Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 rawfood , " mavalkyrie " <mavalkyrie> wrote: > Pete in all honesty it isn't your message as much as your delivery. I'm simply stating the facts in a direct way. I do not sugar coat things. What I am saying counters your beleif system and that is why you feel the need to lash out at me personally and be so defensive (by taking the offensive). << Had you freely given information and allowed people to dissagree with > you (or make up their own mind based on the info)>> I freely gave all info. MAny people disagreed using arguments which I countered with simple logic ad facts. That is called debate. << without jumping > down their throats,>> I think you are confusing me with YOU. Your posts have been personal and inflammed. I am just presenting facts and real life experiences and observations. YOu are obviouly irritated and angry. I am not. << you probably would still be on those boards. >> The ONLY reason why I was banned was because those were vegan boards and I was posting my non-vegan experience of regaining my health after being vegan for 3 years (which destroyed my health.) People accosted me for being " anti-vegan " , " animal abuser " , etc when I was simply telling my story and how closely it mirrors MANY other people's expereinces. > Don't blame everyone else in the world, take some responsibility for > your actions.>> I take 100% responsibility for listening to people who act like they know it all and not listening to my inner Voice sooner. I was in denail and not paying attention to what was really going on. << You say the same thing over and over, and as soon as > someone disagrees, you start calling names, and putting them down.>> I never call people names. It is you who get personal and nasty and angry. > Say what you believe, but allow others their belief,>> and just agree > to disagree. >> Because sometimes its not about beleif. Its about FACTS and real life expereinces. Its about the reasons why people beleive things and sometimes those reasons are flawed in logic or easily proven to be untrue. Debate is used to get to the truth. ITs healthy unless you start taking it personally or being personally offensive. I am simply arguing facts and ideas. YOu seem to be arguing with me with all your personal comments and irrational irritation and anger. <<If you are right, and you might be for a small number of > people, your life and your practices and your beliefs will stand on > their own.>> They do! THat is why I am telling my and other people's similar expereinces with eating animal products and getting over the damage they incurred due to raw veganism. Those stories speak for themselves! (unless they are ignored or censored) > Can you and I agree to just disagree and go on? The ball is in your > court.>> It is you who INSISTS that I am wrong when I am speaking from real life experience. Like YOU said ...my experiences and the experiences of others speak for themselves! You cannot disagree with real life experiences. PETE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 rawfood , " Peter Gardiner " <petergardiner@e...> wrote: > Brian, > > The gloom and doom text about long term raw foodism seemed misplaced to > me. This is not about raw foodism! ITs about raw veganism. I still eat a 100% raw diet and am doing great on it. I'm amazed at how healthy I became after learing how to eat a diet with all the nutrients I need for OPTIMUM health. > Nothing much great or intellectual about that!>> Nothing great anout restoring my ruined health? Nothing intellectual about discussing the health problem trends that many raw vegans have experienced and later got over like I did? Pete > > > Brian Powell [brianmpowell@e...] > 17 September 2003 00:35 > rawfood > RE: [Raw Food] Re: all meat or all raw > > > > Peter the Great has spoken. All kneel before his hallowed intellect! > > > > Brian Powell > > allGoode Organics > > 215-242-1133 - office > > 215-313-6927 - cell > > brian@a... > > > > > Peter Gardiner [petergardiner@e...] > Tuesday, September 16, 2003 6:00 PM > rawfood > RE: [Raw Food] Re: all meat or all raw > > > > Who hired you to come wading in here with naïve observation? > > Peter > > > alreadyherenow [no_reply ] > 16 September 2003 22:48 > rawfood > [Raw Food] Re: all meat or all raw > > > > rawfood , " Elisabeth Braun " > <elisabeth.braun@n...> wrote: > > Pete, > > > > I don't know as much about it as I intend to find out but these things > > > I do know for sure: > > > > -Vegans and even vegetarians have far lower incidence of the vast > > majority of degenerative diseases, diabetes, cancers, digestive > > disorders and so on. > > Those studies are about cooked diets. Cooked meat and pasterurized > milk have chemicals and altered molecules that are horrible for > health. > > > -The point I made about B12 was about LIFE VEGANS ie, kids raised > > vegan from birth. They are very healthy with fewer childhood helth > > problems. Monte was right about the adult B12 issue - no-one can > be > > sure but it would appear that, if kids raised vegan have no > trouble, > > there must be some inate human ability to form it in the gut. > > Did you see the 3 generations raw vegan study ar www.Dr.bass.com? > THose children developed b12 deficiecies. Sometime it takes > generations for deficiencies to show. > > > > -I can't help but feel that if we had a real need for animal products, > > > (and I mean *normal* need, not a bodily disfunction that means our > > bodies are unable to formulate certain AAs etc - most > can), > > then there would be no life vegans, life vegetarians or even long- > > term vegans, but there are! > > You are not understanding my point. Just because some people can do > alright on a vegan diet does not mean everyone can! People's bodies > are highly variable in the efficiencies in which they can manufacture > non-essential nutrients like DHA , EPA, taurine, cholesterol, etc. > The FACT is that many people like me developed serious deficiencies > even though we ate the exact same diets as other vegans. > > Also, most long term vegans supplement. Dr. Grahman had to take b12 > shots for instance. > > Vegetarians? Sure! That is what I am . > > > > no vegan personalities as they wouldn't dare show their faces in > > connection with the diet. They'd all be either too weak and sickly to > > > get out of bed in the morning. >> > > Did you read when I said that some vegans seem to do alright? You are > polarizing your views. > > << Plus, most of this list would be > > dead too! If we need animal foods as a normal need,>> > > SOME people do. SOME people have got really damaged on a vegan diet > and their health has been restored by adding animal products. This is > a FACT. Its a DEFINITE trend. Some people cannot synthesize enough > DHA, EPA, taurine, cholesterol, etc. Besides me, I personally know of > several and they ate very carefully planned vegan diets but still > developed deficiencies. Later their health was vastly improved by > adding some animal products. I know a guy in California that runs an > organic fruit farm and was a raw vegan for over 20 years. He ate the > best freshest food yet still developed deficiencies and is no longer > vegan but doing much better now. > The fact is that we have never been vegan as far as any evidence > suggests. Its no mystery why taking away nutrients that have been in > our diets for thousands of years may cause some people to develop > health problems. > > Pete > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 rawfood , alreadyherenow <no_reply> wrote: > rawfood , " mavalkyrie " <mavalkyrie> > > > It is you who INSISTS that I am wrong when I am speaking from real > life experience. Like YOU said ...my experiences and the experiences > of others speak for themselves! You cannot disagree with real life > experiences. > Pete, Point taken. However, the majority of the people on this board's real life experiences are that they are very happy and healthy on the raw vegan diet. Does that mean they always will be? Who knows. You weren't, so you modified your diet. But that does't necessitate telling people that they're going to end up ill eating this way. Lots of people don't get sick. In the event that any of us do, we certainly know who to turn to for advice. In the meantime, keep in mind that the raw journey is exactly that, a journey, and what works for some doesn't work for others. Bridgitte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Brigitte wrote, > > Point taken. However, the majority of the people on this board's > real life experiences are that they are very happy and healthy on the > raw vegan diet. That is great like I have said many times. If the diet works for you, then great! Keep eating it!. But I am just curious, how many long term 100% raw vegans are here? I was raw vegan for 3 years. Many people have no shown problems till years on the diet. << Does that mean they always will be? Who knows. You > weren't, so you modified your diet. But that does't necessitate > telling people that they're going to end up ill eating this way.>> WOA! Where I have EVER done that? That is something you have just made up. I have said many times that som people seem top do alright on a vegan diet. > Lots of people don't get sick.>> Yes, but Lots of long termraw vegans DO get sick. And then there are all those people who are so brainwashed they claim they are not ill when they clearly are.....I see LOTS of raw vegans going around with multiple chemical sensitivities, and an inabilty to process fats and they claim they are healthy with these weakened systems.They claim those are good signs! I (like others) had these " signs of health " that progressed so bad I couldn't function or eat anything without problems. <<In the event that any of us do, we > certainly know who to turn to for advice. In the meantime, keep in > mind that the raw journey is exactly that, a journey, and what works > for some doesn't work for others.>> That is my point! Most raw vegnas I have envountered truly beleive that the raw vegan diet is the best for everyone and is our natural diet and is the key to health. These people beleive that since it does NOT work for some so many people, then that could only mean they did not do it right! The fact is that there are a very significant amount of raw vegans who ate the diet correctly but have developed the same types of health problems. This cannot be suppressed or censored. I was severely ostracized in the raw vegan community after changing from 3 years raw vegan to raw vegetarian. People don't want to know about long term raw vegans who " did everything right " got sick and then got better my adding a % of animal products. People need to know the possible risks that others have expereinced. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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