Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers (Monday July 09, 2007 01:35 PM) Eco-friendly pop star Moby has hit out at the organisers of the Live Earth concerts for selling meat at the events. The vegan musician's complaint echoes that of animals rights group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) who claim meat production massively damages the environment. Moby writes on his blog, " The one thing that still stuns me, though, is that almost no-one in the 'stop global warming' camp talks about the environmental ramifications of animal production. To quote a U.N. article: Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars. " At the Live Earth concerts people were eating hamburgers and hot dogs and chicken, which is akin to getting drunk at the funeral for someone who died of alcohol poisoning. " It's just depressing that some huge truths about climate change are too inconvenient. " Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. " - General Herman Goering, President of German Reichstag & Nazi Party, Commander of Luftwaffe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Soooooooo, the old slaphead does make some sense. Shame about his music though...........heh,heh. The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers (Monday July 09, 2007 01:35 PM) Eco-friendly pop star Moby has hit out at the organisers of the Live Earth concerts for selling meat at the events. The vegan musician's complaint echoes that of animals rights group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) who claim meat production massively damages the environment. Moby writes on his blog, "The one thing that still stuns me, though, is that almost no-one in the 'stop global warming' camp talks about the environmental ramifications of animal production. To quote a U.N. article: Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars."At the Live Earth concerts people were eating hamburgers and hot dogs and chicken, which is akin to getting drunk at the funeral for someone who died of alcohol poisoning."It's just depressing that some huge truths about climate change are too inconvenient. " Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. "- General Herman Goering, President of German Reichstag & Nazi Party, Commander of LuftwaffePeter H Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 This also annoys me. People at work read an article in the Guardian many months ago about meat eating and the environment, and not one of themhas cut down on the meat the eat, let alone thought of giving it up completely. Jo , fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: > > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > (Monday July 09, 2007 01:35 PM) > > > > Eco-friendly pop star Moby has hit out at the organisers of the Live Earth concerts for selling meat at the events. The vegan musician's complaint echoes that of animals rights group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) who claim meat production massively damages the environment. > > Moby writes on his blog, " The one thing that still stuns me, though, is that almost no-one in the 'stop global warming' camp talks about the environmental ramifications of animal production. To quote a U.N. article: Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars. > > " At the Live Earth concerts people were eating hamburgers and hot dogs and chicken, which is akin to getting drunk at the funeral for someone who died of alcohol poisoning. > > " It's just depressing that some huge truths about climate change are too inconvenient. > > > " Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. " > - General Herman Goering, President of German Reichstag & Nazi Party, Commander of Luftwaffe > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Jo, what can we do to begin this much needed change in the world? There are so few of us it seems that the task is ours; we can’t rely on others to get the message out. I would appreciate any ideas on how we can derail this machine of death. I can tell that the others in the group are working in their own way to achieve the goal. How can we put together a community of concerned individuals who will work to reduce the suffering of so many? Is there already such a group that I am unaware of? Don & Chloe the U2 On Behalf Of heartwerk Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:48 PM Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers HI Don What you say is very true. Jo , " Don Scott " <donscott wrote: > > It would be easier to wean sheeple off TV than to make them give up eating at the expense of others. One might call it “An Even More Inconvenient Truth.†I am no longer amazed by the caveman ideology of meat eaters. If they grew up watching the firstborn child of every home cooked for supper they would argue for that practice too. Ethics, logic and empathy are jewels rarely seen in the world today. Not being amazed does not stop me from arguing for my position. Once their arguments fall one by one like dominoes I simply point out one glaring fact: They have no valid reasons for eating meat; it is bloodlust, plain and simple. > > > > I love the quote from Herr Goering. > > > > On Behalf Of fraggle > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:31 AM > vegan chat; vegan-network > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > > > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > (Monday July 09, 2007 01:35 PM) > > Eco-friendly pop star Moby has hit out at the organisers of the Live Earth concerts for selling meat at the events. The vegan musician's complaint echoes that of animals rights group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) who claim meat production massively damages the environment. > > Moby writes on his blog, " The one thing that still stuns me, though, is that almost no-one in the 'stop global warming' camp talks about the environmental ramifications of animal production. To quote a U.N. article: Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars. > > " At the Live Earth concerts people were eating hamburgers and hot dogs and chicken, which is akin to getting drunk at the funeral for someone who died of alcohol poisoning. > > " It's just depressing that some huge truths about climate change are too inconvenient. > > " Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. " > - General Herman Goering, President of German Reichstag & Nazi Party, Commander of Luftwaffe > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 I always assumed that Buddists were vegetarians? guess I was wrrong? The valley vegan..............Don Scott <donscott wrote: I understand how you feel. We are so few. They are so many. Yet… Mohandas Gandhi was only one man. It was he who freed India from British rule. Gandhi. One non-violent man. One great soul. I am a Buddhist (Japanese sect) and Gandhi was a Hindu and I love the man like a father, a man I know only through his written words and the account of history. I will quote him throughout this reply. Even my Buddhist group does not realize that eating the flesh of the living is wrong. Our prayer includes these words: “I pray for peace throughout the world and the happiness of all living beings.†Does torturing a chicken in tiny cages, fattening them with steroids and antibiotics, plucking them while conscious, boiling them alive—does that make them happy? Are they not living beings? Our Buddha, Nichiren, was a vegetarian. Why do these secular Buddhists still eat meat? It is a problem to be solved as Gandhi said, “Whenever you have truth it must be given with love, or the message and the messenger will be rejected.†I come from a family unable to show love. Such a task seems so beyond me yet I know I must stop the suffering. I have always been one of those people who want the solution now and is unwilling to wait or work with persistence toward a goal—you know, the “all or nothing†kind of guy. Gandhi once had a woman travel for 3 days to see him. She wanted Gandhi to make her son stop eating sugar. He told her to return again the following week. When she came back he looked at her son and said, “Please stop eating sugar. It is very bad for you and worries your mother.†The child agreed. After the child left the room the mother confronted Gandhi, “Why didn’t you tell him that when I came here the last time?†To this Gandhi replied, “I had not yet given up sugar myself.†Patience, dedication, and the ability to change when needed. What I would not give for those qualities. Gandhi died before I was born but I feel his presence in his written words. He was a vegetarian, a man who spun his own cloth for his garments, a man who respected all life. The world sorely needs him back. I am listing few quotes that make me upset with myself. The first two bite into me every time I read them. When will I have the courage to stand up? Mahatma Gandhi: “Men often become what they believe themselves to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't have it in the beginning.†“The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world's problems†Margaret Meade, Anthropologist: “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.†A few more from Mahatma Gandhi: “Be the change you want to see in the world.†“Nonviolence is a weapon of the strong†“What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea.†“The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.†“The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, Politics without principles†Don & Chloe the U2 On Behalf Of heartwerkWednesday, July 11, 2007 11:51 PM Subject: Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers I don't think there is anything we can do individually or collectively. We are very much a minority at present. All we can do is tell people how we live, and hope that they will see it as good.Jo , "Don Scott" <donscott wrote:>> Jo, what can we do to begin this much needed change in the world? There are so few of us it seems that the task is ours; we can’t rely on others to get the message out.> > > > I would appreciate any ideas on how we can derail this machine of death. I can tell that the others in the group are working in their own way to achieve the goal. How can we put together a community of concerned individuals who will work to reduce the suffering of so many? Is there already such a group that I am unaware of?> > > > Don & Chloe the U2> > > > On Behalf Of heartwerk> Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:48 PM> > Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers> > > > HI Don> > What you say is very true.> > Jo> > <%40> , "Don Scott" <donscott@> wrote:> >> > It would be easier to wean sheeple off TV than to make them give up > eating at the expense of others. One might call it â€Å"An Even More > Inconvenient Truth.†I am no longer amazed by the caveman ideology > of meat eaters. If they grew up watching the firstborn child of every > home cooked for supper they would argue for that practice too. > Ethics, logic and empathy are jewels rarely seen in the world today. > Not being amazed does not stop me from arguing for my position. Once > their arguments fall one by one like dominoes I simply point out one > glaring fact: They have no valid reasons for eating meat; it is > bloodlust, plain and simple.> > > > > > > > I love the quote from Herr Goering. > > > > > > > > <%40> > [ <%40> ] On Behalf Of fraggle> > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:31 AM> > vegan chat; vegan-network> > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers> > > > > > > > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > (Monday July 09, 2007 01:35 PM) > > > > Eco-friendly pop star Moby has hit out at the organisers of the > Live Earth concerts for selling meat at the events. The vegan > musician's complaint echoes that of animals rights group People for > the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) who claim meat production > massively damages the environment. > > > > Moby writes on his blog, "The one thing that still stuns me, > though, is that almost no-one in the 'stop global warming' camp talks > about the environmental ramifications of animal production. To quote > a U.N. article: Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than > driving cars.> > > > "At the Live Earth concerts people were eating hamburgers and hot > dogs and chicken, which is akin to getting drunk at the funeral for > someone who died of alcohol poisoning.> > > > "It's just depressing that some huge truths about climate change > are too inconvenient. > > > > " Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, > nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. > But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the > policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, > whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a > parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the > people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is > easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and > denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the > country to danger. It works the same in any country. "> > - General Herman Goering, President of German Reichstag & Nazi > Party, Commander of Luftwaffe> >> Peter H Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Buddhism has 3 branches and many sects. In nearly every sect the monks are vegetarian, vegan or macrobiotic. The lay groups, on the other hand, are subject to the customs and socio-economic influences of the area where they live as well as differing Buddhist perspectives. Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin were both vegetarian due to their respect for all living things. The adherents of the various forms of Buddhism have differing views based on their culture at the time Buddhism entered their land. Overcoming social bias and enculturation remains one of the most daunting tasks of the vegan or vegetarian. To me, a humble disciple of Nichiren, the path is clearly vegan. Were I living in India where cattle are not abused or slaughtered I might be a vegetarian, not a vegan. The consumption of by-products of animals [cheese and milk] that are treated with respect is not unethical. It might not be the healthiest choice but I certainly would not need to worry about my L-Carnitine intake. Don and Chloe the U2 On Behalf Of Peter VV Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:22 AM RE: Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers I always assumed that Buddists were vegetarians? guess I was wrrong? The valley vegan.............. Don Scott <donscott wrote: I understand how you feel. We are so few. They are so many. Yet… Mohandas Gandhi was only one man. It was he who freed India from British rule. Gandhi. One non-violent man. One great soul. I am a Buddhist (Japanese sect) and Gandhi was a Hindu and I love the man like a father, a man I know only through his written words and the account of history. I will quote him throughout this reply. Even my Buddhist group does not realize that eating the flesh of the living is wrong. Our prayer includes these words: “I pray for peace throughout the world and the happiness of all living beings.†Does torturing a chicken in tiny cages, fattening them with steroids and antibiotics, plucking them while conscious, boiling them aliveâ€â€does that make them happy? Are they not living beings? Our Buddha, Nichiren, was a vegetarian. Why do these secular Buddhists still eat meat? It is a problem to be solved as Gandhi said, “Whenever you have truth it must be given with love, or the message and the messenger will be rejected.†I come from a family unable to show love. Such a task seems so beyond me yet I know I must stop the suffering. I have always been one of those people who want the solution now and is unwilling to wait or work with persistence toward a goalâ€â€you know, the “all or nothing†kind of guy. Gandhi once had a woman travel for 3 days to see him. She wanted Gandhi to make her son stop eating sugar. He told her to return again the following week. When she came back he looked at her son and said, “Please stop eating sugar. It is very bad for you and worries your mother.†The child agreed. After the child left the room the mother confronted Gandhi, “Why didn’t you tell him that when I came here the last time?†To this Gandhi replied, “I had not yet given up sugar myself.†Patience, dedication, and the ability to change when needed. What I would not give for those qualities. Gandhi died before I was born but I feel his presence in his written words. He was a vegetarian, a man who spun his own cloth for his garments, a man who respected all life. The world sorely needs him back. I am listing few quotes that make me upset with myself. The first two bite into me every time I read them. When will I have the courage to stand up? Mahatma Gandhi: “Men often become what they believe themselves to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't have it in the beginning.†“The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world's problems†Margaret Meade, Anthropologist: “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.†A few more from Mahatma Gandhi: “Be the change you want to see in the world.†“Nonviolence is a weapon of the strong†“What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea.†“The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.†“The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, Politics without principles†Don & Chloe the U2 On Behalf Of heartwerk Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:51 PM Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers I don't think there is anything we can do individually or collectively. We are very much a minority at present. All we can do is tell people how we live, and hope that they will see it as good. Jo , " Don Scott " <donscott wrote: > > Jo, what can we do to begin this much needed change in the world? There are so few of us it seems that the task is ours; we can’t rely on others to get the message out. > > > > I would appreciate any ideas on how we can derail this machine of death. I can tell that the others in the group are working in their own way to achieve the goal. How can we put together a community of concerned individuals who will work to reduce the suffering of so many? Is there already such a group that I am unaware of? > > > > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > > On Behalf Of heartwerk > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:48 PM > > Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > > > HI Don > > What you say is very true. > > Jo > > <% 40> , " Don Scott " <donscott@> wrote: > > > > It would be easier to wean sheeple off TV than to make them give up > eating at the expense of others. One might call it â€Å " An Even More > Inconvenient Truth.†I am no longer amazed by the caveman ideology > of meat eaters. If they grew up watching the firstborn child of every > home cooked for supper they would argue for that practice too. > Ethics, logic and empathy are jewels rarely seen in the world today. > Not being amazed does not stop me from arguing for my position. Once > their arguments fall one by one like dominoes I simply point out one > glaring fact: They have no valid reasons for eating meat; it is > bloodlust, plain and simple. > > > > > > > > I love the quote from Herr Goering. > > > > > > > > <% 40> > [ <% 40> ] On Behalf Of fraggle > > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:31 AM > > vegan chat; vegan-network > > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > > > > > > > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > (Monday July 09, 2007 01:35 PM) > > > > Eco-friendly pop star Moby has hit out at the organisers of the > Live Earth concerts for selling meat at the events. The vegan > musician's complaint echoes that of animals rights group People for > the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) who claim meat production > massively damages the environment. > > > > Moby writes on his blog, " The one thing that still stuns me, > though, is that almost no-one in the 'stop global warming' camp talks > about the environmental ramifications of animal production. To quote > a U.N. article: Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than > driving cars. > > > > " At the Live Earth concerts people were eating hamburgers and hot > dogs and chicken, which is akin to getting drunk at the funeral for > someone who died of alcohol poisoning. > > > > " It's just depressing that some huge truths about climate change > are too inconvenient. > > > > " Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, > nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. > But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the > policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, > whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a > parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the > people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is > easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and > denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the > country to danger. It works the same in any country. " > > - General Herman Goering, President of German Reichstag & Nazi > Party, Commander of Luftwaffe > > > Peter H  Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 i used to assume that too. but then I went to a Thai restaurant with my friend, her name is OM, she is from Thailand. She told me she is Buddhist from birth. She ordered frogs legs , Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: > > I always assumed that Buddists were vegetarians? guess I was wrrong? > > The valley vegan.............. > > Don Scott <donscott wrote: > I understand how you feel. We are so few. They are so many. Yet… > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Respect for all life doesn’t seem all that common, does it? Buddhists should know better. As Benjamin Franklin said, “A man can rationalize any action as long as he wants to do it.†On Behalf Of flower child Sunday, July 15, 2007 5:35 PM Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers i used to assume that too. but then I went to a Thai restaurant with my friend, her name is OM, she is from Thailand. She told me she is Buddhist from birth. She ordered frogs legs , Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: > > I always assumed that Buddists were vegetarians? guess I was wrrong? > > The valley vegan.............. > > Don Scott <donscott wrote: > I understand how you feel. We are so few. They are so many. Yet… > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Cattle are abused and slaughtered in India - there is a huge leather export industry, and many indians eat beef. The human workers in the tanning industry there work waist deep in noxious and highly toxic vats, with only a loincloth to " protect " them. The vats are drained into the local rivers and water supplies, contaminating both drinking water and water used for irrigation of crops. The buddhists of India and adherents to other all life respecting religions and philosophies may well not abuse these creatures, but a vast (and I do mean vast) enterprise such as the indian leather industry has no such respect, for human or animal life. --- Don Scott <donscott wrote: > Buddhism has 3 branches and many sects. In nearly > every sect the monks are vegetarian, vegan or > macrobiotic. The lay groups, on the other hand, are > subject to the customs and socio-economic influences > of the area where they live as well as differing > Buddhist perspectives. Shakyamuni Buddha and > Nichiren Daishonin were both vegetarian due to their > respect for all living things. The adherents of the > various forms of Buddhism have differing views based > on their culture at the time Buddhism entered their > land. Overcoming social bias and enculturation > remains one of the most daunting tasks of the vegan > or vegetarian. > > > > To me, a humble disciple of Nichiren, the path is > clearly vegan. Were I living in India where cattle > are not abused or slaughtered I might be a > vegetarian, not a vegan. The consumption of > by-products of animals [cheese and milk] that are > treated with respect is not unethical. It might not > be the healthiest choice but I certainly would not > need to worry about my L-Carnitine intake. > > > > Don and Chloe the U2 > > > > > On Behalf Of > Peter VV > Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:22 AM > > RE: Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > > > > I always assumed that Buddists were vegetarians? > guess I was wrrong? > > > > The valley vegan.............. > > Don Scott <donscott wrote: > > I understand how you feel. We are so few. They are > so many. Yet… > > Mohandas Gandhi was only one man. It was he who > freed India from British rule. Gandhi. One > non-violent man. One great soul. > > I am a Buddhist (Japanese sect) and Gandhi was a > Hindu and I love the man like a father, a man I know > only through his written words and the account of > history. I will quote him throughout this reply. > > Even my Buddhist group does not realize that eating > the flesh of the living is wrong. Our prayer > includes these words: “I pray for peace > throughout the world and the happiness of all living > beings.†Does torturing a chicken in tiny > cages, fattening them with steroids and antibiotics, > plucking them while conscious, boiling them > aliveâ€â€does that make them happy? Are they not > living beings? Our Buddha, Nichiren, was a > vegetarian. Why do these secular Buddhists still eat > meat? It is a problem to be solved as Gandhi said, > “Whenever you have truth it must be given with > love, or the message and the messenger will be > rejected.†I come from a family unable to show > love. Such a task seems so beyond me yet I know I > must stop the suffering. > > I have always been one of those people who want the > solution now and is unwilling to wait or work with > persistence toward a goalâ€â€you know, the > “all or nothing†kind of guy. Gandhi > once had a woman travel for 3 days to see him. She > wanted Gandhi to make her son stop eating sugar. He > told her to return again the following week. When > she came back he looked at her son and said, > “Please stop eating sugar. It is very bad for > you and worries your mother.†The child > agreed. After the child left the room the mother > confronted Gandhi, “Why didn’t you tell > him that when I came here the last time?†To > this Gandhi replied, “I had not yet given up > sugar myself.†Patience, dedication, and the > ability to change when needed. What I would not give > for those qualities. > > Gandhi died before I was born but I feel his > presence in his written words. He was a vegetarian, > a man who spun his own cloth for his garments, a man > who respected all life. The world sorely needs him > back. > > I am listing few quotes that make me upset with > myself. The first two bite into me every time I read > them. When will I have the courage to stand up? > > Mahatma Gandhi: > > “Men often become what they believe themselves > to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes > me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, > then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't > have it in the beginning.†> > “The difference between what we do and what we > are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of > the world's problems†> > Margaret Meade, Anthropologist: “Never doubt > that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens > can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing > that ever has.†> > A few more from Mahatma Gandhi: > > “Be the change you want to see in the > world.†> > “Nonviolence is a weapon of the strong†> > “What do I think of Western civilization? I > think it would be a very good idea.†> > “The best way to find yourself is to lose > yourself in the service of others.†> > “The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, > Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without > character, Commerce without morality, Science > without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, > Politics without principles†> > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > On Behalf Of > heartwerk > Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:51 PM > > Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > > I don't think there is anything we can do > individually or > collectively. We are very much a minority at > present. All we can do > is tell people how we live, and hope that they will > see it as good. > > Jo > > > <%40> , " Don Scott " > <donscott wrote: > > > > Jo, what can we do to begin this much needed > change in the world? > There are so few of us it seems that the task is > ours; we can’t > rely on others to get the message out. > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any ideas on how we can derail > this machine of > death. I can tell that the others in the group are > working in their > own way to achieve the goal. How can we put together > a community of > concerned individuals who will work to reduce the > suffering of so > many? Is there already such a group that I am > unaware of? > > > > > > > > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > > > > > > > <%40> > [ > <%40> ] On Behalf Of > heartwerk > > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:48 PM > > > <%40> > > Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Need a vacation? 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Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 i believe, but am not sure, that the cattle industry (as opposed to the dairy industry) in india is run by the 1/3 of the nation is muslim, who have no problem slaughtering and eating beef but recoil in abject horror at even the thought of touching, eating or seeing pork (or live pigs for that matter). total cognitive dissonance. very similar to western meat eaters behaving in the same way towards consuming chimps, cats, dogs, etc. as regards buddhists, there is a very small percentage of tibetan buddhists who are vegetarians, but the vast majority eat little but yak milk and meat. one of my favorite websites for " weird " value: the indian mcdonald's site: http://www.mcdonaldsindia.com/ourfood/index.html no beef or pork (so as not to offend their biggest customers, hindus and muslims), but plenty of chicken and dairy to offend vegetarians and vegans. go figure. heh.... " mcaloo tikki " ....i love it.... basically, none of the big world religions do much for animals. i think if you believe in a god (or gods, in the case of the hindus), you tend to believe he/she/it put animals here for humans to utilize. why else would they be here? blake Cattle are abused and slaughtered in India - there is a huge leather export industry, and many indians eat beef. The human workers in the tanning industry there work waist deep in noxious and highly toxic vats, with only a loincloth to " protect " them. The vats are drained into the local rivers and water supplies, contaminating both drinking water and water used for irrigation of crops. The buddhists of India and adherents to other all life respecting religions and philosophies may well not abuse these creatures, but a vast (and I do mean vast) enterprise such as the indian leather industry has no such respect, for human or animal life. --- Don Scott <donscott wrote: > Buddhism has 3 branches and many sects. In nearly > every sect the monks are vegetarian, vegan or > macrobiotic. The lay groups, on the other hand, are > subject to the customs and socio-economic influences > of the area where they live as well as differing > Buddhist perspectives. Shakyamuni Buddha and > Nichiren Daishonin were both vegetarian due to their > respect for all living things. The adherents of the > various forms of Buddhism have differing views based > on their culture at the time Buddhism entered their > land. Overcoming social bias and enculturation > remains one of the most daunting tasks of the vegan > or vegetarian. > > > > To me, a humble disciple of Nichiren, the path is > clearly vegan. Were I living in India where cattle > are not abused or slaughtered I might be a > vegetarian, not a vegan. The consumption of > by-products of animals [cheese and milk] that are > treated with respect is not unethical. It might not > be the healthiest choice but I certainly would not > need to worry about my L-Carnitine intake. > > > > Don and Chloe the U2 > > > > > On Behalf Of > Peter VV > Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:22 AM > > RE: Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > > > > I always assumed that Buddists were vegetarians? > guess I was wrrong? > > > > The valley vegan.............. > > Don Scott <donscott wrote: > > I understand how you feel. We are so few. They are > so many. Yet… > > Mohandas Gandhi was only one man. It was he who > freed India from British rule. Gandhi. One > non-violent man. One great soul. > > I am a Buddhist (Japanese sect) and Gandhi was a > Hindu and I love the man like a father, a man I know > only through his written words and the account of > history. I will quote him throughout this reply. > > Even my Buddhist group does not realize that eating > the flesh of the living is wrong. Our prayer > includes these words: “I pray for peace > throughout the world and the happiness of all living > beings.†Does torturing a chicken in tiny > cages, fattening them with steroids and antibiotics, > plucking them while conscious, boiling them > aliveâ€â*does that make them happy? Are they not > living beings? Our Buddha, Nichiren, was a > vegetarian. Why do these secular Buddhists still eat > meat? It is a problem to be solved as Gandhi said, > “Whenever you have truth it must be given with > love, or the message and the messenger will be > rejected.†I come from a family unable to show > love. Such a task seems so beyond me yet I know I > must stop the suffering. > > I have always been one of those people who want the > solution now and is unwilling to wait or work with > persistence toward a goalâ€â*you know, the > “all or nothing†kind of guy. Gandhi > once had a woman travel for 3 days to see him. She > wanted Gandhi to make her son stop eating sugar. He > told her to return again the following week. When > she came back he looked at her son and said, > “Please stop eating sugar. It is very bad for > you and worries your mother.†The child > agreed. After the child left the room the mother > confronted Gandhi, “Why didn’t you tell > him that when I came here the last time?†To > this Gandhi replied, “I had not yet given up > sugar myself.†Patience, dedication, and the > ability to change when needed. What I would not give > for those qualities. > > Gandhi died before I was born but I feel his > presence in his written words. He was a vegetarian, > a man who spun his own cloth for his garments, a man > who respected all life. The world sorely needs him > back. > > I am listing few quotes that make me upset with > myself. The first two bite into me every time I read > them. When will I have the courage to stand up? > > Mahatma Gandhi: > > “Men often become what they believe themselves > to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes > me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, > then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't > have it in the beginning.†> > “The difference between what we do and what we > are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of > the world's problems†> > Margaret Meade, Anthropologist: “Never doubt > that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens > can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing > that ever has.†> > A few more from Mahatma Gandhi: > > “Be the change you want to see in the > world.†> > “Nonviolence is a weapon of the strong†> > “What do I think of Western civilization? I > think it would be a very good idea.†> > “The best way to find yourself is to lose > yourself in the service of others.†> > “The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, > Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without > character, Commerce without morality, Science > without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, > Politics without principles†> > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > On Behalf Of > heartwerk > Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:51 PM > > Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > > I don't think there is anything we can do > individually or > collectively. We are very much a minority at > present. All we can do > is tell people how we live, and hope that they will > see it as good. > > Jo > > > <%40> , " Don Scott " > <donscott wrote: > > > > Jo, what can we do to begin this much needed > change in the world? > There are so few of us it seems that the task is > ours; we canâââ*šÂ¬Ã¢â*žÂ¢t > rely on others to get the message out. > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any ideas on how we can derail > this machine of > death. I can tell that the others in the group are > working in their > own way to achieve the goal. How can we put together > a community of > concerned individuals who will work to reduce the > suffering of so > many? Is there already such a group that I am > unaware of? > > > > > > > > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > > > > > > > <%40> > [ > <%40> ] On Behalf Of > heartwerk > > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:48 PM > > > <%40> > > Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > === message truncated === ________ Need a vacation? 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Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I did some research on the subject and I stand corrected. Some areas of India hold the cows holy but others do not. I read that animals are transported from protected areas into areas where slaughter is permitted. The other points you made are valid. Thanks Don On Behalf Of Kym Amps Monday, July 16, 2007 1:07 PM RE: Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers Cattle are abused and slaughtered in India - there is a huge leather export industry, and many indians eat beef. The human workers in the tanning industry there work waist deep in noxious and highly toxic vats, with only a loincloth to " protect " them. The vats are drained into the local rivers and water supplies, contaminating both drinking water and water used for irrigation of crops. The buddhists of India and adherents to other all life respecting religions and philosophies may well not abuse these creatures, but a vast (and I do mean vast) enterprise such as the indian leather industry has no such respect, for human or animal life. --- Don Scott <donscott wrote: > Buddhism has 3 branches and many sects. In nearly > every sect the monks are vegetarian, vegan or > macrobiotic. The lay groups, on the other hand, are > subject to the customs and socio-economic influences > of the area where they live as well as differing > Buddhist perspectives. Shakyamuni Buddha and > Nichiren Daishonin were both vegetarian due to their > respect for all living things. The adherents of the > various forms of Buddhism have differing views based > on their culture at the time Buddhism entered their > land. Overcoming social bias and enculturation > remains one of the most daunting tasks of the vegan > or vegetarian. > > > > To me, a humble disciple of Nichiren, the path is > clearly vegan. Were I living in India where cattle > are not abused or slaughtered I might be a > vegetarian, not a vegan. The consumption of > by-products of animals [cheese and milk] that are > treated with respect is not unethical. It might not > be the healthiest choice but I certainly would not > need to worry about my L-Carnitine intake. > > > > Don and Chloe the U2 > > > > > On Behalf Of > Peter VV > Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:22 AM > > RE: Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > > > > I always assumed that Buddists were vegetarians? > guess I was wrrong? > > > > The valley vegan.............. > > Don Scott <donscott wrote: > > I understand how you feel. We are so few. They are > so many. Yet… > > Mohandas Gandhi was only one man. It was he who > freed India from British rule. Gandhi. One > non-violent man. One great soul. > > I am a Buddhist (Japanese sect) and Gandhi was a > Hindu and I love the man like a father, a man I know > only through his written words and the account of > history. I will quote him throughout this reply. > > Even my Buddhist group does not realize that eating > the flesh of the living is wrong. Our prayer > includes these words: “I pray for peace > throughout the world and the happiness of all living > beings.†Does torturing a chicken in tiny > cages, fattening them with steroids and antibiotics, > plucking them while conscious, boiling them > aliveâ€â€Âdoes that make them happy? Are they not > living beings? Our Buddha, Nichiren, was a > vegetarian. Why do these secular Buddhists still eat > meat? It is a problem to be solved as Gandhi said, > “Whenever you have truth it must be given with > love, or the message and the messenger will be > rejected.†I come from a family unable to show > love. Such a task seems so beyond me yet I know I > must stop the suffering. > > I have always been one of those people who want the > solution now and is unwilling to wait or work with > persistence toward a goalâ€â€Âyou know, the > “all or nothing†kind of guy. Gandhi > once had a woman travel for 3 days to see him. She > wanted Gandhi to make her son stop eating sugar. He > told her to return again the following week. When > she came back he looked at her son and said, > “Please stop eating sugar. It is very bad for > you and worries your mother.†The child > agreed. After the child left the room the mother > confronted Gandhi, “Why didn’t you tell > him that when I came here the last time?†To > this Gandhi replied, “I had not yet given up > sugar myself.†Patience, dedication, and the > ability to change when needed. What I would not give > for those qualities. > > Gandhi died before I was born but I feel his > presence in his written words. He was a vegetarian, > a man who spun his own cloth for his garments, a man > who respected all life. The world sorely needs him > back. > > I am listing few quotes that make me upset with > myself. The first two bite into me every time I read > them. When will I have the courage to stand up? > > Mahatma Gandhi: > > “Men often become what they believe themselves > to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes > me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, > then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't > have it in the beginning.†> > “The difference between what we do and what we > are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of > the world's problems†> > Margaret Meade, Anthropologist: “Never doubt > that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens > can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing > that ever has.†> > A few more from Mahatma Gandhi: > > “Be the change you want to see in the > world.†> > “Nonviolence is a weapon of the strong†> > “What do I think of Western civilization? I > think it would be a very good idea.†> > “The best way to find yourself is to lose > yourself in the service of others.†> > “The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, > Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without > character, Commerce without morality, Science > without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, > Politics without principles†> > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > On Behalf Of > heartwerk > Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:51 PM > > Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > > I don't think there is anything we can do > individually or > collectively. We are very much a minority at > present. All we can do > is tell people how we live, and hope that they will > see it as good. > > Jo > > > <%40> , " Don Scott " > <donscott wrote: > > > > Jo, what can we do to begin this much needed > change in the world? > There are so few of us it seems that the task is > ours; we can’t > rely on others to get the message out. > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any ideas on how we can derail > this machine of > death. I can tell that the others in the group are > working in their > own way to achieve the goal. How can we put together > a community of > concerned individuals who will work to reduce the > suffering of so > many? Is there already such a group that I am > unaware of? > > > > > > > > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > > > > > > > <%40> > [ > <%40> ] On Behalf Of > heartwerk > > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:48 PM > > > <%40> > > Re: Moby hits out at Live > Earth hamburgers > === message truncated === ________ Need a vacation? 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Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I am an admirer of Ghandi, but must point out that he was vegetaria. He could have been kinder by being vegan. Jo , " Don Scott " <donscott wrote: > > I understand how you feel. We are so few. They are so many. Yet… > > > > Mohandas Gandhi was only one man. It was he who freed India from British rule. Gandhi. One non-violent man. One great soul. > > > > I am a Buddhist (Japanese sect) and Gandhi was a Hindu and I love the man like a father, a man I know only through his written words and the account of history. I will quote him throughout this reply. > > > > Even my Buddhist group does not realize that eating the flesh of the living is wrong. Our prayer includes these words: “I pray for peace throughout the world and the happiness of all living beings.†Does torturing a chicken in tiny cages, fattening them with steroids and antibiotics, plucking them while conscious, boiling them alive†" does that make them happy? Are they not living beings? Our Buddha, Nichiren, was a vegetarian. Why do these secular Buddhists still eat meat? It is a problem to be solved as Gandhi said, “Whenever you have truth it must be given with love, or the message and the messenger will be rejected.†I come from a family unable to show love. Such a task seems so beyond me yet I know I must stop the suffering. > > > > I have always been one of those people who want the solution now and is unwilling to wait or work with persistence toward a goal†" you know, the “all or nothing†kind of guy. Gandhi once had a woman travel for 3 days to see him. She wanted Gandhi to make her son stop eating sugar. He told her to return again the following week. When she came back he looked at her son and said, “Please stop eating sugar. It is very bad for you and worries your mother.†The child agreed. After the child left the room the mother confronted Gandhi, “Why didn’t you tell him that when I came here the last time?†To this Gandhi replied, “I had not yet given up sugar myself.†Patience, dedication, and the ability to change when needed. What I would not give for those qualities. > > > > Gandhi died before I was born but I feel his presence in his written words. He was a vegetarian, a man who spun his own cloth for his garments, a man who respected all life. The world sorely needs him back. > > > > I am listing few quotes that make me upset with myself. The first two bite into me every time I read them. When will I have the courage to stand up? > > > > Mahatma Gandhi: > > > > “Men often become what they believe themselves to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't have it in the beginning.†> > > > “The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world's problems†> > > > Margaret Meade, Anthropologist: “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.†> > > > A few more from Mahatma Gandhi: > > > > “Be the change you want to see in the world.†> > “Nonviolence is a weapon of the strong†> > “What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea.†> > “The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.†> > “The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, Politics without principles†> > > > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > > > > On Behalf Of heartwerk > Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:51 PM > > Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > > > I don't think there is anything we can do individually or > collectively. We are very much a minority at present. All we can do > is tell people how we live, and hope that they will see it as good. > > Jo > > <% 40> , " Don Scott " <donscott@> wrote: > > > > Jo, what can we do to begin this much needed change in the world? > There are so few of us it seems that the task is ours; we canâ €™t > rely on others to get the message out. > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any ideas on how we can derail this machine of > death. I can tell that the others in the group are working in their > own way to achieve the goal. How can we put together a community of > concerned individuals who will work to reduce the suffering of so > many? Is there already such a group that I am unaware of? > > > > > > > > Don & Chloe the U2 > > > > > > > > <% 40> > [ <% 40> ] On Behalf Of heartwerk > > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:48 PM > > <% 40> > > Re: Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > > > > > > > HI Don > > > > What you say is very true. > > > > Jo > > > > <% 40> <% > 40> , " Don Scott " <donscott@> wrote: > > > > > > It would be easier to wean sheeple off TV than to make them give > up > > eating at the expense of others. One might call it â⠂¬Å " An Even > More > > Inconvenient Truth.†I am no longer amazed by the caveman > ideology > > of meat eaters. If they grew up watching the firstborn child of > every > > home cooked for supper they would argue for that practice too. > > Ethics, logic and empathy are jewels rarely seen in the world > today. > > Not being amazed does not stop me from arguing for my position. > Once > > their arguments fall one by one like dominoes I simply point out > one > > glaring fact: They have no valid reasons for eating meat; it is > > bloodlust, plain and simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > I love the quote from Herr Goering. > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40> <% > 40> > > [ <% 40> <% > 40> ] On Behalf Of fraggle > > > Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:31 AM > > > vegan chat; vegan-network > > > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > > > > > > > > > > > Moby hits out at Live Earth hamburgers > > > (Monday July 09, 2007 01:35 PM) > > > > > > Eco-friendly pop star Moby has hit out at the organisers of the > > Live Earth concerts for selling meat at the events. The vegan > > musician's complaint echoes that of animals rights group People for > > the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) who claim meat production > > massively damages the environment. > > > > > > Moby writes on his blog, " The one thing that still stuns me, > > though, is that almost no-one in the 'stop global warming' camp > talks > > about the environmental ramifications of animal production. To > quote > > a U.N. article: Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than > > driving cars. > > > > > > " At the Live Earth concerts people were eating hamburgers and hot > > dogs and chicken, which is akin to getting drunk at the funeral for > > someone who died of alcohol poisoning. > > > > > > " It's just depressing that some huge truths about climate change > > are too inconvenient. > > > > > > " Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, > > nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. > > But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the > > policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, > > whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a > > parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the > > people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is > > easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and > > denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the > > country to danger. It works the same in any country. " > > > - General Herman Goering, President of German Reichstag & Nazi > > Party, Commander of Luftwaffe > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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