raw vs 80/90% raw

July 7, 2003

I have just recently started the Natural Hygeine way of eating.

I have been a vegetarian for over 23 years, but have eaten dairy.

Now, I'm off dairy with the exception of a little butter (for

now). I have eaten only fruit before noon and then try to eat a

salad twice a day along with steamed vegetables. I have also

included nuts a few times a week.

I believe that I've been discovering detox symptoms because I

have had a bad headache a few days. Today I feel much better,

but the day isn't over yet. Now I hear about cooked food

addictions and going 100% raw. Wouldn't you say it would be

perfectly o.k. to make this further transition for me a little

more gradually since my body is already causing me so much

discomfort?

I have heard that eating the salad with lemon or with no dressing

is best. However, I find it harder each day to eat my salad. I

am buying organic mixed greens or other organic salad mix, and I

find myself forcing myself to eat a small one. I look forward to

the grounding feeling of my cooked vegetables, but I don't feel

over compelled to eat as I did in the past. Although I hear what

you are saying about food addiction, I feel myself enjoying the

foods but I don't feel like I'm living to eat anymore like I did

in the past. I actually feel like I have kicked my addiction.

So I guess I'm asking a question to get validation for me moving

slowly toward more (if not 100%) raw diet, and also some

suggestions on how to do this. Although I am a vegetarian, I

must admit there are quite a few vegetables that I do not like.

From what I hear about fasting, that is supposed to clear the

palate and help one learn to like more vegetables. But also

from what I hear from the Natural Hygeine lectures from past

conferences, that unless you do the fast under supervised

conditions, you may cause more harm than good.

Since I have gradually moved to where I am now, I feel like

having all juice days and all fruit days and all raw days would

be enough for me at least for the immediate future. I also heard

that eating some rice or grains can help to eleviate some of the

toxins thrown out into the bloodstream. Can anyone suggest any

reading on or off line regarding the getting started stage?

Hopefully, you will get the gist of what I am asking. Maybe some

of you remember back when you first got started and what things

helped you.

Thanks.

Viveca

I am on digest version and don't mind anyone writing to me

personally.

July 8, 2003

Viveca,

I am replying to your question about fasting without supervision.

People can go into a fast from all kinds of starting points and there

are caveats.

Thus and medical practitioner of experience who has seen the mistakes

possible made would in honesty advise his supervision.

I have been on half a dozen fasts without any medical supervision and

have had nothing but positive results from all of them. As a matter of

reality I have never met a medic who thought that a fast was likely to

have any benefit to health at all. They usually mumble about missing

nutrients and then hunt for a change of subject in the conversation with

me.

I have read about fasting and there are a three of trump cards I keep

around which I would use if I had ever felt any troubles coming on.

The are:

1. Add a little juice to my water and see whether the problem goes

away

2. Slowly break the fast and try again 3 months time.

3. Admit defeat and visit a medic.

When you read about fasting you will read about a horrifying bunch of

symptoms that can come your way. The

only two that came my way were mouth sores and a sore throat. I boosted

the water intake for the latter.

As I have said before and lots of hygienist/raw food proponents have

also said a fast is an excellent way

of allowing the body to heal itself and get off again on the right foot.

I came into a full raw diet

after a 28 day water fast and never suffered any of the problems of

cooked food addiction.

Another early experience of going raw was the odd mouth bite.

Hope this helps

Peter

Viveca Park [vivecapark]

07 July 2003 18:21

rawfood

[Raw Food] raw vs 80/90% raw

I have just recently started the Natural Hygeine way of eating. I have

been a vegetarian for over 23 years, but have eaten dairy. Now, I'm off

dairy with the exception of a little butter (for now). I have eaten

only fruit before noon and then try to eat a

salad twice a day along with steamed vegetables. I have also

included nuts a few times a week.

I believe that I've been discovering detox symptoms because I have had a

bad headache a few days. Today I feel much better, but the day isn't

over yet. Now I hear about cooked food addictions and going 100% raw.

Wouldn't you say it would be perfectly o.k. to make this further

transition for me a little more gradually since my body is already

causing me so much discomfort?

I have heard that eating the salad with lemon or with no dressing is

best. However, I find it harder each day to eat my salad. I am buying

organic mixed greens or other organic salad mix, and I find myself

forcing myself to eat a small one. I look forward to the grounding

feeling of my cooked vegetables, but I don't feel over compelled to eat

as I did in the past. Although I hear what you are saying about food

addiction, I feel myself enjoying the foods but I don't feel like I'm

living to eat anymore like I did in the past. I actually feel like I

have kicked my addiction.

So I guess I'm asking a question to get validation for me moving slowly

toward more (if not 100%) raw diet, and also some suggestions on how to

do this. Although I am a vegetarian, I must admit there are quite a few

vegetables that I do not like. From what I hear about fasting, that is

supposed to clear the palate and help one learn to like more

vegetables. But also from what I hear from the Natural Hygeine lectures

from past conferences, that unless you do the fast under supervised

conditions, you may cause more harm than good.

Since I have gradually moved to where I am now, I feel like having all

juice days and all fruit days and all raw days would be enough for me at

least for the immediate future. I also heard that eating some rice or

grains can help to eleviate some of the toxins thrown out into the

bloodstream. Can anyone suggest any reading on or off line regarding

the getting started stage?

Hopefully, you will get the gist of what I am asking. Maybe some of you

remember back when you first got started and what things helped you.

Thanks.

Viveca

I am on digest version and don't mind anyone writing to me personally.

July 8, 2003

Viveca;

First of all about fasting; I know exactly what you are feeling. I

just did my first fast just recently. I work in construction and I

could not possibly take any time off. I work between 10 and 12

sometimes 14 hours a day. I work hard all day long. I was honestly

scared of what would happen if I had problems at work. I spend a lot

of time high up on ladders and scaffolding. Not a good place to get

dizzy. But you must understand, that your senses will not be less at

that time, but sharper and clearer. Fasting does not harm your

ability to make decisions. Every morning I stopped on the way to work

and picked up a bottle of fresh squeezed orange juice, and put it in

my cooler. If I became dizzy or felt weird (which happened) I just

drank the juice. I actually had more energy and focus then I have

now.

As far as transitioning to raw, I have read a lot about the subject,

and I think what you are doing is perfect. As far as being addicted

to cooked food; we don't get over addictions. We learn to cope with

them. I know I have a monster sleeping inside me. As long as I eat

only raw foods. And get support from you guys. He will sleep

comfortably and leave me alone. But if my tongue touches something

cooked, he might wake up and take control of my body and soul.

As far as having vegetables that you don't like. That will change.

Going raw is the biggest change you will ever go through in your

life. You will fall in love with the oddest fruits and vegetables. I

remember I fell in love with a weed and ran around like a nut trying

to get my friends to just taste it. It tastes like crap to me now but

I guess it was something I needed at the time.

Doug

rawfood , " Viveca Park " <vivecapark@a...> wrote:

> I have just recently started the Natural Hygeine way of eating.

> I have been a vegetarian for over 23 years, but have eaten dairy.

> Now, I'm off dairy with the exception of a little butter (for

> now). I have eaten only fruit before noon and then try to eat a

> salad twice a day along with steamed vegetables. I have also

> included nuts a few times a week.

>

> I believe that I've been discovering detox symptoms because I

> have had a bad headache a few days. Today I feel much better,

> but the day isn't over yet. Now I hear about cooked food

> addictions and going 100% raw. Wouldn't you say it would be

> perfectly o.k. to make this further transition for me a little

> more gradually since my body is already causing me so much

> discomfort?

>

> I have heard that eating the salad with lemon or with no dressing

> is best. However, I find it harder each day to eat my salad. I

> am buying organic mixed greens or other organic salad mix, and I

> find myself forcing myself to eat a small one. I look forward to

> the grounding feeling of my cooked vegetables, but I don't feel

> over compelled to eat as I did in the past. Although I hear what

> you are saying about food addiction, I feel myself enjoying the

> foods but I don't feel like I'm living to eat anymore like I did

> in the past. I actually feel like I have kicked my addiction.

>

> So I guess I'm asking a question to get validation for me moving

> slowly toward more (if not 100%) raw diet, and also some

> suggestions on how to do this. Although I am a vegetarian, I

> must admit there are quite a few vegetables that I do not like.

> From what I hear about fasting, that is supposed to clear the

> palate and help one learn to like more vegetables. But also

> from what I hear from the Natural Hygeine lectures from past

> conferences, that unless you do the fast under supervised

> conditions, you may cause more harm than good.

>

> Since I have gradually moved to where I am now, I feel like

> having all juice days and all fruit days and all raw days would

> be enough for me at least for the immediate future. I also heard

> that eating some rice or grains can help to eleviate some of the

> toxins thrown out into the bloodstream. Can anyone suggest any

> reading on or off line regarding the getting started stage?

>

> Hopefully, you will get the gist of what I am asking. Maybe some

> of you remember back when you first got started and what things

> helped you.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Viveca

> I am on digest version and don't mind anyone writing to me

> personally.

July 8, 2003

Hi,

This is Fred, Rose's other half. I have just joined this group a few days ago.

I do not articulate as well as Rose does so my words will be fewer.

I am not happy with the word addiction. The term give the reader a hopless

state of being a prisoner. Rose was smoking 4-5 packs of cigarettes a day in

1978 when we met a block away from Barnes and Noble in Manhattan. That night or

the following day, she threw away her pack of cigarettes and stopped smoking.

There was no withdrawal affects. So much for the term addiction.

If we find one person whose symptoms invalidates the definition, then the

definition is invalid not the person.

Fred

SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

July 8, 2003

I'm reading Rational Fasting by Arnold Ehret right now...you might

want to check it out.

Bridgitte

July 8, 2003

bridgitte,

that is a very good book. i loved his mucusless healing diet system too.

At 02:22 PM 7/8/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>

> I'm reading Rational Fasting by Arnold Ehret right now...you might

> want to check it out.

>

> Bridgitte

>

July 8, 2003

>

> I am not happy with the word addiction. The term give the reader a

hopless state of being a prisoner.

I read Victoria Boutenko's " 12 Steps to Raw Food " , and she found that

if she approached cooked food as an addiction (thus the 12 steps)

people were more successful at staying raw. I look at it as more of

a possibility than the truth, and following the steps certainly

helped get me to go raw in the first place. I think that it *can*

give the impression of being a prisoner, but that's why the word

addiction keeps coming up in posts.

Bridgitte

July 9, 2003

Hi Fred; welcome to the club.

In your post you said " If we find one person whose symptoms

invalidates the definition, then the definition is invalid not the

person. " I was taught in high school that in nature there is an

exception to every rule. It does not invalidate the rule, it only

shows that there are exceptions.

The reason I am doing this is that we have a failure rate among would

be raw foodists, not only out there in the world, but right here in

this club of about 98%. This is virtually the same rate as people

trying to get off alcohol and drugs on their own, without help. When

people go through a 12 step program. For alcohol, drugs, or cooked

food, the success rate dramatically increases to near 100%.

When a person admits to addiction it is a liberating experience.

Suddenly you have a list of things to do, to find your way out of it.

12 things. Quite the opposite of the " hopless state of being a

prisoner. " That you mention. I love being raw, soon I will have been

raw for 4 years. When I went raw I had skin cancer, prostrate

problems, I had arthritis so bad I had to sleep sitting up in a

chair. Now I am healthier than I was when I was a child. I want

everyone to feel the way I do. I don't want people to die young of

needless diseases. This is a proven method to increase the success

rate of raw foodist. If we can increase the success rate we can save

more lives.

If you say you are not addicted, that's fine with me. I'm not saying

that anyone is addicted. What I'm saying is that cooked food contains

nearly 2000 chemicals that have been proven in laboratory experiments

to be addictive. It is possible that we might be addicted. This is

something you have to discover in yourself. I only know that I am.

Doug

rawfood , fred lieberman <fred_lieberman>

wrote:

> Hi,

>

> This is Fred, Rose's other half. I have just joined this group a

few days ago. I do not articulate as well as Rose does so my words

will be fewer.

>

> I am not happy with the word addiction. The term give the reader a

hopless state of being a prisoner. Rose was smoking 4-5 packs of

cigarettes a day in 1978 when we met a block away from Barnes and

Noble in Manhattan. That night or the following day, she threw away

her pack of cigarettes and stopped smoking. There was no withdrawal

affects. So much for the term addiction.

>

> If we find one person whose symptoms invalidates the definition,

then the definition is invalid not the person.

>

> Fred

>

> SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

>

July 9, 2003

Doug & Fred,

I ask myself at what point does a habit become an addiction?

There are stacks of addictions easy to kick and there are a few

that are the devil.

The drop out rate of raw foodism is astonishing to me. Occasionally

I see a raw foodist on TV and the vitality from them is highly

reinforcing.

I sometimes speculate upon the effect of altering the communication

level in this forum. By somehow adding in the messenger facility

to some degree with or without webcams and so forth. Of course such

notions are risky. Why tamper with something that is working? It may

have been tried before and abandoned. It could last a bit or be a

roaring success. Are we experimental and moving with the times?

Personally I enjoyed the format of the old CompuServe forums where there

was a library and typed messages could flip back and forth and so too

the

voice. I also use the messenger all the time for my friends and

relatives.

Should this question have been addressed to Orionsdad?

Peter

kauguy [no_reply ]

09 July 2003 06:03

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: raw vs 80/90% raw