Fasts and transitions.

January 3, 2001

Hello. I'm a lurker who decided to pop in

and actually join the club for right now.

Actually, I decided to do a fast too starting new years,

and may be trying to go salubrious raw after it. I

really am not sure where I am going at the moment.

My main motivation is a serious back problem. With

another medical problem it had been reccommended that I

do a diet, but now this round it is required (as

much as they are able to force something anyway). Raw

food sounds a lot better then some of the bland and

very icky cooked food form the doctor's diet, is

something I believe in, and is something smiled upon quite

a bit by a group I am very seriously on the verge

of joining. However, even with all this, I'm

a bit scared of it. The main reason of the

fast before either diet is to help me by making me

feel like I'm getting stuff added in instead of taken

away. I have done them for religious stuff before I

left Christianity, but that was always an any liquid

thing. So I basically lived on pop! This time I'm trying

only water. But even the fast is kind of

scaring me. Today I was having a lot of leg cramps and

could barely walk for a bit. This more than anything

else about sent me grabbing for junk food. Having a

parent in the medical profession, I had access and

checked my blood sugar this morning, with was actually

about normal, so I figure I probably am ok, but I think

just the whole prospect of this and lack of experience

with it is scaring me into thinking that I am not.

Also, I know that this suddenly is not how it is

reccommended to switch on to either diet. I know I should

probably toss some vegan steps in there, but really I

think I would never actually do it if I didn't. But I'm

still scared of the effects. What do you guys

think? Am I ok on this?

January 3, 2001

I think a fast is good. The toxins in you will

make you crave more of the same toxins. A water fast

is the hardest, and a juice fast, with both fruit

and veggie juices, may be more detoxifying. Wheat

grass, celerry, juice or any juice containing

chlorophyll is very detoxifying. You can stay on a juice fast

for a long time while still getting nutrition. Or you

could do the Master Cleanser fast, from the book The

Master Cleanser by Stanley Burroughs, is good. Stay away

from caffiene. I was having 1/2 cup of decaffinated

coffee every sunday, and had to stop because of joint

pain (at one time I was a coffee junkie), I must be

sensitive to it. Don,t over do it. If you release to

much toxin in to your blood, to fast, you could become

very sick. Your liver can only handle so much toxins.

I think the Master Cleanser fast is the most gentle

and very effective. Good luck, happy New Year,

and welcome Doug

January 3, 2001

The only real direct info that I'm following is a

page from the group which suggests going with water.

Doesn't say much about juice benefits except saying it is

a diet and not per-se a fast. Only types of

juice I would really have around would be apple, grape

or orange anyway.... The page

(actually a scanned in chapter of one of their books):

<a href=http://www.creator.org/holybooks/credo09.html

target=new>http://www.creator.org/holybooks/credo09.html</a> Or if ya

want more context here is the table of

contents for it: <a href=http://www.creator.org/holybooks/wmb.htm

target=new>http://www.creator.org/holybooks/wmb.htm</a>

January 3, 2001

Angel, Your post makes it clear that you

are “scared” and fearful of doing a fast. Your fear

is based on lack of knowledge on fasting. I

think you would benefit from doing a fast BUT…. YOU

HAVE TO EDUCATE YOURSELF ON FASTS BEFORE DOING ONE.

The first golden rule is to not do a fast if you have

any worries about it. You need to educate yourself

about fasting BEFORE doing it or else you need to go to

one of these fasting centers and be guided by a

professional. So hold off on that fast for now. With out the

education or guidance you will just worry about what is

going on with your body and be badgered by your loved

ones to quit your fast before you die. You need

to know when to fast, how to start it, what to do

and not do during the fast, what to expect during the

fast, when to end it and how to end it. Can you answer

these simple questions? Then don't do a fast

yet! I’m sure others know of good fasting books but here

is my best suggestion: “Fasting can Save Your

Life” by Herbert M. Shelton ISBN:

0-91453-2421 If you hurry you can get a copy for $1.45 at

<a href=http://www.half.com target=new>http://www.half.com</a> -OrionsDad

January 3, 2001

Hi Hatred Angel and welcome to the club. A fast

isn't anything to fear if you follow a few simple

guidelines. For your first fast, I'd suggest a few days of

fruit/veggie juice and water. If you aren't on any kinds of

meds, you can most likely go up to 5-6 days of juices

for your first time. A water fast is alot harder to

adhere to and you do get pretty weak in the beginning of

a water fast so I would personally suggest having

fresh squeezed organic juices. No soda pop!! You

mentioned you have back problems. I can tell you from my

fasting experience this time (4 days now) that my lower

back is almost pain free after hurting terribly for

the past 3 weeks. Your back pain and leg

cramps are all the more reason for a fast (IMO). Your

body is telling you it's toxic and needs to cleanse.

We shouldn't be riddled with pain on a daily basis.

That just isn't normal. If you decide to try a

few days of juice fasting, listen to your body and

stay in tune with how you're feeling. If you feel

pretty good, you can go for a few more days if that

sounds appealing. Keep in mind you may feel worse for

the first couple of days as your body throws off

toxins. This is a normal function and shouldn't be

feared. The more toxic a person is, the worse they'll

feel after starting a fast but the detox is

temporary. When breaking the fast, do it SLOWLY (especially after

a water fast). Don't eat anything cooked for a few

days (if at all . Try eating small portions of fruit

at first then you can eat some veggies. I'd stay

away from heavier raw foods like nuts for

awhile. At the end of your fast, you'll have a much better

idea of what diet you want to follow. You'll feel

cleaner inside and not want to pollute yourself with

junk. If you decide to fast, let us know how you do!!

January 4, 2001

This is gross so I will warn you, but I am not

sure if it is a very bad thing or not so i'm asking

gross and all. I think I messed something up.

I had been doing a fast from new years to

transition into either raw foodism or a doctor diet.

This morning I decided I basically gave up. Following

what I knew, I had been drinking juice for the

morning. I then ate an apple this afternoon. Lot

of stomach growling which kind of amused me, but it

stopped. So about an hour later I grabbed a few handfuls

of raisins. (I don't tend to chew raisins very

well). Same bit of growling. Almost right after

that I ended up with some gurgling in the area of the

lower intestine, and ended up in the bathroom about

every half hour. I figured the apple had gone through

pretty quickly or something, and ignored it as just kind

of amusing that I could tell where it was in the

process. But, last round in the bathroom I noticed

something (Yes this is the gross part). Very very little

brown, and about two handfuls of half raisins looking a

lot like they do after soaking. Very very clearly

still raisins, and looking very undigested. Had they

been in a dish I would never had guessed where they

had been other than soaking. I assume nothing much

happened to the apple either based on speed. Is

this something really bad that my system is just

passing them through and not doing anything with them? It

does not sound to me like a good thing in any case.

Should I wait it out to kick back in, or go back to

juice and go more gradual, or run to my doctor looking

like a doof?

January 4, 2001

Nah, that wasn't gross. It's all a natural part

of being human. I think you answered your own

question when you said " I don't tend to chew raisins very

well. " That's why they came out looking not much

different than they did when they went in. It's really

important to chew all foods well. I forget who's quote this

is, but he says " chew your food well for the stomach

has no teeth. " The grumbling you felt was your

digestive tract kicking back in after resting during the

fast. This is normal but it's important to break a fast

slowly and on fruit. I think 1/2 an apple would've been

better than the whole thing. Actually, I'd break a fast

with a more juicy fruit like small pieces of melon or

orange. Apples are more concentrated and so are raisins.

That may have been part of the problem, which wasn't

really a 'bad' problem but you may have overburdened

your digestive tract just a little. Aye

Carumba! I just read your post again and you ate a " few

handfuls of raisins " . That's a bit much to break a fast

with. No wonder your gut was rumbling so much! I

wouldn't go to a doctor for this reason. Your body is

reacting in a normal way to the apple and raisins after

fasting a few days. It's really up to you if you want to

resume the fast at this point or start on a new diet.

What do you mean by a " doctor diet " ?

January 4, 2001

By " doctor diet " I mean the reccommended diet that the doctors had given me to

help lose weight to resolve the back problems.

January 4, 2001

What does this diet consist of? Just curious.

January 4, 2001

Icky doctor diet: General rules: veggies

are steamed, meat can be grilled or otherwise cooked

with no fat or other calories added. Only allowed

drinks must have no calories (Tea, water, diet

pop) 7 am: (yes, the times are specifically stated for

the three main meals) 8 ounces skim milk or 8

ounces no-fat plain yogurt or 1 oz cheese.

Between 7 and 1: One piece of fruit from allowed

list 1 pm: 1.5 ounces tuna (water packed), fish,

seafood, turkey, or chicken breast 1/2 cup vegetable

from list. Between 1 and 6: One piece of fruit

from allowed list 6 pm: 4 ounces tuna(water

packed), fish, seafood, turkey, or chicken 1 cup

vegetable from list 1 piece fo fruit from list.

Approved fruit list: pear, apple, plum, peach, grapes

(half cup), nectarine, 2 kiwi, 1 cup cherries, 1 cup

strawberries, 2 figs, or 1 cup juice of above

fruits. Approved vegetable list: lettuce, broccoli, asparagus,

carrots, squash, brussels sprouts, beans, tomato, green

pepper, turnips, 1/2 stated amount of peas, or 1 cup

juice of above vegetables.

January 4, 2001

First of all, such regimented diets usually fail.

They're too much like prison sentences when it comes to

eating. He says to eat at 7am and to eat an all dairy

breakfast. That's bad for several reasons. First of all,

dairy products are very hard to digest and to eat them

so early in the morning makes it even harder. Our

bodies best digest fruit in the morning (or even

veggies) but not dairy! Lunch and dinner are meat

dominant with a little vegetable matter, probably cooked.

This guy is way off base if he thinks this diet will

promote health. You'll probably lose weight on it because

that isn't much food at all. I'll bet after your small

breakfast consisting of only dairy then one piece of fruit

later, you'll be ravenous by 1:00. That diet sounds

pretty awful. Most doctors don't know diddly squat about

nutrition. On the raw diet, you can basically eat whenever you

want to so hunger will never be a problem. There are a

few guidlines to follow but they sure aren't as

regimented as that icky diet you just posted. If you're

interested in going raw, I or some of the others can steer

you in the right direction. You don't have to go 100%

raw but if you can maintain 75% or higher, you'll be

doing your body a world of good. The icky diet

is definitely not the way to go, trust me on this.

January 5, 2001

:-) That's pretty much the biggest push

towards raw right now. I may not be able to have pizza,

but its a lot more leniant than the doctors idea of

weight loss diets! The diet supposedly changes

after 50 pounds of lost weight (which is exected to be

6 months), but that is still 6 months of hell

before then, and no clue what it looks like after that.

January 5, 2001

Angel, Going raw is probably one of, if

not " the " , best things you can do for health. Even if

you don't aspire to 100%, making it raw 50% or

preferably higher is a major, major, improvement compared to

typical people on the SAD (probably 99.9% of US

population. Let me recommend one other thing for you to consider

looking into to improve your back condition. I obviously

don't know how serious your problem is, but I can tell

you first-hand that tai chi is a wonderful exercise

to improve spine flexibility. I used to have

mild back pain in my lower back from studying too long

and maybe other reasons, but since I began doing tai

chi about 4 years ago I never have any back

discomfort anymore. Well, that's not totally true. Every now

and then I won't do any tai chi for several days and

then one day I wake up realized I have soreness in my

back. That triggers me to get off my butt, and usually

only one or two 15 minute or so practices will

eliminate the pain. Once or twice, I have had experiences

where on a given day I start developing sudden pain,

sort of like developing a cramp in the back muscles.

Again, I immediately spend some time doing tai chi and

it has without-fail, solved the problem. It's

not a weight-loss exercise, but is fantastic for the

back, legs and mind. If you're in to alternate forms of

spirtuality, it also open doors to connecting with the

universal energy and other esoteric Taoist principles and

beliefs. Of course you can practice it and benefit

regardless of your interests or beliefs. My class is a motly

crew of Christians, a Buddhist or 2, Jews,

Free-thinkers and heathens ;-) Once caveat, if you do

bother to try and take it up, try to make sure you pick

a good teacher or school to study with. There are a

lot of good teachers and a lot of bad teachers these

days. You really need to get in with a good teacher to

realize the higher benefits it has to offer. But even a

mediocre teacher should be able to teach you enough to

improve your back condition (I'm assuming its not

extremely serious). Several of my practice buddies have had

past chronic back pain problems and experienced the

same positive results when they

practice. Mallon

January 5, 2001

Angel, I agree with LadyBugg. All these

regimented diets are doomed to fail in the long run. Who can

stick with such a diet for long? And, as she pointed

out, many of these are far from optimal nutritionally

anyway. The absolute beauty of being as raw as possible is

that you can absolutely eat as much as you want. The

only weight complaints I've ever heard or read from

raw foodists, is that their body weight sometimes

drops to a level where they are afraid they're " too

thin " . That is, too thin with reference to the typical

American (usually only men complain about this). It

is also very helpful to try and eliminate as much

simple carbs as possible; particularly sugary products,

bread (including all processed bakery goods, bagels,

donuts etc), high-starchy stuff etc. Go with as much

fresh (preferably uncooked) veggies as possible as they

have a high nutrition to carb ratio. If you have

difficulty getting over the craving for sweets, eating raw

fruits is still vastly better than processed-sugar

products. Good luck with whatever method you choose.

January 5, 2001

I couldn't imagine following that diet for 6

months. I wouldn't wanna do it for 6 days!! It really

isn't health-promoting and God only knows what he'll

have you eating after that. There are some

good websites and books on the raw diet but keep in

mind, you don't have to be fanatical about it and eat

ONLY raw food for the rest of your life. You can still

enjoy some cooked food but do try to eat the majority

of your diet raw (raw plant food). Again, you can

basically eat as often as you like and as much as you like

within reason. It's not good to eat until you're

uncomfortable and it isn't a good idea to eat too many fatty

foods if you're trying to lose weight (avocados, nuts,

olives and oil). Let us know what you decide to

do!

Fasts and transitions.

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