Red rag to a bull.

[Guest guest]

Religion. My God, Religion.<br><br>I mean where

could I start:<br><br>Perhaps mythos and

logos.<br><br>Mythos and logos are quite distinct.<br><br>Kept

distinct, they balance each other.<br><br>Mixed, they are

vulgar.<br><br>Vulgar, do you hear, vulgar!<br><br>No-one is going to

call me vulgar Victor.

[Guest guest]

LOL.<br><br>Well, the only problem I see with

that is that one persons logos (as defined as a

rational principal) tends to another persons mythos

..<br><br>I heard a great saying not too long ago by Carl

Sagan I think, paraphrased it goes " what used to be

considered 'universal law' is now realized to be local

regulation " .<br><br>Back to raw food, there seems to be little in the way

of historical evidence that specifically " raw " food

be consumed before the 20th century and the

spiritual movement that began in the mid to late 19th

century. There's a body of evidence however that suggests

that vegetarian diets were preferred that goes back to

the Upanishads and the Vedas, 3 to 4000 years

BCE.<br><br>Interesting<br><br>LL

[Guest guest]

The Christian church services I went to as a

child and early adolescent were extremely polarizing -

you're either in or your're out. All non-Christians are

doomed to eternal Hell, including Jews, Muslims, etc and

non-believers. It's like they think they have a strangle-hold on

God or whatever you prefer to believe in. The last

time I went to church about 15 years ago, the preacher

had everyone bow their head in prayer, then asked

everyone who would be willing to give more money (on the

premise of erecting a new building) to raise their hands

but not be intimidated by their peers " ...because

only God is watching you and will know if you raised

your hand or not... " <br><br>Religion has driven wedges

into my family because I have my own view about higher

powers and it does not fit with the church view. I have

to keep short my visits with extended family because

they believe this crap and have a genuine (though

annoying) desire to " save " me so we'll all get to meet up

again in Heaven. I could goon, but I'll stop

here.<br><br>The ancient Taoists of China realized that organized

religion tends to corrupt philosophical or spiritual

practices. So while some created a religion out of Taoism,

the true understanders of the Way stayed away from

religious Taoism. This is my path too, but it is difficult

in the Deep South.<br><br>Victor, you instigator. I

fell into your trap of discussing controversies once

again!

[Guest guest]

Hi Mallon,<br><br>Good to meet you. It's so

interesting. I have been involved with mysticism of many

flavors since I was about 11 years old, I'm 57 now, and I

see the same fundamentalist bent (as is bend over

sucker) in the heavily mystical

disciplines.<br><br>Heaven, ha, try 20 or 30 lifetimes as a dog or a gorilla

or in several of the more racist interpretations, as

(gasp) an African American if you don't tow the party

line. I have actually heard that line. You add

reincarnation and karma theory to the mix and the

fundamentalists (Fundys) have a seven course meal to play

with.<br><br>Believe me bro, fundys are not always Christian. The

mystical ones are WORSE!<br><br>I see the tendency in

almost all disciplines. Raw foodists are no exception.

I've been a veggie for mega years and have seen it

there to the max, in fact, I probably was one back in

the 60's when were revolting (pun

intended).<br><br>Well anyway hello from near Austin.<br><br>PS There's

really good restaurants around here for " alternative "

diets. Of course there's no Kalachanji's like in Dallas

but we get by.<br><br>Jules

[Guest guest]

Jules,<br><br>Good to meet you too. Yes,

Kalachandji's is an incredible place - for the uninitated, it

is a serene vegetarian restaurant in a temple, with

an open courtyard, etc. It's good, it's cheap, and

it's run by Hare Krishna's who -get this - don't even

try to convert you!<br><br>Jules, if you want drop me

a line at mallon cause there's at least

one or two posters who get distressed when the board

goes off-topic. I'm not particularly on a spiritual

quest - IMHO, for me I think its mostly figured out.

But I always find it interesting to talk about these

things with others. I too tend to shy away from

extremists, although I think in some cases it does them good

(discipline issue)if the effort is directed toward healthy

outlets.<br><br>I love raw food and the whole concept and all, but

you can only post so many raw food recipes. OrionsDad

and a few others did excellent jobs at that in the

early days of this board.<br><br>Same for you Victor,

if you ever want to go off topic to any degree, feel

free to email me.<br><br>Mallon

[Guest guest]

Hi Mallon,<br><br>Thanks for the heads up. I

understand about the stick to the subject idea, it's easy to

get off into car parts and favorite movies, which

isn't too bad, but . . .<br><br>Originally my posts

were investigating the history of raw foodism which is

a very interesting to me. The socio/political

ramifications and all of that. Someone posted not too long ago

here something about the ramifications, legal, moral,

and social of raw foodism. <br><br>It's very

interesting, and if we consider those issues off subject we

tend to have a rather shallower understanding of what

we are doing. I think it's important to understand

what we are doing in context with the world along with

our own personal context.<br><br>Again, thanks for

your message,<br>I'll be in contact with

you.<br><br>Jules

[Guest guest]

Dear LulaLake,<br><br>What a lovely, refreshing

post!<br><br>And by suggesting that one person's logos is

another's mythos, you immediately spotted the flaw in my

argument.<br><br>And then you topped it off by pointing out that

universal law is now local regulation.<br><br>I would be

very interested to know more about how Raw Food began

as a spiritual movement in the nineteen

century.<br><br>It's wonderful you are part of our

group.<br><br>Victor.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mallon,<br><br>How interesting to learn of

your early religious experience.<br><br>And how

interesting you are Taoist, of course pronounced with a

D.<br><br>When people ask me what I do, I reply I am the

Inspector of Tides however I am ambitious and wish to

become the Instigator of Tides.<br><br>Instigator

command more respect.<br><br>Victor.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mallon and Jules,<br><br>I think there is a

lot to be said for keeping our responses in the

public sphere.<br><br>If we bleed off into private

email, we impoverish the group emotionally and

intellectually.<br><br>Our means are raw, while our end is each one of

us.<br><br>Remembering always, 'what you eat today, walks and talks

tomorrow'.<br><br> " So don't come the raw prawn with me,

mate! " <br><br>Victor,<br>The Instigator.

[Guest guest]

Hi Victor,<br>Im very busy today but will respond

as soon as I can take a breath. I'm a data analyst

and sometimes I can just hit the " run " button and

allow processes to go on their own but today, not so.

<br>I'm up to my hips in bad data and I have to do some

serious massage here.<br><br>Talk to you

soon.<br><br>Jules

[Guest guest]

Victor,<br><br>My introduction to raw food and

natural hygiene concepts came by way of studies into

Taoist principles, philosophies, beliefs and practices.

At this point in my life, I would not refer to

myself as " a Taoist " , although I certainly don't object

to the lable. In general, lables often do more harm

than good because they allow lazy and unintelligent

people a quick way to " think " they know someone based on

group stereotypes which in this modern age are largely

relayed to the masses via television. And since the

media, at least in this country, is increasingly being

corrupted by corporate influences, the media stereotypes of

vegetarians, environmentally-sensitive people, vegans,

" new-agers " (whatever that's supposed to mean) are generally

negative. Corporate society downplays these groups' valid

concerns by stereotyping them so they can covertly

continue to reap profits by peddling their drug and poison

alterated processed " food " products. Although you obiously

know something about Taoism (at least how to pronounce

it), I think its concepts are still not well known

about here, so I dont think negative stereotypes have

developed yet.<br><br>Taoist principles, from which Chinese

medicine and acupuncture, internal martial arts, energy

arts, caligraphy and other art forms were developed

from, seek to explain existence through the interplay

of yin and yang, or simply opposites. Life and

death, good and evil, etc are neither inherently good or

bad as Western thought tends to lable them, it is

simply that nature and existence itself can only exist

and manifest because of the existence of opposites.

How could there be beautiful without the ugly? Good

without evil?<br><br>So we simply accept it as law of the

universe that phenomena are constantly shifting from one

extreme to another and that if you understand and flow

with this tide, rather than attempt to resist it, you

will experience life naturally. And if you get out of

whack, there are food, herbal, and energy building

exercises to create balance so you're attuned to the

natural way.<br><br>Taoist don't attempt to answer

religious questions such as " why am I here " ' " why did God

do this to me " , etc. Taoists say such questions will

never clearly be answered or understood and it is a far

more efficient use of energy and resources cultivating

your essence and unifying with nature (or God if you

want to think of it that way) through variations of

meditation and other " spiritual " practices. Indeed, beliefs

about religion are nothing but beliefs - true to the

believer, but not absolute truths. If there were absolute

truths, we would not have had a long history of wars over

whose beliefs were superior to others.<br><br>For Raw

Food, Taoist concepts suggest it is good because most

people's systems in " civilized " societies are chronically

acidic (yang) and constipated, etc. Most raw foods,

especially fruits, tend to have an alkalizing effect on the

body, and can create balanced PH in the body. They also

encourage regular elimination (flowing water does not

stagnate; an active hinge doesn't rust) Heavy meat and

processed foods in diet tend to have the opposite effect.