Guest guest Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Hi Bridgitte, Could you give an example of what a raw food meal for your cats would consist of? I have a dog, but I assume a raw diet would be similar. She loves snacking on raw carrots or bok choy stalks, but that's about the only raw food she gets now. - Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Hi Janet A raw diet for dogs and cats normally includes meat and bones. I feed my dog a diet consisting of raw meaty bones and veggie mash. You should puree the vegetables because dogs cannot digest the cellular walls in veggies. In a mash the veggies are in a better digesting form for dogs. As for meaty bones, everything goes. I use a lot of chicken wings as my dog doesn't eat any bigger bones and bones supply dogs with calcium and all the minerals they need. Personally I think it's possible to keep a dog on a vegetarian diet, as well (although many will disagree). That would consists of cooked grains (like dark rice, millet and buckwheat), veggies and fruit, nuts and seeds and eggs. Bones are vital though as that is for dogs what leafy greens is for us humans. You can email me privately if you want more info, also do an internet search on " BARF " and you'll find heaps of info. BARF here stands for Bones And Raw Food, or Biologically Appropriate Raw Food (a term introduced by an Aussie vet, Ian Billinghurst. His books are great!) I would encourage every one to feed their pets a raw diet, it's the only real food for all animals. Kibble/canned food is poison! Good luck Nan 'rawfood , janet <raweats@x> wrote: > Hi Bridgitte, > > Could you give an example of what a raw food meal for your cats > would consist of? I have a dog, but I assume a raw diet would be > similar. She loves snacking on raw carrots or bok choy stalks, but > that's about the only raw food she gets now. > > - Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 rawfood , janet <raweats@x> wrote: > Hi Bridgitte, > > Could you give an example of what a raw food meal for your cats > would consist of? I have a dog, but I assume a raw diet would be > similar. She loves snacking on raw carrots or bok choy stalks, but > that's about the only raw food she gets now. I just gave a description to Peter, but dogs have different nutritional needs. The best thing to do is put " raw pet food " in a search engine and start reading Also, there is a book called " Reigning Cats and Dogs " by Pat McKay, which I haven't read but has come highly recommended. She has a web site where you can get more information/purchase the book. Bridgitte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 rawfood , nanna_mi <no_reply> wrote: w diet for dogs and cats normally includes meat and bones. > > I feed my dog a diet consisting of raw meaty bones and veggie mash. > You should puree the vegetables because dogs cannot digest the > cellular walls in veggies. In a mash the veggies are in a better > digesting form for dogs. As for meaty bones, everything goes. I use a > lot of chicken wings as my dog doesn't eat any bigger bones and bones > supply dogs with calcium and all the minerals they need. Hi Nan, Interesting - thanks for the info. I'm surprised about the chicken wings, though. I had always heard that chicken bones are not good for dogs because they are soft and would splinter, perhaps getting stuck in the throat or causing intestinal damage. Do you feed your dog commercial chicken? I'd be concerned about the added hormones, antibiotics, etc. As far as pureeing the vegetables because dogs can't digest the cellular walls.... well, isn't the latter true for humans, too? Fibrous foods are supposed to be good for optimal elimination. I've seen my dog eat grass from time to time - and I doubt that is totally digestible. - Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Nan, Why do you preach turning a carnivorous dog into a vegetarian. It is set up and programmed to run on meat and you are trying to feed it vegetable which will be shoved out before it is digested. It will take millions you years with countless dog diseases to bring about such ambitious change with health in the dogs. The dog will have to change its whole shape to accommodate the extra gut. It will no longer need the snout to eat into the carcass and it will be able to chuck out the sense of smell. And it will have to find a new way of marking its territory as the chemistry of its urine will change. I know that dogs will eat some grass and even berries from time to time but only in tiny doses, just as a cow might eat the odd dead bird it finds in a field. Please do your dogs a favour and stick to BARF. Peter nanna_mi [no_reply ] 04 July 2003 12:05 rawfood [Raw Food] Re: Raw Food for Cats/Dogs Hi Janet A raw diet for dogs and cats normally includes meat and bones. I feed my dog a diet consisting of raw meaty bones and veggie mash. You should puree the vegetables because dogs cannot digest the cellular walls in veggies. In a mash the veggies are in a better digesting form for dogs. As for meaty bones, everything goes. I use a lot of chicken wings as my dog doesn't eat any bigger bones and bones supply dogs with calcium and all the minerals they need. Personally I think it's possible to keep a dog on a vegetarian diet, as well (although many will disagree). That would consists of cooked grains (like dark rice, millet and buckwheat), veggies and fruit, nuts and seeds and eggs. Bones are vital though as that is for dogs what leafy greens is for us humans. You can email me privately if you want more info, also do an internet search on " BARF " and you'll find heaps of info. BARF here stands for Bones And Raw Food, or Biologically Appropriate Raw Food (a term introduced by an Aussie vet, Ian Billinghurst. His books are great!) I would encourage every one to feed their pets a raw diet, it's the only real food for all animals. Kibble/canned food is poison! Good luck Nan 'rawfood , janet <raweats@x> wrote: > Hi Bridgitte, > > Could you give an example of what a raw food meal for your cats > would consist of? I have a dog, but I assume a raw diet would be > similar. She loves snacking on raw carrots or bok choy stalks, but > that's about the only raw food she gets now. > > - Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 This time I must disagree Peter, Dogs are not carnivores, but omnivores. Mother's milk for a dog is only 7% protein. In the wild we know that the first thing consumed on a " Kill " is the contents of the stomach and intestine which would, in almost all cases, be a vegetarian animal. The alpha dog, the healthiest and strongest is the first to partake of these delicacies, and gets the most. As it turns out, the shape of the snoot is designed for just such an undertaking. There is no such thing as a carnivore. Cats are also omnivores. We tend to call predators carnivores, but that is not really their diet. In the book " Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats " one thing the author does not take into consideration is the fact about mother's milk. Another thing she is confused about is the size of the prey. Her book is based on the prey being a bird, and having a small stomach, thus not much vegetable matter. She fails to realize that dogs were once wolves, traveled in packs, and took down large animals. One of my dogs is a pure bred Akita. His father killed an 80 pound wild pig, alone. The next time he got out of the yard he took down an adult goat. The neighbors who owned the goat were not happy. My Akita has never harmed another animal. My girlfriend and I bring home stray animals (a habit we must stop, we are becoming overrun). Several times we have brought home starving abandoned kittens, and they decide that my Akita is mommy, and try to nurse. He just growls at them and goes back to sleep. I have started giving him raw bones. And some raw meat, but not very much. I try to guess about 7%. He is a very healthy, happy dog. Doug rawfood , " Peter Gardiner " <petergardiner@e...> wrote: > Nan, > > Why do you preach turning a carnivorous dog into a vegetarian. > > It is set up and programmed to run on meat and you are trying > to feed it vegetable which will be shoved out before it is digested. > > It will take millions you years with countless dog diseases to bring > about such ambitious change with health in the dogs. The dog will have > to change its whole shape to accommodate the extra gut. It will no > longer need the snout to eat into the carcass and it will be able > to chuck out the sense of smell. And it will have to find a new way of > marking its territory as the chemistry of its urine will change. > > I know that dogs will eat some grass and even berries from time to time > but only in tiny doses, just as a cow might eat the odd dead bird it > finds > in a field. > > Please do your dogs a favour and stick to BARF. > > Peter > > > > nanna_mi [no_reply ] > 04 July 2003 12:05 > rawfood > [Raw Food] Re: Raw Food for Cats/Dogs > > > > Hi Janet > > A raw diet for dogs and cats normally includes meat and bones. > > I feed my dog a diet consisting of raw meaty bones and veggie mash. > You should puree the vegetables because dogs cannot digest the > cellular walls in veggies. In a mash the veggies are in a better > digesting form for dogs. As for meaty bones, everything goes. I use a > lot of chicken wings as my dog doesn't eat any bigger bones and bones > supply dogs with calcium and all the minerals they need. > > Personally I think it's possible to keep a dog on a vegetarian diet, > as well (although many will disagree). That would consists of cooked > grains (like dark rice, millet and buckwheat), veggies and fruit, > nuts and seeds and eggs. Bones are vital though as that is for dogs > what leafy greens is for us humans. > > You can email me privately if you want more info, also do an internet > search on " BARF " and you'll find heaps of info. BARF here stands for > Bones And Raw Food, or Biologically Appropriate Raw Food (a term > introduced by an Aussie vet, Ian Billinghurst. His books are great!) > > I would encourage every one to feed their pets a raw diet, it's the > only real food for all animals. Kibble/canned food is poison! > > Good luck > Nan > > > 'rawfood , janet <raweats@x> wrote: > > Hi Bridgitte, > > > > Could you give an example of what a raw food meal for your cats > > would consist of? I have a dog, but I assume a raw diet would be > > similar. She loves snacking on raw carrots or bok choy stalks, but > > that's about the only raw food she gets now. > > > > - Janet > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 My cats are also wonderful teachers. We live in a very rural area. I give my cats free choice of dry food, plenty of water, etc. They also have a choice of eating any fruits and vegetables that we do. Other than licking the bowls after we're done, drinking up the liquid from the innerds of cantalope, eating some peanut butter (hilarious to watch a cat eat that!), and chewing on grass - they are pretty much meat eaters. Our lifestyle is very freeform. We actually live in a hoophouse, so we're not very formal. Cats go out, hunt, bring something home, plop it on the floor and do one of three things: announce to the " group " (that'd be us and the other cats) that there's something to share (or a growl to stay away); begin eating it right away; or toss it up in the air a few times to get more mileage out of the hunt. Outside of the wee cecum of the prey left behind (at least we think it's the cecum), they eat everything. Our cats are very healthy. They were all raised on mother's milk, too. I guess the acid test would be to put peanut butter next to the vole and see which one the cat goes to. Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Point conceded, Doug I still think a dog is adjusted to eating meat whereas a human is badly adapted to eating it. It will certainly scavenge. Look at the city foxes. Such supports the omnivorous nature of dogs. Humans think they are omnivores but they are just kidding themselves. Nature needs a lot longer than a few hundred thousand years to refine any digestive process. The case could probably be made that even the dung beetle probably started out on another diet than dung. I still think taking fresh meat from a dog is like taking dung from a dung beetle. Peter kauguy [no_reply ] 05 July 2003 12:36 rawfood [Raw Food] Re: Raw Food for Cats/Dogs This time I must disagree Peter, Dogs are not carnivores, but omnivores. Mother's milk for a dog is only 7% protein. In the wild we know that the first thing consumed on a " Kill " is the contents of the stomach and intestine which would, in almost all cases, be a vegetarian animal. The alpha dog, the healthiest and strongest is the first to partake of these delicacies, and gets the most. As it turns out, the shape of the snoot is designed for just such an undertaking. There is no such thing as a carnivore. Cats are also omnivores. We tend to call predators carnivores, but that is not really their diet. In the book " Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats " one thing the author does not take into consideration is the fact about mother's milk. Another thing she is confused about is the size of the prey. Her book is based on the prey being a bird, and having a small stomach, thus not much vegetable matter. She fails to realize that dogs were once wolves, traveled in packs, and took down large animals. One of my dogs is a pure bred Akita. His father killed an 80 pound wild pig, alone. The next time he got out of the yard he took down an adult goat. The neighbors who owned the goat were not happy. My Akita has never harmed another animal. My girlfriend and I bring home stray animals (a habit we must stop, we are becoming overrun). Several times we have brought home starving abandoned kittens, and they decide that my Akita is mommy, and try to nurse. He just growls at them and goes back to sleep. I have started giving him raw bones. And some raw meat, but not very much. I try to guess about 7%. He is a very healthy, happy dog. Doug rawfood , " Peter Gardiner " <petergardiner@e...> wrote: > Nan, > > Why do you preach turning a carnivorous dog into a vegetarian. > > It is set up and programmed to run on meat and you are trying to feed > it vegetable which will be shoved out before it is digested. > > It will take millions you years with countless dog diseases to bring > about such ambitious change with health in the dogs. The dog will have > to change its whole shape to accommodate the extra gut. It will no > longer need the snout to eat into the carcass and it will be able to > chuck out the sense of smell. And it will have to find a new way of > marking its territory as the chemistry of its urine will change. > > I know that dogs will eat some grass and even berries from time to time > but only in tiny doses, just as a cow might eat the odd dead bird it > finds in a field. > > Please do your dogs a favour and stick to BARF. > > Peter > > > > nanna_mi [no_reply ] > 04 July 2003 12:05 > rawfood > [Raw Food] Re: Raw Food for Cats/Dogs > > > > Hi Janet > > A raw diet for dogs and cats normally includes meat and bones. > > I feed my dog a diet consisting of raw meaty bones and veggie mash. > You should puree the vegetables because dogs cannot digest the > cellular walls in veggies. In a mash the veggies are in a better > digesting form for dogs. As for meaty bones, everything goes. I use a > lot of chicken wings as my dog doesn't eat any bigger bones and bones > supply dogs with calcium and all the minerals they need. > > Personally I think it's possible to keep a dog on a vegetarian diet, > as well (although many will disagree). That would consists of cooked > grains (like dark rice, millet and buckwheat), veggies and fruit, > nuts and seeds and eggs. Bones are vital though as that is for dogs > what leafy greens is for us humans. > > You can email me privately if you want more info, also do an internet > search on " BARF " and you'll find heaps of info. BARF here stands for > Bones And Raw Food, or Biologically Appropriate Raw Food (a term > introduced by an Aussie vet, Ian Billinghurst. His books are great!) > > I would encourage every one to feed their pets a raw diet, it's the > only real food for all animals. Kibble/canned food is poison! > > Good luck > Nan > > > 'rawfood , janet <raweats@x> wrote: > > Hi Bridgitte, > > > > Could you give an example of what a raw food meal for your cats > > would consist of? I have a dog, but I assume a raw diet would be > > similar. She loves snacking on raw carrots or bok choy stalks, but > > that's about the only raw food she gets now. > > > > - Janet > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Hi Pete, As far as I know, dogs are omnivores, not strict carnivores. They can actually survive on a vegetarian diet. Though I don't know if that would be the best for them long term. Cats are quite different on the other hand. They are fairly strict carnivores. I've heard from numerous people who feed their dogs varying vegetarian fare. They like these foods. My cat would never have it. She only wants meat. At most she ate a little avocado. Roger Have you tried the Raw Diet many times but failed to stick with it? Now you can learn the Motivational and Dietary Secrets to success on a 100% Raw Food Diet. From Infinite Potential and Raw Food Coach, Roger Haeske, the author of Your Hidden Power - eClass, Infinite Tennis and http://www.superbeing.com <http://www.superbeing.com/> . Go to http://www.superbeingdiet.com <http://www.superbeingdiet.com%20/> to learn how to go 100% RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 Hi Janet, I fed my dogs raw (it's called BARF Biologically Appropriate Raw Food) for a while, it consists of a lot of raw chicken, bones and all (never give a dog COOKED bones, ever.... they split) There are TONS of groups and sites dedicated to Raw Feeding for pets, I would suggest going to the page and doing a search for BARF... you'll be surprised at how many people feed their dogs that way... many more people do that than feed THEMSELVES that way Rebekah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 And cats have never lost their instinct to hunt, as dogs have. So there are mice, birds and an ocassional baby garter snake. Rob > Hi Pete, > > As far as I know, dogs are omnivores, not strict carnivores. They can > actually survive on a vegetarian diet. Though I don't know if that would > be the best for them long term. Cats are quite different on the other > hand. They are fairly strict carnivores. I've heard from numerous people > who feed their dogs varying vegetarian fare. They like these foods. > > My cat would never have it. She only wants meat. At most she ate a > little avocado. > > Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 In a message dated 7/5/03 6:38:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: > . In the wild we know that the first thing consumed on > a " Kill " is the contents of the stomach and intestine which would, in > almost all cases, be a vegetarian animal. This is not true at all. Not one bit. I hate to get into it, since I have so many times, but if you join a raw dog/cat feeding list, you will find that the stomach usually gets left over. They eat the intestines and the LAST dog (the omega) gets that! Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 In a message dated 7/5/03 3:45:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, roger writes: > > Hi Pete, > > As far as I know, dogs are omnivores, not strict carnivores. They Dogs can eat vegetables but they are CARNIVORES. They are calssified as carnivores. There is little to no evidence that dogs need vegetables at all. Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 In a message dated 7/5/03 11:18:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, raweats writes: > Do you feed your dog commercial chicken? I'd be concerned about the > added hormones, antibiotics, etc. > It is a LAW In the US that all chicken is hormone free. Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Janet: Cooked bones splinter. Rob > Interesting - thanks for the info. I'm surprised about the chicken > wings, though. I had always heard that chicken bones are not good > for dogs because they are soft and would splinter, perhaps getting > stuck in the throat or causing intestinal damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Peter Read my post again and point to me exactly WHERE I preach turning a dog into a vegetarian?? I'm merely stating that I think it's possible to feed a dog a vegetarian diet but I'm not encouraging anyone into it, neither am I stating that I'm doing it to my dog! Quite the opposite, my dog eats plenty of raw meat and meaty bones! I think a dog is an opportunistic carnivore, meaning it thrives on meat but as dogs are scavengers, they will pretty much live on anything they can find. I think a good example are the thousands of dogs living on processed canned dog food or kibble. Some of them have 2-4 % meat content... My dog eats BARF, now and forever! Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Hi Janet Like someone already posted, chicken bones are only harmful to dogs if cooked. All raw bones are fine - it's the natural diet for dogs. I feed commercial chicken to my dog as I have no choice. I live in Finland, where no hormones are allowed to be used to grow poultry or cattle. Of course that doesn't take away the problem of treating the animals very badly during their short life... Also, I'd be more concerned of the quality of the kibble/canned food you are feeding, because you never know what it's been made of but you can be sure the meat there is of very poor quality. I believe the vegetables are good for dogs, even though it's never been proved. Especially when you feed your dog a lot of bones, his stools can become very hard. Feeding a veggie mash with meat or egg every other or third meal will make the stool more lose and keep the digestion going. Guess it's the fiber. A couple of good books on raw feeding for dogs are: 'Give your dog a bone' 'Grow your pups with bones' both by Ian Billinghurst http://www.barfworld.com 'Switching to raw' by Sue Johnson http://www.switchingtoraw.com/ Good luck with going raw with your dog! It's really the best thing you can do for your pet Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Nan, Please send your post along again with my response for an accurate response. From memory, I certainly had the impression you were feeding your dog on some mush of cooked vegetable in the belief that this would aid its digestion. I certainly had visions of your trying turn your dog vegan in the belief that it would be good for it. I am glad to hear that such is not the case. Peter nanna_mi [no_reply ] 07 July 2003 07:50 rawfood [Raw Food] Re: Raw Food for Cats/Dogs Peter Read my post again and point to me exactly WHERE I preach turning a dog into a vegetarian?? I'm merely stating that I think it's possible to feed a dog a vegetarian diet but I'm not encouraging anyone into it, neither am I stating that I'm doing it to my dog! Quite the opposite, my dog eats plenty of raw meat and meaty bones! I think a dog is an opportunistic carnivore, meaning it thrives on meat but as dogs are scavengers, they will pretty much live on anything they can find. I think a good example are the thousands of dogs living on processed canned dog food or kibble. Some of them have 2-4 % meat content... My dog eats BARF, now and forever! Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I thought people might be interested to read about what goes into commercial pet food... http://www.preciouspets.org/truth.htm Bridgitte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I lost a cat to an inoperable liver tumor about a year ago. Our veterinarian said, 1: those liver tumors are very common in cats and 2: they are caused by bad cat food. If you feed your cat commercial canned cat food from the supermarket, you are playing Russian roulette with your pet's health. You have no way of knowing or controlling exactly what your pet is eating. The same may be said for people eating processed packged foods and meats from the supermarket. Thanks for passing this along, Bridgette.........Betsy Bridgette wrote: - " Bridgitte " <syndactylcat <rawfood > Monday, July 07, 2003 10:45 AM [Raw Food] Re: Raw Food for Cats/Dogs > I thought people might be interested to read about what goes into > commercial pet food... > > http://www.preciouspets.org/truth.htm > > Bridgitte > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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