Guest guest Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 I saw from the media that it was drowning. I understand that " braising and steaming " is the way they are cooked after slaughter. Chris Osborn - " Kirsten Conrad " <asiacat " AAPN " <aapn > Wednesday, January 07, 2004 4:39 PM Civet Extermination > According to the article, " The China Daily said the civet extermination > campaign was being carried out mainly by ``braising and steaming''. " > > Braising and steaming sounds like a terrible way to die. One would have > thought that the civets, who were farmed for human consumption, could have > been discarded in a human fashion. I can only hope that the animal's > nervous system shut down quickly. > > > > For more information on Asian animal issues, please use the search feature on the AAPN website: http://www.aapn.org/ or search the list archives at: aapn > Please feel free to send any relevant news or comments to the list at aapn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hi, doesn't this strike anybody as a 'Witch hunt' ? When I read the hate-filled comments in Chinese newspapers in regard to the Civet cats - how they felt that 'not one must be left alive' or 'Watch the civets turn to vapour'. I mean - this is scapegoating these animals who have no part in all this - never wanted to. If someone needs to be punished then surely it must be those who involved in this trade and who, despite the known health risks, keep going at it. I am sorry - I don't want to sound hysteric - but it infuriates me beyond belief to see these creatures treated with such brutality; this whole issue pursued with such ignorance ('kill them all'). When I read the term 'extermination', having been raised in Germany, what comes to my mind first and foremost is the brutal slaughter of thousands of innocents in the last century. The perpetrators of this atrocity would call their victims conveniently by the name of 'pest' and therefore justify the 'need' for this extermination. I see this mass killing of innocent 'by-standers' in China now as no different. And the mass murder of cattle and sheep in Europe during the BSE and foot and mouth outbreaks belongs in that same category. Is it just me or is it becoming increasingly common these days to pronounce death sentences for thousands of individuals as easily as snipping one's fingers ? 10.000 civet cats here, 450 calves there (precautionary BSE cull - US), a few million lab animals today (EU chemicals policy), several thousand Wapiti deer tomorrow (US precautionary cull - Foot and mouth). We are not even talking about the individual animals here anymore - y'know - as I write this I see a civet's panicky round eyes disappear below the water line in a tank where it is lowered into with its cage. I see its claws grabbing helplessly at the mesh of its cage; I see it struggle, realising it is trapped; trying to come to the surface to breathe and being brutaly pushed under again .... until finally it takes water into its lungs and the body goes into conculvions, and then rigid. This is what happens right now about 10.000 times. It makes me ill to think there is nothing I can do. I takes my sleep away at night - because I can't understand it. I should think in this Forum there are many who think like me. I'd like to know what YOU do to cope with it. I am at my wit's end. Diana Hartig - Chris Osborn Kirsten Conrad ; AAPN Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:10 PM Re: Civet Extermination I saw from the media that it was drowning. I understand that " braising and steaming " is the way they are cooked after slaughter. Chris Osborn - " Kirsten Conrad " <asiacat " AAPN " <aapn > Wednesday, January 07, 2004 4:39 PM Civet Extermination > According to the article, " The China Daily said the civet extermination > campaign was being carried out mainly by ``braising and steaming''. " > > Braising and steaming sounds like a terrible way to die. One would have > thought that the civets, who were farmed for human consumption, could have > been discarded in a human fashion. I can only hope that the animal's > nervous system shut down quickly. > > > > For more information on Asian animal issues, please use the search feature on the AAPN website: http://www.aapn.org/ or search the list archives at: aapn > Please feel free to send any relevant news or comments to the list at aapn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hi, Recently I forwarded the article about the Civet extermination to people whom I thought would help me regarding this issue, but haven't heard any response. Do you or does anybody know whether there are any humane society or similar organizations in China, which could help with this issue. Is there someone who can tell me how to contact. Diana, I am as frustrated as you are, and I hope other people are regarding these terrible killing and abuses of animals, without any regard to them. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 > I should think in this Forum there are many who think like me. I'd like to know what > YOU do to cope with it. I am at my wit's end. Thank you for letter, Diana. I think the way most of us cope with this is by making sure that we personally have done as much as we as can to change the situation. In most cases, such as this, what we can do is miniscule. But we must use our anger and distress and frustration to fuel us to make more effort to help. In this civet case you can take some comfort in the knowledge that the fate that they are now receiving is actually better than the fate that was in store for them - without this cull they would have been kept confined in miserable cages and then transported in wretched conditions to be slaughtered almost certainly in a worse manner than drowning. And we non-Chinese do not have the moral ground to shout at the Chinese for eating civets until our countries go vegan and we get rid of our slaughterhouses where the methods of death are often no better than drowning. I think the most important thing we can do is to promote vegetarianism and a more gentle lifestyle. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 If animal organisations in China can start a boycot campaign or petitions we can help them. Kala santha Vet surgeon _______________ Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Dear John, your kind comment is most appreciated. And, as you say, we here (in the West) can actually do very little to help this. And - true again - our moral ground is as shaky as that of the Chinese. That's why I cited the comparison of how the BSE crisis in Western Europe was dealt with: equally horrific. I also agree with you that the fate the civets suffer now may actually be one of lesser cruelty than that which was in store for them. They would have had to die anyway - whether it is in small numbers over a longer period or a massive cull of several thousand animals in one go. Comes to much the same. We all agree, I think, that these markets should be closed down once and for all. However, until that happens I grieve for every single life that is lost along the way. Regards, Diana - Dr John Wedderburn AAPN List Thursday, January 08, 2004 1:14 AM Re: Civet Extermination > I should think in this Forum there are many who think like me. I'd like to know what > YOU do to cope with it. I am at my wit's end. Thank you for letter, Diana. I think the way most of us cope with this is by making sure that we personally have done as much as we as can to change the situation. In most cases, such as this, what we can do is miniscule. But we must use our anger and distress and frustration to fuel us to make more effort to help. In this civet case you can take some comfort in the knowledge that the fate that they are now receiving is actually better than the fate that was in store for them - without this cull they would have been kept confined in miserable cages and then transported in wretched conditions to be slaughtered almost certainly in a worse manner than drowning. And we non-Chinese do not have the moral ground to shout at the Chinese for eating civets until our countries go vegan and we get rid of our slaughterhouses where the methods of death are often no better than drowning. I think the most important thing we can do is to promote vegetarianism and a more gentle lifestyle. John. For more information on Asian animal issues, please use the search feature on the AAPN website: http://www.aapn.org/ or search the list archives at: aapn Please feel free to send any relevant news or comments to the list at aapn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Dear Patricia, I guess when it concerns the issue of (supposed) Human health risks Animal Welfare Organisations tend to step carefully and are wary of aiming overt critisism at the perpetrators of animal abuse and cruelty in the name of protecting Human interests. For the simple fact that they may themselves become a target and be accused of putting Human and Animal interests on the same level - which is a no-go territory for most. It is generally accepted that man comes first, always. And, sad as it may be, the animals are the ones who pay the bill. Regards, Diana - PV1mail diana_h ; aapn Thursday, January 08, 2004 1:30 AM Re: Civet Extermination Hi, Recently I forwarded the article about the Civet extermination to people whom I thought would help me regarding this issue, but haven't heard any response. Do you or does anybody know whether there are any humane society or similar organizations in China, which could help with this issue. Is there someone who can tell me how to contact. Diana, I am as frustrated as you are, and I hope other people are regarding these terrible killing and abuses of animals, without any regard to them. Patricia For more information on Asian animal issues, please use the search feature on the AAPN website: http://www.aapn.org/ or search the list archives at: aapn Please feel free to send any relevant news or comments to the list at aapn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Dear AM, I fully agree with you - what happens in research labs around the world is easily on par with this Chinese civet cat madness. Perhaps you are familiar with that notorious lab in England - HLS. The less said the better. I've already had threats aimed at me for protesting. For myself, I have adopted 5 cats from shelters - and that is already stretching my financial limits. I wish to God I could do more than writing protests - but my hands, as are yours, are bound. I too rack my brain as to what I could do more, but, as always, the lobby that supports these things is too strong, and has too much money at their disposal. And in the end that's what it comes down to: money. These days, he who has the financial means has the law on his side. I couldn't care less when these people buy themselves villas on remote Caribean Islands - but when they use that money to pay for the suffering of others .. this is where, for me, it ends. Regards, Diana - GIRL FRIEND diana_h Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:08 AM Re: Civet Extermination Talking about laboratory animals....................... What can be done to help animals bred purely for the use in experiments and as a source of various tissue and fluid samples in laboratories? The reason why I ask this is I have had the experience of watching numerous guinea pigs being slaughtered every month for over a year. Anuallly, at least 1000 were culled by one person just so that the brains could be used in experiments. The rest of the carcass was disposed of. However, these poor guinea pigs were destined to have their heads bashed in anyway as they were the result of over breeding in the 'Laboratory Animal Unit' This occurs in every species of animal they breed including rabbits, mice, rats, sheeps, pigs and dogs and other animals I don't know they have. What can be done to help these poor suffering creatures?? Even though I managed to adopt five of these guinea pigs they still need our help. Regards, AM > " Diana Hartig " >To: >Re: Civet Extermination >Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:59:17 +0100 > >Hi, > >doesn't this strike anybody as a 'Witch hunt' ? >When I read the hate-filled comments in Chinese newspapers in regard to the Civet cats - how they felt that 'not one must be left alive' or 'Watch the civets turn to vapour'. >I mean - this is scapegoating these animals who have no part in all this - never wanted to. If someone needs to be punished then surely it must be those who involved in this trade and who, despite the known health risks, keep going at it. >I am sorry - I don't want to sound hysteric - but it infuriates me beyond belief to see these creatures treated with such brutality; this whole issue pursued with such ignorance ('kill them all'). >When I read the term 'extermination', having been raised in Germany, what comes to my mind first and foremost is the brutal slaughter of thousands of innocents in the last century. The perpetrators of this atrocity would call their victims conveniently by the name of 'pest' and therefore justify the 'need' for this extermination. >I see this mass killing of innocent 'by-standers' in China now as no different. And the mass murder of cattle and sheep in Europe during the BSE and foot and mouth outbreaks belongs in that same category. >Is it just me or is it becoming increasingly common these days to pronounce death sentences for thousands of individuals as easily as snipping one's fingers ? >10.000 civet cats here, 450 calves there (precautionary BSE cull - US), a few million lab animals today (EU chemicals policy), several thousand Wapiti deer tomorrow (US precautionary cull - Foot and mouth). >We are not even talking about the individual animals here anymore - y'know - as I write this I see a civet's panicky round eyes disappear below the water line in a tank where it is lowered into with its cage. I see its claws grabbing helplessly at the mesh of its cage; I see it struggle, realising it is trapped; trying to come to the surface to breathe and being brutaly pushed under again .... until finally it takes water into its lungs and the body goes into conculvions, and then rigid. >This is what happens right now about 10.000 times. >It makes me ill to think there is nothing I can do. I takes my sleep away at night - because I can't understand it. >I should think in this Forum there are many who think like me. I'd like to know what YOU do to cope with it. I am at my wit's end. > >Diana Hartig > > - > Chris Osborn > Kirsten Conrad ; AAPN > Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:10 PM > Re: Civet Extermination > > > I saw from the media that it was drowning. > > I understand that " braising and steaming " is the way they are cooked after > slaughter. > > Chris Osborn > > > - > " Kirsten Conrad " > " AAPN " > Wednesday, January 07, 2004 4:39 PM > Civet Extermination > > > > According to the article, " The China Daily said the civet extermination > > campaign was being carried out mainly by ``braising and steaming''. " > > > > Braising and steaming sounds like a terrible way to die. One would have > > thought that the civets, who were farmed for human consumption, could have > > been discarded in a human fashion. I can only hope that the animal's > > nervous system shut down quickly. > > > > > > > > For more information on Asian animal issues, please use the search feature > on the AAPN website: http://www.aapn.org/ or search the list archives at: > aapn > > Please feel free to send any relevant news or comments to the list at > aapn > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 dear Dian, i believe these animals would not die for nothing! their sacrifice will let the whole world see! let the people in the world watch and think what is life! what is ignorance! what is innocence! what is sin! trillions of eyes have been watching, i feel so sad about this and i feel so angry too! if i can ever communicate to god, i would ask him to determinate the whole world and destroy all beings at once! so no one would suffer ! i could not understand! this is a common sense, why those people have no sense at all that crovono virus are living with wild animals together for thousand years, its just that they eat wild animals so they catch the virus! cantonese people in guangzhou eat all types of animals, so they have a lot of disease from wild nature, its considered as a revenge from the nature, now, they dun get this message and in turn they are doing something more unreasonable and even more ignorant! more and more fatal diseases will be coming from the wild! this is what we called " as they sow, should they reap " . if they do not stop their eating habbits. they are attracting the same as they did to others. i just watched a true story in united states by national geographic: in a remote villege in india. young kids were killled every nite and no one knows who did this, until more than 10 kids were murdered, they called the police to investiagte, they thought it might be some insent poeple or some monster. after weeks investigation, they found that it was a gang of wolves, and they finally killed a giant female wolf, then someone came and said just few days before the first kid was murdered, some people killed baby wolves and bunt their bodies and returned them to the cave! and so the wolves revenged! from our eyes we saw that at the end of the story, both parties suffered, the ones who started the murder end in the same result, but the ones who revenge end in determination. but 4 weeks after the kiler wolves were executed, murder continue again!!!!!(must be other wolves in the group, cos thier adult wolvf was killed) this endless killing will never stop! if this is the rule of the nature, we can figure out what is gonna happen very soon! Diana Hartig <diana_h wrote: Dear AM, I fully agree with you - what happens in research labs around the world is easily on par with this Chinese civet cat madness. Perhaps you are familiar with that notorious lab in England - HLS. The less said the better. I've already had threats aimed at me for protesting. For myself, I have adopted 5 cats from shelters - and that is already stretching my financial limits. I wish to God I could do more than writing protests - but my hands, as are yours, are bound. I too rack my brain as to what I could do more, but, as always, the lobby that supports these things is too strong, and has too much money at their disposal. And in the end that's what it comes down to: money. These days, he who has the financial means has the law on his side. I couldn't care less when these people buy themselves villas on remote Caribean Islands - but when they use that money to pay for the suffering of others .. this is where, for me, it ends. Regards, Diana - GIRL FRIEND diana_h Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:08 AM Re: Civet Extermination Talking about laboratory animals....................... What can be done to help animals bred purely for the use in experiments and as a source of various tissue and fluid samples in laboratories? The reason why I ask this is I have had the experience of watching numerous guinea pigs being slaughtered every month for over a year. Anuallly, at least 1000 were culled by one person just so that the brains could be used in experiments. The rest of the carcass was disposed of. However, these poor guinea pigs were destined to have their heads bashed in anyway as they were the result of over breeding in the 'Laboratory Animal Unit' This occurs in every species of animal they breed including rabbits, mice, rats, sheeps, pigs and dogs and other animals I don't know they have. What can be done to help these poor suffering creatures?? Even though I managed to adopt five of these guinea pigs they still need our help. Regards, AM > " Diana Hartig " >To: >Re: Civet Extermination >Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:59:17 +0100 > >Hi, > >doesn't this strike anybody as a 'Witch hunt' ? >When I read the hate-filled comments in Chinese newspapers in regard to the Civet cats - how they felt that 'not one must be left alive' or 'Watch the civets turn to vapour'. >I mean - this is scapegoating these animals who have no part in all this - never wanted to. If someone needs to be punished then surely it must be those who involved in this trade and who, despite the known health risks, keep going at it. >I am sorry - I don't want to sound hysteric - but it infuriates me beyond belief to see these creatures treated with such brutality; this whole issue pursued with such ignorance ('kill them all'). >When I read the term 'extermination', having been raised in Germany, what comes to my mind first and foremost is the brutal slaughter of thousands of innocents in the last century. The perpetrators of this atrocity would call their victims conveniently by the name of 'pest' and therefore justify the 'need' for this extermination. >I see this mass killing of innocent 'by-standers' in China now as no different. And the mass murder of cattle and sheep in Europe during the BSE and foot and mouth outbreaks belongs in that same category. >Is it just me or is it becoming increasingly common these days to pronounce death sentences for thousands of individuals as easily as snipping one's fingers ? >10.000 civet cats here, 450 calves there (precautionary BSE cull - US), a few million lab animals today (EU chemicals policy), several thousand Wapiti deer tomorrow (US precautionary cull - Foot and mouth). >We are not even talking about the individual animals here anymore - y'know - as I write this I see a civet's panicky round eyes disappear below the water line in a tank where it is lowered into with its cage. I see its claws grabbing helplessly at the mesh of its cage; I see it struggle, realising it is trapped; trying to come to the surface to breathe and being brutaly pushed under again .... until finally it takes water into its lungs and the body goes into conculvions, and then rigid. >This is what happens right now about 10.000 times. >It makes me ill to think there is nothing I can do. I takes my sleep away at night - because I can't understand it. >I should think in this Forum there are many who think like me. I'd like to know what YOU do to cope with it. I am at my wit's end. > >Diana Hartig > > - > Chris Osborn > Kirsten Conrad ; AAPN > Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:10 PM > Re: Civet Extermination > > > I saw from the media that it was drowning. > > I understand that " braising and steaming " is the way they are cooked after > slaughter. > > Chris Osborn > > > - > " Kirsten Conrad " > " AAPN " > Wednesday, January 07, 2004 4:39 PM > Civet Extermination > > > > According to the article, " The China Daily said the civet extermination > > campaign was being carried out mainly by ``braising and steaming''. " > > > > Braising and steaming sounds like a terrible way to die. One would have > > thought that the civets, who were farmed for human consumption, could have > > been discarded in a human fashion. I can only hope that the animal's > > nervous system shut down quickly. > > > > > > > > For more information on Asian animal issues, please use the search feature > on the AAPN website: http://www.aapn.org/ or search the list archives at: > aapn > > Please feel free to send any relevant news or comments to the list at > aapn > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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