[100% veg*n ] If you were a blind vegan...........

[Guest guest]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:53 AM,

swpgh01.t21<swpgh01.t21 wrote:

>

>

> ...............would you have a guide (seeing eye ) dog?

 

I'm an autistic and physically disabled vegan, and I have a service

dog. In fact I seem to be the first person who pioneered the training

of service dogs for independent autistic adults. (When my web site,

which is currently down due to a server change, comes back up, you can

read about my service dogs there.)

 

My service dogs have all been rescue dogs. I have never purchased, nor

would I ever purchase, a dog from a breeder, nor obtain one from a

service dog program that breeds dogs for that purpose.

 

Once I adopt a rescue dog, I accept responsibility for that dog for

life, regardless of whether or not the dog works out as a service dog.

I have a dog right now that I adopted from a shelter, hoping to train

her as a service dog. But when she reached adolescence she developed

an anxiety problem and freaked out every time I took her out of the

house, which scuttled her service dog career. Six years later, she's

still with me as a pet. Another of my service dogs worked fine for a

couple of years, but developed early-onset arthritis and had to retire

at the age of four. She remained in my family as a pampered pet until

she died at age 15. Her successor as my service dog became severely

disabled himself in his old age, and I became *his* service human.

 

Since I train my own dogs, I can be sure that they're trained using

humane methods.

 

In terms of their quality of life, I think my service dogs have a more

stimulating and enjoyable life than most people's pet dogs, or even my

own pet dogs. I don't force a dog to become a service dog if the dog

seems unhappy with the demands of training or of being on the job. My

successful service dogs let me know they enjoy their work by showing

happy excitement when I pick up the working harness. Dogs and humans

co-evolved to spend their lives together as working partners, and this

is a more " natural " role for a dog than is staying home alone all day

while the human is off at work. (My pet dogs don't have to stay home

alone because they have each other for company. If I just had one pet

dog staying home alone, I would consider that a problem.)

 

Oh, and also, my dogs are all fed a vegan diet (Natural Balance

Vegetarian Formula), which keeps them in excellent health, without

requiring me to support the slaughter of animals in order to feed my

dogs.

 

So, my first conclusion is that it *is* possible for a disabled person

to employ an assistance dog, without violating my principles as a

vegan.

 

Now, the specific question of blindness and guide dogs: I am not

impressed with the way typical guide dog programs deal with their

dogs. First, most of them breed dogs. I find it ethically unacceptable

to breed more dogs, when so many dogs are being destroyed because

there aren't enough homes for them. Then, the program-bred dogs are

subjected to a training regimen that involves multiple losses and

displacements: First they're separated from their mothers and

littermates, and sent to puppy raisers for at least a year. They bond

with the puppy raisers, the same as any other dogs would bond with the

people who take care of them for such a long time starting at such a

young age. Then they are taken away from their puppy raisers and

returned to the training facility, where they're usually housed in

kennels. They aren't used to being in that sort of environment, since

they've been socialized by going everywhere with the puppy raisers.

Many dogs are " washed out " simply for being unable to cope with the

stress of moving from a super-enriched family environment into an

institutional kennel environment. The ones who make the cut, naturally

bond with their trainers who work with them for hours every day. And

then if they succeed in training, they get separated from their

trainers and sent home with yet another new person, the blind person

they're going to work for. Then, after years of living and working

with this blind person, the dogs get old and have to retire. Some

guide dog programs will allow the handler to keep the retired guide

dog as a pet, while placing a new, young dog with the person. But many

programs won't allow this. In order to be able to get a new guide dog,

the blind person has to turn in the old retired one. Hopefully the

program has a good adoption program for its retirees, but even so,

that's one more traumatic loss for the dog.

 

Knowing all this, if I were blind, I would *not* get a guide dog from

a program whose practices I found to be unacceptable.

 

It *might* be somewhat more difficult for a blind person to train

his/her own guide dog than it is for someone like me to train my own

service dog. But I know it can be done, because I've read posts from

blind people who have done it. So I would look into that.

 

It probably wouldn't be possible for *me* to do it if I were to become

blind, because I would be newly blind and still needing to adjust to

that myself, and wouldn't know enough about what I needed to be able

to train a guide dog. I would look for a private trainer to help me. I

hope I'd be able to find one.

 

Jim Sinclair jisincla

www.jimsinclair.org

http://moosepuppy.petfinder.com

[Guest guest]

sure, why not?

a seeing eye dog is just the same sort of companion a "normal" dog would be. as long as its treated with love and compassion, i don;t see the issue.

"swpgh01.t21" Jul 20, 2009 11:53 AM vegan-network [100% veg*n ] If you were a blind vegan...........

 

 

 

................would you have a guide (seeing eye ) dog?

 

 

 

 

 

"Hobbes: Do you think there's a God? Calvin: Well, SOMEBODY'S out to get me."

[Guest guest]

When people say " it's ok to use animals, if they are treated nice, "

I wonder what happened to the stance that non-human animals are not to be used

as a means to our purposes.

That they have intrisic value and rights to their own lives and it's not just

what they can do for us. 

 

They idea that if they are treated right and so called " humanely " then it's ok

for us to use them, is still speciescist.  Animals cannot give consent and if

they are put into a situation in which they have no choice in, then they are

basically slaves. (just like a human would be)

 

For years the Horse Carriage Business in NYC's central park have exploited

horses using the excuse that " we treat them very nicely "   I have campained

against them.

 

However when it comes right down to it, these gentle beings are just products

for their economic gains who have no choice in the matter, suffer from

heatstrokes, pollutions from cars, and general abuse of overweight tourist

riding them for hours on end.  These men are making 60 dollars an hour and the

horses are doing all the work.

 

No matter how nice these horses are treated, to me these horses are slaves.  A

slave has no will of their own.

I also know that horses (just like humans) love and form bonds with their family

unit. Mother, child, friends, etc.

They need hundreds of miles to run freely, and if let alone by us.. they have no

need for us whatsoever.

 

I thank you Jim Laclair for you post. It was educational and it looks like you

are doing a wonderful job with your seeing eye dogs. You are different than

other dog organizations, because you have compassion. If I were blind and I had

a seeing eye dog I would love him/her just like you.

but,  when people say it's ok to use animals as long as they are treated nicely,

it reminds me of the KFC campaing of it's ok to eat chickens as long as they are

treated nicely (beaks not cut) or " humane " killing.

 

Anouk

 

 

 

 

  " Sean capaces siempre de sentir, en lo más hondo, cualquier injusticia

realizada contra cualquiera, en cualquier parte del mundo.. "

Ernesto 'Che' Guevara.