Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Hi all.. A group of friends of mine in Belgium, Germany and the UK had learned of a dog in need of rescue. It's a LONG story, but the dog has been rehomed successfully. The name of the original owner seemed familiar to me - and as it turns out, he's an aristocrat who hob-nobs with the wealthy and is, frankly, nobility himself. Curious about something, I ran his name through a search online, and this website appeared: http://www.limpopo-safaris.com/showpage.php? page=references_eng & ver=netsc His name is not important, but he is listed here, along with his comments and photo. It was GETTING to his name/photo that made my stomach turn.. and this is where my question lies. If any of you can assist me, I would like to identify the primate that is seen in one of the photos - shot and killed by a hunter (posing with the primate's body). I know this website is nauseating, but if any of you who are knowledgeable on African Primates, I would appreciate your help. Also, my apologies, John, as I know this is off topic (non-Asian animal related), but this is the most informative group I belong to by far, and I have always received fast responses from members. Thank you in advance if you post this message for me. My apologies to those who will - I know the pictures are heartbreaking and very disturbing... I was particularly upset over the zebra photos. It is just BEYOND me that anyone could derive pleasure from killing these beautiful animals. ~Kim Petersen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Dear Mr Petersen, If you find the limpopo website stomach churning, please have a look at the following article at the website http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_game_hunting_india.htm The animals killed are not even eaten since that is what characterises trophy hunting from subsistence hunting by some tribal communities. Best wishes and kind regards, Yours sincerely, Dangerous Big Game Hunting in India *By M. A. Rahman <kevi152* In India we have Asian elephants, rhino, water buffalo, gaur (actually the largest bovine on earth), buntang (an American bison sized wild ox), tiger, lion, leopard, brown bear, black bear and sloth bear. Among these the bears are considered a nuisance, but dangerous when surprised. The Indian Rhino is larger than the black rhino and only slightly smaller than the white rhino. There is no animal in the New World as large or as ill tempered as a male Indian elephant. There are two huge bull elephants on the Indian-Nepalese border that stand 12 foot at the shoulder and weigh 7 tons! Tigers are more cunning and far quicker than bears. Their jaws are stronger (shorter and more muscular) than that of any bear. They do not die easily; heart shots do not kill them for about 10 to 20 seconds. Man-eaters are extremely dangerous. The same may be said of leopards. The largest leopards have all been shot in India, as per the Rowland Ward record book. The Indian water buffalo is as aggressive as his African cousin and is larger. The Gaur may weigh up to 2500 pounds and is about the same size as the water buffalo. (The Australian water buffaloes are feral animals and are much smaller than their wild brethren). The gaur is not as aggressive as the buffalo by nature but when aroused he is difficult to stop. The American bison has only one pleural cavity and may therefore be killed by lung shots fired from inappropriate American calibers such as the .45-70, and its likes. In India, always use calibers that have stood the test of time. The .375 H & H, .458 Win. Mag., .458 Lott, .465 H & H, .470 NE, .505 Gibbs, 577 NE, 600NE, and the 700 Express are some of the cartridges suitable for hunting dangerous game. The .378, .416 and .460 Weatherby Magnums are not advisable. High velocity bullets will go through an elephant's skull without knocking him down if one does not strike the brain. I have deliberately not included the .416 Rigby, .425 Westley Richards and the .404 Jeffrey, as they offer no advantage over the .375 H & H and are not as accurate. The .465 H & H India has perhaps the best balance between velocity and bullet weight of all the specialist big bore rifles. It is superior to the more popular 470 NE. Unfortunately, all animals except the blue bull (a type of large antelope) and wild boar are now protected by law in India. However, rogue elephants and man-eating tigers may be hunted with a special permit. There were 3 man-eating leopards in Gharwal last year. From time to time rouge elephants have been shot in India by diplomats, most notably Mr. Harald Nestroy, who shot seven rouges in the course of one year. The gaur has now been protected in India, but you may shoot gaur in Malaysia, where it is called the sledang. The Asiatic lion is now only found in India and there are only about 400 surviving specimens. They are completely protected. The great one horned Rhino, which was once abundant in India, has now been reduced in numbers to about 1000-odd living in India and in Nepal. The floods this year have probably further reduced that number. Leopards, on the other hand, have thrived during the past 20 years and are now quite common. There are indeed too many leopards for our dwindling habitat, hence the increase in man-eaters. The Indian water Buffalo may be hunted in Malaysia, although Malay buffalo are inferior. However, the best Indian bison or gaur trophies have come from Malaysia. It is a sorry state of affairs in the subcontinent that once offered big game hunting second to none. There is, however, great potential should our old hunting block system be revived for commercial purposes as has been done in parts of Africa. There are many who realize the need of the hour: sustainable wild life management. Until then the blue bull offers good practice, for it is a tough and tenacious animal which has been known to attack when wounded (not in my experience, though). Although it may quite easily be killed by a 30-06, if hit in the liver it may run a couple of miles. A .375 bullet will stop it within 50 yards. Remember to get close; dangerous game should be shot at a maximum range of around 60 yards. Animals do not stand still and neither does the wind. Hence shots taken at 200 yards and above may quite easily strike a hand span away from the intended mark despite all precautions and care. One need only look at ballistic tables to realize what a crosswind can do. This problem is often evident whilst zeroing a scope equipped rifle at long ranges outdoors, as many readers doubtless have discovered. On 11/24/05, voices4animals <voices4animals wrote: > > Hi all.. > > A group of friends of mine in Belgium, Germany and the UK had > learned of a dog in need of rescue. It's a LONG story, but the dog > has been rehomed successfully. The name of the original owner > seemed familiar to me - and as it turns out, he's an aristocrat who > hob-nobs with the wealthy and is, frankly, nobility himself. > > Curious about something, I ran his name through a search online, and > this website appeared: > > http://www.limpopo-safaris.com/showpage.php? > page=references_eng & ver=netsc > > His name is not important, but he is listed here, along with his > comments and photo. It was GETTING to his name/photo that made my > stomach turn.. and this is where my question lies. > > If any of you can assist me, I would like to identify the primate > that is seen in one of the photos - shot and killed by a hunter > (posing with the primate's body). > > I know this website is nauseating, but if any of you who are > knowledgeable on African Primates, I would appreciate your help. > > Also, my apologies, John, as I know this is off topic (non-Asian > animal related), but this is the most informative group I belong to > by far, and I have always received fast responses from members. > > Thank you in advance if you post this message for me. > > My apologies to those who will - I know the > pictures are heartbreaking and very disturbing... I was particularly > upset over the zebra photos. It is just BEYOND me that anyone could > derive pleasure from killing these beautiful animals. > > ~Kim Petersen > > > > For more information on Asian animal issues, please use the search feature > on the AAPN website: http://www.aapn.org/ or search the list archives at: > aapn > Please feel free to send any relevant news or comments to the list at > aapn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Hi all and Kim... You know i have always had thought about this: why when any or one (let say shark or tiger or wheal) animal hurts one person all TV, Radio, Newspapers write aboutit, make discussion around it as a very serious problem. But when people globally kill animals and make a business on them noone announce it by the same TV/Radio or in public newspaper as a real tragedy not only for us but for our generation also. Why the same people who worry about nowadays modern problem of Human Trafficking, don't think that they are involved in animals trafficking. Being educated doens't mean to have a priviledge of other creatures of nature, it means to have respect for all and everything including animals. Why this cruelty accepted as a adventure but not as a crime? You know it doesnt matter if this happens in Asia or in Armenia or in Africa. Animals dont have nationality. They dont care in what country they live, they just want and have rights to live in freedom and have their own life. Noone has rights to take any life including animals. Maybe my msg is very small voice of person who really feel sorry about animals and suffer by seeing their suffers, but i think that only the combination of single words makes sentence/story and history. Separately we cant do anything when when we are together we make a power, which can turn everything. Thank you for your time. Karine Animals' Rights in Armenian Highlands - ARIAH aapn , " voices4animals " <voices4animals@g...> wrote: > > Hi all.. > > A group of friends of mine in Belgium, Germany and the UK had > learned of a dog in need of rescue. It's a LONG story, but the dog > has been rehomed successfully. The name of the original owner > seemed familiar to me - and as it turns out, he's an aristocrat who > hob-nobs with the wealthy and is, frankly, nobility himself. > > Curious about something, I ran his name through a search online, and > this website appeared: > > http://www.limpopo-safaris.com/showpage.php? > page=references_eng & ver=netsc > > His name is not important, but he is listed here, along with his > comments and photo. It was GETTING to his name/photo that made my > stomach turn.. and this is where my question lies. > > If any of you can assist me, I would like to identify the primate > that is seen in one of the photos - shot and killed by a hunter > (posing with the primate's body). > > I know this website is nauseating, but if any of you who are > knowledgeable on African Primates, I would appreciate your help. > > Also, my apologies, John, as I know this is off topic (non-Asian > animal related), but this is the most informative group I belong to > by far, and I have always received fast responses from members. > > Thank you in advance if you post this message for me. > > My apologies to those who will - I know the > pictures are heartbreaking and very disturbing... I was particularly > upset over the zebra photos. It is just BEYOND me that anyone could > derive pleasure from killing these beautiful animals. > > ~Kim Petersen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Dear Kim The website is realy nauseating and terrible especially for people like us whose job is to protect wildlife. Who will stop these people????????? Thousands of organizations spending a lot of money on " animal protection " and what!!!! nobody can explain these stupid " aristocrats " that they have NO rights killing other creatures, only for satisfying their abnormal habits!!! They are free in their actions, why????? because they are sure that nobody will punish them. Maybe it is time to change our way of protection and be more " productive " !!!!!! Yervand Shlepchyan Animals' Rights in Armenian Highlands " ARIAH " TEL: 37491 218359 37410 225416 E-MAIL: makar YEREVAN, ARMENIA aapn , " voices4animals " <voices4animals@g...> wrote: > > Hi all.. > > A group of friends of mine in Belgium, Germany and the UK had > learned of a dog in need of rescue. It's a LONG story, but the dog > has been rehomed successfully. The name of the original owner > seemed familiar to me - and as it turns out, he's an aristocrat who > hob-nobs with the wealthy and is, frankly, nobility himself. > > Curious about something, I ran his name through a search online, and > this website appeared: > > http://www.limpopo-safaris.com/showpage.php? > page=references_eng & ver=netsc > > His name is not important, but he is listed here, along with his > comments and photo. It was GETTING to his name/photo that made my > stomach turn.. and this is where my question lies. > > If any of you can assist me, I would like to identify the primate > that is seen in one of the photos - shot and killed by a hunter > (posing with the primate's body). > > I know this website is nauseating, but if any of you who are > knowledgeable on African Primates, I would appreciate your help. > > Also, my apologies, John, as I know this is off topic (non-Asian > animal related), but this is the most informative group I belong to > by far, and I have always received fast responses from members. > > Thank you in advance if you post this message for me. > > My apologies to those who will - I know the > pictures are heartbreaking and very disturbing... I was particularly > upset over the zebra photos. It is just BEYOND me that anyone could > derive pleasure from killing these beautiful animals. > > ~Kim Petersen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 Beautifully said, Karine. You are exactly right, there is power in numbers. Perhaps all of our organizations could " organize ourselves " collectively to devote 1 day a week/month to a variety of issues... For example... TOGETHER, we all devote the 1st Monday of each month to GAME/TROPHY HUNTING. The NEXT Monday could be devoted to WHALING/DRIVE FISHERIES. The NEXT Monday could be devoted to SPAY/NEUTERING issues... and the last MONDAY could be devoted to ILLEGAL WILDLIFE TRAFFICING, and so on and so forth. Other issues could be tackled on OTHER days of the week (Bear bile farming, factory farming, animal testing, etc). Perhaps this has already been done?? I've discovered that there are some international organizations that, to my surprise, don't work with other groups due to differences in philosophies. But perhaps differences can be put aside to universally tackle issues and put the " power in numbers " theory to work? ~Kim P. aapn , " kara_pog " <ermarkar@h...> wrote: > > Hi all and Kim... > > You know i have always had thought about this: why when any or one > (let say shark or tiger or wheal) animal hurts one person all TV, > Radio, Newspapers write aboutit, make discussion around it as a very > serious problem. But when people globally kill animals and make a > business on them noone announce it by the same TV/Radio or in public > newspaper as a real tragedy not only for us but for our generation > also. > > Why the same people who worry about nowadays modern problem of Human > Trafficking, don't think that they are involved in animals > trafficking. Being educated doens't mean to have a priviledge of > other creatures of nature, it means to have respect for all and > everything including animals. Why this cruelty accepted as a > adventure but not as a crime? > > You know it doesnt matter if this happens in Asia or in Armenia or in > Africa. Animals dont have nationality. They dont care in what country > they live, they just want and have rights to live in freedom and have > their own life. Noone has rights to take any life including animals. > > Maybe my msg is very small voice of person who really feel sorry > about animals and suffer by seeing their suffers, but i think that > only the combination of single words makes sentence/story and > history. > > Separately we cant do anything when when we are together we make a > power, which can turn everything. > > Thank you for your time. > > Karine > Animals' Rights in Armenian Highlands - ARIAH > > > aapn , " voices4animals " <voices4animals@g...> > wrote: > > > > Hi all.. > > > > A group of friends of mine in Belgium, Germany and the UK had > > learned of a dog in need of rescue. It's a LONG story, but the dog > > has been rehomed successfully. The name of the original owner > > seemed familiar to me - and as it turns out, he's an aristocrat who > > hob-nobs with the wealthy and is, frankly, nobility himself. > > > > Curious about something, I ran his name through a search online, > and > > this website appeared: > > > > http://www.limpopo-safaris.com/showpage.php? > > page=references_eng & ver=netsc > > > > His name is not important, but he is listed here, along with his > > comments and photo. It was GETTING to his name/photo that made my > > stomach turn.. and this is where my question lies. > > > > If any of you can assist me, I would like to identify the primate > > that is seen in one of the photos - shot and killed by a hunter > > (posing with the primate's body). > > > > I know this website is nauseating, but if any of you who are > > knowledgeable on African Primates, I would appreciate your help. > > > > Also, my apologies, John, as I know this is off topic (non-Asian > > animal related), but this is the most informative group I belong to > > by far, and I have always received fast responses from members. > > > > Thank you in advance if you post this message for me. > > > > My apologies to those who will - I know the > > pictures are heartbreaking and very disturbing... I was > particularly > > upset over the zebra photos. It is just BEYOND me that anyone could > > derive pleasure from killing these beautiful animals. > > > > ~Kim Petersen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 Dear , Thank you for your response.. this (and the other sites I've been directed to) are stomach churning, to say the VERY least. The person I was " looking into " when I stumbled upon the site I found is an extremely wealthy man.. how sad that this is what he spends his money on when there are people (and animals) who suffer. He couldn't take care of his OWN dog (which is how I came to know of him), so it shouldn't come as any surprise that he lacks the brain capacity for compassion. ~Kim *Please don't feel bad, , but I'm a " Mrs. " ) Kim is a name used by both men and women, so this mistake happens often and I'm used to it! LOL! aapn , <journalistandanimals@g...> wrote: > > Dear Mr Petersen, > If you find the limpopo website stomach churning, > please have a look at the following article at the website > http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_game_hunting_india.htm > The animals killed are not even eaten since that is what characterises > trophy hunting from subsistence hunting by some tribal communities. > Best wishes and kind regards, > > Yours sincerely, > > > Dangerous Big Game Hunting in India > > *By M. A. Rahman <kevi152@o...>* > > In India we have Asian elephants, rhino, water buffalo, gaur (actually the > largest bovine on earth), buntang (an American bison sized wild ox), tiger, > lion, leopard, brown bear, black bear and sloth bear. Among these the bears > are considered a nuisance, but dangerous when surprised. > > The Indian Rhino is larger than the black rhino and only slightly smaller > than the white rhino. There is no animal in the New World as large or as ill > tempered as a male Indian elephant. There are two huge bull elephants on the > Indian-Nepalese border that stand 12 foot at the shoulder and weigh 7 tons! > > Tigers are more cunning and far quicker than bears. Their jaws are stronger > (shorter and more muscular) than that of any bear. They do not die easily; > heart shots do not kill them for about 10 to 20 seconds. Man- eaters are > extremely dangerous. The same may be said of leopards. The largest leopards > have all been shot in India, as per the Rowland Ward record book. > > The Indian water buffalo is as aggressive as his African cousin and is > larger. The Gaur may weigh up to 2500 pounds and is about the same size as > the water buffalo. (The Australian water buffaloes are feral animals and are > much smaller than their wild brethren). The gaur is not as aggressive as the > buffalo by nature but when aroused he is difficult to stop. > > The American bison has only one pleural cavity and may therefore be killed > by lung shots fired from inappropriate American calibers such as the .45-70, > and its likes. In India, always use calibers that have stood the test of > time. The .375 H & H, .458 Win. Mag., .458 Lott, .465 H & H, .470 NE, .505 > Gibbs, 577 NE, 600NE, and the 700 Express are some of the cartridges > suitable for hunting dangerous game. > > The .378, .416 and .460 Weatherby Magnums are not advisable. High velocity > bullets will go through an elephant's skull without knocking him down if one > does not strike the brain. > > I have deliberately not included the .416 Rigby, .425 Westley Richards and > the .404 Jeffrey, as they offer no advantage over the .375 H & H and are not > as accurate. The .465 H & H India has perhaps the best balance between > velocity and bullet weight of all the specialist big bore rifles. It is > superior to the more popular 470 NE. > > Unfortunately, all animals except the blue bull (a type of large antelope) > and wild boar are now protected by law in India. However, rogue elephants > and man-eating tigers may be hunted with a special permit. There were 3 > man-eating leopards in Gharwal last year. From time to time rouge elephants > have been shot in India by diplomats, most notably Mr. Harald Nestroy, who > shot seven rouges in the course of one year. > > The gaur has now been protected in India, but you may shoot gaur in > Malaysia, where it is called the sledang. The Asiatic lion is now only found > in India and there are only about 400 surviving specimens. They are > completely protected. > > The great one horned Rhino, which was once abundant in India, has now been > reduced in numbers to about 1000-odd living in India and in Nepal. The > floods this year have probably further reduced that number. > > Leopards, on the other hand, have thrived during the past 20 years and are > now quite common. There are indeed too many leopards for our dwindling > habitat, hence the increase in man-eaters. > > The Indian water Buffalo may be hunted in Malaysia, although Malay buffalo > are inferior. However, the best Indian bison or gaur trophies have come from > Malaysia. > > It is a sorry state of affairs in the subcontinent that once offered big > game hunting second to none. There is, however, great potential should our > old hunting block system be revived for commercial purposes as has been done > in parts of Africa. > > There are many who realize the need of the hour: sustainable wild life > management. Until then the blue bull offers good practice, for it is a tough > and tenacious animal which has been known to attack when wounded (not in my > experience, though). Although it may quite easily be killed by a 30-06, if > hit in the liver it may run a couple of miles. A .375 bullet will stop it > within 50 yards. > > Remember to get close; dangerous game should be shot at a maximum range of > around 60 yards. Animals do not stand still and neither does the wind. Hence > shots taken at 200 yards and above may quite easily strike a hand span away > from the intended mark despite all precautions and care. One need only look > at ballistic tables to realize what a crosswind can do. This problem is > often evident whilst zeroing a scope equipped rifle at long ranges outdoors, > as many readers doubtless have discovered. > > > > On 11/24/05, voices4animals <voices4animals@g...> wrote: > > > > Hi all.. > > > > A group of friends of mine in Belgium, Germany and the UK had > > learned of a dog in need of rescue. It's a LONG story, but the dog > > has been rehomed successfully. The name of the original owner > > seemed familiar to me - and as it turns out, he's an aristocrat who > > hob-nobs with the wealthy and is, frankly, nobility himself. > > > > Curious about something, I ran his name through a search online, and > > this website appeared: > > > > http://www.limpopo-safaris.com/showpage.php? > > page=references_eng & ver=netsc > > > > His name is not important, but he is listed here, along with his > > comments and photo. It was GETTING to his name/photo that made my > > stomach turn.. and this is where my question lies. > > > > If any of you can assist me, I would like to identify the primate > > that is seen in one of the photos - shot and killed by a hunter > > (posing with the primate's body). > > > > I know this website is nauseating, but if any of you who are > > knowledgeable on African Primates, I would appreciate your help. > > > > Also, my apologies, John, as I know this is off topic (non-Asian > > animal related), but this is the most informative group I belong to > > by far, and I have always received fast responses from members. > > > > Thank you in advance if you post this message for me. > > > > My apologies to those who will - I know the > > pictures are heartbreaking and very disturbing... I was particularly > > upset over the zebra photos. It is just BEYOND me that anyone could > > derive pleasure from killing these beautiful animals. > > > > ~Kim Petersen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information on Asian animal issues, please use the search feature > > on the AAPN website: http://www.aapn.org/ or search the list archives at: > > aapn > > Please feel free to send any relevant news or comments to the list at > > aapn > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 What's most sickening is that this is how the world's wealthiest get their kicks. I wonder how much they paid for their " expedition " ? Think of what all that money could have been used on. THAT is also a nauseating thought. I had no idea that this form of hunting was still popular. There has to be SOME animal welfare group out there who works to stop this?! One thing to note is that the pictures and information are PUBLIC information now. Perhaps these rich men stand to lose some form of financial support (stock in their companies, boycotting their associate companies, etc) if their hobby was made public???? While we may not be equal with them financially, the power of the interent is available to ALL of us, rich or poor. ~Kim aapn , " eaaykm2004 " <eaaykm2004> wrote: > > > Dear Kim > > The website is realy nauseating and terrible especially for people > like us whose job is to protect wildlife. Who will stop these > people????????? Thousands of organizations spending a lot of money > on " animal protection " and what!!!! nobody can explain these > stupid " aristocrats " that they have NO rights killing other > creatures, only for satisfying their abnormal habits!!! > They are free in their actions, why????? because they are sure that > nobody will punish them. > Maybe it is time to change our way of protection and be > more " productive " !!!!!! > > Yervand Shlepchyan > Animals' Rights in Armenian Highlands " ARIAH " > TEL: 37491 218359 > 37410 225416 > E-MAIL: makar@x... > YEREVAN, ARMENIA > > > aapn , " voices4animals " <voices4animals@g...> > wrote: > > > > Hi all.. > > > > A group of friends of mine in Belgium, Germany and the UK had > > learned of a dog in need of rescue. It's a LONG story, but the > dog > > has been rehomed successfully. The name of the original owner > > seemed familiar to me - and as it turns out, he's an aristocrat > who > > hob-nobs with the wealthy and is, frankly, nobility himself. > > > > Curious about something, I ran his name through a search online, > and > > this website appeared: > > > > http://www.limpopo-safaris.com/showpage.php? > > page=references_eng & ver=netsc > > > > His name is not important, but he is listed here, along with his > > comments and photo. It was GETTING to his name/photo that made my > > stomach turn.. and this is where my question lies. > > > > If any of you can assist me, I would like to identify the primate > > that is seen in one of the photos - shot and killed by a hunter > > (posing with the primate's body). > > > > I know this website is nauseating, but if any of you who are > > knowledgeable on African Primates, I would appreciate your help. > > > > Also, my apologies, John, as I know this is off topic (non-Asian > > animal related), but this is the most informative group I belong > to > > by far, and I have always received fast responses from members. > > > > Thank you in advance if you post this message for me. > > > > My apologies to those who will - I know the > > pictures are heartbreaking and very disturbing... I was > particularly > > upset over the zebra photos. It is just BEYOND me that anyone > could > > derive pleasure from killing these beautiful animals. > > > > ~Kim Petersen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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