Guest guest Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 Good points, Rufus. Anger certainly is reduced with the raw diet. Those green leaves destroy anger. I think they reduce fear as well. I am a bit short on fear and anger, and tolerance is absolute. After all if the Almighty had been handing out the balance of hormones differently at the moment of my birth, then I too could have been destined for ridicule by the moral majority. Getting my own thoughts and life in order is my preoccupation. I do not mind sharing my thoughts but to expect agreement of others to understand all that I have read and experienced and to shift their deep rooted convictions on my poverty stricken utterances would be naïve. I have a feeling that there is a lot more mileage in many of the topics we have touched on over the past month. Peter Rufus Shaw [rufus10_99] 19 October 2003 18:05 rawfood RE: [Raw Food] Re: Ewald's book Roger, Very well said. I think that during the past month or so we have had some great debates. I very much enjoyed our germ debate, as well as the back-and-forth about mucoid plaque. We have had some intelligent new people join and the level of information exchange has increased. I was worried that this forum might become noting more then a recipe exchange. Thanks to everyone, I am always eager to read the latests posts. Also, someone once told me that behind all anger is fear. At first this didn't make sense to me, but after a lot of work I now understand the concept, and am relieved of anger. I would recommend anyone who is angry to explore this concept. It is truly a Raw concept. Cooked food has an impact on all aspects of our being. Thanks Rufus --- Roger Haeske <roger wrote: > > Roger, could you please do something about these > posts, I try to just > delete > what I don't like to read, but am finding it very > hard to ignore > messages > like this which make me so angry that I'm now > shaking with fury, rather > than > reading messages about raw foods and related issues. > I do not wish to > exasibate the problem by replying, please help out. > Love Shell. > [RH] > Hi Shell, > > Try to not to react to a message you disagree with. > I see messages every > day that I don't agree with but if I get angry I > only hurt myself. We > could use a little more acceptance and tolerance of > differing > viewpoints. > > As for moderating her post, I don't think it is > necessary at this time. > I actually agree with some of what she said but not completely either. > > If people have the desire to be gay then I say let > them do it. They are > adults and have free will. They aren't hurting > anyone by their actions. > But it may not be a very healthy choice. I think one > of the reasons we > have so many people who are gay may have to do with > the poor health of > their parents. > > I suspect that if all parents were living according > to the laws of > nature that there would be much fewer people who > turn out to be gay. I > don't think we se so many gay animals out in nature > as we have gay > humans. A poor diet can interfere with the hormone's > and the sex > orientation. I'm not dogmatic on this point it's > just my theory. > > Personally, I believe sex is more than for just > procreation. Some people > have very conservative religious views and that is > ok. As long as we > don't spend all of our time pushing these theories > down each others > throats. Also the main thrust of this board is > health via a Vegan Raw > Food Diet and not religion or morality per se. But > sometimes those paths > seem to cross. > > I would say that we wouldn't want to see continuous > posts along these > lines. That certainly would be overkill. > > Thanks, Roger > > > > > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Personally, I don't like " debate " . Debate is adversarial and, as a result, not friendly. Discussion and open exchange of ideas is constructive, helpful, and friendly. Perhaps you may consider it is not your job to help anyone widen their views - it is their choice to widen their views or not. It is more rightly any person's place to express their own views in an open manner, with the intent to offer your current beliefs and opinions. I learn a lot from people who share their information, but I skip argumentative posts or " debating " posts as the energy on it is far too negative and often hurtful. Carolyn " Isn't it a good thing to debate? What should I do if I disagree with someone in the future? Or actually believe I have something that could help another person that I disagree with to widen their views? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I agree there are many schools of thought and differing viewpoints. I agree that we won't all agree on things. My personal belief is what I said before: debate is adversarial (having or involving antagonistic parties) - one side is trying to " win " , be " right " , or sway the other side. In open discussion, two or more parties can have differing beliefs and share those beliefs without having the intent of wanting to change the other's mind or win. When hearing new information people can and often do change their minds regarding t heir former beliefs. However, no one needed to debate or argue to convince them. The old saying, " When the student is ready, the teacher will be there " (I'm sure I'm paraphrasing) applies here. When you're ready to hear and accept new information, you will. When you are not ready, you won't and no amount of debate will change that. I love new information and I loving the sharing of information in open, friendly discussion. I learn so much. Carolyn What if someone disagrees? I mean kind of like this very post. I'm basically questioning you. I don't want to split hairs or get caught up in semantics but debating or discussing (but not necisarily argreeing) doesn't have to get unfriendly at all. There are many many schools of thought in the field of raw foods and raw eating there are going to be opposing views. Many times when presenting opposing views people rethink things and reconsider. This can lead to changing your view and learning or maybe helping someone else see things differently and also reaffirming your views. We can't be expected to walk on egg shells and at the same time I hope to form relationships here where we can openly discuss things and feel free to say what we'd like and have the other people know me well enough to know I'm not fighting but just disagreeing at the same time open to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Just to be clear: I am not offended or even slightly upset. I wanted to say this to set the tone for this message...I'm in a good mood and appreciate your response. ------------ (funny, feels like a disclaimer or something) What if someone disagrees? I mean kind of like this very post. I'm basically questioning you. I don't want to split hairs or get caught up in semantics but debating or discussing (but not necisarily argreeing) doesn't have to get unfriendly at all. There are many many schools of thought in the field of raw foods and raw eating there are going to be opposing views. Many times when presenting opposing views people rethink things and reconsider. This can lead to changing your view and learning or maybe helping someone else see things differently and also reaffirming your views. We can't be expected to walk on egg shells and at the same time I hope to form relationships here where we can openly discuss things and feel free to say what we'd like and have the other people know me well enough to know I'm not fighting but just disagreeing at the same time open to change. On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 12:49:16PM -0500, tncnavarra wrote: > > > > Personally, I don't like " debate " . Debate is adversarial and, as a result, > not friendly. Discussion and open exchange of ideas is constructive, > helpful, and friendly. Perhaps you may consider it is not your job to help anyone > widen their views - it is their choice to widen their views or not. It is > more rightly any person's place to express their own views in an open manner, > with the intent to offer your current beliefs and opinions. I learn a lot from > people who share their information, but I skip argumentative posts or > " debating " posts as the energy on it is far too negative and often hurtful. > > Carolyn > > > " Isn't it a good thing to debate? What should I do if I disagree with > someone in the future? > Or actually believe I have something that could help another person that I > disagree with to widen their views? " > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Very well put Carolyn. The need to prove one's point is contradictory to mutual expression and exchange. rawfood , tncnavarra@a... wrote: > > > Personally, I don't like " debate " . Debate is adversarial and, as a result, > not friendly. Discussion and open exchange of ideas is constructive, > helpful, and friendly. Perhaps you may consider it is not your job to help anyone > widen their views - it is their choice to widen their views or not. It is > more rightly any person's place to express their own views in an open manner, > with the intent to offer your current beliefs and opinions. I learn a lot from > people who share their information, but I skip argumentative posts or > " debating " posts as the energy on it is far too negative and often hurtful. > > Carolyn > > > " Isn't it a good thing to debate? What should I do if I disagree with > someone in the future? > Or actually believe I have something that could help another person that I > disagree with to widen their views? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Sometimes people don't merely need to prove a point, but sincerely want to show someone something different. If we never challenged each other we would never develop strong convictions on what we believe. Try to consider that debating or what ever you want to call engaging in arguments by discussing opposing points is a tool in learning. Maybe a few people here don't want to ever have their beliefs challenged. I'm not one of them and am under the impression that those type make up the minority of this group. I have and will continue to keep engaging in arguments by discussing opposing points unless I get an overwhelming response by this group as a whole to not ever publicly disagree with anyone. If that was the case. I'd respect the majority's wishes and probably just limit my posts to asking questions and never opposing anyone. I can't imaging life if we all did this? how would people learn new things? I think we'd all be missing out if we ever get into this type of state On Dec 20, 2004, at 5:28 PM, Derrick wrote: > > > Very well put Carolyn. The need to prove one's point is contradictory > to mutual expression and exchange. rawfood , > tncnavarra@a... wrote: >> >> >> Personally, I don't like " debate " . Debate is adversarial and, as > a result, >> not friendly. Discussion and open exchange of ideas is > constructive, >> helpful, and friendly. Perhaps you may consider it is not your > job to help anyone >> widen their views - it is their choice to widen their views or > not. It is >> more rightly any person's place to express their own views in an > open manner, >> with the intent to offer your current beliefs and opinions. I > learn a lot from >> people who share their information, but I skip argumentative posts > or >> " debating " posts as the energy on it is far too negative and often > hurtful. >> >> Carolyn >> >> >> " Isn't it a good thing to debate? What should I do if I disagree > with >> someone in the future? >> Or actually believe I have something that could help another > person that I >> disagree with to widen their views? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 This is wise advice: " skip argumentative or debating posts " . I apologize to the group for responding to this gentleman on the public board. If someone is looking for " debate " responding to their messages is providing the reaction they're seeking. It won't happen again. rawfood , tncnavarra@a... wrote: > > > Personally, I don't like " debate " . Debate is adversarial and, as a result, > not friendly. Discussion and open exchange of ideas is constructive, > helpful, and friendly. Perhaps you may consider it is not your job to help anyone > widen their views - it is their choice to widen their views or not. It is > more rightly any person's place to express their own views in an open manner, > with the intent to offer your current beliefs and opinions. I learn a lot from > people who share their information, but I skip argumentative posts or > " debating " posts as the energy on it is far too negative and often hurtful. > > Carolyn > > > " Isn't it a good thing to debate? What should I do if I disagree with > someone in the future? > Or actually believe I have something that could help another person that I > disagree with to widen their views? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 enough already You've already told us twice that you are blocking his mails now you are telling us you shouldn't argue with him because that is what he wants. So what? Let him argue if that is what he chooses, some of the points he made are valid and I for one apprciate some of the links that where posted on both sides. This is a public forum. Please, if you have anything more to vent, please direct it at the person you're upset with and not to a public forum. rawfood , sunflowersupreme <no_reply> wrote: > > This is wise advice: " skip argumentative or debating posts " . I > apologize to the group for responding to this gentleman on the public > board. If someone is looking for " debate " responding to their > messages is providing the reaction they're seeking. It won't happen > again. > > rawfood , tncnavarra@a... wrote: > > > > > > Personally, I don't like " debate " . Debate is adversarial and, as > a result, > > not friendly. Discussion and open exchange of ideas is > constructive, > > helpful, and friendly. Perhaps you may consider it is not your > job to help anyone > > widen their views - it is their choice to widen their views or > not. It is > > more rightly any person's place to express their own views in an > open manner, > > with the intent to offer your current beliefs and opinions. I > learn a lot from > > people who share their information, but I skip argumentative posts > or > > " debating " posts as the energy on it is far too negative and often > hurtful. > > > > Carolyn > > > > > > " Isn't it a good thing to debate? What should I do if I disagree > with > > someone in the future? > > Or actually believe I have something that could help another > person that I > > disagree with to widen their views? " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 That really IS what it's all about, and it's a waste of positive energy " for me " . Thanks for the timely reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 well I guess we will have to agree to disagree On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 08:29:13PM -0500, tncnavarra wrote: > > > I agree there are many schools of thought and differing viewpoints. I agree > that we won't all agree on things. My personal belief is what I said > before: debate is adversarial (having or involving antagonistic parties) - one > side is trying to " win " , be " right " , or sway the other side. In open > discussion, two or more parties can have differing beliefs and share those beliefs > without having the intent of wanting to change the other's mind or win. When > hearing new information people can and often do change their minds regarding t > heir former beliefs. However, no one needed to debate or argue to convince > them. The old saying, " When the student is ready, the teacher will be there " > (I'm sure I'm paraphrasing) applies here. When you're ready to hear and accept > new information, you will. When you are not ready, you won't and no amount > of debate will change that. > > I love new information and I loving the sharing of information in open, > friendly discussion. I learn so much. > > Carolyn > > > What if someone disagrees? I mean kind of like this very post. I'm > basically > questioning you. I don't want to split hairs or get caught up in semantics > but debating or discussing (but not necisarily argreeing) doesn't have > to get unfriendly at all. > > There are many many schools of thought in the field of raw foods and raw > eating there are going to be opposing views. Many times when presenting > opposing views people rethink things and reconsider. This can lead to > changing your view and learning or maybe helping someone else see things > differently and also reaffirming your views. > > We can't be expected to walk on egg shells and at the same time I hope to > form relationships here where we can openly discuss things and feel > free to say what we'd like and have the other people know me well enough > to know I'm not fighting but just disagreeing at the same time open to > change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Why not just " take what you want and leave the rest? " I'm learning to " live and let live " and it is so much easier than fighting with everybody who disagrees with me. Most of the world disagrees with me! But I'm the only one who has to suffer the consequences of my thinking and actions. Ron rawfood , johnd <john@j...> wrote: > well I guess we will have to agree to disagree > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 08:29:13PM -0500, tncnavarra@a... wrote: > > > > > > I agree there are many schools of thought and differing viewpoints. I agree > > that we won't all agree on things. My personal belief is what I said > > before: debate is adversarial (having or involving antagonistic parties) - one > > side is trying to " win " , be " right " , or sway the other side. In open > > discussion, two or more parties can have differing beliefs and share those beliefs > > without having the intent of wanting to change the other's mind or win. When > > hearing new information people can and often do change their minds regarding t > > heir former beliefs. However, no one needed to debate or argue to convince > > them. The old saying, " When the student is ready, the teacher will be there " > > (I'm sure I'm paraphrasing) applies here. When you're ready to hear and accept > > new information, you will. When you are not ready, you won't and no amount > > of debate will change that. > > > > I love new information and I loving the sharing of information in open, > > friendly discussion. I learn so much. > > > > Carolyn > > > > > > What if someone disagrees? I mean kind of like this very post. I'm > > basically > > questioning you. I don't want to split hairs or get caught up in semantics > > but debating or discussing (but not necisarily argreeing) doesn't have > > to get unfriendly at all. > > > > There are many many schools of thought in the field of raw foods and raw > > eating there are going to be opposing views. Many times when presenting > > opposing views people rethink things and reconsider. This can lead to > > changing your view and learning or maybe helping someone else see things > > differently and also reaffirming your views. > > > > We can't be expected to walk on egg shells and at the same time I hope to > > form relationships here where we can openly discuss things and feel > > free to say what we'd like and have the other people know me well enough > > to know I'm not fighting but just disagreeing at the same time open to > > change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 To settle the matter about the nature of this forum once and for all...please read the group description (especially the part about no name-calling): rawfood/ Stop cooking your foods! Increasing the RAW FOOD in your diet can greatly improve your health! Food ENZYMES are important to your health. Let's share info, tips, sources, url's, recipes and personal experiences with eating more RAW FOOD. This group is here to support people wanting to learn how to eat a Healthy Raw Food Diet. Just because something is raw doesn't necessarily mean it is the best thing for us. This group supports a Vegan Raw Food Diet. Please don't come here trying to promote other diets. This is a friendly group of people. " We welcome debate, " [my emphasis] but " do it without name calling and anger in the posts. " [my emphasis] Negative posts and posters will be banned. You are also welcome to share your experiences with NATURAL HYGIENE. Animals in the wild live according to their instinct and the laws of nature. They live their lives without getting cancer, heart disease, stroke and the other diseases of so-called " civilization. " No animal in the wild takes supplements. They just eat the foods they are biologically adapted to. Natural Hygiene is a study of nature and of health. So come and share your experiences of nature in action. We can also discuss the writings of authors in the raw food movement including Dr. Herbert Shelton, Dr. Douglas Graham, David Wolfe, Dr. Gabriel Cousens and so on. NEW MEMBERS PLEASE NOTE: Your initial posts will be moderated so please wait for your message to go up. Also please try to trim your posts on all replys to the group. You should be receiving a file on that. It is in the files section of the group. --- tncnavarra wrote: > I agree there are many schools of thought and > differing viewpoints. I agree > that we won't all agree on things. My personal > belief is what I said > before: debate is adversarial (having or involving > antagonistic parties) - one > side is trying to " win " , be " right " , or sway the > other side. > Carolyn > > > What if someone disagrees? I mean kind of like this > very post. I'm > basically > questioning you. I don't want to split hairs or get > caught up in semantics > but debating or discussing (but not necisarily > argreeing) doesn't have > to get unfriendly at all. ===== [...there'll be love and laughter, and peace ever after, just you wait and see... ---Vera Lynn] All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Thanks for the gentle reminder, Tev! Peace, Valerie tev treowlufu <coac2002 wrote: To settle the matter about the nature of this forum once and for all...please read the group description (especially the part about no name-calling): rawfood/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 rawfood , tev treowlufu <coac2002> wrote: > > To settle the matter about the nature of this forum > once and for all...please read the group description Hello Tev, Perhaps you misunderstood me. I never said the forum didn't allow any type of debate. I said I personally prefer discussion over debate as debate is adversarial and discussion doesn't have to be. I further clarified my personal feelings after John asked how people can express differing viewpoints without debate. I believe all viewpoints can be discussed and there is plenty of room for disagreement while expressing different viewpoints without trying to win a debate or be right. That is all I tried to express: my personal viewpoint. I have also avoided adding anymore to this topic, but I wanted to clarify that I was not speaking for the forum, but for myself. Carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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