Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Could someone please put into words the rebuttal for the argument: There is a direct cause and effect to our ancestors eating red meat and the development of our brain. Archeologist/scientists can site dramatic brain development coinciding with the consumption of meat. My brother-in-law (and family) are sure I am depriving my child of fundamental nutrients essential to brain development. As I seem to be losing my memory/concentration after 25 years of vegetarianism, I am having difficulty wondering if he may not be correct. I also remember answering this question myself, for myself a while back, but can’t find the answers now, or remember how I justified it then. (It is different research when you look to answer your own questions v. research to explain to and convince loved ones you are not damaging someone they love!) Doug Graham said something along the lines of an increased caloric intake of fruits ~ not the protein from meats ~ that sparked the brain development during that time, however it was never sited where he got that information and I have seen numerous documentaries, articles etc stating protein consumption from animal meat that caused the spark in brain development. It all goes back to making choices for me and being wrong are one thing but making choices for my daughter with her best interest at heart, and finding out later that I was wrong and deprived her of something essential for her development. I don’t mind standing tall and strong, if I am convinced it is the correct cause. Thanks for helping me to have more confidence in continuing my daughter on the path of no red meat!! We have numerous family events, and when I have difficulty articulating my reasons to abstain from meat for myself and my daughter I am not able to educate my family ~ if for nothing more than to have them back off! BEV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 This is simple: Dead flesh in the body has no positive results. Dead flesh will cause disease in the body. Dead flesh is dead flesh. Red meat the other white meat, poultry or fish. All Dead Flesh. What is the difference between eating a dead corpse of a man and the dead corpse of a cow? When cows are taken away from their families the family of cows cry and mourn their loved ones. If you don't believe this just watch the cows when a cow is being driven away, from the fields. Imagine what state the cow must be in when it reaches the slaughter house. What do you think this will do to anyone that eats dead cow flesh? If there are any other questions please go to the site of Peta. Not eating meat may be the best thing you could do for your health, the environment, and your karma. Abundant Health, Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hello Bev… While they may think they have some scientific proof of this it’s just words on paper. The proof is in the pudding when you look at vegetarians, vegans and raw vegans. No, we don’t have “all “the answers but we do know that we are much better off without the red meat. This is why the Andressohns http://www.rawfriends.com/andressohns.html are having the battle of a lifetime in Florida. I would look to Gabriel Cousins for scientific evidence and then I would look at Storm and Jinee http://www.thegardendiet.com/children/ for the actual step by step process. Much success! Steven Gibb www.rawfriends.com Beverly Coose [mermaidcharter] Sunday, January 30, 2005 4:29 PM eliquent help Could someone please put into words the rebuttal for the argument: There is a direct cause and effect to our ancestors eating red meat and the development of our brain. Archeologist/scientists can site dramatic brain development coinciding with the consumption of meat. My brother-in-law (and family) are sure I am depriving my child of fundamental nutrients essential to brain development. As I seem to be losing my memory/concentration after 25 years of vegetarianism, I am having difficulty wondering if he may not be correct. I also remember answering this question myself, for myself a while back, but can’t find the answers now, or remember how I justified it then. (It is different research when you look to answer your own questions v. research to explain to and convince loved ones you are not damaging someone they love!) Doug Graham said something along the lines of an increased caloric intake of fruits ~ not the protein from meats ~ that sparked the brain development during that time, however it was never sited where he got that information and I have seen numerous documentaries, articles etc stating protein consumption from animal meat that caused the spark in brain development. It all goes back to making choices for me and being wrong are one thing but making choices for my daughter with her best interest at heart, and finding out later that I was wrong and deprived her of something essential for her development. I don’t mind standing tall and strong, if I am convinced it is the correct cause. Thanks for helping me to have more confidence in continuing my daughter on the path of no red meat!! We have numerous family events, and when I have difficulty articulating my reasons to abstain from meat for myself and my daughter I am not able to educate my family ~ if for nothing more than to have them back off! BEV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I don't have time to go long, but the basic answer is that of our physiological design. We do not have the body of a carnivore, we have one of a fruitivore - just like the gorilla. Our teeth, stomach, intestines, saliva, our hands..... are all made to digest fruits and vegetables - NOT MEAT. If we were meant to eat meat God would have designed us to eat meat in our natural state - just like all the other carnivores. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't see me running up to a cow and tackling it and being able to bite into its flesh and start eating it! We need tools to do that - thus, not a natural thing. Nancy Nancy Parlette Natural Health Counselor Nutrition Educator (410) 531-2410 pnparlette Beverly Coose [mermaidcharter] Sunday, January 30, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: eliquent help Could someone please put into words the rebuttal for the argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Thank you Steven. BEV Steven [rawfasting] Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:19 PM RE: eliquent help Hello Bev… While they may think they have some scientific proof of this it’s just words on paper. The proof is in the pudding when you look at vegetarians, vegans and raw vegans. No, we don’t have “all “the answers but we do know that we are much better off without the red meat. This is why the Andressohns http://www.rawfriends.com/andressohns.html are having the battle of a lifetime in Florida. I would look to Gabriel Cousins for scientific evidence and then I would look at Storm and Jinee http://www.thegardendiet.com/children/ for the actual step by step process. Much success! Steven Gibb www.rawfriends.com Beverly Coose [mermaidcharter] Sunday, January 30, 2005 4:29 PM eliquent help Could someone please put into words the rebuttal for the argument: There is a direct cause and effect to our ancestors eating red meat and the development of our brain. Archeologist/scientists can site dramatic brain development coinciding with the consumption of meat. My brother-in-law (and family) are sure I am depriving my child of fundamental nutrients essential to brain development. As I seem to be losing my memory/concentration after 25 years of vegetarianism, I am having difficulty wondering if he may not be correct. I also remember answering this question myself, for myself a while back, but can’t find the answers now, or remember how I justified it then. (It is different research when you look to answer your own questions v. research to explain to and convince loved ones you are not damaging someone they love!) Doug Graham said something along the lines of an increased caloric intake of fruits ~ not the protein from meats ~ that sparked the brain development during that time, however it was never sited where he got that information and I have seen numerous documentaries, articles etc stating protein consumption from animal meat that caused the spark in brain development. It all goes back to making choices for me and being wrong are one thing but making choices for my daughter with her best interest at heart, and finding out later that I was wrong and deprived her of something essential for her development. I don’t mind standing tall and strong, if I am convinced it is the correct cause. Thanks for helping me to have more confidence in continuing my daughter on the path of no red meat!! We have numerous family events, and when I have difficulty articulating my reasons to abstain from meat for myself and my daughter I am not able to educate my family ~ if for nothing more than to have them back off! BEV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 My pleasure Bev.. BLESSINGS!! Beverly Coose [mermaidcharter] Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:44 PM RE: eliquent help Thank you Steven. BEV Steven [rawfasting] Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:19 PM RE: eliquent help Hello Bev… While they may think they have some scientific proof of this it’s just words on paper. The proof is in the pudding when you look at vegetarians, vegans and raw vegans. No, we don’t have “all “the answers but we do know that we are much better off without the red meat. This is why the Andressohns http://www.rawfriends.com/andressohns.html are having the battle of a lifetime in Florida. I would look to Gabriel Cousins for scientific evidence and then I would look at Storm and Jinee http://www.thegardendiet.com/children/ for the actual step by step process. Much success! Steven Gibb www.rawfriends.com Beverly Coose [mermaidcharter] Sunday, January 30, 2005 4:29 PM eliquent help Could someone please put into words the rebuttal for the argument: There is a direct cause and effect to our ancestors eating red meat and the development of our brain. Archeologist/scientists can site dramatic brain development coinciding with the consumption of meat. My brother-in-law (and family) are sure I am depriving my child of fundamental nutrients essential to brain development. As I seem to be losing my memory/concentration after 25 years of vegetarianism, I am having difficulty wondering if he may not be correct. I also remember answering this question myself, for myself a while back, but can’t find the answers now, or remember how I justified it then. (It is different research when you look to answer your own questions v. research to explain to and convince loved ones you are not damaging someone they love!) Doug Graham said something along the lines of an increased caloric intake of fruits ~ not the protein from meats ~ that sparked the brain development during that time, however it was never sited where he got that information and I have seen numerous documentaries, articles etc stating protein consumption from animal meat that caused the spark in brain development. It all goes back to making choices for me and being wrong are one thing but making choices for my daughter with her best interest at heart, and finding out later that I was wrong and deprived her of something essential for her development. I don’t mind standing tall and strong, if I am convinced it is the correct cause. Thanks for helping me to have more confidence in continuing my daughter on the path of no red meat!! We have numerous family events, and when I have difficulty articulating my reasons to abstain from meat for myself and my daughter I am not able to educate my family ~ if for nothing more than to have them back off! BEV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Nancy and Lynda ~ 100% total agreement here! It REALLY is simple/natural and makes sense! However, does that mean we don’t need an explanation for the increase in BRAIN development coinciding with meat consumption of our ancestors?? My problem is answering my families concern that I am depriving my child of brain growth. That is the point they keep coming back to family event after family event ~ Why the spark in brain growth with the consumption of meat? What happens after years of evolving from meat eaters that we are not getting the meat now. I acknowledge in the time we have walked the earth, meat consumption has been only a minute fraction of our diet, but bodies evolve based on nutrients provided. (Don’t get me wrong ~ I am and continue to be vegetarian, I live by the thoughts you two expressed, I am merely trying to find answers to the question posed by people who love my daughter and are concerned for her well being and development!) I guess the answer I WANT to find is, Fruits/vegetables provide the nutritional needs for the brain to develop as if it were getting meat. (And without the hazards of disease from the meat!) I’m looking for Documented/Scientific evidence that I’m on a safe course with my child’s health. We have acknowledged/addressed the B12 deficiency in long term vegans that most use supplements to counter act. If fruits and vegetables provide all we need for nervous system/brain development, why then is this such an issue in our circle? Should we need to supplement if we are eating as nature intended ~ as our bodies are designed for? Or have we evolved in such a way, granted due to an abundance of choices that we came across UNNATURALLY that we can no longer thrive optimally on what nature intended for us. (And again, I’m not arguing to eat meat ~ I would puke first!! But I am trying to figure out a possible nutritional deficiency after long term commitments!) BEV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Is it the meat that gives brain growth or the protein? Maybe we just need to make sure our kids get plenty of high protein fruits and vegetables. I know I wasn't getting enough so I've made sure I eat more sprouted garbanzo beans, peas, sugar snap or snow peas and other sprouts for plenty of protein. I don't know of any documentation/studies to refer you to. N Nancy Parlette Natural Health Counselor Nutrition Educator (410) 531-2410 pnparlette Beverly Coose [mermaidcharter] Monday, January 31, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: RE: eliquent help Nancy and Lynda ~ 100% total agreement here! It REALLY is simple/natural and makes sense! However, does that mean we don’t need an explanation for the increase in BRAIN development coinciding with meat consumption of our ancestors?? My problem is answering my families concern that I am depriving my child of brain growth. That is the point they keep coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Thanks again Nancy! BEV pnparlette [pnparlette] Monday, January 31, 2005 9:06 AM RE: eliquent help - · Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Also, children need fats and oils for brain development and nervous system development. Avocados are GREAT! Mash very ripe bananas and avocados together with a fork for a sweet treat! HelenaBeverly Coose <mermaidcharter wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Yum! I’ll be doing that for myself, as well!! Thanks! BEV helena [satvicvegan] Monday, January 31, 2005 3:27 PM RE: eliquent help Also, children need fats and oils for brain development and nervous system development. Avocados are GREAT! Mash very ripe bananas and avocados together with a fork for a sweet treat! Helena Beverly Coose <mermaidcharter wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 can a pregnant woman take wheatgrass and or spirlina? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 When we spend a lot of time attempting to convince others of our belief, which is the truth for us we may miss out on time that can be spent enjoying our life and making a difference. Sometimes we get caught up in discussions about health and substitute that for making fundemental changes in our health/life. The results are not the same. Most people who smoke cigarettes are aware it is harmful without me or the surgeon general saying so, although we may put forth effort at forgetting the consequences. I have met a number of people who are much, more knowledgeable of the benefits of raw food than me who are not raw foodist or even vegetarian. People change from a shift in consciousness not because they lost a debate. That energy used to convince others can be used to examine my own life and were I may benefit from different choices or using the info I'm giving others and be a living example myself. peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Mark said: "People change from a shift in consciousness not because they lost a debate." Well said! At the same time, the information does need to be out there so that when the time is right the people will be able to find it. N. Nancy Parlette Natural Health Counselor Nutrition Educator (410) 531-2410 pnparlette blakenson [blakenson] Monday, January 31, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: Re: eliquent helpWhen we spend a lot of time attempting to convince others of our belief, which is the truth for us we may miss out on time that can be spent enjoying our life and making a difference. Sometimes we get caught up in discussions about health and substitute that for making fundemental changes in our health/life. The results are not the same. Most people who smoke cigarettes are aware it is harmful without me or the surgeon general saying so, although we may put forth effort at forgetting the consequences. I have met a number of people who are much, more knowledgeable of the benefits of raw food than me who are not raw foodist or even vegetarian. People change from a shift in consciousness not because they lost a debate. That energy used to convince others can be used to examine my own life and were I may benefit from different choices or using the info I'm giving others and be a living example myself.peace,Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 What if it finds us when the time is right. to reverse an old saying I'll see it when I believe it. peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I wouldn’t suggest either for these reasons. WG is a medicinal herb. Even thought it’s full of vitamins and minerals (especially when grown with www.oceangrown.com) it’s still pulling toxins from your body into your bloodstream. I don’t think you want toxins floating around your system when you’re pregnant. Spirulina, for the most part, is too big to permeate the cell wall and therefore not much benefit. Add to this the fact that it attracts heavy metals and you may be placing those poising into your body. I’m not sure what your objective is but if you’re in search of a whole food supplement I would suggest PINES Barley Grass along with Dulse and Kelp (once again from the proper source) to enhance the body. Kelp even helps your body assimilate the nutrients from the foods you eat. Make sure to get blood work and also ask for the MMA (Methyl Malonic Acid) test to measure your B12. Hope this helps Steven www.rawfriends.com haydenbeatty07 [haydenbeatty07] Monday, January 31, 2005 10:20 PM Re: eliquent help can a pregnant woman take wheatgrass and or spirlina? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Thanks so much to Mark, Rezz and Nancy again! Mark, I always appreciate what you have to say. I do believe that if I " believe it, I will see it! " And yes, I could probably best teach my family by being a living example myself. I need to remember I have a perfect, well developed, high energy daughter who doesn't seem to be deprived of anything for her growth. Also, maybe memory loss is a by-product of our times, not necessarily because I have deleted meat from my diet for so many years~ almost all my friends complain of memory/concentration problems like they have never had before (and they ALL eat meat.) I know that when I am 100% or close to it raw, I have MUCH MORE clarity and see things they would never see when consuming their SAD. So why do I let doubt or fear enter into my life? Rezz, no offense taken to the suggestion of my family doing some homework! They have let the mass media determine their diet and way of thinking for ages. I couldn't believe I had to justify not giving my 4 year old child hot chocolate on a cold winter day with them. (Which she didn't even want anyway!) I guess I just need to remember they are on a different page and I knew that marrying into the family. And it is probably the same mass media, medical world and our scientific community which causes me to doubt what I feel I know instinctually. Your perspective helped a lot! Lynda ~ your words about the animals and what they experience and what that does to the food consumed within the body, and the Karma, have stuck with me. Years ago, it was 3 hours of a PETA booth, set up beside a booth I was manning, that led me to go " cold turkey " vegetarian. You are right! How can it be OK or needed!! Thanks again to everyone for all the input ~ this is truly why I stay connected to , you often help me over humps that I could turn into mountains without my raw perspective from you!! Elaine, congratulations on your fast! Though I did not fast, I feel I FINALLY made some changes to stick with! I have stepped away from my " perfectionism " and that it has to be 100% ~ all or nothing immediately and found more of a balance to move me continually towards more and more raw. Instead of inconsistent 60-90 minute workouts and sprits of 100% raw, I am doing REGULAR 30-50 minute workouts ~ feeling great instead of exhausted and I am better able to eat as my body needs it, naturally! I have finally found a balance, which right now for me does more to get me on the path than striving for 100% and beating myself up when I slip. I've struggled for a long time to find out that, surprisingly, small gradual changes will last longer with me! (Even though I truly enjoy and recognize the more immediate benefits of 100% raw ~ I never go a duration!) I remind myself that a 2% change every week = 100% change over a year. So by next January, I plan to be on a stable course of 100% raw (and of course, hopefully sooner, but I plan to stay focused on small gradual changes towards my goal!) So thanks again to all. Love and Light, BEV blakenson [blakenson] Monday, January 31, 2005 8:04 PM Re: eliquent help When we spend a lot of time attempting to convince others of our belief, which is the truth for us we may miss out on time that can be spent enjoying our life and making a difference. Sometimes we get caught up in discussions about health and substitute that for making fundemental changes in our health/life. The results are not the same. Most people who smoke cigarettes are aware it is harmful without me or the surgeon general saying so, although we may put forth effort at forgetting the consequences. I have met a number of people who are much, more knowledgeable of the benefits of raw food than me who are not raw foodist or even vegetarian. People change from a shift in consciousness not because they lost a debate. That energy used to convince others can be used to examine my own life and were I may benefit from different choices or using the info I'm giving others and be a living example myself. peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Almost any positive change in our diet or health will release toxins into our bloodstream including fasting and an all raw diet. Unless we are (very unlikely) already clean. The levelof intensity of cleansing depends on the individual and what they/and their baby when that's the case can tolerate. A womens cycle releases toxins in the blood, so toxins being released in the blood doesn't autmatically mean it's a no go. The condition of our eliminative organs may lag behind the level of toxicity in our bodies. Eating a raw food or more raw foods in our diet and eliminating as much as possible the toxins we put in allows the body a chance to repair at a pace more in line w/the condition of our eliminative organs. When I do an all water fast I do cleanse at a more intense level. This works when I'm not physically active. The juice fast doesn't mean I'm not fasting just at a slower pace and it allows me to continue working and excersising, and the digestive process is greatly decreased. I also have no deseases or critical conditions so a milder cleanse works well for me. Since I'm eliminating everyday I would think my body is healing. On my fast after two weeks and w/in a couple of hours of resolving some emotional and spiritual issues I became hungry and ate the next day. When I fasted before I continued and really was drained when I completed my fast. This time I stayed full of energy. I believe my body accomplished what it desired during this fast. Since resuming eating solid foods I have found juicing during the day and just one meal late in the afternoon leaves me satisfied, full of energy and still eliminating old toxins like I did on my fast. Lot's of things to consider including; body types, stored fat (which can house toxins), activity level, present conditions and so forth. When I was hypoglycemic I was unable to fast juice or water. I did make changes that allowed my body to heal and eventually the blood sugar imbalances were eliminated and fasting works for me now. I went into this fast to examine some personal issues in my life as opposed to a physical cleanse (although all connected). I do this routinely for a day or two when I have important decisions to make. There is no right way just ways. peace and blessings, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I'm very interested in this issue as well. My mother got me on this one once, and I'd love to have a good answer if the situation came up again. Neither of my children have ever even touched red meat and they are both very intelligent. So, the proof IS in the pudding ( and not the icky jello kind!). You know, there is an asp;ect of this brain evolution thing that doesn't get brought up so often which has nothing to do with food, but was discussed extensively in the physical anthropology class I took in college. It is tool making and use. Of course, this can become a chicken and the egg argument, but the fact is that we get smarter as we use our hands in a productive, creative manner. Rudolf Steiner, the founder of the Waldorf schools, utilized this in his indivations for the ducation of children. He suggested that children before puberty be doing more handwork. As a result, kids in Waldorf schools, or doing Waldorf-inspired homeschooling, are very intellectually skilled even though they spend much less time doing work on the 3 r's and more time painting, knitting and building things than their publically-schooled peers. Just some more food for thought (no pun intended!) Elise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I appreciate the change in direction of the question of raw vegan nutrition in children, to more intuitive and personal based responses. Bu to add Physicians Committe for Responsible Medicine is a group that does research based on western medicine that promotes a vegan diet. While not raw it could be useful to address concerns and provide information- pcrm.org is the web site and there is an article " Vegetarian Diets for Children: Right from the Start " that does address some protein and development issues. Thanks for all the group has and continues to offer Megan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Blessings Bev and Family, We all face this issue- and the Andersohns plight is so vibrant in us all as we make this commitment to truly serve in love, our body temple and our brothers and sisters. The SAD food today is depleted of virtually all nutrients, minerals. In my office, I am one of the few people whose children are not only in good health- but are excellent athletes. I don't mean to brag, but eliminating antibiotics, vaccines (they had some in their childhood but I have a notarized exemption and have had one for years) and implementing herbs and homeopathy/radionics into our lives has enabled us to live with relative simplicity in comparison to the majority of sick children that surround us. Red meat clogs arteries- Almonds and Sesame seeds don't and are of equal benefit. Those who live by the sword die by the sword. We don't need to consume the flesh of our relatives in order to survive and live a high and healthy life. Perhaps they will never understand- and its not for you to convince anyone. It is your right to live in truth. Be true to yourself and the message of love will shine thru you In Golden light, love, beauty and harmony pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.