Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 hello, my name is michelle, and i am looking for some information. here in miami, a woman who is a raw foodist is facing loosing her 4 children. she has asked me to participate in being an advocate for her....and i need more information. hopefully some of you may be able to help. this case has received international attention. this woman's fifth child recently died. the infant was 6 mo. old and weighed, allegedly, under six pounds. the state is inferring that the baby died because of the raw foods diet the family practiced. the baby was not being breastfed. it is still unclear, but i believe the baby was being fed nut milks and wheatgrass. the four other children were removed from the home after the death of the infant. they were found to be " malnourished " and in the beginning stages of rickets. of course, the state is blaming all of this on their diet, and is poised to move for termination of parental rights, even tho no official cause of death has been determined yet. for those who are not aware, dcf (the dept. of children and families) here in florida has been under serious scrutiny for completely botching up loads of cases....kids have been lost, killed...... many feel that what is happening in the case of the raw foods family is that they are being scapegoated. they are a poor black family, and unable to prepare much of a defense for themselves. ok...so what i'm interested in knowing is what does it mean for a kid to be on a raw foods only diet? is it possible to meet the nutritional need of a growing child/baby with this diet? any insight you can share will be much appreciated. i do not believe that this woman maliciously starved her baby.....and it is going to be horrible if this family is destroyed. thanks in advance, michelle vegetarian, considering raw foods diet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Michelle, Sounds to me like the " no food " or " wrong food " diet is to blame in this case rather than " raw food " . A " healthy " baby can certainly be raised on an all " raw food " diet since mother's milk fits that catagory. Every baby in the animal kingdom is raised on " raw food " so why should a human baby be any different? A child can be raised for a long time exclusively on mother's milk. But this child was not being breastfeed so that does present a problem. Anything besides mother's milk is a poor substitute but parents do use nut milks if the real thing is not available. But what kinds of nut milk were they feeding this child? Did they buy already made nut milk or did they make their own? How did they prepare it? How much did they give at a time and when? The parents could have been doing everything correct with the nut milk but not strain the milk sufficiently before putting it in the baby's feed bottle. If it's not strained well the hole in the nipple gets clogged and the baby doesn't get the milk. There is so much to consider. I'm just mentioning a few items. I never heard of feeding a baby wheatgrass (or wheatgrass juice) and personally would never consider doing so. I feel very sorry for the parents because of their loss and the legal troubles they find themselves in now. Raising a baby on any food other than breast milk is a difficult thing and problematic. Parents have to research, consult others, constantly evaluate how the baby is doing and seek professional assistance immediately if the child's health is in question. -Orionsdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Michele I should think this book should give some help and certainly be useful to the family in question! Terrible story. http://www.rawfood.com/cgi-bin/order/index.cgi?id=518773660666 & d=single & item_id=0404 & c=Booklets/Magazines & sc=Arlin/Wolfe_Publishing & tc=Beth_Mont gomery Good luck Peter motherpath [motherpath] 06 June 2003 14:09 rawfood [Raw Food] help/please read hello, my name is michelle, and i am looking for some information. here in miami, a woman who is a raw foodist is facing loosing her 4 children. she has asked me to participate in being an advocate for her....and i need more information. hopefully some of you may be able to help. this case has received international attention. this woman's fifth child recently died. the infant was 6 mo. old and weighed, allegedly, under six pounds. the state is inferring that the baby died because of the raw foods diet the family practiced. the baby was not being breastfed. it is still unclear, but i believe the baby was being fed nut milks and wheatgrass. the four other children were removed from the home after the death of the infant. they were found to be " malnourished " and in the beginning stages of rickets. of course, the state is blaming all of this on their diet, and is poised to move for termination of parental rights, even tho no official cause of death has been determined yet. for those who are not aware, dcf (the dept. of children and families) here in florida has been under serious scrutiny for completely botching up loads of cases....kids have been lost, killed...... many feel that what is happening in the case of the raw foods family is that they are being scapegoated. they are a poor black family, and unable to prepare much of a defense for themselves. ok...so what i'm interested in knowing is what does it mean for a kid to be on a raw foods only diet? is it possible to meet the nutritional need of a growing child/baby with this diet? any insight you can share will be much appreciated. i do not believe that this woman maliciously starved her baby.....and it is going to be horrible if this family is destroyed. thanks in advance, michelle vegetarian, considering raw foods diet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Sorry, but sympathy for that woman would be hard won. What did she think breasts were for? Stuffing a bra? And besides, that milk doesn't come through cooked, it IS raw. It may be the only thing we should ingest that's of the animal kingdom. We're talking about developmental needs not being met. And besides, the family is already destroyed. Her going to prison won't do anything except stop her trail of abuse. I think the woman is seriously misled and should be stopped. Well intentioned abuse is abuse nonetheless. Rose - " motherpath " <motherpath <rawfood > Friday, June 06, 2003 5:09 AM [Raw Food] help/please read > hello, > > my name is michelle, and i am looking for some information. here in > miami, a woman who is a raw foodist is facing loosing her 4 children. > she has asked me to participate in being an advocate for her....and i > need more information. hopefully some of you may be able to help. > > this case has received international attention. this woman's fifth > child recently died. the infant was 6 mo. old and weighed, > allegedly, under six pounds. the state is inferring that the baby > died because of the raw foods diet the family practiced. the baby > was not being breastfed. it is still unclear, but i believe the baby > was being fed nut milks and wheatgrass. the four other children were > removed from the home after the death of the infant. they were found > to be " malnourished " and in the beginning stages of rickets. of > course, the state is blaming all of this on their diet, and is poised > to move for termination of parental rights, even tho no official > cause of death has been determined yet. > > for those who are not aware, dcf (the dept. of children and families) > here in florida has been under serious scrutiny for completely > botching up loads of cases....kids have been lost, killed...... many > feel that what is happening in the case of the raw foods family is > that they are being scapegoated. they are a poor black family, and > unable to prepare much of a defense for themselves. > > ok...so what i'm interested in knowing is what does it mean for a kid > to be on a raw foods only diet? is it possible to meet the > nutritional need of a growing child/baby with this diet? any insight > you can share will be much appreciated. i do not believe that this > woman maliciously starved her baby.....and it is going to be horrible > if this family is destroyed. > > thanks in advance, > michelle > vegetarian, considering raw foods diet > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Hello May I suggest that you take a look at www.hacres.com? There is a great deal of very helpful information there. I have no affiliation but amy starting to follow their suggestions re raw food eating. Also, Dr. Fred Bisci, PhD. has a website on raw food which might help. He has been a raw food eater for over 40 years. His education is nutrition. Best wishes. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Rose Judgment should be left to the Almighty. Men make far too many cock-ups and as for the justice handed out by the legal system... ... prison is an evil, counter-productive and should be abolished. The litany of blunders is without end. Ignorance is certainly a world problem. It is the root of all problems. For example - did that woman have someone to tell her how to turn on her milk? If she had this whole sad business would not have been reported. And what have all these busybody medics and child care mongers been doing? I'd say piling on the misery. It is all due to their ignorance. So Rose, please abdicate from the moral majority. The pain and agony of this horror story will savage this family and all for the sake of ignorance. Peter Rose and Fred Lieberman [pyrite] 07 June 2003 15:30 rawfood Re: [Raw Food] help/please read Sorry, but sympathy for that woman would be hard won. What did she think breasts were for? Stuffing a bra? And besides, that milk doesn't come through cooked, it IS raw. It may be the only thing we should ingest that's of the animal kingdom. We're talking about developmental needs not being met. And besides, the family is already destroyed. Her going to prison won't do anything except stop her trail of abuse. I think the woman is seriously misled and should be stopped. Well intentioned abuse is abuse nonetheless. Rose - " motherpath " <motherpath <rawfood > Friday, June 06, 2003 5:09 AM [Raw Food] help/please read > hello, > > my name is michelle, and i am looking for some information. here in > miami, a woman who is a raw foodist is facing loosing her 4 children. > she has asked me to participate in being an advocate for her....and i > need more information. hopefully some of you may be able to help. > > this case has received international attention. this woman's fifth > child recently died. the infant was 6 mo. old and weighed, allegedly, > under six pounds. the state is inferring that the baby died because of > the raw foods diet the family practiced. the baby was not being > breastfed. it is still unclear, but i believe the baby was being fed > nut milks and wheatgrass. the four other children were removed from > the home after the death of the infant. they were found to be > " malnourished " and in the beginning stages of rickets. of course, the > state is blaming all of this on their diet, and is poised to move for > termination of parental rights, even tho no official cause of death > has been determined yet. > > for those who are not aware, dcf (the dept. of children and families) > here in florida has been under serious scrutiny for completely > botching up loads of cases....kids have been lost, killed...... many > feel that what is happening in the case of the raw foods family is > that they are being scapegoated. they are a poor black family, and > unable to prepare much of a defense for themselves. > > ok...so what i'm interested in knowing is what does it mean for a kid > to be on a raw foods only diet? is it possible to meet the > nutritional need of a growing child/baby with this diet? any insight > you can share will be much appreciated. i do not believe that this > woman maliciously starved her baby.....and it is going to be horrible > if this family is destroyed. > > thanks in advance, > michelle > vegetarian, considering raw foods diet > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 I agree with the abuse idea. Abuse is abuse. But I feel that the only way to prevent abuse is through awareness. This can be in the form of educating, reading, lectures, classes, talking openly and non- judgementally with others about holistic health (including the raw diet) and by not condemning any human being for any reason. I do feel terribly for these parents no matter who is to " blame " . But condemnation is abuse as well. As raw foodists we are blessed with an awareness that enables us to transcend the lies that we have been taught- i.e. that some humans are better or worse than others, that cooked food is good for us etc. By being living examples of a more enlightened way, we can make a great difference in this society we create at each moment. rawfood , " Rose and Fred Lieberman " <pyrite@c...> wrote: > Sorry, but sympathy for that woman would be hard won. What did she think > breasts were for? Stuffing a bra? And besides, that milk doesn't come > through cooked, it IS raw. It may be the only thing we should ingest that's > of the animal kingdom. We're talking about developmental needs not being > met. > > And besides, the family is already destroyed. Her going to prison won't do > anything except stop her trail of abuse. > > I think the woman is seriously misled and should be stopped. Well > intentioned abuse is abuse nonetheless. > > Rose > > > - > " motherpath " <motherpath@a...> > <rawfood > > Friday, June 06, 2003 5:09 AM > [Raw Food] help/please read > > > > hello, > > > > my name is michelle, and i am looking for some information. here in > > miami, a woman who is a raw foodist is facing loosing her 4 children. > > she has asked me to participate in being an advocate for her....and i > > need more information. hopefully some of you may be able to help. > > > > this case has received international attention. this woman's fifth > > child recently died. the infant was 6 mo. old and weighed, > > allegedly, under six pounds. the state is inferring that the baby > > died because of the raw foods diet the family practiced. the baby > > was not being breastfed. it is still unclear, but i believe the baby > > was being fed nut milks and wheatgrass. the four other children were > > removed from the home after the death of the infant. they were found > > to be " malnourished " and in the beginning stages of rickets. of > > course, the state is blaming all of this on their diet, and is poised > > to move for termination of parental rights, even tho no official > > cause of death has been determined yet. > > > > for those who are not aware, dcf (the dept. of children and families) > > here in florida has been under serious scrutiny for completely > > botching up loads of cases....kids have been lost, killed...... many > > feel that what is happening in the case of the raw foods family is > > that they are being scapegoated. they are a poor black family, and > > unable to prepare much of a defense for themselves. > > > > ok...so what i'm interested in knowing is what does it mean for a kid > > to be on a raw foods only diet? is it possible to meet the > > nutritional need of a growing child/baby with this diet? any insight > > you can share will be much appreciated. i do not believe that this > > woman maliciously starved her baby.....and it is going to be horrible > > if this family is destroyed. > > > > thanks in advance, > > michelle > > vegetarian, considering raw foods diet > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 I think many of you are missing the point. The " authorities " are blaming a raw foods diet for the death of the child, scapegoating the lifestyle. Regardless of our opinions of the people involved, we need to educate others that this insidious blaming of a proven to be health lifestyle is not blame-worthy. Just because of one unfortuante incident, they want to condemn the lifestyle. That's like saying that a black man killed someone once, therefore all black men are bad. There's no difference. And the guilt or innocence of the black man in question is irrelevant for the issue. Ya can't throw the baby out with the bath water (excuse the insensitive pun.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Frank, I agree. Perhaps the day will come when all fresh fruits and vegetables will be banned because of the harm they cause. All of our foods will have to be highly processed, cooked and canned. The medical and drug industries would be thrilled and everyone would be saved from the evil raw food diet... -Orionsdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 I agree it depends on what nut milk they feed the baby and how much. I give my baby barley grass since about 6 weeks of age when it safe to feed diluted juice. I have always diluted the BG and raw juices. But he is only supplemented on them when mother's milk was not enough. He is now 4 months and doing very well. I also thinks it depends on what mom ate while pregnant. Did she get enough nourishment? I do believe we need to pray for this family and do what we can to show everyone that raw food didn't kill the child. And malnourished don't come from a proper raw food diet. Otherwise every raw food family will be at the mercy of Family Services. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 Please don't include me with any moral majority. There's obviously something very wrong and before any more children die, it needs to be stopped. Let's not forget that it takes two to make a baby. There's a man in there somewhere. That makes two very ignorant people at the helm. Do I want to see her punished or in prison? Of course not! But that's a losing battle kiddo. As you probably well know a baby's stomach doesn't produce enough acid to extract the minerals from the raw veggies. So - ignorant or well meaning or not - she starved her children to death. Compassion all around - but she still needs to be stopped, and so do the fertilizers in her life. This is not a moral issue. This is a stupidity issue and it doesn't look like she's getting any smarter. Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 In a message dated 6/7/2003 12:34:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, petergardiner writes: > And besides, the family is already destroyed. Her going to prison won't > do anything except stop her trail of abuse. > i do not wish to get into a moral debate about this. i was simply looking for information about the raw foods diet(s), as i am a novice in this area. however, i must correct you in saying that this family is not yet destroyed, although they are well on their way. their other children are bright and apparently healthy to friends and neighbors. they love their parents and are quite attached to them. clearly this woman and her husband were quite misguided in what they have done re: the baby. i think that some attempt at therapy should be attempted before the court terminates parental rights. as you said in a later post than this one, she appears to be quite ignorant of what she may have done. unless they lock her and her husband up for the remainder of their childbearing years, they could easily go on to have more children...and possibly endanger them too. so what would the system have accomplished? again, i am not interested in debating the moral issues at hand here. i simply am looking for relevant info re: raw foods diets. thanks to all of you who have given helpful information. peace, michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 Michelle, I wish you all power and success in the defence of these people. Great challenge you have and please do not take my cynical perceptions about the justice systems to heart. These people took their child to medical opinion and there was a failure of treatment. I in 100 American eats raw food. Are they killing off their children in significant numbers? There are thousands of doctors and dieticians who could treat such a simple case. A quick look in the register of medics who knows how to treat such a case should not be so difficult. The baby died, clearly the parents did not kill it. In my mind it is quasi certain that the heat treated food was the actual cause of death. Does every child death at the hands of the medical profession result in locking up the parents? The court is putting the wrong people in the dock. It is certain that there was a lack of knowledge in the parents but they should not be imprisoned for a lack of knowledge. By contrast all the professionals who failed in their professional responsibilities to save the baby's life, should be disbarred from practice and they should have far longer sentences. It seems also that there were court order forcing treatment which ultimately killed the baby who was not in the care of the parents. The judge should be disciplined for passing an inappropriate order based on inadequate medical opinion in the first place. The blunders are so catastrophic that the whole case should be thrown out along with the DA for bringing such a mess to justice. There should be blood on the carpet and millions of dollars on the table by the time you have finished with the bunch of clowns you are up against. Peter motherpath [motherpath] 08 June 2003 15:29 rawfood Re: [Raw Food] help/please read In a message dated 6/7/2003 12:34:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, petergardiner writes: > And besides, the family is already destroyed. Her going to prison > won't do anything except stop her trail of abuse. > i do not wish to get into a moral debate about this. i was simply looking for information about the raw foods diet(s), as i am a novice in this area. however, i must correct you in saying that this family is not yet destroyed, although they are well on their way. their other children are bright and apparently healthy to friends and neighbors. they love their parents and are quite attached to them. clearly this woman and her husband were quite misguided in what they have done re: the baby. i think that some attempt at therapy should be attempted before the court terminates parental rights. as you said in a later post than this one, she appears to be quite ignorant of what she may have done. unless they lock her and her husband up for the remainder of their childbearing years, they could easily go on to have more children...and possibly endanger them too. so what would the system have accomplished? again, i am not interested in debating the moral issues at hand here. i simply am looking for relevant info re: raw foods diets. thanks to all of you who have given helpful information. peace, michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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