out of pleasure for the heck of it. He also didn't think it was a problem and showed no interest in stopping. Trying to guess why a person is abusing animals is pretty tough without knowing the person's past, we only have our own assumptions to go on, which aren't a good substitute for the facts, even though we want to resolve our bad feelings and explain the situation. I still don't have any resolve for Bush killing our environment, but have an assumption that $ has something to do with it. Seems like we don't usually see these people personally most of the time, they're just on the news or wherever which makes it harder to get to know them and the causes. Punishment might not fix the problem for a lot of the abusers- they either have to control their emotions/urges, or develop sympathy, otherwise the punishment will only stop them as long as they'll sure they'd be caught. Follow the chain of events all the way back to the causes, and find out how to break off the causes.... and take efforts to reduce the abuse that's happening now too Jon > Rosanne > > > The lega system needs to see these individuals as people who need > help, and > > require counseling and rehabilitation for them. Getting punished > sort-of > > does something (not really at all) for what he has already been > found guilty > > of...... but it dosn't address his problem which allows him to be > able to > > torture animals > > > > > To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 ah..so, if we lock him up, then he'll just get his evil fix on wotever he can there..and build on it stick em in counseling, make em do hella community service prisons don't work for the most part...just create more criminals, harden you, etc. fraggle " rzanuk " <rzanuk wrote: >Half of me agrees with what you say but half just wants to see people >like that cast out. Don't you think some people are intrinsically >evil - and that society should shun them - partly to make it clear to >others what the consequences of such behaviour will be. > >If such people want to benefit from society in any way and have any >rights - companionship, shelter, food, care, they should have to obey >a few ground rules. Not petty rules open to debate but basic >civilised >human decencies. I would prefer a world where everybody was " good " >because they wanted to be " good " rather than rules were imposed upon >them but I think certain firm boundaries have to be set which nobody >is allowed to cross. > >Total shunning is difficult - so imprisonment seems the equivalent. I >don't agree with punishment imprisonment overall but where people >have behaved in a subhuman way they have assented to being treated as >subhumans. > >I'm sure that man did not inflict such terrible pain on animals >becuase he didn't think or didn't know better - he must have been >getting some sort of evil satisfaction from it. > >Rosanne > >> The lega system needs to see these individuals as people who need >help, and >> require counseling and rehabilitation for them. Getting punished >sort-of >> does something (not really at all) for what he has already been >found guilty >> of...... but it dosn't address his problem which allows him to be >able to >> torture animals > > > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 Thanks for the replies. What you said made sense. I'll go back to being a soft lefty now. Rosanne nobody > > is allowed to cross. > > I agree with both, wanting some people to be removed from society, and > wanting others to be helped. Usually when I learn of their personal lives, > I find things that they suffered from and I can develop some sympathy for > them, but it differs with each situation. > There are those people who grow up causing blatent harm because of brain > damage, and because of deficiencies in social understanding (because of > being abused, being neglected in critical ways, or others ways). I myself > once wanted to hit brids with rocks, until I achieved it one time and then > saw the dead bird the next day and the reality of the situation hit me (it > wasn't just me having fun, the bird needed to be considered also). > There's no easy category to put all abusive people into, though, but > generally brain damage or lack of understanding sympathy/empathy explain. > > And aside from where the problems came from, there's how they think of their > problems... some know they cause harm and don't mind it, others are bothered > slightly, others are bothered enough to seek help. I, for instance, caused > harm, but cared greatly after being made aware of the consequences, but > other cause harm and when they think of it are not bothered by the harm. > > For the people who have some amoun of caring rehab seems like it could be > beneficial, and for the people who don't want to change, removing them seems > wise, imo. I say people should be able to do as they wish, but when they > start causing harm- efforts should be made to physically remove their > ability to cause that harm (if they can't use self-control and refuse rehab > efforts) > > > > > Total shunning is difficult - so imprisonment seems the equivalent. I > > don't agree with punishment imprisonment overall but where people > > have behaved in a subhuman way they have assented to being treated as > > subhumans. > > > > I'm sure that man did not inflict such terrible pain on animals > > becuase he didn't think or didn't know better - he must have been > > getting some sort of evil satisfaction from it. > > > > There's a lot about violence that is very different. I graduated in psych, > and took a personal interest in learning about violence, and it's causes and > contributions. Brain damage can, and has, turned a very peaceful man into > a violent person who started beating his wife- it was more a lack of > awareness and lack of control for him... like a knee-jerk reaction. > Frontal Brain injury can cause drastic changes in regard to violence and > self-control. And a person with brain damage is really no more in control > of his outbursts, than an epileptic has control over seizures. > > Then others like the person I was friends with, his father would beat him, > and torment him even when he was very young. He'd be called to the top of > the stairs in the middle of the night, and then pushed down them. He grew > up to deal with his pain of suffering by inflicting suffering on others. > Sort of a revenge that can't be taken out on the person who caused him harm, > so he lets out his feelings of anger/aggression on 'scapegoats'. Sort of > how some children who are teased by older siblings will, in turn, tease > younger siblings. This very abused kid grew up to be satisfied by feeding > rats to his snake and shooting birds and dogs. he certainly would seem > evil to many, and he didn't outwardly show any pain from his early abuse... > it more seemed like he was hurting animals just out of pleasure for the heck > of it. He also didn't think it was a problem and showed no interest in > stopping. > > Trying to guess why a person is abusing animals is pretty tough without > knowing the person's past, we only have our own assumptions to go on, which > aren't a good substitute for the facts, even though we want to resolve our > bad feelings and explain the situation. I still don't have any resolve > for Bush killing our environment, but have an assumption that $ has > something to do with it. > > Seems like we don't usually see these people personally most of the time, > they're just on the news or wherever which makes it harder to get to know > them and the causes. Punishment might not fix the problem for a lot of the > abusers- they either have to control their emotions/urges, or develop > sympathy, otherwise the punishment will only stop them as long as they'll > sure they'd be caught. Follow the chain of events all the way back to the > causes, and find out how to break off the causes.... and take efforts to > reduce the abuse that's happening now too > > Jon > > > > Rosanne > > > > > The lega system needs to see these individuals as people who need > > help, and > > > require counseling and rehabilitation for them. Getting punished > > sort-of > > > does something (not really at all) for what he has already been > > found guilty > > > of...... but it dosn't address his problem which allows him to be > > able to > > > torture animals > > > > > > > > > > To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: > vegan-network-digest > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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