Blake

[Guest guest]

There is no evidence, of raw vegans, having 'symptoms', of B12 defiecency.

<br><br>Numbers are not symptoms.<br><br>Doug

[Guest guest]

I wasn't talking about numbers but actual symptoms! This includes reduced mental

clarity and reduction in motor skills.

[Guest guest]

Symptoms are " subjective " evidence of something

wrong. And maybe you are correct. Maybe there are no raw

vegans who have expereinces subjective symptoms. But

neither you or I know all raw vegans, so neither you or I

can make the definitive statement that says " no " raw

vegens. <br><br>However, realize in many diseases the

symptoms are the last indicator of the presence of the

disease. A more accurate measure are the " signs " of the

diseaes. " signs " are objective info that can be measured.

<br><br>If you look at almost any disease, the symptoms

often show up long after the signs were there. I will

give you some sound examples<br><br>Diabetes= it may

take many years before a person experiences the

symptoms of diabetes like loss of feeling the limbs, and

blurry vision. Yet they will have had the signs of

Diabetes (high blood sugars) for many years and these

signs cant be felt as symptoms.<br><br>Heart disease =

it may take many years for a person to experience

the symptoms of heart disease like chest pain,

shortness of breath or shooting pain. Yet, they will have

had the signs of heart disease (high cholesterol,

LDL, TG) for many years before al of which cant be

felt as symptoms.<br><br>Hypertension= It may take

years for a person to expereince the symptoms of

hypertension like a stroke. Yet they will have had the signs

of HTN (hihg blood pressure) for many years which

cant be felt as a symptom.<br><br>B12 defeciency= A

raw food vegan may not experience the symptoms of b12

defecinecy like numbness, reduced mental clairty, for many

years. Yet they will have had the signs of b12 def, high

MMA, Hcy for many years which cant be felt.<br><br>All

the time any of the above had the signs of the

disease, they were exeperiencing damage at a level that

could not yet be felt. High levels of MMA and Hcy

indicate that damage to the arteries and nerves are

starting to develop if not already happening, though at

alevel that cant be felt. The longer the elevated

numbers exist, the longer the damage will happen.

eventually one day, they will feel the symptoms. That day is

NOT the first day of damage or the disease. Using

symptoms as the only criteria for the presence of a

disease is not only wrong, it is potentially dangerous.

<br><br>Noone gets symptoms of CVD, DB, HTN , Cancer overnite.

THe damage had been developing for many many years

and the " signs " are the first indicators.<br><br>If

it is true that no vegan has had symptoms of B12

def, maybe it is because they were smart enought to

get tested and react in time to the signs that there

was a problem and damage going on that they couldnt

feel. Cause by the time symptoms of b12 def Do show up,

damage may already be irreversible. <br><br>In

Health<br>Jeff

[Guest guest]

Where do you get this information from? I have never herd of raw vegans having

reduced mental clarity and reduction in motor skills associated with

B12.<br><br>Doug