Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I typed " Enzymes Frozen Food " into www.google.com and found a good articles at http://www.healthrecipes.com/enzymes.htm. It helps in the understanding of enzymes. RawSeattle , " Stan Hanek " <ssstan@p...> wrote: > I was wondering if anyone has any reference material on recent scientific research relating to live food enzymes. It struck me recently that everything I've heard relative to the subject has been more or less hearsay, and I hope to read up on it for myself. > > I'm particularly interested in understanding (from an objective standpoint) what happens to food enzymes when raw food is refrigerated for a day or two, as well as whether all enzymes are destroyed, as I suspect they are, when raw food is frozen. My hunch is that refrigerated food is also rendered lifeless in a matter of hours. > > Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 RawSeattle , " theveganking " <ron.koenig@v...> wrote: > I typed " Enzymes Frozen Food " into www.google.com and found a good > articles at http://www.healthrecipes.com/enzymes.htm. It helps in > the understanding of enzymes. Also at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_HE384 I found the following: " Enzymes in fruits and vegetables are slowed down, but not destroyed during freezing. If not inactivated, these enzymes can cause color and flavor changes as well as loss of nutrients. " I would suspect that if enzymes are only slowed down by freezing, that refrigerating would not destroy enzymes. > > RawSeattle , " Stan Hanek " <ssstan@p...> wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone has any reference material on recent > scientific research relating to live food enzymes. It struck me > recently that everything I've heard relative to the subject has been > more or less hearsay, and I hope to read up on it for myself. > > > > I'm particularly interested in understanding (from an objective > standpoint) what happens to food enzymes when raw food is > refrigerated for a day or two, as well as whether all enzymes are > destroyed, as I suspect they are, when raw food is frozen. My hunch > is that refrigerated food is also rendered lifeless in a matter of > hours. > > > > Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 But if that's true, what of all the talk concerning the need to consume fresh juices within 20-30 minutes so that the enzymes are still alive? I've heard this from several independent sources. They add that if refrigerating the juice you should use jars filled absolutely to the top to prevent air pockets which are said to kill these enzymes. Most everything we refrigerate will have air in the container. Is juice somehow different than solids? RawSeattle , " theveganking " <ron.koenig@v...> wrote: > RawSeattle , " theveganking " <ron.koenig@v...> > wrote: > > I typed " Enzymes Frozen Food " into www.google.com and found a good > > articles at http://www.healthrecipes.com/enzymes.htm. It helps in > > the understanding of enzymes. > > Also at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_HE384 I found the following: > " Enzymes in fruits and vegetables are slowed down, but not destroyed > during freezing. If not inactivated, these enzymes can cause color > and flavor changes as well as loss of nutrients. " > > I would suspect that if enzymes are only slowed down by freezing, > that refrigerating would not destroy enzymes. > > > > RawSeattle , " Stan Hanek " <ssstan@p...> wrote: > > > I was wondering if anyone has any reference material on recent > > scientific research relating to live food enzymes. It struck me > > recently that everything I've heard relative to the subject has > been > > more or less hearsay, and I hope to read up on it for myself. > > > > > > I'm particularly interested in understanding (from an objective > > standpoint) what happens to food enzymes when raw food is > > refrigerated for a day or two, as well as whether all enzymes are > > destroyed, as I suspect they are, when raw food is frozen. My > hunch > > is that refrigerated food is also rendered lifeless in a matter of > > hours. > > > > > > Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 The article you referred me to had this to say: "Enzymes are also destroyed by exposure to air, exposure to light, alcohol consumption, temperatures over 118 degrees, caffeine, cigarette smoke, and prescription drugs". Sounds like refrigerating raw food destroys the enzymes in short order, but freezing may not destroy the enzymes depending upon how long it takes to freeze it. - theveganking RawSeattle Tuesday, March 04, 2003 7:24 PM [RawSeattle] Re: Enzymes I typed "Enzymes Frozen Food" into www.google.com and found a good articles at http://www.healthrecipes.com/enzymes.htm It helps in the understanding of enzymes.RawSeattle , "Stan Hanek" <ssstan@p...> wrote:> I was wondering if anyone has any reference material on recent scientific research relating to live food enzymes. It struck me recently that everything I've heard relative to the subject has been more or less hearsay, and I hope to read up on it for myself.> > I'm particularly interested in understanding (from an objective standpoint) what happens to food enzymes when raw food is refrigerated for a day or two, as well as whether all enzymes are destroyed, as I suspect they are, when raw food is frozen. My hunch is that refrigerated food is also rendered lifeless in a matter of hours.> > Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I would say, yes, juice is different from solids because the food has been refined. What you say about juice makes sense, but it would not apply to solid food. All refined foods need to have some kind of preservative in them (natural or chemical) to extend the shelf life. I'm not the definitive answer though, I hope someone with more expertise can weigh in and give a more scientific explanation about this. RawSeattle , " haneks " <ssstan@p...> wrote: > But if that's true, what of all the talk concerning the need to > consume fresh juices within 20-30 minutes so that the enzymes are > still alive? I've heard this from several independent sources. They > add that if refrigerating the juice you should use jars filled > absolutely to the top to prevent air pockets which are said to kill > these enzymes. Most everything we refrigerate will have air in the > container. Is juice somehow different than solids? > > RawSeattle , " theveganking " <ron.koenig@v...> > wrote: > > RawSeattle , " theveganking " <ron.koenig@v...> > > wrote: > > > I typed " Enzymes Frozen Food " into www.google.com and found a > good > > > articles at http://www.healthrecipes.com/enzymes.htm. It helps > in > > > the understanding of enzymes. > > > > Also at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_HE384 I found the following: > > " Enzymes in fruits and vegetables are slowed down, but not > destroyed > > during freezing. If not inactivated, these enzymes can cause color > > and flavor changes as well as loss of nutrients. " > > > > I would suspect that if enzymes are only slowed down by freezing, > > that refrigerating would not destroy enzymes. > > > > > > RawSeattle , " Stan Hanek " <ssstan@p...> > wrote: > > > > I was wondering if anyone has any reference material on recent > > > scientific research relating to live food enzymes. It struck me > > > recently that everything I've heard relative to the subject has > > been > > > more or less hearsay, and I hope to read up on it for myself. > > > > > > > > I'm particularly interested in understanding (from an objective > > > standpoint) what happens to food enzymes when raw food is > > > refrigerated for a day or two, as well as whether all enzymes are > > > destroyed, as I suspect they are, when raw food is frozen. My > > hunch > > > is that refrigerated food is also rendered lifeless in a matter > of > > > hours. > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Also, like dehydration, frozen foods are a good " transition " food or for special occasions. If it helps keep people raw, then great! Neither are ideal foods for the human diet, but both may help us to keep on the raw diet. Jeff > >Also at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_HE384 I found the following: > " Enzymes in fruits and vegetables are slowed down, but not destroyed >during freezing. If not inactivated, these enzymes can cause color >and flavor changes as well as loss of nutrients. " > >I would suspect that if enzymes are only slowed down by freezing, >that refrigerating would not destroy enzymes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I'm sure most of the problem with deteriorating quality of juices has to do with oxidation. Not only may enzymes be lost, but vitamins, etc. Jeff >But if that's true, what of all the talk concerning the need to >consume fresh juices within 20-30 minutes so that the enzymes are >still alive? I've heard this from several independent sources. They >add that if refrigerating the juice you should use jars filled >absolutely to the top to prevent air pockets which are said to kill >these enzymes. Most everything we refrigerate will have air in the >container. Is juice somehow different than solids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Hi there! I wonder if you can tell me about enzymes. I've read all about them in the raw literature etc, but I was wondering how they could be so vital for digestion given the fact that, as biological catalysts, enzymes are not used up in the reactions they catalyse and that they are specific, ie one enzyme works on one reaction. I'm really curious to know more about this and esp if there is any scientific evidence that they do as many raw writers say. I say 'scientific evidence' as the things that enzyme were creditted with in the last book I read, (Diane Olive's 'Think before you eat'), were really all just the results of a nutritious and clean intake and there was nothing really 'solid' in what she said on the enzyme front. Some people get irked when I talk about things like this and even accuse me of being 'anti-raw'. Please don't!=) I do think the raw diet is right, I'm just not 100% convinced that the role of enzymes is as many believe and there are others who feel the same way, I know. Yours with an enquiring and open mind, Elisabeth=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I checked out the first few posts on this website last night to see how it got its start and I noticed it begins with a discussion of enzymes. rawfood , " Elisabeth Braun " <elisabeth.braun@n...> wrote: > Some people get irked when I talk about things like this and even > accuse me of being 'anti-raw'. Please don't!=) I do think the raw > diet is right, I'm just not 100% convinced that the role of enzymes > is as many believe and there are others who feel the same way, I know. > > Yours with an enquiring and open mind, > > Elisabeth=) Irked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 hey i found this little scientific blurb. might not be exactly what you're looking for, but they show how enzymes work in biological processes. http://www.examstutor.com/biology/resources/studyroom/biochemistry_and_cells/enz\ ymes/ considering that boiling and cookin gfoods to the consistency of a wet pasty noodle would kill enzymes (just like too much heat would kill any living thing), put those two together & that might be the answer you're looking for. Megan Milligan yasminduran Desert Rose Musings (http://www.desertrosemusings.com) (some parts under construction) Cal Neva Animal Rescue (http://www.desertrosemusings.com/calnevarescue/index.htm) (under construction) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Perhaps the below, written by Michael Klein, Roxanne's (of raw restaurant fame) husband, will answer some of your questions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Enzymes are the catalysts of every chemical reaction in our bodies. Without them, there can be no cellular division, immune system functioning, energy production nor brain activity. No vitamins or hormones can do their work without enzymes. There are two different types of enzymes in our bodies, metabolic enzymes and digestive enzymes. We produce over 100,000 different enzymes, each doing a unique task. Interestingly, every food contains exactly the perfect mix of digestive enzymes to break it down completely. These are called food enzymes. Nature in its never-ending perfection sees that all food, whether flesh, fruit or vegetable, decomposes and returns to the earth from which it came. But cooking our food above 118 degrees destroys its enzymes, leaving our bodies to generate the enzymes necessary to digest it. There are two main problems with this enzyme destruction. First, our bodies cannot produce enzymes in the perfect mix to metabolize our food as completely as the food enzymes nature creates. This results in partially digested fats, proteins and starches that will clog up our body's intestinal tract and arteries. The Eskimos are a remarkable example of this. Eskimo means, " one who eats raw. " While living for centuries on a diet that consisted primarily of whale or seal blubber, Eskimos developed no arterial sclerosis. They had almost no heart disease or stroke, and no high blood pressure. Established nutritional doctrine would predict a high incidence of these ailments, but even raw blubber will digest itself completely if it is not cooked and its enzymes are not destroyed. But once you heat even the finest olive oil above 118 degrees, you will not be able to digest it completely. It will clog you up. More importantly, it has been demonstrated that our bodies produce a finite lifetime supply of enzymes. Every cooked meal we eat causes enzyme production that draws on our finite reserve. A living food meal does not cause this drain. This can help us understand why an 85-year-old has only 1/30 the enzyme activity level of an 18-year-old. Aging is really nothing more than running out of enzymes. Cells stop dividing, our immune system fails to handle challenges it managed easily when we were younger. Our enzyme reserve is depleted over a lifetime of eating cooked food. In 1930, Dr. Paul Kouchakoff found that when we eat cooked food, our bodies attack it with leukocytes, the white blood cells that are the cornerstone of our immune system. These cells bring enzymes to the cooked food in an attempt to break it down and get rid of it. Our bodies actually treat cooked food as a foreign invader. No leukocytes are produced when living food is eaten. It is a tremendous burden on our body to produce digestive enzymes and leukocytes. It takes ten metabolic enzymes to make one digestive enzyme. The pancreas of humans and our domesticated animals is twice the size as a percentage of body weight, as mammals in nature. This is a direct result of the overwork we place on it to create digestive enzymes. It's no wonder we feel so tired after eating a cooked meal. We actually burn close to half of the calories we consume in a cooked meal just to digest it! In nature, all mammals live eight to ten times their maturation age. Humans, and our domesticated pets and farm animals that eat cooked, processed food only live four times our maturation age. In the famous Pottinger cat study, it was demonstrated that cooked food diets result in shorter life spans, congenital abnormalities and eventually, loss of reproductive capability. In lab experiments, mice fed a living food diet live fifty percent longer than mice fed cooked food. It is amazing to see how all animals in nature maximize their enzyme reserve. If you give a squirrel a raw nut, it will not eat it, but always will bury it. It will only dig it up when the nut has sprouted. They have found sensors in squirrels' noses that can identify a sprouted nut. Raw, unsprouted nuts have enzyme inhibitors that prevent the nuts' food enzymes from digesting it. Only when it sprouts are these inhibitors deactivated. When our bodies eat the living foods they were meant to, our entire bio-terrain operates in optimal health. All of our cells, organs and systems are able to do the jobs they are capable of in perfect balance. A healthy bio-terrain requires proper enzyme capacity, acid- base balance and a healthy digestive tract. These can be achieved through a living foods diet. With a healthy bio-terrain, our bodies manage all health challenges quite effectively. This is why we rarely see disease in mammals living in nature. It is what we put into our bodies that prevent them from doing what they are capable of. Cooked food destroys our bio-terrain. Living foods support a healthy bio-terrain. rawfood , " Elisabeth Braun " <elisabeth.braun@n...> wrote: > > I wonder if you can tell me about enzymes. I've read all about them > in the raw literature etc, but I was wondering how they could be so > vital for digestion given the fact that, as biological catalysts, > enzymes are not used up in the reactions they catalyse and that they > are specific, ie one enzyme works on one reaction. I'm really > curious to know more about this and esp if there is any scientific > evidence that they do as many raw writers say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 rawfood , " Megan Milligan " <yasminduran@c...> wrote: > considering that boiling and cookin gfoods to the consistency of a wet pasty noodle would kill enzymes (just like too much heat would kill any living thing), put those two together & that might be the answer you're looking for. Thanks Megan. I have no doubt that enzymes are denatured by heat, it's just that I do doubt that fruit and veg enzymes are needed by humans to digest food and other things like these. It's really been knowing the basics of how enzymes function that has led me to question this line of thought in the raw book.=) Hugs, Elisabeth=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 rawfood , cloudriver wrote: Thanks for the info.=) Sorry, I didn't get your name.... > enzymes. We produce over 100,000 different enzymes, each doing a > unique task. This is something that gets me. As he says, enzymes are specific and the enzymes in fruit etc are specific too. They are there to ripen and then decompose the fruit if it is not eaten by an obliging animal. Enzyme specificity casts doubt on the idea of fruit enzymes digesting food for us. There's a difference between human digestion and decomposition in nature.=) > if it is not cooked and its enzymes are not destroyed. But once you > heat even the finest olive oil above 118 degrees, you will not be > able to digest it completely. It will clog you up. This could just as easily be attributed to other biochemical changes that take place in oils and other foods and not to enzymes. > More importantly, it has been demonstrated that our bodies produce a > finite lifetime supply of enzymes. Every cooked meal we eat causes > enzyme production that draws on our finite reserve. A living food > meal does not cause this drain. Has it been demonstrated? How? By whom? Where's the scientific documentation of this? There are high level scientists that rubbush the very suggestion, so it can't be common knowledge. Also, an enzyme by its very definition is *not* changed or used up in the reaction it catalyses. That's basic biology and chemistry class stuff. All the rest of the stuff he attributes to enzymes could also well be just the result of other things such as clean intake, high nutrient levels and the biochemistry of the food not having been changed by heat. If anyone knows any deeper stuff, I'd be interested! It's absolutely *not* that I reject the raw diet, which some people tend to assume when one questions the enzyme theory, it's just that I haven't seen anything convincing on this one. It seems to me that the raw diet is getting bad press and not being given the respect it deserves because some of the popular beliefs are not quite sound. That's such a shame.=( Well, goodnight for today! Elisabeth=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Elizabeth, you should read book by Hovell " Enzyme nutrition " . Alex Elisabeth Braun wrote: >--- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 rawfood , alex <telecom@i...> wrote: > Elizabeth, > you should read book by Hovell " Enzyme nutrition " . > Alex Hi Alex! Yes, I've heard of but not read that one. The only hesitation I have is, is it not his theory that everyone else is using and that doesn't really add up? I know where to find one of his articles on-line and I'll have a good read of that. Thus far though, no-one has been able to answer this question at all!=( Thanks! Elisabeth=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Alex, I think you may mean Howell re Enzyme Nutrition. I have read articles about the futile notion that eating plant enzymes will do nothing for human health. Then I read of killer whales eating seals and simply letting them decompose on their own enzymes before digesting them. Somewhat blurred to me. Peter rawfood , alex <telecom@i...> wrote: > Elizabeth, > you should read book by Hovell " Enzyme nutrition " . > Alex Hi Alex! Yes, I've heard of but not read that one. The only hesitation I have is, is it not his theory that everyone else is using and that doesn't really add up? I know where to find one of his articles on-line and I'll have a good read of that. Thus far though, no-one has been able to answer this question at all!=( Thanks! Elisabeth=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 rawfood , " Peter Gardiner " <petergardiner@e...> wrote: > do nothing for human health. Then I read of killer whales eating seals and > simply letting them decompose on their own enzymes before digesting them. > > Somewhat blurred to me. Yeah! Interesting though is that we don't let things decompose, we wouldn't touch them in that state. I wonder.... Hugs, Elisabeth=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 It works to me! Alex Elisabeth Braun wrote: >rawfood , alex <telecom@i...> wrote: > > >>Elizabeth, >>you should read book by Hovell " Enzyme nutrition " . >>Alex >> >> > >Hi Alex! > >Yes, I've heard of but not read that one. The only hesitation I have >is, is it not his theory that everyone else is using and that doesn't >really add up? I know where to find one of his articles on-line and >I'll have a good read of that. Thus far though, no-one has been able >to answer this question at all!=( > >Thanks! > >Elisabeth=) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 This concept works great, for me , anyway. All the food I eat is fermented, even raw eggs. Alex Peter Gardiner wrote: >Alex, > >I think you may mean Howell re Enzyme Nutrition. > >I have read articles about the futile notion that eating plant enzymes will >do nothing for human health. Then I read of killer whales eating seals and >simply letting them decompose on their own enzymes before digesting them. > >Somewhat blurred to me. > >Peter > > >rawfood , alex <telecom@i...> wrote: > > >>Elizabeth, >>you should read book by Hovell " Enzyme nutrition " . >>Alex >> >> > >Hi Alex! > >Yes, I've heard of but not read that one. The only hesitation I have >is, is it not his theory that everyone else is using and that doesn't >really add up? I know where to find one of his articles on-line and >I'll have a good read of that. Thus far though, no-one has been able >to answer this question at all!=( > >Thanks! > >Elisabeth=) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Elizabeth Do not imagine that decomposition does not go on in the gut! Peter rawfood , " Peter Gardiner " <petergardiner@e...> wrote: > do nothing for human health. Then I read of killer whales eating seals and > simply letting them decompose on their own enzymes before digesting them. > > Somewhat blurred to me. Yeah! Interesting though is that we don't let things decompose, we wouldn't touch them in that state. I wonder.... Hugs, Elisabeth=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 rawfood , alex <telecom@i...> wrote: > It works to me! Not for me though - it contrdicts what I know about enzyme properties and activities.=( Well, the truth will come out in time, I guess! Thanks! Elisabeth=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 rawfood , " Peter Gardiner " <petergardiner@e...> wrote: > Elizabeth > > Do not imagine that decomposition does not go on in the gut! Yeah, of course it does, but it's not the same type as a piece of fruit going off in your kitchen! It's a breakdown of a totally different type! E=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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