Guest guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 This is a very beautiful thing for me (pls everyone, remember I am only speaking for me). Shortly after I switched to vegan, a newsletter editor trashed me for being a vegan due to health reasons instead of concern for animals and the environment. No one asked me if I HAD concern for animals and the environment. As in " Well, I guess switching to a Vegan lifestyle because of health reasons is better than nothing. " On the whole, I have been treated with kindness and compassion on the lists I read now and I want you more experienced Vegans to know that. And I appreciate Peter's reassurance. Makes me feel like not giving up when I by mistake end up with foods containing egg whites or whey. What I learned really fast is that the vegan lifestyle is a process - more like a videotape rather than a snapshot. Cynthia Peter Browning [Peter.Browning1] Saturday, July 13, 2002 7:56 PM vegan-network [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental <snipped by CG, sorry if that is not allowed> >>>...I used to be very angry, very AR. I did the lot. Now I'm doing other things, making a sanctuary, talking to people, > stuff. Maybe it's just me, but I think vegans need a lot of support from each other to stay sane and last the course. And >support can be sadly lacking. In my mind there are comparisons with the Christian movement. A zillion different sects, and >ways of doing things, but a few basics in common. And when veganism starts to become Veganism, and seem horribly similar to >Jehovah's Witnesses (I have some JW friends- one was 'shunned' for eight months for sinning) I feel moved to write to let >any vegans out there who aren't of the JW type that they are not alone. LOTS OF US ARE FRIENDLY.You will not be shunned...<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 I wonder if we all haven't gone through times of wondering when we find something we thought was perfect... isn't. I agree that veganism (and most everything else) is more a path of continuous learning and improving rather than a set goal you can reach. .... no matter how many times you fall down, it's always best to get up and start walking again. Staying on the ground obviously isn't an option!... Jon - " C. Gadarian " <gadfly50 <vegan-network > Sunday, July 14, 2002 5:11 PM RE: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental > This is a very beautiful thing for me (pls everyone, remember I am only > speaking for me). Shortly after I switched to vegan, a newsletter editor > trashed me for being a vegan due to health reasons instead of concern for > animals and the environment. No one asked me if I HAD concern for animals > and the environment. As in " Well, I guess switching to a Vegan lifestyle > because of health reasons is better than nothing. " > > On the whole, I have been treated with kindness and compassion on the lists > I read now and I want you more experienced Vegans to know that. And I > appreciate Peter's reassurance. Makes me feel like not giving up when I by > mistake end up with foods containing egg whites or whey. What I learned > really fast is that the vegan lifestyle is a process - more like a videotape > rather than a snapshot. > > Cynthia > > > Peter Browning [Peter.Browning1] > Saturday, July 13, 2002 7:56 PM > vegan-network > [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental > > <snipped by CG, sorry if that is not allowed> > > >>>...I used to be very angry, very AR. I did the lot. Now I'm doing other > things, making a sanctuary, talking to people, > > stuff. Maybe it's just me, but I think vegans need a lot of support from > each other to stay sane and last the course. And > >support can be sadly lacking. In my mind there are comparisons with the > Christian movement. A zillion different sects, and > >ways of doing things, but a few basics in common. And when veganism starts > to become Veganism, and seem horribly similar to >Jehovah's Witnesses (I > have some JW friends- one was 'shunned' for eight months for sinning) I feel > moved to write to let > >any vegans out there who aren't of the JW type that they are not alone. > LOTS OF US ARE FRIENDLY.You will not be shunned...<< > > > > > > To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 Excellent Peter.. my sentiments exactly!! --- Peter Browning <Peter.Browning1 wrote: > This keeps happening on the net. Some 'perfect' > vegan makes lots of imperfect vegans feel like they > don't want to use the word " vegan " to describe > themselves anymore. Terms like strict vegetarian, > veganoid and vegarian start being invented instead. > Well,it pisses me off. > For one thing the vast silent majority of vegans > that I happen to have met are not uptight or > judgemental. It's just a vocal minority. And I think > their holy attitude might scare off vegetarians > hovering on the brink. It certainly would me. I was > lucky I suppose, When I went vegan the only ones I > encountered were spiritual/ethical vegans and they > were kind and had a good grasp on the fact that > people evolve at different times. I was a meat eater > for 15 years and a vegetarian for 7 and no amount of > emotional blackmail by a partner would've made me a > vegan. Two half wits I was harrassed by who belonged > to the " Divine Light " put me off even thinking > about becoming vegan. I thought then it was > associated with bigotry and unpleasantness and it > was a year later before I met a sane vegan (Eva > Batt) and I then went vegan within two hours. > Happily and painlessly. I stayed a happy vegan until > I got embroiled in vegan politics, and shot down by > the vegan police. Publicly and physically > threatened, I was rescued by a 'practical' vegan, > who now is married to a meat eater and also runs a > vegan factory. I remember saying " this is the worst > day of my life " . Being attacked by a couple of > vegans - my crime was defending vegetarians at a > vegan society agm. A wise old vegan (Harry Mather) > said to me " you're young, there'll be worse days " . > And of course there have been, but it still hurts > when I encounter vegans lacking compassion. Because > it's the whole lacking in compassion and empathy > thing that leads to murder and trashing. > I used to be very angry, very AR. I did the lot. Now > I'm doing other things, making a sanctuary, talking > to people, stuff. Maybe it's just me, but I think > vegans need a lot of support from each other to stay > sane and last the course. And support can be sadly > lacking. In my mind there are comparisons with the > Christian movement. A zillion different sects, and > ways of doing things, but a few basics in common. > And when veganism starts to become Veganism, and > seem horribly similar to Jehovah's Witnesses (I have > some JW friends- one was 'shunned' for eight months > for sinning) I feel moved to write to let any vegans > out there who aren't of the JW type that they are > not alone. LOTS OF US ARE FRIENDLY. You will not be > shunned... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 It seems to me that if one is going to refer to themselves as a vegan, they should at least know what the hell a vegan is. Part of being a vegan has to do with a philosophy of life. It isn't just being a strict vegetarian. There is an ethical/moral side to it. That's by definition. If someone says they're a vegetarian but they eat fish, or chicken, or say that they don't eat red meat wouldn't you say that they weren't, by definition, vegetarians? You would because that what the word means. Just so if someone says that they're a vegan, they may mean that they don't eat any animal products, but if they aren't aware that the word vegan includes, by definition, that vegans also hold animal life as dear as human life (Ahimsa) then they are wrong to call themselves vegans. If I said I was an airline pilot because I liked planes and flying but didn't really know how to fly a plane myself wouldn't you say that I was in error? Wouldn't it be more correct to say no your aren't a pilot, you are someone who likes planes and flying and maybe some day you may learn to be a pilot but right now you really aren't. Words mean things, some words mean something very specific. If you call a table a chair, you'd be wrong. If you call a strict vegetarian a vegan you'd also be wrong. It's nothing to get angry about but it causes confusion when having conversations about these subjects. Especially when in the context of a " vegan " mate who really isn't a vegan but a strict vegetarian talking about being very tolerant of their meat eating spouse. If I'm thinking that this person who calls themselves a vegan believes strongly that killing animals is wrong because they call themselves a vegan, there will be confusion in talking with them. They may not even consider the moral side of things and may think that a vegan is someone who doesn't eat animal products for health reasons only which is not what a vegan is. If we try to have a conversation when the words we use mean different things to each of us. Then chaos, anger, and confusion will ensue. Brad - dark mistress vegan-network Monday, July 15, 2002 4:52 PM Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental Excellent Peter.. my sentiments exactly!! --- Peter Browning <Peter.Browning1 wrote: > This keeps happening on the net. Some 'perfect' > vegan makes lots of imperfect vegans feel like they > don't want to use the word " vegan " to describe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 WARNING: Vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan police alert. Please stand clear, someone more holier (vegan) than thou wishes to get past. >...but if they aren't aware that the word vegan includes, by definition, >that vegans also >hold animal life as dear as human life (Ahimsa) then they are wrong to >call themselves vegans. By definition, eh? See here http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=vegan or here http://www.vegansociety.com/html/whyvegan/whyhome.html . Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Well look here http://www.americanvegan.org . - Mavreela vegan-network Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:36 AM Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental WARNING: Vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan police alert. Please stand clear, someone more holier (vegan) than thou wishes to get past. >...but if they aren't aware that the word vegan includes, by definition, >that vegans also >hold animal life as dear as human life (Ahimsa) then they are wrong to >call themselves vegans. By definition, eh? See here http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=vegan or here http://www.vegansociety.com/html/whyvegan/whyhome.html . Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 To understand what it means to be vegan, it is vital to reflect on the historical roots and origin of the word. Many people think of the term vegan and its associated lifestyle as something new, faddish, insurgent or radical. In many ways, just the opposite is true. The word vegan was coined in England by Donald Watson in 1944. He, along with several other members of the Vegetarian Society in Leicester, England, wanted to form an alliance of nondairy vegetarians as a subgroup of the Society. When their proposal was rejected, they ventured to start their own organization. They prospected what to call themselves, and, after evaluating a range of ingenious possibilities, agreed that " vegan " (decisively pronounced VEE-gn, with a long " e " and hard " g " ) was best. It was derived from the word " vegetarian " by taking the first three letters (veg) and the last two letters (an) because, as Donald Watson explained, " veganism starts with vegetarianism and carries it through to its logical conclusion. " In late 1944, The Vegan Society was established, followed shortly thereafter by the creation of a manifesto describing their unified mission and perspective. Although the group advocated a totally plant-based diet excluding flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, and animals' milk, butter and cheese, they also encouraged the manufacture and use of alternatives to animal commodities, including clothing, shoes and other apparel. In addition, the group acknowledged that the elimination of exploitation of any kind was necessary in order to bring about a more reasonable and humane society and emancipate both humans and animals. This is from the FAQ on the Vegan Society's web site http://www.veganvillage.co.uk : Why veganism? Because animals are routinely enslaved and killed for our use and greed. This is from the people who coined the term Vegan. That's where it all started. I take this as the most valid definiton. Brad - Mavreela vegan-network Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:36 AM Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental WARNING: Vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan police alert. Please stand clear, someone more holier (vegan) than thou wishes to get past. >...but if they aren't aware that the word vegan includes, by definition, >that vegans also >hold animal life as dear as human life (Ahimsa) then they are wrong to >call themselves vegans. By definition, eh? See here http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=vegan or here http://www.vegansociety.com/html/whyvegan/whyhome.html . Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 whoa there lil buckaroo i didn't realize there was a strict definition of vegan fer one, its a word..something we use to label and describe ourselves fer another thing, there are a billion reasons why folks become vegan...not just ethical moral.... kiwi2000 <kiwi2000 wrote: >It seems to me that if one is going to refer to themselves as a vegan, they should at least know what the >hell a vegan is. Part of being a vegan has to do with a philosophy of life. It isn't just being a strict vegetarian. >There is an ethical/moral side to it. That's by definition. If someone says they're a vegetarian but they eat >fish, or chicken, or say that they don't eat red meat wouldn't you say that they weren't, by definition, vegetarians? >You would because that what the word means. Just so if someone says that they're a vegan, they may mean that >they don't eat any animal products, but if they aren't aware that the word vegan includes, by definition, that vegans also >hold animal life as dear as human life (Ahimsa) then they are wrong to call themselves vegans. If I said I was an airline >pilot because I liked planes and flying but didn't really know how to fly a plane myself wouldn't you say that I was in error? >Wouldn't it be more correct to say no your aren't a pilot, you are someone who likes planes and flying and maybe some day >you may learn to be a pilot but right now you really aren't. Words mean things, some words mean something very specific. >If you call a table a chair, you'd be wrong. If you call a strict vegetarian a vegan you'd also be wrong. It's nothing to get >angry about but it causes confusion when having conversations about these subjects. Especially when >in the context of a " vegan " mate who really isn't a vegan but a strict vegetarian talking about being very tolerant of their >meat eating spouse. If I'm thinking that this person who calls themselves a vegan believes strongly that killing animals >is wrong because they call themselves a vegan, there will be confusion in talking with them. They may not even consider >the moral side of things and may think that a vegan is someone who doesn't eat animal products for health reasons only >which is not what a vegan is. If we try to have a conversation when the words we use mean different things to each of us. >Then chaos, anger, and confusion will ensue. > Brad > - > > > dark mistress > vegan-network > Monday, July 15, 2002 4:52 PM > Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental > > > Excellent Peter.. my sentiments exactly!! > > --- Peter Browning <Peter.Browning1 > wrote: > > This keeps happening on the net. Some 'perfect' > > vegan makes lots of imperfect vegans feel like they > > don't want to use the word " vegan " to describe > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 this is sorta getting silly brad, i understand yer point but, its just a word, meanings and definitions change laddy... folks are vegan fer all sorts of reasons.. and, i can take a word from our past that has totally changed in meaning.. faggot and punk readily come to mind... things change dear sir... if that is how you feel, that is yer definition of vegan, and you are more then welcome to stick with it, and spread it. on the other hand, vegan means other things to folks, under the auspices of not eatin lil critters... fraggle >This is from the people who coined the term Vegan. That's where it all started. I take this as the most valid definiton. > > Brad > > > > > - > Mavreela > vegan-network > Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:36 AM > Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental > > > WARNING: Vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan > police alert. > > Please stand clear, someone more holier (vegan) than thou wishes to get past. > > >...but if they aren't aware that the word vegan includes, by definition, > >that vegans also > >hold animal life as dear as human life (Ahimsa) then they are wrong to > >call themselves vegans. > > By definition, eh? See here http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=vegan or > here http://www.vegansociety.com/html/whyvegan/whyhome.html . > > Michael > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 >Well look here http://www.americanvegan.org . So you're offering proof there is more than one definition of vegan then? Hehe, methinks Brad as forgotten he is playing bad cop. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 >This is from the FAQ on the Vegan Society's web site >http://www.veganvillage.co.uk : Hehe. You confuse the Vegan Society with the veganvillage website which was set up by in 1997 and run by Inmar Consultants. You funny. >This is from the people who coined the term Vegan. That's where it all >started. I take this as the most valid definiton. You remember that page I mentioned before, the http://www.vegansociety.com/html/whyvegan/whyhome.html one? Look at the domain name. Go on, tell me again about whose definition is more valid. I shouldn't laugh. Really I shouldn't. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 ohh!! ooh!!! can i play the dippy sidekick!!! > >Hehe, methinks Brad as forgotten he is playing bad cop. > >Michael > > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 You can be Simon and I'll be Simon. - EBbrewpunx vegan-network Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:34 PM Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental ohh!! ooh!!! can i play the dippy sidekick!!! > >Hehe, methinks Brad as forgotten he is playing bad cop. > >Michael > > > >To to the Digest Mode [ recommended ], send an email to: vegan-network-digest > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Sweetie, You can call me: 1. apprentice Vegan 2. Vegan in training 3. Converting Vegan 4. Learning Vegan 5. Vegan in the rough 6. Kinda Vegan 7. Virgin Vegan 8. Vegan Virgin 'cause the label doesn't bother me. Changing my lifestyle for the better for myself and others does, and I will " hang " with whoever has the knowledge of how to do this. For the time being, that's here and on the other Vegan lists. Okay? Just keep helping me think, grow, and learn. Cynthia kiwi2000 [kiwi2000] Monday, July 15, 2002 6:11 PM vegan-network Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental It seems to me that if one is going to refer to themselves as a vegan, they should at least know what the hell a vegan is. Part of being a vegan has to do with a philosophy of life. It isn't just being a strict vegetarian. There is an ethical/moral side to it. That's by definition. If someone says they're a vegetarian but they eat fish, or chicken, or say that they don't eat red meat wouldn't you say that they weren't, by definition, vegetarians? You would because that what the word means. Just so if someone says that they're a vegan, they may mean that they don't eat any animal products, but if they aren't aware that the word vegan includes, by definition, that vegans also hold animal life as dear as human life (Ahimsa) then they are wrong to call themselves vegans. If I said I was an airline pilot because I liked planes and flying but didn't really know how to fly a plane myself wouldn't you say that I was in error? Wouldn't it be more correct to say no your aren't a pilot, you are someone who likes planes and flying and maybe some day you may learn to be a pilot but right now you really aren't. Words mean things, some words mean something very specific. If you call a table a chair, you'd be wrong. If you call a strict vegetarian a vegan you'd also be wrong. It's nothing to get angry about but it causes confusion when having conversations about these subjects. Especially when in the context of a " vegan " mate who really isn't a vegan but a strict vegetarian talking about being very tolerant of their meat eating spouse. If I'm thinking that this person who calls themselves a vegan believes strongly that killing animals is wrong because they call themselves a vegan, there will be confusion in talking with them. They may not even consider the moral side of things and may think that a vegan is someone who doesn't eat animal products for health reasons only which is not what a vegan is. If we try to have a conversation when the words we use mean different things to each of us. Then chaos, anger, and confusion will ensue. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 can we just call you cynthia? fraggle " C. Gadarian " <gadfly50 wrote: > >Sweetie, >You can call me: >1. apprentice Vegan >2. Vegan in training >3. Converting Vegan >4. Learning Vegan >5. Vegan in the rough >6. Kinda Vegan >7. Virgin Vegan >8. Vegan Virgin > > >'cause the label doesn't bother me. Changing my lifestyle for the better >for myself and others does, and I will " hang " with whoever has the knowledge >of how to do this. For the time being, that's here and on the other Vegan >lists. Okay? Just keep helping me think, grow, and learn. > >Cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 There are various definitions for vegan. if the meaning is determined by who first created the word, then it'd mean, " Veganism is a way of living, at least dietary, without the consumption of animal flesh or products. " http://www.vegansociety.com/html/faq/faq.htm#gen1 if the meaning is determined by how the majority of people use it, then it'd likely have the same definition from what I've heard and read - " kiwi2000 " <kiwi2000 <vegan-network > Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:48 AM Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental > Well look here http://www.americanvegan.org . > > - > Mavreela > vegan-network > Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:36 AM > Re: [100% veg*n ] Re:being judgemental > > > WARNING: Vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan police alert, vegan > police alert. > > Please stand clear, someone more holier (vegan) than thou wishes to get past. > > >...but if they aren't aware that the word vegan includes, by definition, > >that vegans also > >hold animal life as dear as human life (Ahimsa) then they are wrong to > >call themselves vegans. > > By definition, eh? See here http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=vegan or > here http://www.vegansociety.com/html/whyvegan/whyhome.html . > > Michael > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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